Fixing games and the NBA

[Goldstar88]

Games are slanted, the home team gets more calls, the league obviously wants long series to make more money. However…the idea that the games are fixed and that the officials determine who advances is ridiculous. The best team always advances. The best team wins the championship each year.

First of all, you literally just admitted there that there's game rigging happening.

First of all, Slanting and rigging/fixing are two different things. Secondly, If something is fixed the outcome is predetermined. And thirdly….

They're literally the same in that they try to fix games in favour of certain teams.

Come on man.

Think about what you're saying for a second. If all home teams get helped by the league, that means it's not a fair game.

This is a percentages game. They don't need to rig 100% of games. If they righ 51%, they make a profit.

Stop with the tinfoil hat nonsense, we're trying to have a legit discussion here. I'm not calling you blind fool either.

I agree that the games are slanted, but by definition a “Fix” predetermines an outcome. The games are not fixed. The tinfoil hats are not nonsense.

[SparzWizard]

You didn't see the Bucks series? Giannis just mowing down our players and getting away with it.

Grant William breathing on Giannis? That's a foul. Marcus Smart absorbs a Giannis charge? That's a blocking foul or no call.

[Kiorrik]

Games are slanted, the home team gets more calls, the league obviously wants long series to make more money. However…the idea that the games are fixed and that the officials determine who advances is ridiculous. The best team always advances. The best team wins the championship each year.

First of all, you literally just admitted there that there's game rigging happening.

First of all, Slanting and rigging/fixing are two different things. Secondly, If something is fixed the outcome is predetermined. And thirdly….

They're literally the same in that they try to fix games in favour of certain teams.

Come on man.

Think about what you're saying for a second. If all home teams get helped by the league, that means it's not a fair game.

This is a percentages game. They don't need to rig 100% of games. If they rig 51%, they make a profit.

Stop with the tinfoil hat nonsense, we're trying to have a legit discussion here. I'm not calling you blind fool either.

I agree that the games are slanted, but by definition a “Fix” predetermines an outcome. The games are not fixed. The tinfoil hats are not nonsense.

K lemme try again because I spelling errorred and explained it poorly.

For betting purposes, they don't have to rig every single match. Or every single call. If they influence every game slightly here and there, they can predict outcomes on a percentage base. That's enough. I don't know how much you know about betting, but there's more than the win/loss column.

If tinfoil hat is fair, then it's also fair to say you're being ignorant. You know, in the interest of treating eachother as equals.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I haven't looked into stats, but the score differential in playoffs games has always seemed more variable than the regular season.

We seem to see a lot of blowouts, and a lot of very close games.  With a smaller margin of error the deeper teams get into the playoffs, I'd guess big games are often decided by a handful of possessions.  Kiorrik seems to be getting at this, too.

[Goldstar88]

Games are slanted, the home team gets more calls, the league obviously wants long series to make more money. However…the idea that the games are fixed and that the officials determine who advances is ridiculous. The best team always advances. The best team wins the championship each year.

First of all, you literally just admitted there that there's game rigging happening.

First of all, Slanting and rigging/fixing are two different things. Secondly, If something is fixed the outcome is predetermined. And thirdly….

They're literally the same in that they try to fix games in favour of certain teams.

Come on man.

Think about what you're saying for a second. If all home teams get helped by the league, that means it's not a fair game.

This is a percentages game. They don't need to rig 100% of games. If they rig 51%, they make a profit.

Stop with the tinfoil hat nonsense, we're trying to have a legit discussion here. I'm not calling you blind fool either.

I agree that the games are slanted, but by definition a “Fix” predetermines an outcome. The games are not fixed. The tinfoil hats are not nonsense.

K lemme try again because I spelling errorred and explained it poorly.

For betting purposes, they don't have to rig every single match. Or every single call. If they influence every game slightly here and there, they can predict outcomes on a percentage base. That's enough. I don't know how much you know about betting, but there's more than the win/loss column.

If tinfoil hat is fair, then it's also fair to say you're being ignorant. You know, in the interest of treating eachother as equals.

I already said it’s slanted, but that’s not the same as being fixed. Feel like in most sports the home team gets a favorable whistle, not just the NBA. If it was fixed, the best team wouldn’t advance each series. Watching this Mavs/Warriors series, I kinda wish they did put in a “Fix” as a Suns/Warriors matchup would have been more interesting. (Kidding with the last part. mostly)

[Kiorrik]

Games are slanted, the home team gets more calls, the league obviously wants long series to make more money. However…the idea that the games are fixed and that the officials determine who advances is ridiculous. The best team always advances. The best team wins the championship each year.

