Author Topic: If Miami Wins finals...  (Read 5832 times)

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Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2023, 11:29:36 PM »

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I think the NBA should already be concerned. Miami is showing that a coaching advantage and 3 pt. shooting can make up for deficiencies in not just individual defense but overall athleticism and skill diversity. Now with the new CBA restricting budgets, player development and coaching is going to be critical. This game basically was like a lot of games for the Heat. Keep it close, hit 3s, don't turn it over/make dumb fouls, and give the ball to Jimmy in the 4th quarter the same way you bring in a closer in baseball. It's like the Patriots, basically. They don't make mistakes, make the game slower paced with their physical defense and Brady/run plays controlling the ball, and out-execute down the stretch. Denver's comeback would have worked if they didn't make crucial mental mistakes like fouling 3 pt. shooters, giving up and 1s, and turning it over.

The problem is, basketball is not football and it's always marketed itself as a sport where talent and greatness triumphs. Yes, you need a good coach, but it's much more important to have 1 or 2 of the absolute best players in the league. Also, you have to assume the 3 pointer is part of the reason that home court doesn't seem to mean as much anymore and this is a threat to the legitimacy of the regular season. You've already got too many games and load management making it seem pointless, now you have an 8th seeded team that didn't even win the first play-in game in the Finals.

The rule was always that if you can't play individual defense at a respectable level, you can't survive in a playoff rotation. However, the Heat are proving a good TEAM defense and having shooters is good enough when anchored by two all-defense guys like Butler and Adebayo. The sobering thing is, we thought we were a 3 pt. shooting team!

The three pointer has certainly put more randomness into games.

More luck / unlucky element to today's games.

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2023, 11:35:57 PM »

Offline lbgreen33

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I think the NBA should already be concerned. Miami is showing that a coaching advantage and 3 pt. shooting can make up for deficiencies in not just individual defense but overall athleticism and skill diversity. Now with the new CBA restricting budgets, player development and coaching is going to be critical. This game basically was like a lot of games for the Heat. Keep it close, hit 3s, don't turn it over/make dumb fouls, and give the ball to Jimmy in the 4th quarter the same way you bring in a closer in baseball. It's like the Patriots, basically. They don't make mistakes, make the game slower paced with their physical defense and Brady/run plays controlling the ball, and out-execute down the stretch. Denver's comeback would have worked if they didn't make crucial mental mistakes like fouling 3 pt. shooters, giving up and 1s, and turning it over.

The problem is, basketball is not football and it's always marketed itself as a sport where talent and greatness triumphs. Yes, you need a good coach, but it's much more important to have 1 or 2 of the absolute best players in the league. Also, you have to assume the 3 pointer is part of the reason that home court doesn't seem to mean as much anymore and this is a threat to the legitimacy of the regular season. You've already got too many games and load management making it seem pointless, now you have an 8th seeded team that didn't even win the first play-in game in the Finals.

The rule was always that if you can't play individual defense at a respectable level, you can't survive in a playoff rotation. However, the Heat are proving a good TEAM defense and having shooters is good enough when anchored by two all-defense guys like Butler and Adebayo. The sobering thing is, we thought we were a 3 pt. shooting team!

The three pointer has certainly put more randomness into games.

More luck / unlucky element to today's games.
Ya, I loved the 3 ball when Bird was shooting it, that was a thing of beauty! I guess every GM knows how important the 3 ball is. Spoelstra is really good at making adjustments.
The Celtics were streaky with the 3, when it was falling they were tough to beat. The problem was Nothing was going in game 7, like literally nothing.

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2023, 11:49:03 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Jalen Brown just fell to pieces . He should be able to match Butlers score or he isn’t worth max money.

I knew we didn’t want to play the heat , for what ever reason , which I thought was mental , which now seems like several. Still they play better post season than reg . And that is what you are supposed to do….right?

Seems like Celtics aren’t the only team that gets worked over by Heat .

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2023, 11:58:13 PM »

Offline wiley

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Some of you guys are underselling the Heat.

So what they had a rough regular season...they've been a tough playoff team for a while now.

They play as a team and trust each other. That plus their mental toughness goes a long way...
Good coaching, limited mistakes. 

They have what the Celtics need, which is the ability to make the other team take it from them..in other words, not handing the game to the other team with mistakes.

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2023, 05:31:11 AM »

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I think the NBA should already be concerned. Miami is showing that a coaching advantage and 3 pt. shooting can make up for deficiencies in not just individual defense but overall athleticism and skill diversity. Now with the new CBA restricting budgets, player development and coaching is going to be critical. This game basically was like a lot of games for the Heat. Keep it close, hit 3s, don't turn it over/make dumb fouls, and give the ball to Jimmy in the 4th quarter the same way you bring in a closer in baseball. It's like the Patriots, basically. They don't make mistakes, make the game slower paced with their physical defense and Brady/run plays controlling the ball, and out-execute down the stretch. Denver's comeback would have worked if they didn't make crucial mental mistakes like fouling 3 pt. shooters, giving up and 1s, and turning it over.

