Spurs’ Murray and White Available?

[liam]

Murray shot 31% from 3 last year 5.4 assists

Smart shot 33%, 5.7 assists

Not really an upgrade.

Except Murray shot half the amount of threes Smart did, shot 5% better from the field, rebounds at double the rate, turns it over less, fouls less and played better defence last year.

See my trade idea above:

I'd do it in a heartbeat, but we'd probably have to give up Langford or another 1st to get Vassell

I'd do that too.

[radiohead]

Murray would be a great starting PG for this Celtics team. Ime would probably be on it if the rumor is true.

[Sophomore]

Murray shot 31% from 3 last year 5.4 assists

Smart shot 33%, 5.7 assists

Not really an upgrade.

Except Murray shot half the amount of threes Smart did, shot 5% better from the field, rebounds at double the rate, turns it over less, fouls less and played better defence last year.

Smart's true shooting %age was 54%. Murray's was 51%. TS% takes into account 3s, 2-point shoots, and free throws. (For reference, league average is around 58%.)

They were both pretty bad scoring the ball, but all things considered Murray was worse, and really really bad.

Smart's defense was off last year, and that is a legitimate concern. I do buy that last year was a very bad year for a lot of players, him included, and that he was also hurt a good part of the year. He's been a bulldog for a long time, and I think it's more likely he will be back next year.

[gouki88]

Murray shot 31% from 3 last year 5.4 assists

Smart shot 33%, 5.7 assists

Not really an upgrade.

Except Murray shot half the amount of threes Smart did, shot 5% better from the field, rebounds at double the rate, turns it over less, fouls less and played better defence last year.

Smart's true shooting %age was 54%. Murray's was 51%. TS% takes into account 3s, 2-point shoots, and free throws. (For reference, league average is around 58%.)

They were both pretty bad scoring the ball, but all things considered Murray was worse, and really really bad.

Smart's defense was off last year, and that is a legitimate concern. I do buy that last year was a very bad year for a lot of players, him included, and that he was also hurt a good part of the year. He's been a bulldog for a long time, and I think it's more likely he will be back next year.

Murray would never get 14.5 FGAs here, so I don't think it's particularly concerning. He'd be here for his passing, versatile defence (6'4" with a 6'10" wingspan), dribble penetration and rebounding. I also think that given Murray's mid-range game (47.2% between 16-24 feet) he could really improve in a lesser offensive role.

[Who]

Murray shot 31% from 3 last year 5.4 assists

Smart shot 33%, 5.7 assists

Not really an upgrade.

Except Murray shot half the amount of threes Smart did, shot 5% better from the field, rebounds at double the rate, turns it over less, fouls less and played better defence last year.

Smart's true shooting %age was 54%. Murray's was 51%. TS% takes into account 3s, 2-point shoots, and free throws. (For reference, league average is around 58%.)

They were both pretty bad scoring the ball, but all things considered Murray was worse, and really really bad.

Smart's defense was off last year, and that is a legitimate concern. I do buy that last year was a very bad year for a lot of players, him included, and that he was also hurt a good part of the year. He's been a bulldog for a long time, and I think it's more likely he will be back next year.

Murray would never get 14.5 FGAs here, so I don't think it's particularly concerning. He'd be here for his passing, versatile defence (6'4" with a 6'10" wingspan), dribble penetration and rebounding. I also think that given Murray's mid-range game (47.2% between 16-24 feet) he could really improve in a lesser offensive role.

It would be great to have someone who could drive and dish. We currently have nobody on the team who is able to do so well.

Neither Smart or Pritchard offer that at PG. Fournier, Tatum and Jaylen are all currently secondary ball-handlers / creators rather than primary options.

[Jvalin]

Murray shot 31% from 3 last year 5.4 assists

Smart shot 33%, 5.7 assists

Not really an upgrade.

Except Murray shot half the amount of threes Smart did, shot 5% better from the field, rebounds at double the rate, turns it over less, fouls less and played better defence last year.

Smart's true shooting %age was 54%. Murray's was 51%. TS% takes into account 3s, 2-point shoots, and free throws. (For reference, league average is around 58%.)

