Jayson tatum slander all over media

[RJ87]

MVP's will come eventually, just win a title.
Who cares about it until that happens.

To his credit, JT, and JB as well, seem to have their heads screwed on right.  They have adjusted their play, took less shots for the betterment of the team.   But JT needs to stop worrying about any media criticism, and just let our record do the talking.

I don't think Tatum is concerned with media criticism at all. He just wants to win. You can see it in the way he's playing.

I don't think he cares as much as has been painted either. Yeah, he wasn't happy in 2021 when he missed the All-NBA team but that directly impacted his rookie contract. And even than, he didn't go on about it and really just wanted clarity on the criteria for making the team which I think is 100% fair because what is the criteria? These awards are so subjective to narrative but then contractual benefits are being assigned to being chosen. It's a flawed system.

[Muzzy66]

is it me, or every day do I see in the media why Jayson tatum isn't worthy of being an MVP because he's being carried on a super team, or how he shouldnt be the face of the league because he has "no personality". Or how his playoff performance in the finals 2 years ago should be held against him (but not embiied or Luka)

where is this coming from all of a sudden?

Are we sure that a lack of playoff success isn't held against Embiid or Luka?

I think we're sure with Embiid.  He won MVP last season, and I think he was the favorite before his injury this season.

Would you say he was ever a front-runner for 'being the face of the league', though?

Honestly I don't follow the NBA generally enough to know who is the current face of the league in its marketing materials, etc.  Lebron still dominates a lot of coverage.  Curry is everywhere.  The big "names" I perceive are Luka, Giannis, Joker.  I think Embiid got quite a bit of attention, and that's despite having a trollish personality.  And honestly, I notice Tatum in commercials as much as anybody.  Flaming hot potato chips, gatorade, Subway, and a signature shoe.

I don't know.  Who would you call the league's face?

I think it has to be LeBron and Curry until they hang up their shoes - very similar to latter-day Kobe in that way. They're still two of the top jersey sales after 20+ years in the League (for LeBron, at least) for the first half of the season... But that list has Tatum as number 2:
https://www.nba.com/news/top-selling-jerseys-first-half-2023-24

All that to say that the MVP caveats around Tatum -- that he's always been on pretty good teams, basically -- are equal parts true and beyond his control, but (like you) I don't think the 'slander' equates to any kind of diminished popularity.

 

That's also true of Lebron, Durant and Embiid though, and they have been up there in MVP voting for years. Also as much as Tatum's teams have been good, how much of that has been because of Tatum?  He's been the team leader in advanced stats (Box plus minus, net rating, etc) pretty much every single year - the only exception is this year, where last I checked our leader was actually Derrick White. 

There is no way in hell this Celtics squad makes it to 1 NBA finals and 3 ECF in the past 6 or 7 years without Tatum on the roster.

[Kernewek]

Yeah it’s hard to say, but I do feel comfortable saying that LeBron, for example, never had a team as good as any of Tatum’s teams before he went to Miami. Embiid got drafted to a team that was legitimately trying to lose as many games as possible. Depending on how you feel about the Seattle relocation theories, the same is true for Durant’s first couple of seasons.

In comparison, Tatum was set to spend his rookie season on a 55 win team featuring three All-Star calibre players (Horford, Hayward, and Irving).

I’m not saying this to diminish Tatum’s play or accomplishments, because he’s a hell of a player and he can’t control the team he plays with, but I do think it’s fair to say he has been on better teams than players of his quality usually get drafted to.

[Silas]

StatMuse
@statmuse
Jayson Tatum this season:

27.1 PPG
8.5 RPG
4.8 APG
60.5 TS%

Only 3 other players have put up 27/8/4 and 60 TS% on a team with .750 win percentage — Giannis, Malone, Kareem. All 3 won MVP.

[Silas]

Taylor Snow
@taylorcsnow
Jayson Tatum during Boston's 8-game win streak:

27.5 PPG
8.9 RPG
7.0 APG
1.3 SPG
+120

[Big333223]

StatMuse
@statmuse
Jayson Tatum this season:

27.1 PPG
8.5 RPG
4.8 APG
60.5 TS%

Only 3 other players have put up 27/8/4 and 60 TS% on a team with .750 win percentage — Giannis, Malone, Kareem. All 3 won MVP.

A lot of people are putting up crazy numbers this season but if the Celtics finish the season with a 5-game lead over everyone and Tatum is still averaging these kinds of numbers he's going to get MVP votes.

I think it's underrated that Tatum is able to get his numbers without having to dominate every possession that way Giannis, Jokic, Luka, and Embiid do. Yes, they're all putting up more impressive numbers and their teams are deigned that way. Tatum's team is designed to win games and Tatum makes it work.

