If we keep the 14th pick

[gouki88]

What are people's opinions about Tyrese Maxey? I really think a guard is what we should be going for in this draft, someone to provide some punch behind Kemba and this draft seems strong in that area - I think we'll be able to pick up a good guard at 14. I think Wanamaker has given us great minutes but we could probably upgrade here. We need a bruising, banging center but I think one of our later picks can meet that need. And we have enough long, athletic wings in Tatum, Brown, and Langford. I love him but I think because of his size Waters will never be able to be a fixture in the NBA.

Anyway, I watched Maxey's shooting drill at the combine and the stroke looked great - the announcers were saying his release point in college was low but he's been working on it, and he was knocking them down all over the court. Watching him run he's clearly an athlete, and at 6'3 he's got size for the position. Was only a freshman last year, and Kentucky does tend to depress stats and usage because of all the talent. Lots of great players in the NBA now were kind of hidden away at Kentucky.

So what about Maxey?

Bumping this because man I wish we had Maxey.

This is what happens when a coach empowers a young player (Maxey) instead of stunting them (Pritchard).

Or Maxey as a 1 and done young player is just better than the very old Pritchard.  I think it bears repeating Pritchard is older than Tatum.  There is a reason he had to stay in college for 4 years and was still barely a 1st round pick after doing so.  Very very rarely do the 4 year college players amount to anything.  It does happen, but continually expecting Boston to end up with the exception rather than the rule is just not a good place to be.

I love the way you phrase things to fit your argument. "Had to" stay at Oregon. Lol.

Never change

[Moranis]

What are people's opinions about Tyrese Maxey? I really think a guard is what we should be going for in this draft, someone to provide some punch behind Kemba and this draft seems strong in that area - I think we'll be able to pick up a good guard at 14. I think Wanamaker has given us great minutes but we could probably upgrade here. We need a bruising, banging center but I think one of our later picks can meet that need. And we have enough long, athletic wings in Tatum, Brown, and Langford. I love him but I think because of his size Waters will never be able to be a fixture in the NBA.

Anyway, I watched Maxey's shooting drill at the combine and the stroke looked great - the announcers were saying his release point in college was low but he's been working on it, and he was knocking them down all over the court. Watching him run he's clearly an athlete, and at 6'3 he's got size for the position. Was only a freshman last year, and Kentucky does tend to depress stats and usage because of all the talent. Lots of great players in the NBA now were kind of hidden away at Kentucky.

So what about Maxey?

Bumping this because man I wish we had Maxey.

This is what happens when a coach empowers a young player (Maxey) instead of stunting them (Pritchard).

Or Maxey as a 1 and done young player is just better than the very old Pritchard.  I think it bears repeating Pritchard is older than Tatum.  There is a reason he had to stay in college for 4 years and was still barely a 1st round pick after doing so.  Very very rarely do the 4 year college players amount to anything.  It does happen, but continually expecting Boston to end up with the exception rather than the rule is just not a good place to be.

You and I were both in on Maledon, right?  There's somebody having a disappointing year.

Yeah if they went with a guard Maledon is the guy I liked the best though I would have preferred they just traded the pick.  But yeah, Maledon has been awful this year.  Still barely 20 though, which sets him way apart from Pritchard.

[Moranis]

What are people's opinions about Tyrese Maxey? I really think a guard is what we should be going for in this draft, someone to provide some punch behind Kemba and this draft seems strong in that area - I think we'll be able to pick up a good guard at 14. I think Wanamaker has given us great minutes but we could probably upgrade here. We need a bruising, banging center but I think one of our later picks can meet that need. And we have enough long, athletic wings in Tatum, Brown, and Langford. I love him but I think because of his size Waters will never be able to be a fixture in the NBA.

Anyway, I watched Maxey's shooting drill at the combine and the stroke looked great - the announcers were saying his release point in college was low but he's been working on it, and he was knocking them down all over the court. Watching him run he's clearly an athlete, and at 6'3 he's got size for the position. Was only a freshman last year, and Kentucky does tend to depress stats and usage because of all the talent. Lots of great players in the NBA now were kind of hidden away at Kentucky.

So what about Maxey?

Bumping this because man I wish we had Maxey.

This is what happens when a coach empowers a young player (Maxey) instead of stunting them (Pritchard).

Or Maxey as a 1 and done young player is just better than the very old Pritchard.  I think it bears repeating Pritchard is older than Tatum.  There is a reason he had to stay in college for 4 years and was still barely a 1st round pick after doing so.  Very very rarely do the 4 year college players amount to anything.  It does happen, but continually expecting Boston to end up with the exception rather than the rule is just not a good place to be.

I love the way you phrase things to fit your argument. "Had to" stay at Oregon. Lol.

