NFL Superbowl LV Thread

[Moranis]

There are only a handful of players in any professional sport that have won titles as even arguably the best (or most important) player for at least two different franchises. 

Tom Brady and Lebron James are the obvious 2, but there aren't any clear cut for sure thing others.

In basketball, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, and Kawhi all arguably fit that mold (clearly the best player for 1 franchise, but arguable for the other).  I'd probably count the first 3, but would still rate Duncan as better (and certainly more important) than Kawhi, despite Kawhi winning Finals MVP that season for the Spurs (Parker was also arguably better as well). 

In football, arguably you also have Peyton though he was basically benched in Denver before retaking the starting job and winning the title that year.  I'd probably count Peyton, though Von Miller was certainly a monster on defense and Peyton quite simply wasn't that good that year.

The only person you could argue in the NHL is Patrick Roy who won 2 titles with Montreal and 2 titles with Colorado, and since the goaltender is so important, I think I'd count him (though Sakic and Forsberg were both great players in Colorado).  The best position player to win with 2 franchises is Messier, but there isn't an argument at all that he was better than Gretzky in Edmonton. 

All of the great MLB players have all basically only won titles with 1 franchise. 

So in the history of the four major professional sports, Tom Brady has now joined Lebron James, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Patrick Roy, and Peyton Manning as the best and/or most important player on a title winning team for 2 different franchises.  Pretty good company to be in. 

[Donoghus]

There are only a handful of players in any professional sport that have won titles as even arguably the best (or most important) player for at least two different franchises. 

Tom Brady and Lebron James are the obvious 2, but there aren't any clear cut for sure thing others.

In basketball, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, and Kawhi all arguably fit that mold (clearly the best player for 1 franchise, but arguable for the other).  I'd probably count the first 3, but would still rate Duncan as better (and certainly more important) than Kawhi, despite Kawhi winning Finals MVP that season for the Spurs (Parker was also arguably better as well). 

In football, arguably you also have Peyton though he was basically benched in Denver before retaking the starting job and winning the title that year.  I'd probably count Peyton, though Von Miller was certainly a monster on defense and Peyton quite simply wasn't that good that year.

The only person you could argue in the NHL is Patrick Roy who won 2 titles with Montreal and 2 titles with Colorado, and since the goaltender is so important, I think I'd count him (though Sakic and Forsberg were both great players in Colorado).  The best position player to win with 2 franchises is Messier, but there isn't an argument at all that he was better than Gretzky in Edmonton. 

All of the great MLB players have all basically only won titles with 1 franchise. 

So in the history of the four major professional sports, Tom Brady has now joined Lebron James, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Patrick Roy, and Peyton Manning as the best and/or most important player on a title winning team for 2 different franchises.  Pretty good company to be in.

Not bad for a guy you were trashing back in November.

[RPGenerate]

There are only a handful of players in any professional sport that have won titles as even arguably the best (or most important) player for at least two different franchises. 

Tom Brady and Lebron James are the obvious 2, but there aren't any clear cut for sure thing others.

In basketball, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, and Kawhi all arguably fit that mold (clearly the best player for 1 franchise, but arguable for the other).  I'd probably count the first 3, but would still rate Duncan as better (and certainly more important) than Kawhi, despite Kawhi winning Finals MVP that season for the Spurs (Parker was also arguably better as well). 

In football, arguably you also have Peyton though he was basically benched in Denver before retaking the starting job and winning the title that year.  I'd probably count Peyton, though Von Miller was certainly a monster on defense and Peyton quite simply wasn't that good that year.

The only person you could argue in the NHL is Patrick Roy who won 2 titles with Montreal and 2 titles with Colorado, and since the goaltender is so important, I think I'd count him (though Sakic and Forsberg were both great players in Colorado).  The best position player to win with 2 franchises is Messier, but there isn't an argument at all that he was better than Gretzky in Edmonton. 

All of the great MLB players have all basically only won titles with 1 franchise. 

So in the history of the four major professional sports, Tom Brady has now joined Lebron James, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Patrick Roy, and Peyton Manning as the best and/or most important player on a title winning team for 2 different franchises.  Pretty good company to be in.

Not bad for a guy you were trashing back in November.

haha yeah. Many people were trashing Brady when they were at 7-5. Most people won't admit that though. They'll just move the goalpost to "Brady was carried by a stacked roster!!!"

[Roy H.]

All of the great MLB players have all basically only won titles with 1 franchise. 

Eh?