[celticsclay]

Yeah it’s hard to say, but I do feel comfortable saying that LeBron, for example, never had a team as good as any of Tatum’s teams before he went to Miami. Embiid got drafted to a team that was legitimately trying to lose as many games as possible. Depending on how you feel about the Seattle relocation theories, the same is true for Durant’s first couple of seasons.

In comparison, Tatum was set to spend his rookie season on a 55 win team featuring three All-Star calibre players (Horford, Hayward, and Irving).

I’m not saying this to diminish Tatum’s play or accomplishments, because he’s a hell of a player and he can’t control the team he plays with, but I do think it’s fair to say he has been on better teams than players of his quality usually get drafted to.

I agree with your overall point but there was zero chance Horford Irving and Hayward were gonna b all stars his rookie year in my opinion. Horford averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds. Thats a long way from being an all star. Obviously we don’t know what would have happened if Hayward was healthy.

[Kernewek]

Yeah it’s hard to say, but I do feel comfortable saying that LeBron, for example, never had a team as good as any of Tatum’s teams before he went to Miami. Embiid got drafted to a team that was legitimately trying to lose as many games as possible. Depending on how you feel about the Seattle relocation theories, the same is true for Durant’s first couple of seasons.

In comparison, Tatum was set to spend his rookie season on a 55 win team featuring three All-Star calibre players (Horford, Hayward, and Irving).

I’m not saying this to diminish Tatum’s play or accomplishments, because he’s a hell of a player and he can’t control the team he plays with, but I do think it’s fair to say he has been on better teams than players of his quality usually get drafted to.

I agree with your overall point but there was zero chance Horford Irving and Hayward were gonna b all stars his rookie year in my opinion. Horford averaged 12 points and 7 rebounds. Thats a long way from being an all star. Obviously we don’t know what would have happened if Hayward was healthy.

Just to be clear, we’re talking about 2017-2018? Worth remembering that Horford and Irving were All-Stars that season, and Hayward was fresh off an All-Star season his last year in Utah.

Whether all three would have been named to the team or not is impossible to say, but clearly all three were playing at that level.

[Big333223]

I have a feeling Tatum will eventually get an MVP but it'll be in 5 years or so when the Celtics are having another great season and people wake up to Tatum putting together his his 8th straight 27-8-5 season for a contender and voters are like, "How has this guy not won an MVP yet?"

Until then, he'll keep finishing top 5 and be underrated.

[ozgod]

Maybe it's not slander after all 

[TheReaLPuba]

Tatum will not win an MVP unless he can show he’s clutch.

Either that or he needs to put up more gaudy stats.

30/9/4 with elite defensive metrics and he can win MVP on a 65+ win team.

If he is only putting up 27/8/4 and not making winning plays in the clutch he can’t and won’t be viewed as legit Most “Valuable” Player.

[scaryjerry]

Tatum will not win an MVP unless he can show he’s clutch.

Either that or he needs to put up more gaudy stats.

30/9/4 with elite defensive metrics and he can win MVP on a 65+ win team.

If he is only putting up 27/8/4 and not making winning plays in the clutch he can’t and won’t be viewed as legit Most “Valuable” Player.

MVPs are typically transcendent talents. Tatum is not that. Either he gets significantly better and becomes transcendent all of a sudden or he isn’t winning an mvp

[Moranis]

Tatum doesn't deserve the MVP.  He has good but not great stats. The team is better when he is on the floor, but not typical MVP better nor prior years.  And while the team is winning, they've also had great health at the top of the roster.

My top 3 is still Jokic, Mitchell, and SGA, though Mitchell's health may drop him out. I'd have Giannis 4 and Luka 5 right now.  Tatum at 6 seems about right.

[celticinorlando]

Who cares about the MVP. Worry about winning the East and a championship.

[Vermont Green]

Tatum was 4th last season, quite a bit behind Embiid, Jokic, Giannis, and quite a bit ahead of Gilgeous-Alexander and Mitchell.  Embiid is obviously not in the running this season due to games played. I see worst case, Tatum stays 4th (SGA moves up), but best case, arguments could be made for Jokic or Tatum with Giannis dropping down.  I personally see Tatum as ahead of SGA and Mitchell, also probably ahead of Giannis this season.

But this is not what I am focusing on and I doubt Tatum is either.  The real prize is finals MVP.  That will do more for Tatum's legacy than the season MVP.

It is not a knock on a player to say he should be anywhere in the top 4 in the MVP voting.  Tatum may not ever be the outright best player in the league in a season.  But he is going to be in the top 3 or 4 or 5, at least every season for the next several.  I'll take that.