The unspoken "real" issue with these celtics...

[cman88]

I see alot of threads where we talk about coaching changes from Ime to Joe, or talent upgrades etc.

But honestly the real issue with this celtics team is just how unserious they are. This was an issue now for 3 coaches. Brad, Ime and Joe.

This team has had the talent to win the last 2 years. But they come out so unserious. especially after a win, they'll come out and act as if the other team is going to give up play lazy defense/offense get down 20 points, make a run to get it close and lose. then give effort, win the next game and the cycle continues.

I commend them for fighting once their back is against the wall. But do we win a championship in 2022 if we don't "play around" with milwaukee/miami going 7 games each? do we win against Miami this year if we don't let atlanta go to 6, sixers go to 7 and then go behind 0-3 to Miami.

Brad's trying anything for a change to that and I commend him. bringing in cassel/lee and shaking up the core and bringing in KP. But if this effort in the playoffs doesn't change, i'm not sure much will. I'm hoping (and I think brad is too) that its a maturity thing. Guys generally don't win in this league until they are around 27. Curry, Jocic, Lebron etc. never won chips until that age. and Tatum/Brown are just entering it.  and hopefully now after a few heartbreaking losses they've matured enough to realize they can't just waltz their way to a ring on talent alone.

[boscel33]

Many here have been saying this all along.  The play with no sense of urgency and just float along at times.  How does a team with this much talent go sub-500 at home in the playoffs?  #brutal

[Roy H.]

Many here have been saying this all along.  The play with no sense of urgency and just float along at times.  How does a team with this much talent go sub-500 at home in the playoffs?  #brutal

That's the big mystery.  It's one reason I'm not as sad to see Smart go as others.  He, more than maybe anybody else, clearly went through the motions on defense and played lazy offense on some nights, as opposed to being hyper-focused on D and and being a floor general on others. 

And the thing with Smart was, we've seen what he can do when he buys in.  I think that's one of the reasons I prefer Ime to Joe or the last couple years of Brad:  he got players to buy in consistently.  They were still prone to stupid turnovers and bad decisions, but at least the focus and the effort was there.  Again, starting with Marcus.

[cman88]

Many here have been saying this all along.  The play with no sense of urgency and just float along at times.  How does a team with this much talent go sub-500 at home in the playoffs?  #brutal

That's the big mystery.  It's one reason I'm not as sad to see Smart go as others.  He, more than maybe anybody else, clearly went through the motions on defense and played lazy offense on some nights, as opposed to being hyper-focused on D and and being a floor general on others. 

And the thing with Smart was, we've seen what he can do when he buys in.  I think that's one of the reasons I prefer Ime to Joe or the last couple years of Brad:  he got players to buy in consistently.  They were still prone to stupid turnovers and bad decisions, but at least the focus and the effort was there.  Again, starting with Marcus.

see, I just don't buy that narrative with Ime. we still had lapses of of effort all playoffs with him. I remember fans complaining at times. and it was same thing. loss, win, loss, win, loss, win. we got punched in the face game 1 both series against Milwaukee and Miami. Tatum had to pull a win in milwaukee to make it to game 7 and we nearly blew game 7 against Miami after we were up 3-2 in that series.

 

[Vermont Green]

They were saying all this about Denver, even just 3 months ago.  Denver couldn't win in the playoffs, regular season team only, soft on defense, and so on.  A lot has to go right to win a title.  All this is true until it isn't true.  I don't know if this Celtics core will win a title or not, but I think they are going to.  This is a very young core.  Other than Magic Johnson winning a title his rookie year, most players or core teams take a few tries before they win it all.

Ime did not get the team over the top in his one season run at it, and he had everything the way it is supposed to be.  Hired as coach in the summer, bring in the assistants you want.  Get everything ready for the start of preseason....  Last season, Mazzulla was thrust into the role after a scandal, very late in the off season, worked with inherited assistants....  I think all of this did lead to some team or chemistry issues.

This team looks really good this season.  I think it is premature to come to any conclusions about how unserious they are or will be this season.  I have been critical of Tatum at times about posing after shots and that kind of thing.  Not sure if that is part of the unseriousness.  For the most part though, this team plays hard and I think will be very serious about winning a title this season.  It is no given though, winning a title is a long physical and emotional marathon.

[Donoghus]

I do think most of this team's issues are mental.  Certainly lack of focus, hesitation, lack of urgency, and inability at times to go for the kill shot. 

Talent-wise, they're there.  I think the vast majority of the inability to get over the top so far has been the mentality of the players and the coaching and much less on lack of talent.

[footey]

I think the stars have to trust their teammates more, work them into the sets more, especially in 4th quarters.  Too much hero ball.  Treat them like decoys. 

[Moranis]

Boston lost series the last 2 seasons it could (maybe should) have won, however Boston also won series in each of those playoffs where the best player on the floor was on the other team and who arguably were also more talented in the top 5 or 6 players. And the Warriors also had the best player in that series.

This board has fallen hard on the false media narrative that the Celts are the deepest and most talented team in the sport.  It is nonsense and always has been.

