NBA Season 2021-22

[celticsclay]

Man this doesn’t seem good for chemistry: Embiid spoke candidly about the state of the Philadelphia 76ers following their Game 6 elimination by the Miami Heat. For the second straight season and third time in four seasons, the Sixers were eliminated in the second round.

"Since we got him, everybody expected the Houston James Harden," Embiid said. "But that's not who he is anymore. He's more of a playmaker. I thought, at times, he could have been, as all of us could have been, more aggressive. All of us whether it was Tyrese [Maxey] or Tobias [Harris] or guys coming off the bench.

"And I'm not just talking about offensively. I'm talking about, you know, as a whole offensively and defensively. I didn't think we were good defensively as a team. They took advantage of a lot of stuff that we tried to do defensively. And then offensively just really everybody being on the same page, obviously, only having probably what, three or four months to all work together and try to figure it out. Maybe it wasn't a lot of time. ... I don't think we played our best basketball."

Embiid also praised Jimmy Butler.

"Obviously, that's my guy," Embiid said. "That's my brother. Oh, man, it's tough. But I'm so proud of him. He's playing an unreal level right now. He's something else right now. I'm proud of him being at this level and carrying them and what he's been able to do. They've had ups and downs the whole season. Missing guys, not being healthy, and, they still found a way to be the No. 1 team in the East, and to be able to come in and do what they did, they deserve a lot of credit. They have a great team, great guys overall. And obviously great coaching and a great front offense. So a lot of credit to them.

"Like I said, I'm happy for him. I mean, I won't sit here and say I didn't wish he was my teammate. I still don't know how we let him go. I wish I could have gone to battle with him still. But it is what it is. I just gotta keep building and keep trying to reach that goal."

[SparzWizard]

Man this doesn’t seem good for chemistry: Embiid spoke candidly about the state of the Philadelphia 76ers following their Game 6 elimination by the Miami Heat. For the second straight season and third time in four seasons, the Sixers were eliminated in the second round.

"Since we got him, everybody expected the Houston James Harden," Embiid said. "But that's not who he is anymore. He's more of a playmaker. I thought, at times, he could have been, as all of us could have been, more aggressive. All of us whether it was Tyrese [Maxey] or Tobias [Harris] or guys coming off the bench.

"And I'm not just talking about offensively. I'm talking about, you know, as a whole offensively and defensively. I didn't think we were good defensively as a team. They took advantage of a lot of stuff that we tried to do defensively. And then offensively just really everybody being on the same page, obviously, only having probably what, three or four months to all work together and try to figure it out. Maybe it wasn't a lot of time. ... I don't think we played our best basketball."

Embiid also praised Jimmy Butler.

"Obviously, that's my guy," Embiid said. "That's my brother. Oh, man, it's tough. But I'm so proud of him. He's playing an unreal level right now. He's something else right now. I'm proud of him being at this level and carrying them and what he's been able to do. They've had ups and downs the whole season. Missing guys, not being healthy, and, they still found a way to be the No. 1 team in the East, and to be able to come in and do what they did, they deserve a lot of credit. They have a great team, great guys overall. And obviously great coaching and a great front offense. So a lot of credit to them.

"Like I said, I'm happy for him. I mean, I won't sit here and say I didn't wish he was my teammate. I still don't know how we let him go. I wish I could have gone to battle with him still. But it is what it is. I just gotta keep building and keep trying to reach that goal."

Speaking it as it is. That'll drive 76ers front office nuts and some of his teammates, including the new acquired guard James Harden.

Embiid, C's could definitely use your presence here. It's time to change scenery lol

[Donoghus]

I feel bad for Embiid.  That front office let him down. 

At the same time, screw the Sixers.  Now and always.   

[hpantazo]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Embiid ends up in Miami soon. Him and Butler were a great fit.

[celticsclay]

I know this is probably opening a can of worms to ask this, but what exactly could Hinkie have done differently? At the end of the day the draft picks they had just didn't pan out. Okafor is playing in China and not an NBA player. Saric topped out as a good bench player (and may also now be out of the NBA). Noel topped out as an often injured bench player. Simmons seemingly has topped out as a fringe all-star moving forward (at best). Fultz at best may be a starting level point guard? For the year over year rebuilding/tanking that other teams have done, you really need two homeruns. The twolves may have hit two with Edwards and Towns. The grizzlies appeared to have hit two, or more, with Jackson and Morant. It doesn't appear the 76ers did that.

[celticsclay]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Embiid ends up in Miami soon. Him and Butler were a great fit.