The problem is, basketball is not football and it's always marketed itself as a sport where talent and greatness triumphs. Yes, you need a good coach, but it's much more important to have 1 or 2 of the absolute best players in the league. Also, you have to assume the 3 pointer is part of the reason that home court doesn't seem to mean as much anymore and this is a threat to the legitimacy of the regular season. You've already got too many games and load management making it seem pointless, now you have an 8th seeded team that didn't even win the first play-in game in the Finals.

The rule was always that if you can't play individual defense at a respectable level, you can't survive in a playoff rotation. However, the Heat are proving a good TEAM defense and having shooters is good enough when anchored by two all-defense guys like Butler and Adebayo. The sobering thing is, we thought we were a 3 pt. shooting team!

... What?
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2023, 06:25:07 AM »

Offline Birdman

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….they deserve it… beating Milwaukee, Boston & Denver
, being an 8th seed with no home court is awesome for them…& tired of hearing Butler name all the time cause the other players has step up plus what a great coaching job by Spolestra
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2023, 06:46:40 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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I actually find myself rooting for the heat in these finals.
The fact they stole game 2 and are the first team to win in Denver in these playoffs already makes me feel better about losing to them.
They’re a really good team who were the 1 seed last season and are playing great right now.

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2023, 07:18:59 AM »

Offline cman88

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If they win it does kind of take the air out of the "blow our team up!" Type narrative

They are shooting 50% from 3..while Jimmy basically hangs around and gets carried. It defies reality. But they did it against the Bucks, did it against the Celtics and did it last night against Denver.

It's hard to win when a team is shooting generationally good from 3pt land and you shoot average/below average

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2023, 07:19:21 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I hate the heat almost as bad a LA . 

But , I d have to admit ,  I d feel somewhat better about losing to them if they beat Nuggets for the title., then we are closer than it seemed by using the Heats normal avg. season record as the std.  to judge them by.  Still , it’s hard to figure all of a sudden a bunch of mostly avg.bench players are now ELITE offensive weapons. Or is Boston’s  defense suspect because lack of leadership and coaching …..echos in my mind.

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2023, 07:35:32 AM »

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Still , it’s hard to figure all of a sudden a bunch of bench players are now ELITE offensive weapons. Or is or defense suspect because lack of leadership and coaching .

They are pretty mediocre.

Gabe Vincent was a below average backup PG in terms of his offense. He is way below average as a ball-handler, driver, passer & playmaker. He is a below average scorer with below average shooting with below average efficiency. That is a well below average offensive player. Now, he is a very good defensive player and has been throughout his time in the NBA. That is how he stayed in the league. But he has never been up to much offensively. Even in the playoffs, you can see his numbers while better are all still below average.

Caleb Martin is a solid two way wing but average size for a SF which hurts them when they try to go small as too is Jimmy. They lack size at forward (and often at guard to make matters worse) which heaps pressure on Bam as defender and rebounder. That has caused them problems all season. And why C Martin was shifted to the bench in favour of K Love late in the season. Martin is a fine but unexceptional role player scorer who scored 13ppg on 57% TS% (slightly below average) on the season in 30mpg. He has caught fire in the playoffs at 68%. He lit up BOS and MIL while played solid againt NYK.

Kevin Love has struggled all season. Both in Miami and Cleveland. He is a below average backup PF. He lost his spot in CLE and only found one in Miami because they had no big men other than Bam.

Cody Zeller is a useful 3rd string center mopping up minutes as the main backup five. He is a liability in this role. He should have been on an NBA team earlier this year but he couldn't find a job anywhere. He is not that bad. He is a solid 3rd stringer but he is a weak main backup center which is where Miami is forced to use him due to their complete lack of bigs around Bam.

Duncan Robinson is a solid role player. He is a good offensive player with strong outside shooting and good movement. He is unfairly maligned defensively. He is more adequate than bad. I am happy to see him back in the rotation and doing well while Herro is out. I felt he was hard done by / wronged being left out. Good bench player. Serviceable starter (below average).

Kyle Lowry is an old guard. He struggles against speed but his bulky build and his smarts help him matchup against bigger guards well. He was a good matchup against us because all our guards are big slow combo guards who Lowry can defend. Brogdon is the only real scorer and he was hurt / terrible. That made life easier for Lowry. Lowry is still a solid offensive player. A streaky scorer who gives you steady passing and court presence. Solid defender so long as he isn't facing speed. DEN do not have speedy guards either. Nor did NYK. Or MIL. Come to think of it. His legs can't keep up with quick PGs anymore.

Max Strus is a solid player. I'd rate him as adequate defensively like D Robinson. Beefier and better able to handle physicality but slower afoot. Solid offensive player. Average shooter but he can handle the ball and pass reasonably well. Good 5th option. Below average starter. Probably average to a bit above average bench player. Fills a gap well despite being exceptional at nothing.