7 titles, GOAT.

[JBcat]

All of the great MLB players have all basically only won titles with 1 franchise. 

Eh?

What about Mookie Betts too?!?!?

[Roy H.]

All of the great MLB players have all basically only won titles with 1 franchise. 

Eh?

What about Mookie Betts too?!?!?

Reggie Jackson? Tris Speaker?

[ChillyWilly]

Pele won everywhere he went including in North America.

Rocky Marciano only won the title once but that's because once he got it no one could take it from him.

Serena Williams has so many Major titles they stopped counting.

Tom is great. Probably greatest football player ever. G.O.A.T? Nah

[Donoghus]

Pele won everywhere he went including in North America.

Rocky Marciano only won the title once but that's because once he got it no one could take it from him.

Serena Williams has so many Major titles they stopped counting.

Tom is great. Probably greatest football player ever. G.O.A.T? Nah

I think there really needs to be differentiation between team sports and individual sports. 

Put Ali, Serena, Marciano, Tiger etc... in one bucket.

Put Ruth, Brady, Jordan, Gretzky, Pele, etc.... in another bucket. 

[Roy H.]

Pele won everywhere he went including in North America.

Rocky Marciano only won the title once but that's because once he got it no one could take it from him.

Serena Williams has so many Major titles they stopped counting.

Tom is great. Probably greatest football player ever. G.O.A.T? Nah

I think there really needs to be differentiation between team sports and individual sports. 

Put Ali, Serena, Marciano, Tiger etc... in one bucket.

Put Ruth, Brady, Jordan, Gretzky, Pele, etc.... in another bucket.

Agreed.  In terms of individual sports...  Michael Phelps?  He dominated for a long time, across several distinct disciplines. I’m not sure that we’ve seen anything like it.

For team sports, I lean toward Ruth.  It’s the pitching ability that puts him over the top for me. It would be like if Gretzky was also an elite goalie every fourth game, or if Brady was an All-Pro safety.

[Donoghus]

Pele won everywhere he went including in North America.

Rocky Marciano only won the title once but that's because once he got it no one could take it from him.

Serena Williams has so many Major titles they stopped counting.

Tom is great. Probably greatest football player ever. G.O.A.T? Nah

I think there really needs to be differentiation between team sports and individual sports. 

Put Ali, Serena, Marciano, Tiger etc... in one bucket.

Put Ruth, Brady, Jordan, Gretzky, Pele, etc.... in another bucket.

Agreed.  In terms of individual sports...  Michael Phelps?  He dominated for a long time, across several distinct disciplines. I’m not sure that we’ve seen anything like it.

For team sports, I lean toward Ruth.  It’s the pitching ability that puts him over the top for me. It would be like if Gretzky was also an elite goalie every fourth game, or if Brady was an All-Pro safety.

 

Phelps definitely should be in the discussion.  It's tough with some Olympians, oftentimes, you're getting a quick snapshot of them in a two week moment or peak. 

What people like Serena & Ali accomplished were across multiple decades. 

How the heck do you even weigh it?

[kraidstar]

Rob Parker was unironically comparing Brady To Horry on the radio yesterday. According to him losing in the superbowl is also a mark against Brady. I guess being #2 in an NFL season is somehow worse than losing earlier in the playoffs or missing them altogether.

[kraidstar]

All of the great MLB players have all basically only won titles with 1 franchise. 

Eh?

What about Mookie Betts too?!?!?

Reggie Jackson? Tris Speaker?

Curt Schilling... a Hall of Fame-level talent (if you put his stats in context to the hitter-friendly PED era), though he has likely tweeted his way out of the HOF.

But yeah, Ruth is a good one. Three of Ruth's seven titles came with the Sox, two of them as a cornerstone pitcher. It's odd that he is not more revered in Boston for his achievements here.

[footey]

There are only a handful of players in any professional sport that have won titles as even arguably the best (or most important) player for at least two different franchises. 

Tom Brady and Lebron James are the obvious 2, but there aren't any clear cut for sure thing others.

In basketball, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, and Kawhi all arguably fit that mold (clearly the best player for 1 franchise, but arguable for the other).  I'd probably count the first 3, but would still rate Duncan as better (and certainly more important) than Kawhi, despite Kawhi winning Finals MVP that season for the Spurs (Parker was also arguably better as well). 

In football, arguably you also have Peyton though he was basically benched in Denver before retaking the starting job and winning the title that year.  I'd probably count Peyton, though Von Miller was certainly a monster on defense and Peyton quite simply wasn't that good that year.