I mean, I certainly believe Embid would not be super upset to go play with Butler, but what could Miami put together that would be of interest. Bam and Herro and picks? I guess that is not a laughable package.

[Celtics2021]

I know this is probably opening a can of worms to ask this, but what exactly could Hinkie have done differently? At the end of the day the draft picks they had just didn't pan out. Okafor is playing in China and not an NBA player. Saric topped out as a good bench player (and may also now be out of the NBA). Noel topped out as an often injured bench player. Simmons seemingly has topped out as a fringe all-star moving forward. Fultz at best may be a starting level point guard? For the year over year rebuilding/tanking that other teams have done, you really need two homeruns. The twolves may have hit two with Edwards and Towns. The grizzlies appeared to have hit two, or more, with Jackson and Morant. It doesn't appear the 76ers did that.

Huge can of worms, but the easy answers would have been to:

1) Draft players that fit together better, rather than expending the 6th overall and two #3 overalls in three consecutive seasons on bigs who had zero chance of ever fitting together.  And then, having done that, not refused to trade any of them until their trade value had cratered.  At some point you need to think about how the pieces fit together.

2) Not tanked as dramatically hard for so many seasons, thus teaching your young players bad habits that they then never completely break out of (Ben Simmons being the prime, but not sole, example).

[celticsclay]

I know this is probably opening a can of worms to ask this, but what exactly could Hinkie have done differently? At the end of the day the draft picks they had just didn't pan out. Okafor is playing in China and not an NBA player. Saric topped out as a good bench player (and may also now be out of the NBA). Noel topped out as an often injured bench player. Simmons seemingly has topped out as a fringe all-star moving forward. Fultz at best may be a starting level point guard? For the year over year rebuilding/tanking that other teams have done, you really need two homeruns. The twolves may have hit two with Edwards and Towns. The grizzlies appeared to have hit two, or more, with Jackson and Morant. It doesn't appear the 76ers did that.

Huge can of worms, but the easy answers would have been to:

1) Draft players that fit together better, rather than expending the 6th overall and two #3 overalls in three consecutive seasons on bigs who had zero chance of ever fitting together.  And then, having done that, not refused to trade any of them until their trade value had cratered.  At some point you need to think about how the pieces fit together.

2) Not tanked as dramatically hard for so many seasons, thus teaching your young players bad habits that they then never completely break out of (Ben Simmons being the prime, but not sole, example).

Well I more meant people are saying the Sixers are where they are because Hinkie was forced out. But at the end of the day the guys he drafted really ended up performing quite poorly with Okafor being a historically bad bust, Noel being a semi bust, and Simmons now appearing to be a pretty lousy number one overall pick (not Bennet level bad, but their future is so much brighter right now with ingram or jaylen instead of what simmons gives or old harden. The fultz pick was after him, but if you believe the Celtics and Ainge when they said they were going to draft him anyways it appears they would have ended up with him regardless.

[Celtics2021]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Embiid ends up in Miami soon. Him and Butler were a great fit.

I mean, I certainly believe Embid would not be super upset to go play with Butler, but what could Miami put together that would be of interest. Bam and Herro and picks? I guess that is not a laughable package.

It certainly doesn’t have Miami hanging up the phone.

[Vermont Green]

I know this is probably opening a can of worms to ask this, but what exactly could Hinkie have done differently? At the end of the day the draft picks they had just didn't pan out. Okafor is playing in China and not an NBA player. Saric topped out as a good bench player (and may also now be out of the NBA). Noel topped out as an often injured bench player. Simmons seemingly has topped out as a fringe all-star moving forward (at best). Fultz at best may be a starting level point guard? For the year over year rebuilding/tanking that other teams have done, you really need two homeruns. The twolves may have hit two with Edwards and Towns. The grizzlies appeared to have hit two, or more, with Jackson and Morant. It doesn't appear the 76ers did that.

You answered your own question regarding the draft.  I accept (probably more than most) that drafting is a crap shoot but when you miss as often as they did, you can't blame bad luck.  They squandered multiple multiple picks.

Then they overpaid Harris, let Butler get away, couldn't figure out how to use Horford, and there are probably some more.  And I believe that they are partially to blame for Simmons.  It seems they could have handled it better.  Maybe all the TLC in the world wouldn't have made any difference but it didn't seem like they even tried to really figure out what kind of help he needed.

[johnnygreen]

This will be an interesting off season for Philly and James Harden, who has a $47M player option. He is clearly not a max player anymore. However, if he doesn't get paid the max, he will mentally check out the second the contract is signed. Does Harden pick up the player option and try to get into shape again this offseason, in hopes of getting one more max contract?