Never change

well obviously he didn't have to stay at Oregon, but he wouldn't have been drafted had he come out earlier. 

Bane does seem to be an exception to this though.  He not only played well as an old rookie, but has improved as an old 2nd year guy. 

[hwangjini_1]

Ainge was poor at drafting talent..got a lot more wrong than right

as does every GM. on this board in a similar discussion we showed how teams such as San Antonio "missed" stars and top players and decent role players while taking inferior talent the majority of times.

ainge was fine at drafting talent, indeed, the measures and stats show him to have been above nba average.

[Moranis]

Ainge was poor at drafting talent..got a lot more wrong than right

as does every GM. on this board in a similar discussion we showed how teams such as San Antonio "missed" stars and top players and decent role players while taking inferior talent the majority of times.

ainge was fine at drafting talent, indeed, the measures and stats show him to have been above nba average.

Ainge is very hit or miss.  I think if you went back and analyzed if the player he drafted would go higher, lower, or about the same, you'd find in most cases the player would go lower in a redraft.  Obviously you need to weight the draft spot more on what is considered a hit or miss.  Early on in his tenure, Ainge was a lot better, but of late he has a lot more misses than hits, he did do quite well with the top 3 draft picks though and that matters far more than a guy at 25. 

[Celtics4ever]

The draft is a crap shoot, but Ainge has hit since Robert Williams and it is killing our depth...

[#1P4P]

Ainge has a great drafting track record relative to his peers.

The Ringer ran an article that quantified the best drafting teams since 2004, in relation to Draft Value (player’s actual performance) vs. Expectation (player’s expected performance based on draft position). The Celtics came in 4th: https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/28/22597310/nba-draft-expectations

[todd_days_41]

Ainge has a great drafting track record relative to his peers.

Hogwash

The Ringer ran an article that quantified the best drafting teams since 2004, in relation to Draft Value (player’s actual performance) vs. Expectation (player’s expected performance based on draft position). The Celtics came in 4th: https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/28/22597310/nba-draft-expectations

Article is deeply flawed. First example: Gerald Green is not even close to the "Most Below Expectation" pick Ainge made since 2004.

[todd_days_41]

The draft is a crap shoot

This is the knee jerk reaction of Boston sports fans, due to routing for teams that have generally been well run -- but below average draft managers -- for the last decade.

[Celtics2021]

Ainge has a great drafting track record relative to his peers.

Hogwash

The Ringer ran an article that quantified the best drafting teams since 2004, in relation to Draft Value (player’s actual performance) vs. Expectation (player’s expected performance based on draft position). The Celtics came in 4th: https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/28/22597310/nba-draft-expectations

Article is deeply flawed. First example: Gerald Green is not even close to the "Most Below Expectation" pick Ainge made since 2004.

I agree the methodology is flawed.  To enlighten those, a major issue is that Fab Melo is obviously the most below-expectation pick.  We all know that.  However, the Ringer is using wins above replacement in a player’s first four years as its metric, which is a counting stat.  So a guy like Gerald Green, who was legitimately not good in his first four years (and even bounced out of the league for a bit after they were over) but who got fair amount of minutes due to being on rebuilding teams will have a very bad (negative) WAR.  But a Fab Melo, who couldn’t even see the court and was out of the league after a season, will have a better WAR.  Still negative, but less negative because you can only get so low with 36 career minutes.

That said, the methodology is flawed the same way for all teams, and over 17 drafts most teams are going to have their share of Gerald Greens who have bad performance with significant minutes, and Fab Melos, who have worse performances in virtually no minutes.  Accordingly, while flawed, it may not introduce a large bias if it affects all teams in similar ways.

A point in Ainge’s favor: the Celtics had an opening day lineup comprised of entirely their own first round selections.  They were the only team to have done so this year, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that isn’t something that happens most years.  Yes, Horford was out which bumped Grant into the starting lineup, but all the same, they were able to field a competitive lineup featuring 5 firsts selected by the team.  Additionally, 6 of the 9 players in our core rotation are former Ainge firsts.  A lot of teams did worse than the Celtics over the years.

[CFAN38]

this is a crazy draft to start looking back at because as fans we had so much time with this class. Covid pushing back this draft and the general lack of things to do caused me to dive deeper into this draft then I ever had.

Looking at my tiered top 15 I had


1   LaMelo Ball
   
   TIER 2
2   Anthony Edwards
   
   TIER 3
3   Killian Hayes
4   James Wiseman
5   Isaac Okoro
6   Onyeka Okongwu
7   Deni Avdija
   
8   TIER 4
9   RJ Hampton
10   Cole Anthony
11   Tyrese Maxey
12   Tyrese Haliburton
13   Devin Vassell
14   Josh Green
15   Patrick Williams

its still early but over all im pretty happy with my Tiers. Hayes I had ranked to high (I blame the influence of KOC). I also expected more out of Josh Green. Other then that I think I did pretty well.

