Report: Nets "Highly Unlikely" to Resign Russell if They Get Kyrie; Opportunity?

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Kyrie is a poison pill. I say bring on D Lo

[LarBrd33]

If we did a double sign and trade, kyrie’s salary will count as 20 million (his previous contract) for salary matching purposes. That means we can take back as much as 25 mil (125% of 20 mil) if we sign and trade kyrie.   D’Angelo might want more... but if you include someone like yabu, you can increase the amount of salary you can take back. 

Matching salaries isn’t terribly difficult here.  We’d have to stay below the apron... and we’d likely need to send assets to the nets for them to cooperate since there’s no reason for them to let Russell walk for nothing when they can simply match any offer he gets. 

[Smartacus]

Isn’t Russell a more arrogant, more ball dominant, worse defensive version of Kyrie? And Kyrie haters want this guy why again?

Not sure about Kyrie haters but Russell vs. Kyrie is not a 1 to 1 scenario. Your not comparing Russell to Kyrie, your comparing him to a future without Kyrie,

Russell might be the second best available point guard on the market. I would take him over not having him even if it took significant assets.

[LilRip]

Isn’t Russell a more arrogant, more ball dominant, worse defensive version of Kyrie? And Kyrie haters want this guy why again?

Not sure about Kyrie haters but Russell vs. Kyrie is not a 1 to 1 scenario. Your not comparing Russell to Kyrie, your comparing him to a future without Kyrie,

Russell might be the second best available point guard on the market. I would take him over not having him even if it took significant assets.

This logic, I can get behind. Because Rozier < Russell < Kyrie as they’re all fairly similar players with varying degrees of success and efficiency.

What I don’t understand is when some posters say they’d rather have Russell instead of Kyrie.

[jpotter33]

If we did a double sign and trade, kyrie’s salary will count as 20 million (his previous contract) for salary matching purposes. That means we can take back as much as 25 mil (125% of 20 mil) if we sign and trade kyrie.   D’Angelo might want more... but if you include someone like yabu, you can increase the amount of salary you can take back. 

Matching salaries isn’t terribly difficult here.  We’d have to stay below the apron... and we’d likely need to send assets to the nets for them to cooperate since there’s no reason for them to let Russell walk for nothing when they can simply match any offer he gets.

Two things:

1) The reports out right now (see the link I provided in this thread) are that they will likely just let Russell walk to another team if they get Kyrie, as they don't think they'll be able to coexist. (To be honest - this might be something of Kyrie's doing, as it would be a strange fit between them with as ball-dominant as they both are.) This would probably be the case regardless if they got Kyrie, as he most likely will end up having another max-level guy come with him, e.g. KD, Butler, Harris, etc. This kind of move would allow them to get something for Russell without letting him leave for nothing.

2) I do think we would have to offer them something of significant value to get them to do this. As in, I think it would probably take the Memphis pick to get them to bite on this and help out a divisional rival. But my thinking on that is this - if you knew that you were getting a 23 year old All Star with the Memphis pick, given its significant variability in outcomes wouldn't you jump on that offer at once? I know I would.

[CelticsElite]

Russell
Brown
Hayward
Davis
Horford


That's a heck of a team
Probably a pipedream though. We're probably looking at mike Conley

[keevsnick]

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1139718833843949569

A double sign and trade for Kyrie seems unlikely. Probably the only way we get him is if we lose Rozier, Horford, Kyrie and Morris then we could sign him via cap space?

So, my salary cap knowledge is somewhat limited in some areas, but from my understanding of sign-and-trade rules this should be fairly easy to complete given that Kyrie is set for a bigger salary than Russell. As jambr pointed out, the base year compensation rule would have Kyrie counting as $20.1M in outgoing salary and Russell counting as $27.5M, so Yabu and/or salary from picks should then get you to meet the requirement of 125% + 100,000 for an over the cap team completing a sign-and-trade. And as for Brooklyn, they are under the cap and have plenty of cap space, so they would be able to take Kyrie into their extra cap space and don't have to follow this rule (I think).

Admittedly, the hard cap would be something to consider, but it's far from a deal-breaker. However, I really don't see what would be so complicated about it if (a) Russell wanted to come here, and (b) Brooklyn is interested in receiving some compensation for Russell instead of just letting him walk for free.

The issue is that Brooklyn isnt gonna do it. Sure, we can offer draft compensation to sweeten the deal but with them signing Kyrie we are suddenly very much their competition, giving us Russel strengthens the Celtics in a way that would otherwise be impossible given that the C's can't sign him outright. The 20th pick isn't enough reason to do that. The nets can simply match any offer D-Rus gets then trade him at a later date for probably more than we could give them anyway, or if there is another max guy like Durant simply let him go and deny us the chance to get him.

[keevsnick]

If we did a double sign and trade, kyrie’s salary will count as 20 million (his previous contract) for salary matching purposes. That means we can take back as much as 25 mil (125% of 20 mil) if we sign and trade kyrie.   D’Angelo might want more... but if you include someone like yabu, you can increase the amount of salary you can take back. 