Assuming Harden actually likes Philly and wants to stay, I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't opt into the last year.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Philly signs him to an extension adding years or money to the back end of the deal though I would be surprised if it was for the max allowed.

What is their ceiling moving forward with harden? Especially considering he is going to, at best, get a little worse each coming year.

In another scenario, what if Philly realizes it was a mistake bringing Harden in. Does Philly tell him, if you pick up the player option, we're going to just pay you to stay home. It may sound good to get paid $47M to do nothing, but it would negatively affect a potential next contract.

[Moranis]

I know this is probably opening a can of worms to ask this, but what exactly could Hinkie have done differently? At the end of the day the draft picks they had just didn't pan out. Okafor is playing in China and not an NBA player. Saric topped out as a good bench player (and may also now be out of the NBA). Noel topped out as an often injured bench player. Simmons seemingly has topped out as a fringe all-star moving forward (at best). Fultz at best may be a starting level point guard? For the year over year rebuilding/tanking that other teams have done, you really need two homeruns. The twolves may have hit two with Edwards and Towns. The grizzlies appeared to have hit two, or more, with Jackson and Morant. It doesn't appear the 76ers did that.

Hinkie didn't draft Fultz and probably never would have made that trade and would have just taken whoever was there at 3 (he didn't draft Simmons either, though he would have taken him).  The Fultz trade and debacle really was the bad move that set them down this path.  They then doubled down getting rid of a lot of quality assets for Butler only to let him walk after a year for no reason.  None of that was on Hinkie. 

Hinkie obviously had some misses high in the draft (which was the whole point of the Process to begin with), but he also did pretty well later in the draft and finding players off the scrap heap i.e. Robert Covington, Jerami Grant, Dario Saric, Christian Wood, Richaun Holmes, and role players like Ish Smith.  He also had a lot of very good trades.  One of the best was the draft day trade in 2014 trading the 10th pick for the 12th pick, a 2015 2nd rounder (35 - Willy Hernangomez), and a 2017 1st round pick (3rd pick - i.e. Jayson Tatum) all because the Magic really wanted Elfrid Payton on draft day.  That was an incredible value trade and he ended up with Saric the guy he wanted at 10 anyway.  He realized Michael Carter-Williams wasn't going to grow and sold him high after winning rookie of the year and ended up with a 1st round pick that ended up being the 10th pick in 2018 (Mikal Bridges). 

The 3 years or so of trades left the Sixers with so many future draft picks and a franchise player to build around (Embiid).  I have no idea if Hinkie would have completed the Process to a championship or even Finals appearance, but I have absolutely no doubt that he would have done a better job than Colangelo, because Colangelo just blows.  And there is no way Hinkie would have traded the 3rd pick (and the future Kings pick - Langford) for the 1st pick in the draft.  That wasn't a Hinkie type move.  Had Boston kept the pick and taken Tatum 1, I think the Lakers would have taken Fultz and the Sixers would have taken Ball (even with Simmons on the roster) because that is the type of move Hinkie would have made (if the Lakers still took Ball, then the Sixers would have taken Fultz at 3).  Also, a good chance Hinkie would have traded back from 3 if someone fell in love with Fultz or Ball (that is much more a Hinkie style move).  I don't think he would have made the Butler trade either (at least not without keeping him - Hinkie wouldn't have used assets to acquire someone he had no intention of keeping unless it was a value play) and he wouldn't have let all his guys go like Wood, Holmes, and Grant.  How much different do the Sixers look with a potential roster of Embiid, Grant, Simmons, Ball/Fultz, Bridges, Covington, Saric, Wood, Holmes, Langford, etc. (and I know they probably wouldn't have kept all of those players nor made all of those draft picks). 

It is just hard to say what Hinkie would have done, but they should have let him try to build the team into a contender.  He certainly wouldn't have done worse than the crap after him. 

[Moranis]

This will be an interesting off season for Philly and James Harden, who has a $47M player option. He is clearly not a max player anymore. However, if he doesn't get paid the max, he will mentally check out the second the contract is signed. Does Harden pick up the player option and try to get into shape again this offseason, in hopes of getting one more max contract?

Assuming Harden actually likes Philly and wants to stay, I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't opt into the last year.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Philly signs him to an extension adding years or money to the back end of the deal though I would be surprised if it was for the max allowed.

What is their ceiling moving forward with harden? Especially considering he is going to, at best, get a little worse each coming year.

