Author Topic: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton  (Read 12071 times)

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Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2019, 10:23:59 AM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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2 years of Kyrie
Easy decision for me too.

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2019, 11:19:56 AM »

Offline gpap

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Just took a look at the 2018 draft.

I think Ainge drafts one of the Bridges, Knox or SGA.

Sexton wasn't a very good choice and would think that's not who Ainge would've selected.

The 2018 draft really wasn't a good one beyond the top 4.

Bamba is still a project, Carter is okay but undersized for a center and injured. Trae Young is pretty good but not exactly can't miss either.

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2019, 12:02:15 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.
But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.
Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.
Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.
Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players
Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2019, 12:18:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.
But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.
Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.
Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.
Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players
Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.
Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2019, 12:41:48 PM »

Offline td450

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Just took a look at the 2018 draft.

I think Ainge drafts one of the Bridges, Knox or SGA.

Sexton wasn't a very good choice and would think that's not who Ainge would've selected.

The 2018 draft really wasn't a good one beyond the top 4.

Bamba is still a project, Carter is okay but undersized for a center and injured. Trae Young is pretty good but not exactly can't miss either.

Carter is 6'10 255 lbs and has a 7'5 wingspan. He is injured but should be ready for training camp. The opportunities to get bigs with complete two way games are rare. He's also got the intellect, work ethic and attitude you want. It was one of Ainge's biggest mistakes not to get him. 


Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2019, 12:54:08 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.
But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.
Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.
Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.
Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players
Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.
Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.
Wish you guys were right but you're not. You guys are seriously overvaluing Kemba. Wonder how you guys saw him before he was a C's target and eventual player. Is there a chance you guys are projecting a little bit of C's love into you evaluation of Kemba today?

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2019, 01:18:34 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.
But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.
Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.
Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.
Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players
Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.
Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.
Wish you guys were right but you're not. You guys are seriously overvaluing Kemba. Wonder how you guys saw him before he was a C's target and eventual player. Is there a chance you guys are projecting a little bit of C's love into you evaluation of Kemba today?
I have always thought highly of Kemba. I have always considered him in the Kyrie/Lillard tier of PGs just below Steph/Harden. Top 5-6 PG in the league.

Sexton is awful. The stats show it. The eye test shows it. There most likely isn't a professional in the entire NBA that wouldn't have Kemba as being better than Sexton

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2019, 01:19:02 PM »

Offline byennie

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Wish you guys were right but you're not. You guys are seriously overvaluing Kemba. Wonder how you guys saw him before he was a C's target and eventual player. Is there a chance you guys are projecting a little bit of C's love into you evaluation of Kemba today?

It doesn't require bias to see that Walker is currently superior to Sexton in practically every phase of the game. He's a more efficient scorer with higher usage, has twice the assist rate, twice the steal rate, better defender, better leader, etc, etc.

The only argument for Sexton is based on projected potential, since Kemba is in his prime and Sexton is coming off his rookie year. As of last year, though, it's not close.

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2019, 01:22:08 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Wish you guys were right but you're not. You guys are seriously overvaluing Kemba. Wonder how you guys saw him before he was a C's target and eventual player. Is there a chance you guys are projecting a little bit of C's love into you evaluation of Kemba today?

It doesn't require bias to see that Walker is currently superior to Sexton in practically every phase of the game. He's a more efficient scorer with higher usage, has twice the assist rate, twice the steal rate, better defender, better leader, etc, etc.

The only argument for Sexton is based on projected potential, since Kemba is in his prime and Sexton is coming off his rookie year. As of last year, though, it's not close.

Yea I mean this is like WCS is as good Gobert. It is just absurd. Everyone on here would have said the same thing last year when he was on a Charlotte.

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2019, 01:25:40 PM »

Offline gpap

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Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.
But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.
Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.
Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.
Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players
Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.
Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.
Wish you guys were right but you're not. You guys are seriously overvaluing Kemba. Wonder how you guys saw him before he was a C's target and eventual player. Is there a chance you guys are projecting a little bit of C's love into you evaluation of Kemba today?

In my opinion, you're wrong about Kemba. That simple. He's a great player and by all accounts (including his former coach in Charlotte) he's a great teammate and great player to coach.

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2019, 08:06:04 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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 I really hope Kemba on this team proves me wrong but I have watched the guy a long time and he has never impressed me with the Hornets. Never did I say he is a great player and a star. He was an above average Pg in the league to me, that's it. So if I stick to how I always saw Kemba despite now being a C and Sexton is a very average player I feel it's okay to say Kemba is marginally better. People call Sexton inefficient but let me point to Kemba's fg% numbers who we gave a max. I also point to the usage and team for the overall bump in stats in which Kemba had more of an advantage with over Sexton. Also note never said equal or better, know how some love to try and make a discussion about something they misinterpreted from another person's comments.

I made sure to watch Sexton as much as possible last year because I wanted to see what became of the pick/deal for the Cavs. Sexton was decent and for me, I would rather of had him in his early 20's with us even now than the Irving failure and then Kemba max deal. The whole forum can disagree with me but that's my stance on the whole thing. Kemba is better but it's not as big a gap as many think.