They were both pretty bad scoring the ball, but all things considered Murray was worse, and really really bad.

Smart's defense was off last year, and that is a legitimate concern. I do buy that last year was a very bad year for a lot of players, him included, and that he was also hurt a good part of the year. He's been a bulldog for a long time, and I think it's more likely he will be back next year.

Murray would never get 14.5 FGAs here, so I don't think it's particularly concerning. He'd be here for his passing, versatile defence (6'4" with a 6'10" wingspan), dribble penetration and rebounding. I also think that given Murray's mid-range game (47.2% between 16-24 feet) he could really improve in a lesser offensive role.

It would be great to have someone who could drive and dish. We currently have nobody on the team who is able to do so well.

Neither Smart or Pritchard offer that at PG. Fournier, Tatum and Jaylen are all currently secondary ball-handlers / creators rather than primary options.

How is Tatum our secondary shot creator? We run pretty much everything through him in the half court. Obviously, he ain't an elite facilitator, but he can definitely create shots for his teammates.

Personally speaking, I'd want us to start an oversized, pass-first PG who's happy to play off the ball on offense. Don't really care whether he can create his own shot. We already got 4 scoring options in our starting lineup in Tatum, Brown, Fournier and (to a lesser extent due to his age) Horford. In fact, I actually think we'd be better off with a PG who ain't looking to create his own shot. It would do wonders for our ball movement.

The way I see it, none of Smart / Dejounte / White is an ideal fit. They're average shooters, hence they aren't great off-ball options. In any case, Smart fits the bill in my book, cause he's happy to play off the ball and he's literally the perfect fit in our switch-heavy defensive system. He's also a reliable ball handler, an underrated passer (especially in the PnR) and a respectable shooter. 

[Csfan1984]

Nice player but I agree not a huge upgrade. On top of that if you want to target 2022 or 2023 fA you need Smart as expiring.

[pearljammer10]

Murray for Smart and pieces would be phenomenal for us.

[td450]

Murray shot 31% from 3 last year 5.4 assists

Smart shot 33%, 5.7 assists

Not really an upgrade.

Except Murray shot half the amount of threes Smart did, shot 5% better from the field, rebounds at double the rate, turns it over less, fouls less and played better defence last year.

Smart's true shooting %age was 54%. Murray's was 51%. TS% takes into account 3s, 2-point shoots, and free throws. (For reference, league average is around 58%.)

They were both pretty bad scoring the ball, but all things considered Murray was worse, and really really bad.

Smart's defense was off last year, and that is a legitimate concern. I do buy that last year was a very bad year for a lot of players, him included, and that he was also hurt a good part of the year. He's been a bulldog for a long time, and I think it's more likely he will be back next year.

Murray would never get 14.5 FGAs here, so I don't think it's particularly concerning. He'd be here for his passing, versatile defence (6'4" with a 6'10" wingspan), dribble penetration and rebounding. I also think that given Murray's mid-range game (47.2% between 16-24 feet) he could really improve in a lesser offensive role.

It would be great to have someone who could drive and dish. We currently have nobody on the team who is able to do so well.

Neither Smart or Pritchard offer that at PG. Fournier, Tatum and Jaylen are all currently secondary ball-handlers / creators rather than primary options.

How is Tatum our secondary shot creator? We run pretty much everything through him in the half court. Obviously, he ain't an elite facilitator, but he can definitely create shots for his teammates.

Personally speaking, I'd want us to start an oversized, pass-first PG who's happy to play off the ball on offense. Don't really care whether he can create his own shot. We already got 4 scoring options in our starting lineup in Tatum, Brown, Fournier and (to a lesser extent due to his age) Horford. In fact, I actually think we'd be better off with a PG who ain't looking to create his own shot. It would do wonders for our ball movement.

The way I see it, none of Smart / Dejounte / White is an ideal fit. They're average shooters, hence they aren't great off-ball options. In any case, Smart fits the bill in my book, cause he's happy to play off the ball and he's literally the perfect fit in our switch-heavy defensive system. He's also a reliable ball handler, an underrated passer (especially in the PnR) and a respectable shooter.