There was a 2 month period in the middle of the year, when Durant was out, that Harden was pretty close to his MVP form.  he then pulled his hammy and was never the same.  So it is hard to answer the question without knowing if the reason Harden looked as slow and unaggressive as he did in the playoffs was the result of his hammy not being fully healed or if he is just old.  If he is just old, the Sixers ceiling is probably ECF with the basic roster as is (it isn't hard to see them beating Miami this year with a healthy Embiid as an example), if it was the hammy and Harden is better because he is healthier, then I think they could win the title (could, not favorites or anything).  Their success obviously mostly hinges on Embiid, but a more aggressive Harden, even one geared towards playmaking so like 20 ppg and 12 apg, then that should be enough with MVP candidate Embiid, a rising star in Maxey, and a solid all around player like Harris for the Sixers to legitimately contend. 

All that said, I'd try to move Harris this summer though.  I think if they can get a slightly better fitting piece, even one a bit less talented, for Harris that would help them a lot.  I'm not sure what will be available to them given Harris' contract is awful, but I'd try to move him. 

[celticsclay]

I know this is probably opening a can of worms to ask this, but what exactly could Hinkie have done differently? At the end of the day the draft picks they had just didn't pan out. Okafor is playing in China and not an NBA player. Saric topped out as a good bench player (and may also now be out of the NBA). Noel topped out as an often injured bench player. Simmons seemingly has topped out as a fringe all-star moving forward (at best). Fultz at best may be a starting level point guard? For the year over year rebuilding/tanking that other teams have done, you really need two homeruns. The twolves may have hit two with Edwards and Towns. The grizzlies appeared to have hit two, or more, with Jackson and Morant. It doesn't appear the 76ers did that.

Hinkie didn't draft Fultz and probably never would have made that trade and would have just taken whoever was there at 3 (he didn't draft Simmons either, though he would have taken him).  The Fultz trade and debacle really was the bad move that set them down this path.  They then doubled down getting rid of a lot of quality assets for Butler only to let him walk after a year for no reason.  None of that was on Hinkie. 

Hinkie obviously had some misses high in the draft (which was the whole point of the Process to begin with), but he also did pretty well later in the draft and finding players off the scrap heap i.e. Robert Covington, Jerami Grant, Dario Saric, Christian Wood, Richaun Holmes, and role players like Ish Smith.  He also had a lot of very good trades.  One of the best was the draft day trade in 2014 trading the 10th pick for the 12th pick, a 2015 2nd rounder (35 - Willy Hernangomez), and a 2017 1st round pick (3rd pick - i.e. Jayson Tatum) all because the Magic really wanted Elfrid Payton on draft day.  That was an incredible value trade and he ended up with Saric the guy he wanted at 10 anyway.  He realized Michael Carter-Williams wasn't going to grow and sold him high after winning rookie of the year and ended up with a 1st round pick that ended up being the 10th pick in 2018 (Mikal Bridges). 

The 3 years or so of trades left the Sixers with so many future draft picks and a franchise player to build around (Embiid).  I have no idea if Hinkie would have completed the Process to a championship or even Finals appearance, but I have absolutely no doubt that he would have done a better job than Colangelo, because Colangelo just blows.  And there is no way Hinkie would have traded the 3rd pick (and the future Kings pick - Langford) for the 1st pick in the draft.  That wasn't a Hinkie type move.  Had Boston kept the pick and taken Tatum 1, I think the Lakers would have taken Fultz and the Sixers would have taken Ball (even with Simmons on the roster) because that is the type of move Hinkie would have made (if the Lakers still took Ball, then the Sixers would have taken Fultz at 3).  Also, a good chance Hinkie would have traded back from 3 if someone fell in love with Fultz or Ball (that is much more a Hinkie style move).  I don't think he would have made the Butler trade either (at least not without keeping him - Hinkie wouldn't have used assets to acquire someone he had no intention of keeping unless it was a value play) and he wouldn't have let all his guys go like Wood, Holmes, and Grant.  How much different do the Sixers look with a potential roster of Embiid, Grant, Simmons, Ball/Fultz, Bridges, Covington, Saric, Wood, Holmes, Langford, etc. (and I know they probably wouldn't have kept all of those players nor made all of those draft picks). 

It is just hard to say what Hinkie would have done, but they should have let him try to build the team into a contender.  He certainly wouldn't have done worse than the crap after him.