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2019, 08:24:06 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I really hope Kemba on this team proves me wrong but I have watched the guy a long time and he has never impressed me with the Hornets. Never did I say he is a great player and a star. He was an above average Pg in the league to me, that's it. So if I stick to how I always saw Kemba despite now being a C and Sexton is a very average player I feel it's okay to say Kemba is marginally better. People call Sexton inefficient but let me point to Kemba's fg% numbers who we gave a max. I also point to the usage and team for the overall bump in stats in which Kemba had more of an advantage with over Sexton. Also note never said equal or better, know how some love to try and make a discussion about something they misinterpreted from another person's comments.

I made sure to watch Sexton as much as possible last year because I wanted to see what became of the pick/deal for the Cavs. Sexton was decent and for me, I would rather of had him in his early 20's with us even now than the Irving failure and then Kemba max deal. The whole forum can disagree with me but that's my stance on the whole thing. Kemba is better but it's not as big a gap as many think.
The next 4 years won't treat this take kindly
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2019, 08:24:27 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.
But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.
Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.
Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.
Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players
Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.
Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.
Wish you guys were right but you're not. You guys are seriously overvaluing Kemba. Wonder how you guys saw him before he was a C's target and eventual player. Is there a chance you guys are projecting a little bit of C's love into you evaluation of Kemba today?

Wish you were right so its not embarassing but you are just flat out wrong. There were a couple of trade Kemba for Kyrie posts in the season, esp after he scored 60 on the sixers. I for one didn't want him to be acquired by the lakers before. A marginally better Sexton wouldnt be all-nba. I doubt he'd even be an all-star.

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2019, 08:45:47 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I really hope Kemba on this team proves me wrong but I have watched the guy a long time and he has never impressed me with the Hornets. Never did I say he is a great player and a star. He was an above average Pg in the league to me, that's it. So if I stick to how I always saw Kemba despite now being a C and Sexton is a very average player I feel it's okay to say Kemba is marginally better. People call Sexton inefficient but let me point to Kemba's fg% numbers who we gave a max. I also point to the usage and team for the overall bump in stats in which Kemba had more of an advantage with over Sexton. Also note never said equal or better, know how some love to try and make a discussion about something they misinterpreted from another person's comments.

I made sure to watch Sexton as much as possible last year because I wanted to see what became of the pick/deal for the Cavs. Sexton was decent and for me, I would rather of had him in his early 20's with us even now than the Irving failure and then Kemba max deal. The whole forum can disagree with me but that's my stance on the whole thing. Kemba is better but it's not as big a gap as many think.
The next 4 years won't treat this take kindly
As I said I hope I am wrong.

Re: Would you rather have 2 years of Kyrie or Collin Sexton
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2019, 08:50:06 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Sexton because there wouldn't have been regression on this team or a need to keep guys like Rozier and Morris. Irving set the team back.
But Sexton is a very average player

Yes he is and we just gave a player who is marginally better a 4 year max contract.
Rofl. Completely off talent assessment. Please tell me what exactly is marginal about the difference between a 3x All-Star & All-NBA point guard vs a guy who put up a very inefficient 17PPG on one of the worst teams in the league, who also can't pass?

This is one of the most laughably wrong comparisons I've seen here in a while. Not quite Tacko = Wilt, but it's bad.
Take a look at the numbers not the awards. They are clearly closer than you think.
Ah yes, I forgot basketball is in fact all about stats! Silly me. Even if you were right and the stats were close (which they aren't) it wouldn't tell the story. Kemba nearly willed what is frankly a garbage roster to the playoffs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players
Like the Cavs aren't a bad team.

Look at that usage rate and fg%. Sexton would score just as much and nearly as many ast with that usage.

Sorry man, I am with Gouki, this is a really really bad take. It is not even in the ballpark of reasonable. Probably best to just let it go. No offense.
Gotta agree.
 
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kemba+Walker&player_id1_select=Kemba+Walker&y1=2019&player_id1=walkeke02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Collin+Sexton&player_id2_select=Collin+Sexton&y2=2019&player_id2=sextoco01&idx=players

Here is the stat comparison. It's not even close. Evening things out with per36 numbers and Kemba is scoring over 7 PPG more and had double the amount of assists and steals and 4 times more blocks while shooting much better overall with TS% of 4 percentage points higher.

Then you add in the intangibles like proven experience, playoff experience, clutchness, leadership, accolades, and overall talent and you can easily see Sexton isn't anywhere close to being on Kemba's level.
Wish you guys were right but you're not. You guys are seriously overvaluing Kemba. Wonder how you guys saw him before he was a C's target and eventual player. Is there a chance you guys are projecting a little bit of C's love into you evaluation of Kemba today?

Wish you were right so its not embarassing but you are just flat out wrong. There were a couple of trade Kemba for Kyrie posts in the season, esp after he scored 60 on the sixers. I for one didn't want him to be acquired by the lakers before. A marginally better Sexton wouldnt be all-nba. I doubt he'd even be an all-star.
Really, enough with the awards. Irving was first team All NBA and supposedly the reason why this team failed.