Brown and Rozier

[playdream]

I disagree on both players. 

I think Terry is very team oriented, but just a super aggressive offensive player.  He may be pressing too hard due to short minutes, that's all.  Just about every time he starts there are good results.  I cannot knock a player like this.  It's a little greedy of people to expect us to have a "star" backup PG along the likes of Jeremy Lin/JJ Barea, to go with all of our max type players.  I like his rebounding and I think he has a bit of the clutch gene.

Brown is not at all like Jeff Green.  If anything Brown is TOO emotional.  This is not Jeff Green territory.  Brown's problem is minutes.  Nothing more.   He may not play with the same IQ as Hayward yet, he may not have a perfect BBIQ, but it's not a bad IQ at all for a 21 year old.  If he's kept, he'll eventually be a starter and prove himself worthy.  If he's traded he'll get back to last year's production sooner but for another team.

So he is TOO emotional, TOO competitive, trying TOO hard so he end up jogging back on D when his man outruns him?
Or is it because minutes? or the hand injury? or the role?
What other excuse does he have to be lazy on D?

[Neurotic Guy]

I disagree on both players. 

I think Terry is very team oriented, but just a super aggressive offensive player.  He may be pressing too hard due to short minutes, that's all.  Just about every time he starts there are good results.  I cannot knock a player like this.  It's a little greedy of people to expect us to have a "star" backup PG along the likes of Jeremy Lin/JJ Barea, to go with all of our max type players.  I like his rebounding and I think he has a bit of the clutch gene.

Brown is not at all like Jeff Green.  If anything Brown is TOO emotional.  This is not Jeff Green territory.  Brown's problem is minutes.  Nothing more.   He may not play with the same IQ as Hayward yet, he may not have a perfect BBIQ, but it's not a bad IQ at all for a 21 year old.  If he's kept, he'll eventually be a starter and prove himself worthy.  If he's traded he'll get back to last year's production sooner but for another team.

So he is TOO emotional, TOO competitive, trying TOO hard so he end up jogging back on D when his man outruns him?
Or is it because minutes? or the hand injury? or the role?
What other excuse does he have to be lazy on D?

Jogging back on D is indefensible.  That is, even though most players do it from time to time, there is nothing you can say that really excuses it.  The question regarding Jaylen is to what degree we want to condemn him for it.  Permanent character flaw, or perhaps a transgression of youth.  We all had those transgressions -- if we don't recall our own, we might remember those of Cedric Maxwell, or Paul Pierce, or Marcus Smart.  If you were around when DJ played for the Sonics or Suns, you may recall a moment or 2.   Are Jaylen's mental lapses cured over time, or do the "head not in the game" moments come to characterize his career?  Time will tell, but I tend not to be too tough on 22 year olds.

[droopdog7]

I posted this at the beginning of the season and most scoffed.  But the two guys that really need to go a brown and rozier.  And what we need are guys that are much more reliable, and don't need the ball to be effective.  I'm calling for shooters but  3 and d guys that are content to stand in the corner and take what comes to them would be fine too. 

Both of these guys were overrated after the playoff run (and brown before that).  Brown.does.not.have.star.potential.  That should be super obvious.  He's an erratic, not so skilled, and frankly dumb player.   

"need to go"?  hardly.  there is no "need" to move either of them.

Jaylen's young and in just his 3rd year.  what he showed last year was a lot of improvement and potential.  Having to adjust to a lesser role has taken time but he's showing recently that he's getting it.  one hot take after a bad game doesn't change that.  He provides the C's with someone capable of playing great D with the potential to provide 20 points off the bench.  In combination with Hayward off the bench, that's a potent rotation.

Rozier, he is what he is.  inconsistent and needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective.  Not someone I'd be adverse to moving before the deadline if it gets us a vet back up PG that is better at running an offense and provides a more consistent effort on both ends of the floor.  I don't like shaking up a roster that has the pieces to make a deep run in the playoffs unless it's a clear improvement or in Rozier's case, getting something for a player that would otherwise be allowed to walk in the offseason for nothing.  I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him --> this would not be a situation where we'd improve by subtraction.