Really bending over backwards to give Hinkie the benefit of the doubt on a lot of stuff here (and just flat out remembering some things inaccurately). A bit mind blowing to be honest. Like you said, he obviously would have drafted Simmons. So why even point that out, and he did "earn" that draft pick. Its the kind of noise that just makes a post messy. This goes back into what Vermont Green, draft is a total crap shoot and they got a semi bust with the number 1 pick. Getting on to some relevant stuff:

Is Dario Saric really some huge success story? He topped out the last 4 years as a guy averaging about 10 and 6 and 2 as a guy off the bench (I remember you once famously said he would average 20-10 and 5 on a different team). That is fine for a 12th pick, but pretty close to average. (if you were trying to make the point that at one point Saric had value, that is somewhat true, but then you are saying Hinkie would not have done the butler trade so kind of makes the point moot. Saric's lateral speed was always a fundamental problem (now probably worse with the injury) that has only become more pronounced as the league has improved on ball movement, pace and attacking players on switches. When you couple this with the pick of Okafor who had the same exact problem only with less overall skills, it seems this was a pretty fatal flaw for Hinkie not realizing how important being able to move quickly was becoming in the modern NBA. At this time Drummond, Monroe, Mozgov, Gortat were all seen as solid to good centers. Hinkie was slow to recognize the direction of the NBA here as were many others. 

Related lets not just gloss over Okafor being the worst number 3 pick of the last 15 years (significantly worse career than everyone since Adam Morrison, all number three picks except Okafor going back to Morrison were still playing in the NBA this past season except OJ Mayo on a drug suspensions. That's incredible. 

Next, why in the world would you mention Christian Wood as a success story for Hinkie? Your point on this is just flat out inaccurate when you say he wouldn't just let him go: "Between September 27th and early January, Wood constantly flip-flopped back and forth between the Sixers and their D-League affiliate team (Delaware 87ers). He was officially released from the main roster on January 4th, but then signed back to the 87ers two days later. A few weeks after that and he was re-signed by the 76ers, just to be waived a few days later. A few days after that, he was once again picked up by the 87ers." (all under Hinkie). So Hinkie did literally repeatedly let him go for nothing.

Further making your recollection strange is that the coach Hinkie chose refused to play him, which Wood talks about to this day. (https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/news/rockets-christian-wood-fond-sixers-brett-brown).

Having a talented guy you find and not playing him and waiving is actually an indictment of your talent evaluation. I have yet to see you or anyone else say Ainge/stevens should get credit for having interest in Strus and briefly on a two way contract and then letting him go. 

Why do we think it would be more likely they would have kept Holmes under Hinkie? He barely played under Brown (again Hinkie's coach) and they also just had a disaster of a center rotation all because of Hinkie's moves where he drafted a center ever year which made keeping him or playing him impossible.

Also I am confused why you are you giving Hinkie credit for Ish Smith. He literally let Smith go for nothing to sign for a minimum non guaranteed deal with wizards. This was despite his center saying this (Nerlens Noel referred to Smith as "the first true point guard I've ever really played with). Hinkie did this cause he wanted to bottom out even further. Again this is just like Struss (or more recently not keeping Bane). Its an incredibly weird thing to give Hinkie credit for losing talented guys intentionally for nothing.

You also really oddly lament the 76ers losing Grant, when it was actually a really brilliant trade by Colangelo (I am not saying he was a great executive, was quite lousy, but this was a great trade). It got them Illasova who helped them experience some of their first success and Tyrese Maxey! If Hinkie wouldn't have done that move that is another indictment on him.

Overall, your post is full of so many inconsistencies it is going to have my head spinning all day (especially compared to how you have posted about Ainge and Stevens for many years). Can we cleanse my palette with a more reasonable and accurate take from someone else and not this impossible fantasy land stuff?

[Moranis]

Pretty comical for someone to talk of inaccuracies when the initial statement had Hinkie drafting a ayer that was drafted a year and a half after he left the team. 

Wood was on the Sixers when Hinkie resigned.  It is quite common for undrafted players to bounce between the gleague and NBA as rookies and before the 2 way contract it was often on those 10 day nba contracts that the Sixers used with Wood.  He wasn't letting Wood go, he was basically calling him up to the majors and then sending him to the minors and that is how you had to do it before 2 way contracts (those came about in the 2017 CBA).  Had Hinkie let Wood go and then resigned that would be one thing, but Wood was part of the Sixers organization when Hinkie resigned. 

As I've consistently said, I have no idea how Hinkie would have done at actual team building, but he did a fine job in asset collection and left the Sixers in a much better position then when he got there.