Author Topic: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery  (Read 15770 times)

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Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2022, 11:32:48 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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As a basketball fan in general I don’t want to see Westbrook anywhere near ball. They have an exciting young team that needs better defense. Westbrook is a set back to all of this.

Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2022, 11:38:18 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Lakers trade of Westbrook looking a lot more likely with this report. 

Something like Westbrook, Reaves for Hayward, Oubre

That seems like something both teams would try.

Charlotte says no.   How does Westbrook help them?   An unhappy Hayward helps this team more then a need the ball in their hand Westbrook. 



I could see a team like Philly offering Harris.  (I also agree with Utah)

Yeah I know Hayward's always hurt but idk why Charlotte is motivated to do this. If anything, it'd also probably affect their young guys since Westbrook would absolutely continue to be a diva in Charlotte and stunt their growth. It'd be a real sign Charlotte is going nowhere adding him.
Get out of the last year of Hayward's contract.  Get a star for tickets for a year.  Get a decent young player on a minimum contract for a couple of years.


They already have the star to sell tickets.   They need to win games to sell more.   This doesn't help.
Yes but Hayward is a terrible contract and they need some future cap room for Bridges and eventually Ball.  Given his injury history and the extra year at 31.5 million, Hayward might actually be a worse contract than Westbrook.

They have sufficient space to resign Bridges and Martin this off-season, so they don’t need to make a move this year.  Next year could be trickier depending what they want to do with Washington, but Hayward as an expiring is much easier to deal with than Hayward with two-years left.  In short, I don’t expect them to move Hayward unless they get players they like more.  There is no need from a cap/tax perspective to do anything immediately.
Dealing him as an expiring would require salary back though.  If they want to clear him a year early, they need to move him this summer for expiring contracts and no one would want him except in a Westbrook style deal.

Hayward and Westbrook don't match salaries tho, so Charlotte would have to send out additional salary AND likely take back more salary next season, which could in fact make staying under the tax line more difficult than just keeping Hayward, while also making their team worse in the short run.

The general rule of the NBA is to not make a long-term salary dump before you need to, and there's no reason for Charlotte to deviate from that rule.  I get that you want to make the Lakers better, but Charlotte doesn't need to do that.
Westbrook, Reaves for Hayward, Oubre works just fine.  Charlotte clears a year from Hayward and gets a young player.

If Charlotte wanted someone like THT then they could swap Rozier for Oubre and really clear long term salary.  So Westbrook, Reaves, THT for Hayward, Rozier.

Charlotte has 1 year of Westbrook and then wipes out their long term bad or badish contracts and then has a nice clean cap to fully build around Ball, Bridges, Washington, etc. 

And part of the reason to clear Hayward (and potentially Rozier) after next year is they'd be able to sign a max level contract before they have to pay Ball, so they could really build around him. 
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Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2022, 11:38:33 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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I don't know why the hell Charlotte would want Westbrook.


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Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2022, 11:47:50 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Lakers trade of Westbrook looking a lot more likely with this report. 

Something like Westbrook, Reaves for Hayward, Oubre

That seems like something both teams would try.

Charlotte says no.   How does Westbrook help them?   An unhappy Hayward helps this team more then a need the ball in their hand Westbrook. 



I could see a team like Philly offering Harris.  (I also agree with Utah)

Yeah I know Hayward's always hurt but idk why Charlotte is motivated to do this. If anything, it'd also probably affect their young guys since Westbrook would absolutely continue to be a diva in Charlotte and stunt their growth. It'd be a real sign Charlotte is going nowhere adding him.
Get out of the last year of Hayward's contract.  Get a star for tickets for a year.  Get a decent young player on a minimum contract for a couple of years.


They already have the star to sell tickets.   They need to win games to sell more.   This doesn't help.
Yes but Hayward is a terrible contract and they need some future cap room for Bridges and eventually Ball.  Given his injury history and the extra year at 31.5 million, Hayward might actually be a worse contract than Westbrook.

They have sufficient space to resign Bridges and Martin this off-season, so they don’t need to make a move this year.  Next year could be trickier depending what they want to do with Washington, but Hayward as an expiring is much easier to deal with than Hayward with two-years left.  In short, I don’t expect them to move Hayward unless they get players they like more.  There is no need from a cap/tax perspective to do anything immediately.
Dealing him as an expiring would require salary back though.  If they want to clear him a year early, they need to move him this summer for expiring contracts and no one would want him except in a Westbrook style deal.

