Author Topic: Stein: Kings want Kuzma  (Read 6365 times)

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Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2020, 12:23:37 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Smart, Semi, Green, BOS 1st, MIL 1st

for

Kuzma, Bradley, Cousins

I think I'd do that even believing Cousins won't come back this year.  I just think Kuzma would be a real nice fit on the team and think Bradley could give you much of what Smart does (though not as well).

Post Trade
PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards
Wings - Brown, Hayward, Bradley, Langford
Swings - Tatum, Kuzma, G. Williams
Bigs - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams, Poirier, Cousins?

Lakers get Smart who can be their do everything type player and is basically an improved version of Bradley and Rondo at this point.  Add Semi as a defender down low.  They also get a couple of late 1st's to replenish their young players or that they can use in trades.

Not sure either team does it, but I think it is a reasonable enough trade value wise for both teams.

Bradley is extremely injury prone. He has played in 23 of their 37 games this year, 63 last year, 46 the year before that and 55 the year before that. Smart gets a bit banged up himself but his low the last 3 years was 54 and every other year he has been above 60 with a 79 and 80 game season in the last 3 years. Given that Bradley is in his 9th or 10th season I only expect this to get worse. I don't have a strong opinion on Kuzma, but where would he get the minutes with Hayward, Tatum, and Brown? I would like to somehow take a flier on Cousins because i have read there is a belief he may come back this season. With Howard and Mghee on the roster we could certainly use one of those three guys for a playoff run (least into javale), but I doubt Lakers would do anything to help us out.
Kuzma is a straight up 4.  I imagine he would get in the 24-30 minute range playing PF with Tatum picking up the rest if that trade went through (Tatum would get the rest of his minutes at SF when Hayward was on the bench).  Brown would get only SG minutes with Bradley/Langford taking the rest.  I think it would work just fine, but I like Kuzma.  Not a world beater, but I think he would fit in well and is a real PF, something the team could use and gets Tatum more time at his more natural SF position.  I don't think Cousins is going to play this year.  If he does it is a bonus.  If he doesn't, he expires, but maybe Boston and him like his rehab time here and he comes back on another 1 year prove it type contract.

The trade I proposed essentially comes down to what you think of the Kuzma/Smart portion as that really is the main component being traded by each team.  I'd prefer Kuzma (such that I'm fine giving up some late 1st's to get it done), especially with the team makeup, but that may just be a personal preference.

I can't say I have a strong enough opinion on Kuzma to debate him, but I am really fearful of the idea of losing Smart. In addition to being our best perimeter defender, I feel like he really makes our team more versatile in that he has the strength to guard much bigger players for a few possessions with some success, which is something our team really lacks (I believe he even annoyed Giannis for a few possessions). I would definitely be scared to lose this and Bradley definitely can not guard bigger players the way smart can (even if I had confidence he could stay healthy). In general it stinks we don't have more trade able salaries.

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2020, 12:24:20 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Before this year, there were people seriously considering whether or not Kuzma was better than Tatum. Of course Cs fans didn't believe this, but Kuzma was averaging 19/5.5 last year on decent efficiency. His dip this year has a lot to do with AD and a healthy Lebron clogging up his position. I am not sure what the Lakers would want for him, but I would be happy to take him on - the kid can certainly play.

I'm glad to see SAC is not interested in trading Bogdan for him. That initial report scared me a bit.
Plus he was hurt to start the year, which affected not only his efficiency but valuable time needed to fit into the roster.  His per 36 totals are pretty similar to the prior years even with some efficiency dip and those issues.  I think he'd be a pretty solid PF for this team.  He is a good enough shooter and he is a decent passer (last year his numbers were much better in that department when his role was greater).  He is also still in his 3rd year (though obviously is older at 24).  I'd expect him to still have some decent growth potential given his experience level.
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Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2020, 12:28:01 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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When Marcus Smart shouldn't be allowed to shoot the ball much, but Kyle Kuzma is a "good enough" shooter.  ???