First of all, you literally just admitted there that there's game rigging happening.

First of all, Slanting and rigging/fixing are two different things. Secondly, If something is fixed the outcome is predetermined. And thirdly….

They're literally the same in that they try to fix games in favour of certain teams.

Come on man.

Think about what you're saying for a second. If all home teams get helped by the league, that means it's not a fair game.

This is a percentages game. They don't need to rig 100% of games. If they rig 51%, they make a profit.

Stop with the tinfoil hat nonsense, we're trying to have a legit discussion here. I'm not calling you blind fool either.

I agree that the games are slanted, but by definition a “Fix” predetermines an outcome. The games are not fixed. The tinfoil hats are not nonsense.

K lemme try again because I spelling errorred and explained it poorly.

For betting purposes, they don't have to rig every single match. Or every single call. If they influence every game slightly here and there, they can predict outcomes on a percentage base. That's enough. I don't know how much you know about betting, but there's more than the win/loss column.

If tinfoil hat is fair, then it's also fair to say you're being ignorant. You know, in the interest of treating eachother as equals.

I already said it’s slanted, but that’s not the same as being fixed. Feel like in most sports the home team gets a favorable whistle, not just the NBA. If it was fixed, the best team wouldn’t advance each series. Watching this Mavs/Warriors series, I kinda wish they did Fix it as a Suns/Warriors matchup would have been more interesting.

K I'll try again.

First of all, you're falling over the word "fixing" as an absolute on every single game.

Matchfixing doesn't work the way you think it works.

Not EVERY SINGLE MATCH has to be fixed.

50% of all teams are gonna win, 50% are gonna lose.

If you can somehow guarantee you can predict 51% of the matches right, every single season, you can put $100 on every single game and make a profit.

So what I'm telling you is that you don't have to fix "that one game", if you just influence 100% of all games by just 1%, to make a profit.

Does that make sense?

So match-fixing happens on a more nuanced level.

Don't get hung up on the one statistic.

[Goldstar88]

Games are slanted, the home team gets more calls, the league obviously wants long series to make more money. However…the idea that the games are fixed and that the officials determine who advances is ridiculous. The best team always advances. The best team wins the championship each year.

First of all, you literally just admitted there that there's game rigging happening.

First of all, Slanting and rigging/fixing are two different things. Secondly, If something is fixed the outcome is predetermined. And thirdly….

They're literally the same in that they try to fix games in favour of certain teams.

Come on man.

Think about what you're saying for a second. If all home teams get helped by the league, that means it's not a fair game.

This is a percentages game. They don't need to rig 100% of games. If they rig 51%, they make a profit.

Stop with the tinfoil hat nonsense, we're trying to have a legit discussion here. I'm not calling you blind fool either.

I agree that the games are slanted, but by definition a “Fix” predetermines an outcome. The games are not fixed. The tinfoil hats are not nonsense.

K lemme try again because I spelling errorred and explained it poorly.

For betting purposes, they don't have to rig every single match. Or every single call. If they influence every game slightly here and there, they can predict outcomes on a percentage base. That's enough. I don't know how much you know about betting, but there's more than the win/loss column.

If tinfoil hat is fair, then it's also fair to say you're being ignorant. You know, in the interest of treating eachother as equals.

I already said it’s slanted, but that’s not the same as being fixed. Feel like in most sports the home team gets a favorable whistle, not just the NBA. If it was fixed, the best team wouldn’t advance each series. Watching this Mavs/Warriors series, I kinda wish they did Fix it as a Suns/Warriors matchup would have been more interesting.

K I'll try again.

First of all, you're falling over the word "fixing" as an absolute on every single game.

Matchfixing doesn't work the way you think it works.

Not EVERY SINGLE MATCH has to be fixed.

50% of all teams are gonna win, 50% are gonna lose.

If you can somehow guarantee you can predict 51% of the matches right, every single season, you can put $100 on every single game and make a profit.

So what I'm telling you is that you don't have to fix "that one game", if you just influence 100% of all games by just 1%, to make a profit.

Does that make sense?

So match-fixing happens on a more nuanced level.

Don't get hung up on the one statistic.

Yes, the refs influence the game. In any sport… Yes, they will slant things to extend a series to make  more money. But at the end of the day, if the best team is advancing in each series, what do you care?

[tarheelsxxiii]

If you can somehow guarantee you can predict 51% of the matches right, every single season, you can put $100 on every single game and make a profit.