[johnnygreen]

A lot of players have come and gone over the last few years, with essentially the exception of Jayson, Jaylen, and Smart. Yet, the same issues seem to persist. This is one of the reasons why I thought either Marcus or Jaylen needed to be traded this off season. The personalities of your best players can effect the rest of the team. With that in mind, Jayson and Jaylen need to flip a switch in two key areas.

1. No matter how talented their opponent is, they are never entitled to winning on any night. This team seems to constantly blow leads or not take teams seriously.

2. I do believe Jayson and Jaylen want to win. However, what's holding them back is not hating to lose. They need to hate losing more than wanting to win.

[Roy H.]

Many here have been saying this all along.  The play with no sense of urgency and just float along at times.  How does a team with this much talent go sub-500 at home in the playoffs?  #brutal

That's the big mystery.  It's one reason I'm not as sad to see Smart go as others.  He, more than maybe anybody else, clearly went through the motions on defense and played lazy offense on some nights, as opposed to being hyper-focused on D and and being a floor general on others. 

And the thing with Smart was, we've seen what he can do when he buys in.  I think that's one of the reasons I prefer Ime to Joe or the last couple years of Brad:  he got players to buy in consistently.  They were still prone to stupid turnovers and bad decisions, but at least the focus and the effort was there.  Again, starting with Marcus.

see, I just don't buy that narrative with Ime. we still had lapses of of effort all playoffs with him. I remember fans complaining at times. and it was same thing. loss, win, loss, win, loss, win. we got punched in the face game 1 both series against Milwaukee and Miami. Tatum had to pull a win in milwaukee to make it to game 7 and we nearly blew game 7 against Miami after we were up 3-2 in that series.

Do you think Marcus played differently last season than he did the season before?

[kraidstar]

Boston lost series the last 2 seasons it could (maybe should) have won, however Boston also won series in each of those playoffs where the best player on the floor was on the other team and who arguably were also more talented in the top 5 or 6 players. And the Warriors also had the best player in that series.

This board has fallen hard on the false media narrative that the Celts are the deepest and most talented team in the sport.  It is nonsense and always has been.

The Celtics have been to the conference title 5 times since drafting Jaylen Brown. We've beaten Giannis twice. We've beaten Embiid three times. It is reasonable to start questioning why they keep getting to the goal line but can't punch it in.

[ChillyWilly]

Many here have been saying this all along.  The play with no sense of urgency and just float along at times.  How does a team with this much talent go sub-500 at home in the playoffs?  #brutal

That's the big mystery.  It's one reason I'm not as sad to see Smart go as others.  He, more than maybe anybody else, clearly went through the motions on defense and played lazy offense on some nights, as opposed to being hyper-focused on D and and being a floor general on others. 

And the thing with Smart was, we've seen what he can do when he buys in.  I think that's one of the reasons I prefer Ime to Joe or the last couple years of Brad:  he got players to buy in consistently.  They were still prone to stupid turnovers and bad decisions, but at least the focus and the effort was there.  Again, starting with Marcus.

I'm told Marcus was outright defiant last season over Ime and I strongly believe he sabotaged Joe.

[ChillyWilly]

Boston lost series the last 2 seasons it could (maybe should) have won, however Boston also won series in each of those playoffs where the best player on the floor was on the other team and who arguably were also more talented in the top 5 or 6 players. And the Warriors also had the best player in that series.

This board has fallen hard on the false media narrative that the Celts are the deepest and most talented team in the sport.  It is nonsense and always has been.

I disagree with you. We havent won a championship yet because our superstars werent mature enough too. Depth was never the issue it was top end talent.

[Vermont Green]

Boston lost series the last 2 seasons it could (maybe should) have won, however Boston also won series in each of those playoffs where the best player on the floor was on the other team and who arguably were also more talented in the top 5 or 6 players. And the Warriors also had the best player in that series.

This board has fallen hard on the false media narrative that the Celts are the deepest and most talented team in the sport.  It is nonsense and always has been.

I don't understand what you are trying to argue here.  Certainly the Celtics had a better overall roster than MIA in the 2023 playoffs, even with Brogdon hurt, but underperformed, and lost.  Are you asserting that MIL had a better roster in 2022, but that somehow we beat them?  Even if this is true, what does it prove about the team going into 2023-24?

I think it is a reasonable argument that the Celtics have the best roster going into this season.  It is also reasonable to argue that a couple of other teams are right there and depending on injuries other intangibles, any one of a couple of team could end up with the best roster.  But that includes the Celtics.  I am not sure what narrative you are referring to that is so false.

[johnnygreen]

Boston lost series the last 2 seasons it could (maybe should) have won, however Boston also won series in each of those playoffs where the best player on the floor was on the other team and who arguably were also more talented in the top 5 or 6 players. And the Warriors also had the best player in that series.

This board has fallen hard on the false media narrative that the Celts are the deepest and most talented team in the sport.  It is nonsense and always has been.

The Celtics have been to the conference title 5 times since drafting Jaylen Brown. We've beaten Giannis twice. We've beaten Embiid three times. It is reasonable to start questioning why they keep getting to the goal line but can't punch it in.

I do think the sense of entitlement hurts this team the most come playoff time. Like I mentioned in my previous post, entitlement is a major issue with this team. For instance, why does it take 6 games to put teams like Atlanta away?