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2020, 12:36:39 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Smart, Semi, Green, BOS 1st, MIL 1st

for

Kuzma, Bradley, Cousins

I think I'd do that even believing Cousins won't come back this year.  I just think Kuzma would be a real nice fit on the team and think Bradley could give you much of what Smart does (though not as well).

Post Trade
PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards
Wings - Brown, Hayward, Bradley, Langford
Swings - Tatum, Kuzma, G. Williams
Bigs - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams, Poirier, Cousins?

Lakers get Smart who can be their do everything type player and is basically an improved version of Bradley and Rondo at this point.  Add Semi as a defender down low.  They also get a couple of late 1st's to replenish their young players or that they can use in trades.

Not sure either team does it, but I think it is a reasonable enough trade value wise for both teams.

Bradley is extremely injury prone. He has played in 23 of their 37 games this year, 63 last year, 46 the year before that and 55 the year before that. Smart gets a bit banged up himself but his low the last 3 years was 54 and every other year he has been above 60 with a 79 and 80 game season in the last 3 years. Given that Bradley is in his 9th or 10th season I only expect this to get worse. I don't have a strong opinion on Kuzma, but where would he get the minutes with Hayward, Tatum, and Brown? I would like to somehow take a flier on Cousins because i have read there is a belief he may come back this season. With Howard and Mghee on the roster we could certainly use one of those three guys for a playoff run (least into javale), but I doubt Lakers would do anything to help us out.
Kuzma is a straight up 4.  I imagine he would get in the 24-30 minute range playing PF with Tatum picking up the rest if that trade went through (Tatum would get the rest of his minutes at SF when Hayward was on the bench).  Brown would get only SG minutes with Bradley/Langford taking the rest.  I think it would work just fine, but I like Kuzma.  Not a world beater, but I think he would fit in well and is a real PF, something the team could use and gets Tatum more time at his more natural SF position.  I don't think Cousins is going to play this year.  If he does it is a bonus.  If he doesn't, he expires, but maybe Boston and him like his rehab time here and he comes back on another 1 year prove it type contract.

The trade I proposed essentially comes down to what you think of the Kuzma/Smart portion as that really is the main component being traded by each team.  I'd prefer Kuzma (such that I'm fine giving up some late 1st's to get it done), especially with the team makeup, but that may just be a personal preference.

I can't say I have a strong enough opinion on Kuzma to debate him, but I am really fearful of the idea of losing Smart. In addition to being our best perimeter defender, I feel like he really makes our team more versatile in that he has the strength to guard much bigger players for a few possessions with some success, which is something our team really lacks (I believe he even annoyed Giannis for a few possessions). I would definitely be scared to lose this and Bradley definitely can not guard bigger players the way smart can (even if I had confidence he could stay healthy). In general it stinks we don't have more trade able salaries.
Yeah Bradley can't do that anymore, but Brown can.  And frankly I think Brown is the team's best perimeter defender.  Smart plays hard and is definitely a good defender, but I do think he is overrated in much the same way Crowder was when he was here.  I remember all of the people saying we couldn't lose Crowder for many of the reasons that people express about losing Smart.  The team was fine without Crowder (actually got better on wing defense) and I think they'd be fine without Smart.  The team would also get a lot better on offense, both in adding a solid offensive player like Kuzma (and the better shooting Bradley) but also in removing one of the worst shooters in league history.  Smart quite simply is an epically bad shooter, which makes him overall a very bad (if not epically bad) offensive player.  Boston went 7-2 without Smart during his 9 game absence for a reason.  I get 9 games isn't a huge sample size, but it is like a quarter of the season so far.  And that is without adding anyone to replace him. 

I think Smart's perceived value has always been overrated on this board, but it has reached insane levels this year when people were touting him as an all star caliber player.  That is not Smart.  He is a role player.  Always has been and always will be.  I think Kuzma has far greater top end potential than that.  And while Bradley is older, injury prone, and not what he once was, I do think he can give you 75% of what Smart can defensively, while at the same improving the offensive fit given his vastly superior shooting (and his knowledge of knowing when not to shoot).
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Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2020, 01:36:21 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Smart, Semi, Green, BOS 1st, MIL 1st

for

Kuzma, Bradley, Cousins

I think I'd do that even believing Cousins won't come back this year.  I just think Kuzma would be a real nice fit on the team and think Bradley could give you much of what Smart does (though not as well).