So what I'm telling you is that you don't have to fix "that one game", if you just influence 100% of all games by just 1%, to make a profit.

Does that make sense?

So match-fixing happens on a more nuanced level.

Basic game theory.  Professional poker players make a ton of money with very small edges, extrapolated over millions of hands.

[Kiorrik]

Games are slanted, the home team gets more calls, the league obviously wants long series to make more money. However…the idea that the games are fixed and that the officials determine who advances is ridiculous. The best team always advances. The best team wins the championship each year.

First of all, you literally just admitted there that there's game rigging happening.

First of all, Slanting and rigging/fixing are two different things. Secondly, If something is fixed the outcome is predetermined. And thirdly….

They're literally the same in that they try to fix games in favour of certain teams.

Come on man.

Think about what you're saying for a second. If all home teams get helped by the league, that means it's not a fair game.

This is a percentages game. They don't need to rig 100% of games. If they rig 51%, they make a profit.

Stop with the tinfoil hat nonsense, we're trying to have a legit discussion here. I'm not calling you blind fool either.

I agree that the games are slanted, but by definition a “Fix” predetermines an outcome. The games are not fixed. The tinfoil hats are not nonsense.

K lemme try again because I spelling errorred and explained it poorly.

For betting purposes, they don't have to rig every single match. Or every single call. If they influence every game slightly here and there, they can predict outcomes on a percentage base. That's enough. I don't know how much you know about betting, but there's more than the win/loss column.

If tinfoil hat is fair, then it's also fair to say you're being ignorant. You know, in the interest of treating eachother as equals.

I already said it’s slanted, but that’s not the same as being fixed. Feel like in most sports the home team gets a favorable whistle, not just the NBA. If it was fixed, the best team wouldn’t advance each series. Watching this Mavs/Warriors series, I kinda wish they did Fix it as a Suns/Warriors matchup would have been more interesting.

K I'll try again.

First of all, you're falling over the word "fixing" as an absolute on every single game.

Matchfixing doesn't work the way you think it works.

Not EVERY SINGLE MATCH has to be fixed.

50% of all teams are gonna win, 50% are gonna lose.

If you can somehow guarantee you can predict 51% of the matches right, every single season, you can put $100 on every single game and make a profit.

So what I'm telling you is that you don't have to fix "that one game", if you just influence 100% of all games by just 1%, to make a profit.

Does that make sense?

So match-fixing happens on a more nuanced level.

Don't get hung up on the one statistic.

Yes, the refs influence the game. In any sport… Yes, they will slant things to extend a series to make  more money. But at the end of the day, if the best team is advancing in each series, what do you care?

What do I care?

I care because it's getting more blatant, because it's becoming bigger than just 1%, and it's affecting the game that I love.

Just because YOU settle for "clearly influenced games" doesn't mean others do.

Seriously, we're not even blinking anymore when we say the words "home court advantage".

[tarheelsxxiii]

K I'll try again.

First of all, you're falling over the word "fixing" as an absolute on every single game.

Matchfixing doesn't work the way you think it works.

Not EVERY SINGLE MATCH has to be fixed.

50% of all teams are gonna win, 50% are gonna lose.

If you can somehow guarantee you can predict 51% of the matches right, every single season, you can put $100 on every single game and make a profit.

So what I'm telling you is that you don't have to fix "that one game", if you just influence 100% of all games by just 1%, to make a profit.

Does that make sense?

So match-fixing happens on a more nuanced level.

Don't get hung up on the one statistic.

Yes, the refs influence the game. In any sport… Yes, they will slant things to extend a series to make  more money. But at the end of the day, if the best team is advancing in each series, what do you care?

A few factors you may or may agree / disagree on:

1. Extent of tampering.  You seem to agree that it only occurs some games.  Do most games have some degree of tampering/bias, regardless of how much?  Is it more common in playoffs? NBA Finals? 

2. Who is tampering.  A crooked ref or two?  Players?  Team owners?  Or executives of the NBA?

3. Intention.  Maybe the biggest question.  Do you believe it's done intentionally?  For example, refs could have an unconscious bias (e.g., they're influenced by the crowd, stars, or players/coaches they've had the best interactions with over the years).  Or, those in position of power are deliberately affecting the outcomes each year, at a broad level.


An aside, in looking at the teams in the beginning of the playoffs, which two teams do you believe would gross the most income in a Finals match-up?

[Kiorrik]

K I'll try again.

First of all, you're falling over the word "fixing" as an absolute on every single game.

Matchfixing doesn't work the way you think it works.