Hayward and Westbrook don't match salaries tho, so Charlotte would have to send out additional salary AND likely take back more salary next season, which could in fact make staying under the tax line more difficult than just keeping Hayward, while also making their team worse in the short run.

The general rule of the NBA is to not make a long-term salary dump before you need to, and there's no reason for Charlotte to deviate from that rule.  I get that you want to make the Lakers better, but Charlotte doesn't need to do that.
Westbrook, Reaves for Hayward, Oubre works just fine.  Charlotte clears a year from Hayward and gets a young player.

If Charlotte wanted someone like THT then they could swap Rozier for Oubre and really clear long term salary.  So Westbrook, Reaves, THT for Hayward, Rozier.

Charlotte has 1 year of Westbrook and then wipes out their long term bad or badish contracts and then has a nice clean cap to fully build around Ball, Bridges, Washington, etc. 

And part of the reason to clear Hayward (and potentially Rozier) after next year is they'd be able to sign a max level contract before they have to pay Ball, so they could really build around him.

Also if Westbrook has a hard time changing his game and deferring to Lebron, how is he gonna act deferring to Ball. Really hope this is just some posturing by Lakers/clutch and hayward whining.

Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2022, 11:51:53 AM »

Offline footey

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Lakers trade of Westbrook looking a lot more likely with this report. 

Something like Westbrook, Reaves for Hayward, Oubre

That seems like something both teams would try.

Charlotte says no.   How does Westbrook help them?   An unhappy Hayward helps this team more then a need the ball in their hand Westbrook. 



I could see a team like Philly offering Harris.  (I also agree with Utah)

Yeah I know Hayward's always hurt but idk why Charlotte is motivated to do this. If anything, it'd also probably affect their young guys since Westbrook would absolutely continue to be a diva in Charlotte and stunt their growth. It'd be a real sign Charlotte is going nowhere adding him.
Get out of the last year of Hayward's contract.  Get a star for tickets for a year.  Get a decent young player on a minimum contract for a couple of years.


They already have the star to sell tickets.   They need to win games to sell more.   This doesn't help.
Yes but Hayward is a terrible contract and they need some future cap room for Bridges and eventually Ball.  Given his injury history and the extra year at 31.5 million, Hayward might actually be a worse contract than Westbrook.

They have sufficient space to resign Bridges and Martin this off-season, so they don’t need to make a move this year.  Next year could be trickier depending what they want to do with Washington, but Hayward as an expiring is much easier to deal with than Hayward with two-years left.  In short, I don’t expect them to move Hayward unless they get players they like more.  There is no need from a cap/tax perspective to do anything immediately.
Dealing him as an expiring would require salary back though.  If they want to clear him a year early, they need to move him this summer for expiring contracts and no one would want him except in a Westbrook style deal.

Not that I would do this, but Horford for Hayward pretty much works.  Horford off books after next season just like Russ. Please he fulfills a much bigger need for Charlotte than Westbrick.   

Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2022, 11:58:15 AM »

Offline Celtics2021

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Lakers trade of Westbrook looking a lot more likely with this report. 

Something like Westbrook, Reaves for Hayward, Oubre

That seems like something both teams would try.

Charlotte says no.   How does Westbrook help them?   An unhappy Hayward helps this team more then a need the ball in their hand Westbrook. 



I could see a team like Philly offering Harris.  (I also agree with Utah)

Yeah I know Hayward's always hurt but idk why Charlotte is motivated to do this. If anything, it'd also probably affect their young guys since Westbrook would absolutely continue to be a diva in Charlotte and stunt their growth. It'd be a real sign Charlotte is going nowhere adding him.
Get out of the last year of Hayward's contract.  Get a star for tickets for a year.  Get a decent young player on a minimum contract for a couple of years.


They already have the star to sell tickets.   They need to win games to sell more.   This doesn't help.
Yes but Hayward is a terrible contract and they need some future cap room for Bridges and eventually Ball.  Given his injury history and the extra year at 31.5 million, Hayward might actually be a worse contract than Westbrook.