Smart slows everything down and doesn't make good decisions. I would be fine with him starting if he was a better decision maker under pressure, and if he just made a conscious decision to get up court more quickly and keep the ball moving. But he hasn't ever really shown that.

[Jvalin]

Murray shot 31% from 3 last year 5.4 assists

Smart shot 33%, 5.7 assists

Not really an upgrade.

Except Murray shot half the amount of threes Smart did, shot 5% better from the field, rebounds at double the rate, turns it over less, fouls less and played better defence last year.

Smart's true shooting %age was 54%. Murray's was 51%. TS% takes into account 3s, 2-point shoots, and free throws. (For reference, league average is around 58%.)

They were both pretty bad scoring the ball, but all things considered Murray was worse, and really really bad.

Smart's defense was off last year, and that is a legitimate concern. I do buy that last year was a very bad year for a lot of players, him included, and that he was also hurt a good part of the year. He's been a bulldog for a long time, and I think it's more likely he will be back next year.

Murray would never get 14.5 FGAs here, so I don't think it's particularly concerning. He'd be here for his passing, versatile defence (6'4" with a 6'10" wingspan), dribble penetration and rebounding. I also think that given Murray's mid-range game (47.2% between 16-24 feet) he could really improve in a lesser offensive role.

It would be great to have someone who could drive and dish. We currently have nobody on the team who is able to do so well.

Neither Smart or Pritchard offer that at PG. Fournier, Tatum and Jaylen are all currently secondary ball-handlers / creators rather than primary options.

How is Tatum our secondary shot creator? We run pretty much everything through him in the half court. Obviously, he ain't an elite facilitator, but he can definitely create shots for his teammates.

Personally speaking, I'd want us to start an oversized, pass-first PG who's happy to play off the ball on offense. Don't really care whether he can create his own shot. We already got 4 scoring options in our starting lineup in Tatum, Brown, Fournier and (to a lesser extent due to his age) Horford. In fact, I actually think we'd be better off with a PG who ain't looking to create his own shot. It would do wonders for our ball movement.

The way I see it, none of Smart / Dejounte / White is an ideal fit. They're average shooters, hence they aren't great off-ball options. In any case, Smart fits the bill in my book, cause he's happy to play off the ball and he's literally the perfect fit in our switch-heavy defensive system. He's also a reliable ball handler, an underrated passer (especially in the PnR) and a respectable shooter.

Smart slows everything down and doesn't make good decisions. I would be fine with him starting if he was a better decision maker under pressure, and if he just made a conscious decision to get up court more quickly and keep the ball moving. But he hasn't ever really shown that.

Which is fine by me cause I actually want us to be a hard-nosed team which dictates the tempo of the game on both sides of the ball. No point in constantly running up and down the court. Two reasons for that:

1. Horford, Fournier and Tatum are crafty players who are better suited in a slow-paced game.
2. The majority of playoff games are won in the half court . I'm assuming the #1 goal is to win a championship, not to play entertaining basketball during the regular season.

I also disagree regarding Smart's decision making. Imo, he's a willing passer and a reliable PnR ball handler. To put it another way, he's a Point Guard. It ain't his fault that we've been mostly using him as an off-ball shooter. Obviously, his shot selection is an ongoing issue. That said, it would have been a way less noticeable problem if we were using him as a facilitator. Check out this stat:

Zero dribbles prior to a 3pt shot: 4.3 attempts per game
1 dribble: 0.8 attempts per game
2 dribbles: 0.3 attempts per game
3-6 dribbles: 0.5 attempts per game
7+ dribbles: 0.1 attempts per game

He's mostly attempting catch-and-shoot 3s. If you ask me, I bet CBS wanted him to take most of these 3s.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Murray shot 31% from 3 last year 5.4 assists

Smart shot 33%, 5.7 assists

Not really an upgrade.

Except Murray shot half the amount of threes Smart did, shot 5% better from the field, rebounds at double the rate, turns it over less, fouls less and played better defence last year.

Smart's true shooting %age was 54%. Murray's was 51%. TS% takes into account 3s, 2-point shoots, and free throws. (For reference, league average is around 58%.)