Not EVERY SINGLE MATCH has to be fixed.

50% of all teams are gonna win, 50% are gonna lose.

If you can somehow guarantee you can predict 51% of the matches right, every single season, you can put $100 on every single game and make a profit.

So what I'm telling you is that you don't have to fix "that one game", if you just influence 100% of all games by just 1%, to make a profit.

Does that make sense?

So match-fixing happens on a more nuanced level.

Don't get hung up on the one statistic.

Yes, the refs influence the game. In any sport… Yes, they will slant things to extend a series to make  more money. But at the end of the day, if the best team is advancing in each series, what do you care?

A few factors you may or may agree / disagree on:

1. Extent of tampering.  You seem to agree that it only occurs some games.  Do most gains have some degree of tampering/bias, regardless of how much?  Is it more common in playoffs? NBA Finals? 

2. Who is tampering.  A crooked ref or two?  Players?  Team owners?  Or executives of the NBA?

3. Intention.  Maybe the biggest question.  Do you believe it's done intentionally?  For example, refs could have an unconscious bias (e.g., they're influenced by the crowd, stars, or players/coaches they've had the best interactions with over the years).  Or, those in position of power are deliberately affecting the outcomes each year, at a broad level.

An aside, in looking at the teams in the beginning of the playoffs, which two teams do you believe would gross the most income in a Finals match-up?

NBA employs +-20k people

Lotta room for little bits and pieces of unfair treatment of others.

I believe the league has prered players/teams, and they get a lil boost through so many different things. Some of it knowingly, some of it not so much.

Scott Foster is a good example of someone so crooked that he doesn't even care anymore.

As for whether he's the way he is because he's being told to or not, I don't know, I don't care.

[bdm860]

Specifically, TV camera crews would collude with NBA officials to implement TV breaks in order to affect the outcome of games.

I'm having a hard time even thinking of any way the camera crew could be in cahoots with the refs.  Can you give an example?

I really feel like the camera crew is powerless to impact the games. 

Unless you're talking more about the production team who can control what replays get shown to refs on review.  But that's such a small portion of the game, and requires the reviewed play to look significantly different from different angles, for someone to have the power to influence it.

I'm not getting this one.

[Goldstar88]

Games are slanted, the home team gets more calls, the league obviously wants long series to make more money. However…the idea that the games are fixed and that the officials determine who advances is ridiculous. The best team always advances. The best team wins the championship each year.

First of all, you literally just admitted there that there's game rigging happening.

First of all, Slanting and rigging/fixing are two different things. Secondly, If something is fixed the outcome is predetermined. And thirdly….

They're literally the same in that they try to fix games in favour of certain teams.

Come on man.

Think about what you're saying for a second. If all home teams get helped by the league, that means it's not a fair game.

This is a percentages game. They don't need to rig 100% of games. If they rig 51%, they make a profit.

Stop with the tinfoil hat nonsense, we're trying to have a legit discussion here. I'm not calling you blind fool either.

I agree that the games are slanted, but by definition a “Fix” predetermines an outcome. The games are not fixed. The tinfoil hats are not nonsense.

K lemme try again because I spelling errorred and explained it poorly.

For betting purposes, they don't have to rig every single match. Or every single call. If they influence every game slightly here and there, they can predict outcomes on a percentage base. That's enough. I don't know how much you know about betting, but there's more than the win/loss column.

If tinfoil hat is fair, then it's also fair to say you're being ignorant. You know, in the interest of treating eachother as equals.

I already said it’s slanted, but that’s not the same as being fixed. Feel like in most sports the home team gets a favorable whistle, not just the NBA. If it was fixed, the best team wouldn’t advance each series. Watching this Mavs/Warriors series, I kinda wish they did Fix it as a Suns/Warriors matchup would have been more interesting.

K I'll try again.

First of all, you're falling over the word "fixing" as an absolute on every single game.

Matchfixing doesn't work the way you think it works.

Not EVERY SINGLE MATCH has to be fixed.

50% of all teams are gonna win, 50% are gonna lose.

If you can somehow guarantee you can predict 51% of the matches right, every single season, you can put $100 on every single game and make a profit.

So what I'm telling you is that you don't have to fix "that one game", if you just influence 100% of all games by just 1%, to make a profit.

Does that make sense?

So match-fixing happens on a more nuanced level.

Don't get hung up on the one statistic.

Yes, the refs influence the game. In any sport… Yes, they will slant things to extend a series to make  more money. But at the end of the day, if the best team is advancing in each series, what do you care?

What do I care?

