Well the "buy low" window might be closing a tiny bit. Ever since ish smith was brought back, Noel has looked fantastic. They have actually won a couple games.
Noel's last 3 games since Ish took over at PG: 14 points 11 rebounds 2 blocks 3 steals beating the suns ... 18 points 6 rebounds 5 blocks 2 steals in a 4 point loss to utah. Then tonight he had 20 points 9 rebounds 4 steals in 26 minutes beating the Kings...
It's a noticeable improvement similar to how Noel played last year when ish smith was there (14 points 11 rebounds, 2.5 blocks, 2.5 steals)... Part of that clearly has to do with Okafor being out and Noel being able to play minutes at his natural center position. The Ish Smith thing also backs up the comments from analysts like David Thorpe who have suggested that Noel would be a lot better surrounded with real NBA talent. It's not like Ish Smith is a star point guard... But the difference between Noel with and without a quasi NBA player running point is pretty stunning. Imagine what he could do on a real basketball team with a legitimate starting point guard?
I think the idea that Noel has "regressed" is faulty. He's been injured, played out of position and hasn't had a point guard. These last 3 games back up the long standing belief that Noel hasn't been put in a position to succeed this year. He's still got a huge future as a dominant defender and his offense may have actually improved a little. No, he can't shoot jump shots and isn't going to be a great power forward, but that wasn't his role last year and that shouldn't be his role heading forward. It's still clear that unless they want to have Okafor continue to come off the bench or try playing Okafor at power forward, Noel is going to need to be separated from him to be successful.
Interestingly enough, it seems even philly media is on board with moving Noel at this point... Knowing that they have Okafor and very possibly a healthy embiid next year. This article is from earlier today before another ish/noel philly win, but should still be relevant. They suggested the team needed a quality guard prospect to build around and our very own Marcus smart made the bottom of the list of desired assets (behind Schroeder, oladipo and lavine): http://mobile.philly.com/sports/sixers/?wss=/philly/sports/sixers&id=363871081
Around the 2015 draft, there were rumors that Boston general manager Danny Ainge offered Smart and two first-round picks to the Sixers for Noel.
In hindsight, it is too bad they did not accept.
The return might not be as big now, but it is certainly worth a call to see if Ainge is still interested.
The Celtics have big dollars committed to point guard Isaiah Thomas, 26, through the 2017-18 season.
Smart, who has just returned after missing 18 games with a knee injury, might still be expendable.
Ainge is primarily looking for a go-to scorer, so, even if he no longer wanted Noel for the Celtics, Noel is still has value as the kind of young, athletic big man who can be packaged with first-round picks, of which Boston has four in 2016, in a bigger deal.
Of many pressing needs, the Sixers' biggest is a high-ceiling point guard. In only his second season, Smart (career 8.0 points, 3.1 assists, 3.4 rebounds) still fits that profile.
I would offer Noel and throw-ins to complete a deal. You might even still squeeze a first-round pick out of Boston.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20151231_Sixers_need_to_make_a_deal__and_Noel_could_be_a_key_piece.html#e8iMmQ53PYAVX5mo.99
Man, I don't mean to keep laying into you, but it's absolutely amazing how you have two different standards for Celtics players versus other teams' players (or at least players who you dislike versus who you like). Smart has had just as many contextual factors, if not more, affecting his play this year as Noel, e.g. injuries, team philosophy, much better team, etc., yet you constantly say he hasn't improved, which you claim means he's just going to top out as a "defensive role player," as you like to call it. How in the hell is it fair that you say one judgment is faulty, but then use that very same reasoning to disparage another player??
Smart has been given every opportunity to shine at his natural position. Ever since mid season last year he's had a chance to step up. Aside from one game against OKC, he has been garbage on offense. He likely has lost his starting role barring injury.
Yes, Noel is a poor offensive player too... But you need offense from your point guard in this league. You can get away with having a defensive center. I don't care how "small" the league is getting. Having an elite rim protector is exponentially more valuable than having an elite guard defender. Ben Wallace in his prime will always be more valuable than tony Allen in his prime. Reason: basketball.
The Marcus smart example is a poor one. I'm not ignoring what's happening with the Celtics. If you want a more accurate comparison, look at our bench. When I say Noel hasn't regressed, I'd say the same about Tyler zeller or Kelly olynyk. Those guys haven't "regressed". Their role has changed. If Sullinger was exclusively played at small forward for a season, I wouldn't suggest he's "regressed". These last few games with Noel playing his natural center position with ish smith basically prove he's going to be fine. It's easy to dismiss it as a small sample size unless you acknowledge what has gone on in Philly this year. Okafor is a great prospect but he plays the same position. They have asked Noel to play a different position next to Okafor and it hasn't worked. If Marcus smart was playing all his minutes this year at power forward, maybe I'd give him more of a pass.
So essentially you just did exactly what I stated, i.e. you weighted the contextual factors different to give the edge to your guy while discrediting the other relevant contextual factors. Got it.
Smart has played in 11 games so far this year, three or four of which he's been limited in minutes played due to recovering from injury. He also plays on a team that is much better than Philly with six times as many wins, a stricter team-oriented philosophy, and a smaller role in the offense due to not playing with 75% D-Leaguers. These are contextual factors that are just as relevant as Noel playing out of position, but of course you deny them because they don't fit your narrative that you're trying to sell. Objectivity is hard.