They were both pretty bad scoring the ball, but all things considered Murray was worse, and really really bad.

Smart's defense was off last year, and that is a legitimate concern. I do buy that last year was a very bad year for a lot of players, him included, and that he was also hurt a good part of the year. He's been a bulldog for a long time, and I think it's more likely he will be back next year.

Murray would never get 14.5 FGAs here, so I don't think it's particularly concerning. He'd be here for his passing, versatile defence (6'4" with a 6'10" wingspan), dribble penetration and rebounding. I also think that given Murray's mid-range game (47.2% between 16-24 feet) he could really improve in a lesser offensive role.

It would be great to have someone who could drive and dish. We currently have nobody on the team who is able to do so well.

Neither Smart or Pritchard offer that at PG. Fournier, Tatum and Jaylen are all currently secondary ball-handlers / creators rather than primary options.

How is Tatum our secondary shot creator? We run pretty much everything through him in the half court. Obviously, he ain't an elite facilitator, but he can definitely create shots for his teammates.

Personally speaking, I'd want us to start an oversized, pass-first PG who's happy to play off the ball on offense. Don't really care whether he can create his own shot. We already got 4 scoring options in our starting lineup in Tatum, Brown, Fournier and (to a lesser extent due to his age) Horford. In fact, I actually think we'd be better off with a PG who ain't looking to create his own shot. It would do wonders for our ball movement.

The way I see it, none of Smart / Dejounte / White is an ideal fit. They're average shooters, hence they aren't great off-ball options. In any case, Smart fits the bill in my book, cause he's happy to play off the ball and he's literally the perfect fit in our switch-heavy defensive system. He's also a reliable ball handler, an underrated passer (especially in the PnR) and a respectable shooter.

Smart slows everything down and doesn't make good decisions. I would be fine with him starting if he was a better decision maker under pressure, and if he just made a conscious decision to get up court more quickly and keep the ball moving. But he hasn't ever really shown that.

Which is fine by me cause I actually want us to be a hard-nosed team which dictates the tempo of the game on both sides of the ball. No point in constantly running up and down the court. Two reasons for that:

1. Horford, Fournier and Tatum are crafty players who are better suited in a slow-paced game.
2. The majority of playoff games are won in the half court . I'm assuming the #1 goal is to win a championship, not to play entertaining basketball during the regular season.

I also disagree regarding Smart's decision making. Imo, he's a willing passer and a reliable PnR ball handler. To put it another way, he's a Point Guard. It ain't his fault that we've been mostly using him as an off-ball shooter. Obviously, his shot selection is an ongoing issue. That said, it would have been a way less noticeable problem if we were using him as a facilitator. Check out this stat:

Zero dribbles prior to a 3pt shot: 4.3 attempts per game
1 dribble: 0.8 attempts per game
2 dribbles: 0.3 attempts per game
3-6 dribbles: 0.5 attempts per game
7+ dribbles: 0.1 attempts per game

He's mostly jacking up catch-and-shoot 3s. If you ask me, I bet CBS wanted him to take most of these 3s.

I generally agree with this, but the question is whether or not smart can be good enough in a slow-paced setting. He can control the game, but can he be good enough to win?

There’s also a lot to be said about general offensive efficiency and tempo. Generally, the faster you play the better your offense is, even in the playoffs. Playing with tempo also allows role players to be more effective and youth to use their advantages, particularly in the regular season. You see both those items at play with the Suns right now.

You have to be able to do both, but I’d like us to play with more tempo and then iso/two-man game when we need to slow things down.

[Who]

Murray shot 31% from 3 last year 5.4 assists

Smart shot 33%, 5.7 assists

Not really an upgrade.

Except Murray shot half the amount of threes Smart did, shot 5% better from the field, rebounds at double the rate, turns it over less, fouls less and played better defence last year.

Smart's true shooting %age was 54%. Murray's was 51%. TS% takes into account 3s, 2-point shoots, and free throws. (For reference, league average is around 58%.)

They were both pretty bad scoring the ball, but all things considered Murray was worse, and really really bad.