I care because it's getting more blatant, because it's becoming bigger than just 1%, and it's affecting the game that I love.

Just because YOU settle for "clearly influenced games" doesn't mean others do.

Seriously, we're not even blinking anymore when we say the words "home court advantage".

But if the best team is advancing each series, why does it make you not want to watch anymore? That’s what I don’t understand. The league is out to make as much money as possible, so they want each series to be long. I’m not saying it’s right, but I don’t really worry about it too much if the better team is advancing each time. If they were influencing things to the point where they were guaranteeing that certain teams or certain players(Lebron for example) were advancing, I’d stop watching. It would be the WWE at that point.

[Kiorrik]

Specifically, TV camera crews would collude with NBA officials to implement TV breaks in order to affect the outcome of games.

I'm having a hard time even thinking of any way the camera crew could be in cahoots with the refs.  Can you give an example?

I really feel like the camera crew is powerless to impact the games. 

Unless you're talking more about the production team who can control what replays get shown to refs on review.  But that's such a small portion of the game, and requires the reviewed play to look significantly different from different angles, for someone to have the power to influence it.

I'm not getting this one.

Storytelling is used to cover up a lot of match fixing.

 - Get national media to hype up a certain player as "defensive savant", so it doesn't look like a foul but "he's just that good"

 - You can decide not to show replays of things that looked like fouls

 - You can use replays to show refs get a call WRONG, but in favour of the losing team, to hide that you rigged it the other way

That last one is particularly insidious because you can hide your bias behind bias

[Kiorrik]

Games are slanted, the home team gets more calls, the league obviously wants long series to make more money. However…the idea that the games are fixed and that the officials determine who advances is ridiculous. The best team always advances. The best team wins the championship each year.

First of all, you literally just admitted there that there's game rigging happening.

First of all, Slanting and rigging/fixing are two different things. Secondly, If something is fixed the outcome is predetermined. And thirdly….

They're literally the same in that they try to fix games in favour of certain teams.

Come on man.

Think about what you're saying for a second. If all home teams get helped by the league, that means it's not a fair game.

This is a percentages game. They don't need to rig 100% of games. If they rig 51%, they make a profit.

Stop with the tinfoil hat nonsense, we're trying to have a legit discussion here. I'm not calling you blind fool either.

I agree that the games are slanted, but by definition a “Fix” predetermines an outcome. The games are not fixed. The tinfoil hats are not nonsense.

K lemme try again because I spelling errorred and explained it poorly.

For betting purposes, they don't have to rig every single match. Or every single call. If they influence every game slightly here and there, they can predict outcomes on a percentage base. That's enough. I don't know how much you know about betting, but there's more than the win/loss column.

If tinfoil hat is fair, then it's also fair to say you're being ignorant. You know, in the interest of treating eachother as equals.

I already said it’s slanted, but that’s not the same as being fixed. Feel like in most sports the home team gets a favorable whistle, not just the NBA. If it was fixed, the best team wouldn’t advance each series. Watching this Mavs/Warriors series, I kinda wish they did Fix it as a Suns/Warriors matchup would have been more interesting.

K I'll try again.

First of all, you're falling over the word "fixing" as an absolute on every single game.

Matchfixing doesn't work the way you think it works.

Not EVERY SINGLE MATCH has to be fixed.

50% of all teams are gonna win, 50% are gonna lose.

If you can somehow guarantee you can predict 51% of the matches right, every single season, you can put $100 on every single game and make a profit.

So what I'm telling you is that you don't have to fix "that one game", if you just influence 100% of all games by just 1%, to make a profit.

Does that make sense?

So match-fixing happens on a more nuanced level.

Don't get hung up on the one statistic.

Yes, the refs influence the game. In any sport… Yes, they will slant things to extend a series to make  more money. But at the end of the day, if the best team is advancing in each series, what do you care?

What do I care?

I care because it's getting more blatant, because it's becoming bigger than just 1%, and it's affecting the game that I love.

Just because YOU settle for "clearly influenced games" doesn't mean others do.

Seriously, we're not even blinking anymore when we say the words "home court advantage".

But if the best team is advancing each series, why does it make you not want to watch anymore? That’s what I don’t understand. The league is out to make as much money as possible, so they want each series to be long. I’m not saying it’s right, but I don’t really worry about it too much if the better team is advancing each time. If they were influencing things to the point where they were guaranteeing that certain teams or certain players(Lebron for example) were advancing, I wold stop watching. It would be the WWE at that point.

You keep saying "the best team advances" as though that's some kind of absolute truth. It's not.