As for the #14 pick without going back and reading my posts I was hoping to the Cs would land a future starting caliber player at #14. I had Maxey #12 in my mock, Hampton #13, and Anthony going to the Cs at #14. My ideal was to land one of those 3 guards at #14 then Bane and/or Tillman in the late first. Fully understanding that one of those picks would likely be traded. After Hampton,Maxey, Anthony, Lewis Jr , and Terry (missed with those last two) I had every other pg sized player including Pritchard regulated to the 2nd round. This was a product of their positional value. I used the logic that a backup PG isn't worth a 1st as they can be picked up as cheap FAs.

hindsight is what it is but this class looks like a missed opportunity to lock in a starting PG in either Maxey or Anthony.     

[footey]

this is a crazy draft to start looking back at because as fans we had so much time with this class. Covid pushing back this draft and the general lack of things to do caused me to dive deeper into this draft then I ever had.

Looking at my tiered top 15 I had


1   LaMelo Ball
   
   TIER 2
2   Anthony Edwards
   
   TIER 3
3   Killian Hayes
4   James Wiseman
5   Isaac Okoro
6   Onyeka Okongwu
7   Deni Avdija
   
8   TIER 4
9   RJ Hampton
10   Cole Anthony
11   Tyrese Maxey
12   Tyrese Haliburton
13   Devin Vassell
14   Josh Green
15   Patrick Williams

its still early but over all im pretty happy with my Tiers. Hayes I had ranked to high (I blame the influence of KOC). I also expected more out of Josh Green. Other then that I think I did pretty well.

As for the #14 pick without going back and reading my posts I was hoping to the Cs would land a future starting caliber player at #14. I had Maxey #12 in my mock, Hampton #13, and Anthony going to the Cs at #14. My ideal was to land one of those 3 guards at #14 then Bane and/or Tillman in the late first. Fully understanding that one of those picks would likely be traded. After Hampton,Maxey, Anthony, Lewis Jr , and Terry (missed with those last two) I had every other pg sized player including Pritchard regulated to the 2nd round. This was a product of their positional value. I used the logic that a backup PG isn't worth a 1st as they can be picked up as cheap FAs.

hindsight is what it is but this class looks like a missed opportunity to lock in a starting PG in either Maxey or Anthony.     

Going into the draft, Max Carlin was very high on Maxey, said he would fit very well into Celtics scheme because of his ability to get to the hoop.  Looks like he was right.

I haven't given up on Nesmith yet, but seems like, today, Maxey would have been the better get for our team needs.

[Csfan1984]

Maxey is treated and develop like Carson Edwards here. Too many guards in his development way. Just ask PP and Langford.

[td450]

this is a crazy draft to start looking back at because as fans we had so much time with this class. Covid pushing back this draft and the general lack of things to do caused me to dive deeper into this draft then I ever had.

Looking at my tiered top 15 I had


1   LaMelo Ball
   
   TIER 2
2   Anthony Edwards
   
   TIER 3
3   Killian Hayes
4   James Wiseman
5   Isaac Okoro
6   Onyeka Okongwu
7   Deni Avdija
   
8   TIER 4
9   RJ Hampton
10   Cole Anthony
11   Tyrese Maxey
12   Tyrese Haliburton
13   Devin Vassell
14   Josh Green
15   Patrick Williams

its still early but over all im pretty happy with my Tiers. Hayes I had ranked to high (I blame the influence of KOC). I also expected more out of Josh Green. Other then that I think I did pretty well.

As for the #14 pick without going back and reading my posts I was hoping to the Cs would land a future starting caliber player at #14. I had Maxey #12 in my mock, Hampton #13, and Anthony going to the Cs at #14. My ideal was to land one of those 3 guards at #14 then Bane and/or Tillman in the late first. Fully understanding that one of those picks would likely be traded. After Hampton,Maxey, Anthony, Lewis Jr , and Terry (missed with those last two) I had every other pg sized player including Pritchard regulated to the 2nd round. This was a product of their positional value. I used the logic that a backup PG isn't worth a 1st as they can be picked up as cheap FAs.

hindsight is what it is but this class looks like a missed opportunity to lock in a starting PG in either Maxey or Anthony.     

Both of those guys are going to be score first PGs. We need playmaking and pace. Shroder is here and gives us a solid version of that.

The only miss was stretching for Halliburton or Okongwu, and those two aren't sure things yet either. Halliburton hasn't started well this year, and Okongwu has shown some intriguing flashes but has been hurt a lot.

[gouki88]

Maxey is treated and develop like Carson Edwards here. Too many guards in his development way. Just ask PP and Langford.

Maxey is a 36MPG starter?