They have sufficient space to resign Bridges and Martin this off-season, so they don’t need to make a move this year.  Next year could be trickier depending what they want to do with Washington, but Hayward as an expiring is much easier to deal with than Hayward with two-years left.  In short, I don’t expect them to move Hayward unless they get players they like more.  There is no need from a cap/tax perspective to do anything immediately.
Dealing him as an expiring would require salary back though.  If they want to clear him a year early, they need to move him this summer for expiring contracts and no one would want him except in a Westbrook style deal.

Hayward and Westbrook don't match salaries tho, so Charlotte would have to send out additional salary AND likely take back more salary next season, which could in fact make staying under the tax line more difficult than just keeping Hayward, while also making their team worse in the short run.

The general rule of the NBA is to not make a long-term salary dump before you need to, and there's no reason for Charlotte to deviate from that rule.  I get that you want to make the Lakers better, but Charlotte doesn't need to do that.
Westbrook, Reaves for Hayward, Oubre works just fine.  Charlotte clears a year from Hayward and gets a young player.

If Charlotte wanted someone like THT then they could swap Rozier for Oubre and really clear long term salary.  So Westbrook, Reaves, THT for Hayward, Rozier.

Charlotte has 1 year of Westbrook and then wipes out their long term bad or badish contracts and then has a nice clean cap to fully build around Ball, Bridges, Washington, etc. 

And part of the reason to clear Hayward (and potentially Rozier) after next year is they'd be able to sign a max level contract before they have to pay Ball, so they could really build around him.

That trade doesn’t work for Charlotte, because they will have to choose between losing Cody Martin or going over the luxury tax, in addition to the on-court downgrade in talent, and at least as  importantly, fit.  A team that starts two PGs in Lamelo Ball and Terry Rozier does not need two more PGs in Westbrook and Reaves instead of two rotational wings in Hayward and Oubre (and perhaps a third if they can’t keep Martin due to financial constraints created by the extra salary).

Find a different partner for the Lakers.  It isn’t Charlotte.  You can do better.

Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2022, 12:00:31 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Hayward + Plumlee + #14 for Turner + Brogdon.

Indy gets a mid round first as well as a hometown hero to appease the fans.

Charlotte gets the elite defensive big they desperately need and another scorer in Brogdon.

Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2022, 12:02:42 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Hayward has a 15% trade kicker, which complicates trade opportunities slightly. His outgoing value is $30.5m for the Hornets but $35m for the team receiving him.

Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2022, 12:03:58 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Lakers trade of Westbrook looking a lot more likely with this report. 

Something like Westbrook, Reaves for Hayward, Oubre

That seems like something both teams would try.

Charlotte says no.   How does Westbrook help them?   An unhappy Hayward helps this team more then a need the ball in their hand Westbrook. 



I could see a team like Philly offering Harris.  (I also agree with Utah)

Yeah I know Hayward's always hurt but idk why Charlotte is motivated to do this. If anything, it'd also probably affect their young guys since Westbrook would absolutely continue to be a diva in Charlotte and stunt their growth. It'd be a real sign Charlotte is going nowhere adding him.
Get out of the last year of Hayward's contract.  Get a star for tickets for a year.  Get a decent young player on a minimum contract for a couple of years.


They already have the star to sell tickets.   They need to win games to sell more.   This doesn't help.
Yes but Hayward is a terrible contract and they need some future cap room for Bridges and eventually Ball.  Given his injury history and the extra year at 31.5 million, Hayward might actually be a worse contract than Westbrook.

They have sufficient space to resign Bridges and Martin this off-season, so they don’t need to make a move this year.  Next year could be trickier depending what they want to do with Washington, but Hayward as an expiring is much easier to deal with than Hayward with two-years left.  In short, I don’t expect them to move Hayward unless they get players they like more.  There is no need from a cap/tax perspective to do anything immediately.
Dealing him as an expiring would require salary back though.  If they want to clear him a year early, they need to move him this summer for expiring contracts and no one would want him except in a Westbrook style deal.

Not that I would do this, but Horford for Hayward pretty much works.  Horford off books after next season just like Russ. Please he fulfills a much bigger need for Charlotte than Westbrick.
But why would Boston do that?
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Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2022, 12:10:35 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Lakers trade of Westbrook looking a lot more likely with this report. 

Something like Westbrook, Reaves for Hayward, Oubre

That seems like something both teams would try.