That is not a talented supporting cast.

That is not a well-rounded supporting cast. There is no big man help for Bam. There is no size at forward. There is size at guard (in part thanks to Herro's injury) but none in the frontcourt. They are exposed and vulnerable to teams that will attack them inside and on the boards. They can be destroyed on the boards. Bad rebounding team. Says a lot about our rebounding and nothing good.

Jimmy and Bam are high end players but their supporting cast sucks for a playoff team.

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2023, 07:36:31 AM »

Offline Stig

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Nope, we lost because we played badly, it’s even worse if the Heat wins finals, we could have blown this Heat team to pieces. I usually cheer the underdog, but I found this Heat team very hard to like.

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2023, 08:18:40 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Still , it’s hard to figure all of a sudden a bunch of bench players are now ELITE offensive weapons. Or is or defense suspect because lack of leadership and coaching .

They are pretty mediocre.

Gabe Vincent was a below average backup PG in terms of his offense. He is way below average as a ball-handler, driver, passer & playmaker. He is a below average scorer with below average shooting with below average efficiency. That is a well below average offensive player. Now, he is a very good defensive player and has been throughout his time in the NBA. That is how he stayed in the league. But he has never been up to much offensively. Even in the playoffs, you can see his numbers while better are all still below average.

Caleb Martin is a solid two way wing but average size for a SF which hurts them when they try to go small as too is Jimmy. They lack size at forward (and often at guard to make matters worse) which heaps pressure on Bam as defender and rebounder. That has caused them problems all season. And why C Martin was shifted to the bench in favour of K Love late in the season. Martin is a fine but unexceptional role player scorer who scored 13ppg on 57% TS% (slightly below average) on the season in 30mpg. He has caught fire in the playoffs at 68%. He lit up BOS and MIL while played solid againt NYK.

Kevin Love has struggled all season. Both in Miami and Cleveland. He is a below average backup PF. He lost his spot in CLE and only found one in Miami because they had no big men other than Bam.

Cody Zeller is a useful 3rd string center mopping up minutes as the main backup five. He is a liability in this role. He should have been on an NBA team earlier this year but he couldn't find a job anywhere. He is not that bad. He is a solid 3rd stringer but he is a weak main backup center which is where Miami is forced to use him due to their complete lack of bigs around Bam.

Duncan Robinson is a solid role player. He is a good offensive player with strong outside shooting and good movement. He is unfairly maligned defensively. He is more adequate than bad. I am happy to see him back in the rotation and doing well while Herro is out. I felt he was hard done by / wronged being left out. Good bench player. Serviceable starter (below average).

Kyle Lowry is an old guard. He struggles against speed but his bulky build and his smarts help him matchup against bigger guards well. He was a good matchup against us because all our guards are big slow combo guards who Lowry can defend. Brogdon is the only real scorer and he was hurt / terrible. That made life easier for Lowry. Lowry is still a solid offensive player. A streaky scorer who gives you steady passing and court presence. Solid defender so long as he isn't facing speed. DEN do not have speedy guards either. Nor did NYK. Or MIL. Come to think of it. His legs can't keep up with quick PGs anymore.

Max Strus is a solid player. I'd rate him as adequate defensively like D Robinson. Beefier and better able to handle physicality but slower afoot. Solid offensive player. Average shooter but he can handle the ball and pass reasonably well. Good 5th option. Below average starter. Probably average to a bit above average bench player. Fills a gap well despite being exceptional at nothing.

That is not a talented supporting cast.

That is not a well-rounded supporting cast. There is no big man help for Bam. There is no size at forward. There is size at guard (in part thanks to Herro's injury) but none in the frontcourt. They are exposed and vulnerable to teams that will attack them inside and on the boards. They can be destroyed on the boards. Bad rebounding team. Says a lot about our rebounding and nothing good.

Jimmy and Bam are high end players but their supporting cast sucks for a playoff team.
Would be one of, if not the least talented champions ever
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2023, 08:45:51 AM »

Offline footey

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I'm surprising myself by rooting for Miami in the finals.

My emotional rationale is that if they win, we are really much closer to a championship than if they lose, particularly if they were to lose badly.

Go Heat!

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2023, 09:50:28 AM »

Offline mef730

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They were one half away from losing in the play-in tournament, and now they're 3 games away from winning an NBA championship.

They remind me of the 2007 New York Giants.
I think they got hot at the right time. I also love Spoelstra as a head coach.

Yeah I like Spoelstra. I just hate Pat Riley and some of their players. Definitely hate their fanbase.

What fan base? Even at Miami home games, I feel like there were more Celtics fans.

Mike

Re: If Miami Wins finals...
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2023, 10:38:43 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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No, because we should've beaten them. What they do makes no impact on what we should've done.
Still don't believe in Joe.