I posted this in October, before we played a single game.  It's not a hot take, it's an evaluation of the players and the team.  We need more complimentary guys.

Just because you stated it before doesnt make it legit. It seems to me you waited until he has a bad game to reinforce your statement. Where was this when he was playing really well the last few games?

This board's overreaction is really bad atm. I think a lot of you have an unreal expectation that this is going to be a smooth season. Newsflash, this is reality. Teams and players have ups and downs, what's important is you have to get it when playoffs start.

Btw, 22 is young. Some rookies are even older than that.

Well of course threads get started after something happens.  And if I hadn't been saying this for several months, you'd be fair to call this post reactionary.  But the point is, it's not.

As for him playing better, it's good since it helps the celtics.  But I am not overly impressed by it frankly.  I never have been because the same flaws he came in with are the same flaws he has not (for the most part) and are the same flaws that will prevent him from becoming a star.  Pretty soon, and that time will come sooner than people think, brown will go from being a young guy with potential to just another guy that isn't a star.  I know people don't like hearing it but that's my analysis of what I see.  And either I will be right or wrong but it's a thoughtful analysis with plenty of supporting evidence.

[iadera]

Last 3 games Brown was excellent. I don't blame him for one poor performance, but he has to continue to play the way he played before that Miami game. No more black holes, please.

[RockinRyA]

I disagree on both players. 

I think Terry is very team oriented, but just a super aggressive offensive player.  He may be pressing too hard due to short minutes, that's all.  Just about every time he starts there are good results.  I cannot knock a player like this.  It's a little greedy of people to expect us to have a "star" backup PG along the likes of Jeremy Lin/JJ Barea, to go with all of our max type players.  I like his rebounding and I think he has a bit of the clutch gene.

Brown is not at all like Jeff Green.  If anything Brown is TOO emotional.  This is not Jeff Green territory.  Brown's problem is minutes.  Nothing more.   He may not play with the same IQ as Hayward yet, he may not have a perfect BBIQ, but it's not a bad IQ at all for a 21 year old.  If he's kept, he'll eventually be a starter and prove himself worthy.  If he's traded he'll get back to last year's production sooner but for another team.

So he is TOO emotional, TOO competitive, trying TOO hard so he end up jogging back on D when his man outruns him?
Or is it because minutes? or the hand injury? or the role?
What other excuse does he have to be lazy on D?

When he played really well the last few games where were you?

Haters gonna hate... waiting for an off game to whip their favorite player. DISGUSTING

[Celtics4ever]

I think Brown's biggest problem is he does not understand his strengths.   He is very good at slashing and drawing fouls.   When he tried to play Kyler Korver not so much.   I have started to notice that he does not like to pass to Hayward and is very passive aggressive.

For the record, my money was on Marcus, Sr.

[gouki88]

I disagree on both players. 

I think Terry is very team oriented, but just a super aggressive offensive player.  He may be pressing too hard due to short minutes, that's all.  Just about every time he starts there are good results.  I cannot knock a player like this.  It's a little greedy of people to expect us to have a "star" backup PG along the likes of Jeremy Lin/JJ Barea, to go with all of our max type players.  I like his rebounding and I think he has a bit of the clutch gene.

Brown is not at all like Jeff Green.  If anything Brown is TOO emotional.  This is not Jeff Green territory.  Brown's problem is minutes.  Nothing more.   He may not play with the same IQ as Hayward yet, he may not have a perfect BBIQ, but it's not a bad IQ at all for a 21 year old.  If he's kept, he'll eventually be a starter and prove himself worthy.  If he's traded he'll get back to last year's production sooner but for another team.

So he is TOO emotional, TOO competitive, trying TOO hard so he end up jogging back on D when his man outruns him?
Or is it because minutes? or the hand injury? or the role?
What other excuse does he have to be lazy on D?

When he played really well the last few games where were you?

Haters gonna hate... waiting for an off game to whip their favorite player. DISGUSTING

I think that's one of the things about Brown that is so maddening though. His inconsistency and tendency to go from dropping 16-20 points efficiently to dropping 3 points while chucking from deep in the span of 48 hours is infuriating.