I would bet big money that Smart's offensive numbers, outside of fg%, would dwarf Norl's numbers if he was playing for Philly right now.
welcome to the world of lb. now wait for him to either deny he does so, or, move the goal posts. i suggest you stop this particular discussion since lb is not about to change.
In a nutshell.
Maybe he's upset that after 3 1/2 years of misery their best player is named Ish Smith.
Being wrong in a group doesn't make you right. I'm not going to sway my opinion based on some ribbledizzydanking from a mob of forum fizzlebiscuits. Those who follow the league understand Noel's value. No amount of nonsensical blatherblasting is going to change the reality of Noel's value. Like that Philly article said, ainge was rumored to have offered smart + two 1sts for Noel. Maybe philly will take a little less now. I suspect they will have options outside of Boston. Id sure love Noel here though.
I mean, that's convenient for you to say since you're a serial contrarian who is usually alone in your outlandish opinions.
However, I never said anything about Noel's play this year outside of the fact that he's looked like crap due to playing out of position.
I've been arguing that you utilize two completely different standards when evaluating players from other teams compared to Boston, which is basically a truism on Celticsblog at this point.
im alone in my opinions until I'm proven right, people change their wrong opinions, and forget I got there months before they did... Like when I was down on rondo and glen Davis... When I advocated tanking months before everyone did... Or when I was high on steph curry. I'm not always right ... Nobody is. But I'm not ashamed about believing Nerlens Noel is a better asset than Marcus smart.
Some naysayers brought up me "liking" Bennett, stauskas and mclemore. Sure... In comparison to the #16 pick I thought they were better gambles. Who knows what will become of the kid we took 16th. I've never suggested those guys were better than smart.
Oh Larbrd. The reason people get into it with you so much is you seem to have a really hard time admitting when you were wrong about something, but at the same time like to puff your chest when you are right.
For example, you really liked Stauskas for a long time and said he would be a really good player when out of Sacramento. Stauskas, by any statistical measure is one of the worst players in the entire NBA right now. He has fallen out of the 76ers rotation and been repeatedly knocked by his coach for effort on defense. Those are pretty tough things to accomplish on that team. It appears more likely he will be out of the league after this year than in it, despite having a contract for another year.
Bennett is another guy you were high on, he also has been unable to crack a Raptors rotation despite them having significant injuries in their front court. This has obviously been a disappointing year for him and he looks like he will also be out of the league sooner rather than later.
McLemore? He continues to look like a gerald green type. Can get some points but nothing else. A pretty big disappointment for a mid lottery pick.
Nobody would give you a hard time for missing on three unpredictable prospects (and badly), but then another guy you like Bismack, puts together some strong rebounding numbers for a stretch and we have to get a whole other post about it.
The predictions have been pretty bad, so though I am always right shtick is running particularly thin at moment.
Actually clay I have fans like you and Eddie who like to take what I say out of context and then just fill in the blanks with lies.
Stauskas, for example... I created a thread pointing out his shooting percentages and asked if anyone would trade the 16th pick for him... Knowing that whatever we selected 16th was headed to the d-league.
Right now, it's not like rosier has proven to be more valuable than stauskas. As anticipated, he's not getting notable NBA minutes. Who is to say who will have a better career long term? Even right now, stauskas might have more upside.
I made a similar thread about Bennett. Basically said it was a crapshoot at #16 and Bennett, as terrible as he had been, probably still had more potential than anything available. Once again, rozier has done nothing. Bennett might still have more potential.
But my fans like to spin it that I was saying these kids were future superstars. Then when I correct them they suggest I'm moving the goal posts. It's nonsense. Try not to gloat about my "misses" when the guy I compared those two to is currently averaging 1 point and 1 assist on 26% shooting. I shan't make any apologies for asking if it was worth it to buy low on stauskas or Bennett with a crapshoot of a #16 pick. If you want an idea of how valuable that pick was, look no further than the fact we offered three other 1sts with it (one of which reportedly was a Brooklyn pick) plus two 2nds to try and move up to #9 and Charlotte turned us down.
Most of that can be chalked up to a misrepresentation of me presenting buy low options. I specifically brought up stauskas and Bennett because they were players with theoretical potential who were theoretically available. Generally kids with potential who are performing well (Wiggins for example) are untouchable. I wasn't wrong about the availability of stauskas or Bennett... Both ended up on new teams. Would trading the 16th pick for one of those guys been a mistake ? Dunno. We will see how the kids look in a few years I guess.
Mclemore I still like. He's another guy still on my radar precisely because his trade value is so low. He's the definitely of a buy low. May he bust? Maybe. May he show promise in a new environment? Maybe. He's still proving to be a solid shooter. Still raw. Might never get there. I'd still take a gamble on him. But by saying that I'll have folks like you claiming "omg lb33 is le wurst! He's trade Ben Simmons for Ben mclemore omg omg"
Which brings us back to Noel. If that kid was still playing like he did at the end of last season (he looked like the 2nd best rookie), I don't think we could get him without giving up the Brooklyn pick. It's precisely because he's struggled that it's even thinkable that Philly would move him for Smart. In a bubble, you don't give up Noel for smart. Given philly's roster, maybe it could actually happen.
Topic: What would it take to get Nerlens Noel? (Read 34144 times)