The only person you could argue in the NHL is Patrick Roy who won 2 titles with Montreal and 2 titles with Colorado, and since the goaltender is so important, I think I'd count him (though Sakic and Forsberg were both great players in Colorado).  The best position player to win with 2 franchises is Messier, but there isn't an argument at all that he was better than Gretzky in Edmonton. 

All of the great MLB players have all basically only won titles with 1 franchise. 

So in the history of the four major professional sports, Tom Brady has now joined Lebron James, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Patrick Roy, and Peyton Manning as the best and/or most important player on a title winning team for 2 different franchises.  Pretty good company to be in.

Faint praise.  Brady has surpassed those other guys as a champion several times over.  Lebron is the only valid comparison, and this assumes he wins more championships; I think he will. Wilt was probably the 3rd best player on that 1972 Laker championship; Jerry West and (iirc) Gail Goodrich were more valuable. Kareem took back seat to Magic for those Laker championships (and later to Worthy as well). Shaq was second fiddle to Wade in the Miami championship. And Peyton "wasn't that good" that year? What you mean is that he was terrible. 

[Moranis]

There are only a handful of players in any professional sport that have won titles as even arguably the best (or most important) player for at least two different franchises. 

Tom Brady and Lebron James are the obvious 2, but there aren't any clear cut for sure thing others.

In basketball, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, and Kawhi all arguably fit that mold (clearly the best player for 1 franchise, but arguable for the other).  I'd probably count the first 3, but would still rate Duncan as better (and certainly more important) than Kawhi, despite Kawhi winning Finals MVP that season for the Spurs (Parker was also arguably better as well). 

In football, arguably you also have Peyton though he was basically benched in Denver before retaking the starting job and winning the title that year.  I'd probably count Peyton, though Von Miller was certainly a monster on defense and Peyton quite simply wasn't that good that year.

The only person you could argue in the NHL is Patrick Roy who won 2 titles with Montreal and 2 titles with Colorado, and since the goaltender is so important, I think I'd count him (though Sakic and Forsberg were both great players in Colorado).  The best position player to win with 2 franchises is Messier, but there isn't an argument at all that he was better than Gretzky in Edmonton. 

All of the great MLB players have all basically only won titles with 1 franchise. 

So in the history of the four major professional sports, Tom Brady has now joined Lebron James, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Patrick Roy, and Peyton Manning as the best and/or most important player on a title winning team for 2 different franchises.  Pretty good company to be in.

Not bad for a guy you were trashing back in November.

Oh yeah, this year was a surprise.  I guess he really wasn't happy in New England and when you aren't happy you don't really give it your all.  There was a definite downward trend the last few seasons in New England.  That  not only stopped this year but went the other way.  Remarkable season from Brady. 

[kraidstar]

Rewatched the Super Bowl last night.

My takeaways:

1. The Bucs defense was truly great. Mahomes had no time to throw, and their receivers were under incredible duress all game long, which helped force a few drops.

2. The officiating was not nearly as bad as some are saying. The only legit phantom call was the one on the tipped Brady INT that was reversed. But even that play should have only cost them 3 points. The Chiefs stupidly lined up 2 guys offsides on the FGA. Most of the non-holding/PI calls didn't impact he score.

3. And the Chiefs secondary were indeed holding all game long. Romo called it early and said it again and again. They like to intercept a receiver, quickly wrap him up, then let him go, disrupting the timing of the route. This is exactly what happened on the PI at the back of the endzone at the end of the first half. And on the aforementioned reversed INT play, the defender was on the brink of doing the same thing, except he realized the play was going elsewhere and took his hands off the receiver's hips.

4. Brady played an intelligent, disciplined game. He made a few off-target throws, but otherwise managed the game well and took advantage of KC mistakes. The Bucs in general looked more composed. The Chiefs panicked once they realized the Bucs weren't going to fold like the Bills.

5. Mahomes got a taste for what it is like being Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, or Russell Wilson, when you're playing an opposing team whose talent is just flat-out better than yours. It can make the best player look silly. The media has anointed this guy, assuming it will always be as easy for him as it has been his first few years. Except that he has played on a stacked team, and that talent level is about to drop along with the salary cap and due to Mahomes' exploding cap hit. Welcome to the big boys' table, Patrick.

6. The game was pretty boring. Tom looked happy to win, but in some ways it felt routine. Another day at the office. It's not just bluster, Brady really expects championships, which is insane.