Charlotte says no.   How does Westbrook help them?   An unhappy Hayward helps this team more then a need the ball in their hand Westbrook. 



I could see a team like Philly offering Harris.  (I also agree with Utah)

Yeah I know Hayward's always hurt but idk why Charlotte is motivated to do this. If anything, it'd also probably affect their young guys since Westbrook would absolutely continue to be a diva in Charlotte and stunt their growth. It'd be a real sign Charlotte is going nowhere adding him.
Get out of the last year of Hayward's contract.  Get a star for tickets for a year.  Get a decent young player on a minimum contract for a couple of years.


They already have the star to sell tickets.   They need to win games to sell more.   This doesn't help.
Yes but Hayward is a terrible contract and they need some future cap room for Bridges and eventually Ball.  Given his injury history and the extra year at 31.5 million, Hayward might actually be a worse contract than Westbrook.

They have sufficient space to resign Bridges and Martin this off-season, so they don’t need to make a move this year.  Next year could be trickier depending what they want to do with Washington, but Hayward as an expiring is much easier to deal with than Hayward with two-years left.  In short, I don’t expect them to move Hayward unless they get players they like more.  There is no need from a cap/tax perspective to do anything immediately.
Dealing him as an expiring would require salary back though.  If they want to clear him a year early, they need to move him this summer for expiring contracts and no one would want him except in a Westbrook style deal.

Not that I would do this, but Horford for Hayward pretty much works.  Horford off books after next season just like Russ. Please he fulfills a much bigger need for Charlotte than Westbrick.
But why would Boston do that?

Yeah doesn't make sense. If the C's are going to trade Horford it should be an "all-in" trade packaged with picks for a clear upgrade.

Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2022, 12:51:34 PM »

Offline #1P4P

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Posted about Hayward a few days.

It was contingent on him accepting a reduced role and signing for the mid-level when his contract expired.

If this report is correct, he wants to depart Charlotte for similar reasons he left Boston. Charlotte tried to feature him, but it’s tough to feature an oft-injured player especially when you acquire a prospect like Lamelo and have a young Miles Bridges trying to outgrow a 3rd-4th scorer role.

Hayward’s contract with 2 years $60M left is difficult trade. If he still wants to be a primary/secondary scorer, he’s limited to a select few teams and is further limited if he wants to be on a playoff team. If he could stay healthy, he can still be a good tertiary player on a playoff team like the Jazz or Lakers, but his injury history and contract make him less palatable.

Why trade for Hayward at 2-$60M, when Kevin Love and Harrison Barnes are available for much cheaper and a year less unless you’re getting rid of a contract like Westbrook? (why would the Hornets do it? Simple, they save $15M and can have all that space for 2023-24)

Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2022, 01:37:15 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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The Hayward fit in Charlotte never seemed right to me.  GH is a cerebral player who can handle the ball, pass and shoot jumpers.  The current CHA team is much better in up-tempo game where Ball, Bridges and Rozier can get out on the break.  Replacing Hayward with a Beverly/Smart type of defender would do wonders.  They would still have shooters like Oubre, Washington and others.

Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2022, 01:40:06 PM »

Offline footey

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Lakers trade of Westbrook looking a lot more likely with this report. 

Something like Westbrook, Reaves for Hayward, Oubre

That seems like something both teams would try.

Charlotte says no.   How does Westbrook help them?   An unhappy Hayward helps this team more then a need the ball in their hand Westbrook. 



I could see a team like Philly offering Harris.  (I also agree with Utah)

Yeah I know Hayward's always hurt but idk why Charlotte is motivated to do this. If anything, it'd also probably affect their young guys since Westbrook would absolutely continue to be a diva in Charlotte and stunt their growth. It'd be a real sign Charlotte is going nowhere adding him.
Get out of the last year of Hayward's contract.  Get a star for tickets for a year.  Get a decent young player on a minimum contract for a couple of years.


They already have the star to sell tickets.   They need to win games to sell more.   This doesn't help.
Yes but Hayward is a terrible contract and they need some future cap room for Bridges and eventually Ball.  Given his injury history and the extra year at 31.5 million, Hayward might actually be a worse contract than Westbrook.