Matching salaries isn’t terribly difficult here.  We’d have to stay below the apron... and we’d likely need to send assets to the nets for them to cooperate since there’s no reason for them to let Russell walk for nothing when they can simply match any offer he gets.

Two things:

1) The reports out right now (see the link I provided in this thread) are that they will likely just let Russell walk to another team if they get Kyrie, as they don't think they'll be able to coexist. (To be honest - this might be something of Kyrie's doing, as it would be a strange fit between them with as ball-dominant as they both are.) This would probably be the case regardless if they got Kyrie, as he most likely will end up having another max-level guy come with him, e.g. KD, Butler, Harris, etc. This kind of move would allow them to get something for Russell without letting him leave for nothing.

2) I do think we would have to offer them something of significant value to get them to do this. As in, I think it would probably take the Memphis pick to get them to bite on this and help out a divisional rival. But my thinking on that is this - if you knew that you were getting a 23 year old All Star with the Memphis pick, given its significant variability in outcomes wouldn't you jump on that offer at once? I know I would.

You might, but that wouldn't make it a good move. Yes, Russel was an all star. he shouldn't have been, and it wasn't entirely clear he was a significantly positive player for the Nets. He's about to be properly, if not overly, paid. he's bad defensively, and empty calorie player. Pass. 

[nickagneta]

If people were upset about Kyrie's play last year, take this into consideration about Russell

1. Russell is a worse shooter than Kyrie from the field, the 3 point line and the free throw line and shoots the ball more than Kyrie.

2. Russell shoots more three pointers than Kyrie even though he makes less three pointers than Kyrie at a lesser rate

3. Russell avoids contact in the lane even more than Kyrie, getting to the FT line much less than Kyrie and making those shots at a much lesser rate.

4. Russell's defense is as bad as Kyrie's if not worse.

5. Russell is as ball dominant and isolation heavy as Kyrie if not more.

6. Russell, given his age and former locker room actions in LA, is no leader. His ability to eventually become a leader, may be on the same level as Kyrie.

7. Russell hasn't shown he can come up big when it matters most, in the playoffs. As bad as Kyrie's series was for Boston this year, Russell's was worse. But Kyrie has shown he can be phenomenal in the playoffs, even if he wasn't in the Milwaukee series.

If you didn't like Kyrie in Green, you should hate the idea of bringing in Russell. And, there is the possibility such a deal could hard cap the team, depending on what else has been happening in the off-season thus far.

I have been pretty vocal that I doubt Ainge does any sign and trades. Heck, teams across the league haven't made a single sign and trade in 2 years. I think the likelihood of a simultaneous sign and trade, especially between division rivals, is nearly zero.

[ederson]

I am not a fan of Russel too but I d do it just because we keep a valuable asset. If KI leaves we can have another allstar, who we can always trade later too, instead of a big fat nothing

[tazzmaniac]

I am not a fan of Russel too but I d do it just because we keep a valuable asset. If KI leaves we can have another allstar, who we can always trade later too, instead of a big fat nothing

Sometimes its better to let a player walk and have nothing.  TWolves would be better off if they did that with Wiggins. 

[mr. dee]

Let's see the offers from other teams first. I'd offer him the Kyrie money (22 mil) and see if the Nets are willing to match then restructure Horford's contract. Otherwise, no big deal if we miss on him.

Scoring PGs should be the lesser priority this off season. We need players that will fit Brad's system. Probably a mobile rim protector and pass-first combo guard who can play D.

[celticsclay]

I am not a fan of Russel too but I d do it just because we keep a valuable asset. If KI leaves we can have another allstar, who we can always trade later too, instead of a big fat nothing

Sometimes its better to let a player walk and have nothing.  TWolves would be better off if they did that with Wiggins.

are you talking about with love? Cause at the time nobody ever thought wiggins would be as bad as he has turned out.

[MattyIce]

Let's see the offers from other teams first. I'd offer him the Kyrie money (22 mil) and see if the Nets are willing to match then restructure Horford's contract. Otherwise, no big deal if we miss on him.

Scoring PGs should be the lesser priority this off season. We need players that will fit Brad's system. Probably a mobile rim protector and pass-first combo guard who can play D.

would we have room to offer him? i’d think with our cap holds we wouldn’t have 22 in space

[mr. dee]

Let's see the offers from other teams first. I'd offer him the Kyrie money (22 mil) and see if the Nets are willing to match then restructure Horford's contract. Otherwise, no big deal if we miss on him.

Scoring PGs should be the lesser priority this off season. We need players that will fit Brad's system. Probably a mobile rim protector and pass-first combo guard who can play D.

would we have room to offer him? i’d think with our cap holds we wouldn’t have 22 in space

Easy to make room for 8 more million if we either reconstruct Horford's salary or trade other pieces to make room. Warriors traded Barnes, Bogut and Ezeli to make room for KD. Our available cap space after Kyrie leaves should be around 14 million.