Smart's defense was off last year, and that is a legitimate concern. I do buy that last year was a very bad year for a lot of players, him included, and that he was also hurt a good part of the year. He's been a bulldog for a long time, and I think it's more likely he will be back next year.

Murray would never get 14.5 FGAs here, so I don't think it's particularly concerning. He'd be here for his passing, versatile defence (6'4" with a 6'10" wingspan), dribble penetration and rebounding. I also think that given Murray's mid-range game (47.2% between 16-24 feet) he could really improve in a lesser offensive role.

It would be great to have someone who could drive and dish. We currently have nobody on the team who is able to do so well.

Neither Smart or Pritchard offer that at PG. Fournier, Tatum and Jaylen are all currently secondary ball-handlers / creators rather than primary options.

How is Tatum our secondary shot creator? We run pretty much everything through him in the half court. Obviously, he ain't an elite facilitator, but he can definitely create shots for his teammates.

Personally speaking, I'd want us to start an oversized, pass-first PG who's happy to play off the ball on offense. Don't really care whether he can create his own shot. We already got 4 scoring options in our starting lineup in Tatum, Brown, Fournier and (to a lesser extent due to his age) Horford. In fact, I actually think we'd be better off with a PG who ain't looking to create his own shot. It would do wonders for our ball movement.

The way I see it, none of Smart / Dejounte / White is an ideal fit. They're average shooters, hence they aren't great off-ball options. In any case, Smart fits the bill in my book, cause he's happy to play off the ball and he's literally the perfect fit in our switch-heavy defensive system. He's also a reliable ball handler, an underrated passer (especially in the PnR) and a respectable shooter.

Sorry I wasn't clear.

I meant primary ball-handler / playmaker not primary option as in scorer / shot creator.

None of our team's players are geared to be a primary ball-handler / playmaker. Not Smart or Pritchard at PG. Nor Tatum, Jaylen or Fournier on the wing who are all secondary ball-handler / playmakers.

This team needs a better ball-handler. Someone with plus quickness who can drive into the paint and collapse some defenses. Help create easier shot opportunities for their teammates by pushing the ball, dribble penetration in the halfcourt and dishing.

Our team lacks that. It looks slow and stagnant. Too much happening 20-25 feet from the hoop (outside the defense). Needs someone who can get inside a defense and create from there.

[Ed Monix]

Sorry to burst the bubble, but Spurs won’t just give the Celtics Dejounte Murray because of our head coach.

R.C Buford & Pop are going to ask for Brown plain and simple because we don’t have any other significant assets they’d be after. To give up a player at his age, with his potential and on a long term deal, they will want more than dollar value.

[Roy H.]

Sorry to burst the bubble, but Spurs won’t just give the Celtics Dejounte Murray because of our head coach.

R.C Buford & Pop are going to ask for Brown plain and simple because we don’t have any other significant assets they’d be after. To give up a player at his age, with his potential and on a long term deal, they will want more than dollar value.

On what planet is Murray close to Brown?

I wouldn’t trade Brown for any combination of players on the Spurs roster.  Murray + White + Vassel + Poeltl + Johnson?  Hard pass.

Murray is basically Marcus Smart without the elite defense:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=smartma01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=murrade01&p2yrfrom=2021

Very similar in terms of efficiency and passing.

[Ed Monix]

Sorry to burst the bubble, but Spurs won’t just give the Celtics Dejounte Murray because of our head coach.

R.C Buford & Pop are going to ask for Brown plain and simple because we don’t have any other significant assets they’d be after. To give up a player at his age, with his potential and on a long term deal, they will want more than dollar value.

On what planet is Murray close to Brown?

I wouldn’t trade Brown for any combination of players on the Spurs roster.  Murray + White + Vassel + Poeltl + Johnson?  Hard pass.

Exactly lol I agree, they will ask but it doesn’t mean it will happen. What I’m saying is Murray isn’t coming here because the agreeable pieces aren’t available.

Off the top of my head, Magic could offer their 8th pick, Bamba & Fultz for Murray & White. That offer beats anything Boston would be willing to offer IMO.