They have sufficient space to resign Bridges and Martin this off-season, so they don’t need to make a move this year.  Next year could be trickier depending what they want to do with Washington, but Hayward as an expiring is much easier to deal with than Hayward with two-years left.  In short, I don’t expect them to move Hayward unless they get players they like more.  There is no need from a cap/tax perspective to do anything immediately.
Dealing him as an expiring would require salary back though.  If they want to clear him a year early, they need to move him this summer for expiring contracts and no one would want him except in a Westbrook style deal.

Not that I would do this, but Horford for Hayward pretty much works.  Horford off books after next season just like Russ. Please he fulfills a much bigger need for Charlotte than Westbrick.
But why would Boston do that?

Doubt they would other than to get a little younger and if they could find a decent replacement big for Horford that costs less $$. But yeah, given how well Al has fit in, and Hayward's recurring injuries, Boston wouldn't do it.

Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2022, 01:51:29 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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I don't buy Hayward whining about this. Makes zero sense. He's not a moron, he knows no team is going to make an oft-injured 32 yr old the focal point of their offense.

IMO, all of these stories are just fodder for Clutch and ESPN to try to keep a buzz about the NBA's marquee franchise after their embarrassing season. Jay Williams on ESPN is already pimping Ball to the Lakers.

Re: Rumor: Hornets forward Gordon Hayward wants change of scenery
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2022, 01:58:35 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Lakers trade of Westbrook looking a lot more likely with this report. 

Something like Westbrook, Reaves for Hayward, Oubre

That seems like something both teams would try.

Charlotte says no.   How does Westbrook help them?   An unhappy Hayward helps this team more then a need the ball in their hand Westbrook. 



I could see a team like Philly offering Harris.  (I also agree with Utah)

Yeah I know Hayward's always hurt but idk why Charlotte is motivated to do this. If anything, it'd also probably affect their young guys since Westbrook would absolutely continue to be a diva in Charlotte and stunt their growth. It'd be a real sign Charlotte is going nowhere adding him.
Get out of the last year of Hayward's contract.  Get a star for tickets for a year.  Get a decent young player on a minimum contract for a couple of years.


They already have the star to sell tickets.   They need to win games to sell more.   This doesn't help.
Yes but Hayward is a terrible contract and they need some future cap room for Bridges and eventually Ball.  Given his injury history and the extra year at 31.5 million, Hayward might actually be a worse contract than Westbrook.

They have sufficient space to resign Bridges and Martin this off-season, so they don’t need to make a move this year.  Next year could be trickier depending what they want to do with Washington, but Hayward as an expiring is much easier to deal with than Hayward with two-years left.  In short, I don’t expect them to move Hayward unless they get players they like more.  There is no need from a cap/tax perspective to do anything immediately.
Dealing him as an expiring would require salary back though.  If they want to clear him a year early, they need to move him this summer for expiring contracts and no one would want him except in a Westbrook style deal.

Not that I would do this, but Horford for Hayward pretty much works.  Horford off books after next season just like Russ. Please he fulfills a much bigger need for Charlotte than Westbrick.
But why would Boston do that?

Doubt they would other than to get a little younger and if they could find a decent replacement big for Horford that costs less $$. But yeah, given how well Al has fit in, and Hayward's recurring injuries, Boston wouldn't do it.
which is why I keep coming back to someone like Westbrook.  A big expiring contract a player the team would trade and who may benefit from Hayward (which is why I don't think Wall makes sense since Houston has no need for Hayward). 

I just believe Hayward has negative value given the size of his contract coupled with his inability to stay healthy and his actual production when he is actually playing (16, 4.5, 3.5 is not worth 30 million even at 80 games, let alone 50 games).  Thus, his market is going to be limited.  The one think Charlotte can accomplish though is shedding a year if they take on Westbrook and that does actually have value.  Getting out of his contract and dropping that salary from their books in 23-24 will allow them one last crack at a free agent before they max Ball.  They'd have even more room if they sent Rozier to the Lakers as well.

Westbrook, Reaves, THT for Hayward, Rozier

Very clean cap after 2023 for the Hornets in that scenario with basically just Ball, Bouknight, Jones, and whatever they re-sign Bridges and Martin for.  They'd have a cap hold on Washington of around 17 million and the player option on THT (and they could do the trade without THT if they wanted).  So they'd easily have max room to add that one more piece before Ball has to be maxed out.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2022, 02:06:16 PM by Moranis »
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