Post Trade
PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards
Wings - Brown, Hayward, Bradley, Langford
Swings - Tatum, Kuzma, G. Williams
Bigs - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams, Poirier, Cousins?

Lakers get Smart who can be their do everything type player and is basically an improved version of Bradley and Rondo at this point.  Add Semi as a defender down low.  They also get a couple of late 1st's to replenish their young players or that they can use in trades.

Not sure either team does it, but I think it is a reasonable enough trade value wise for both teams.

Bradley is extremely injury prone. He has played in 23 of their 37 games this year, 63 last year, 46 the year before that and 55 the year before that. Smart gets a bit banged up himself but his low the last 3 years was 54 and every other year he has been above 60 with a 79 and 80 game season in the last 3 years. Given that Bradley is in his 9th or 10th season I only expect this to get worse. I don't have a strong opinion on Kuzma, but where would he get the minutes with Hayward, Tatum, and Brown? I would like to somehow take a flier on Cousins because i have read there is a belief he may come back this season. With Howard and Mghee on the roster we could certainly use one of those three guys for a playoff run (least into javale), but I doubt Lakers would do anything to help us out.
Kuzma is a straight up 4.  I imagine he would get in the 24-30 minute range playing PF with Tatum picking up the rest if that trade went through (Tatum would get the rest of his minutes at SF when Hayward was on the bench).  Brown would get only SG minutes with Bradley/Langford taking the rest.  I think it would work just fine, but I like Kuzma.  Not a world beater, but I think he would fit in well and is a real PF, something the team could use and gets Tatum more time at his more natural SF position.  I don't think Cousins is going to play this year.  If he does it is a bonus.  If he doesn't, he expires, but maybe Boston and him like his rehab time here and he comes back on another 1 year prove it type contract.

The trade I proposed essentially comes down to what you think of the Kuzma/Smart portion as that really is the main component being traded by each team.  I'd prefer Kuzma (such that I'm fine giving up some late 1st's to get it done), especially with the team makeup, but that may just be a personal preference.

I can't say I have a strong enough opinion on Kuzma to debate him, but I am really fearful of the idea of losing Smart. In addition to being our best perimeter defender, I feel like he really makes our team more versatile in that he has the strength to guard much bigger players for a few possessions with some success, which is something our team really lacks (I believe he even annoyed Giannis for a few possessions). I would definitely be scared to lose this and Bradley definitely can not guard bigger players the way smart can (even if I had confidence he could stay healthy). In general it stinks we don't have more trade able salaries.
Yeah Bradley can't do that anymore, but Brown can.  And frankly I think Brown is the team's best perimeter defender.  Smart plays hard and is definitely a good defender, but I do think he is overrated in much the same way Crowder was when he was here.  I remember all of the people saying we couldn't lose Crowder for many of the reasons that people express about losing Smart.  The team was fine without Crowder (actually got better on wing defense) and I think they'd be fine without Smart.  The team would also get a lot better on offense, both in adding a solid offensive player like Kuzma (and the better shooting Bradley) but also in removing one of the worst shooters in league history.  Smart quite simply is an epically bad shooter, which makes him overall a very bad (if not epically bad) offensive player.  Boston went 7-2 without Smart during his 9 game absence for a reason.  I get 9 games isn't a huge sample size, but it is like a quarter of the season so far.  And that is without adding anyone to replace him. 

I think Smart's perceived value has always been overrated on this board, but it has reached insane levels this year when people were touting him as an all star caliber player.  That is not Smart.  He is a role player.  Always has been and always will be.  I think Kuzma has far greater top end potential than that.  And while Bradley is older, injury prone, and not what he once was, I do think he can give you 75% of what Smart can defensively, while at the same improving the offensive fit given his vastly superior shooting (and his knowledge of knowing when not to shoot).

How good a shooter is Bradley right now? He shot 35% last year across the two teams from 3 (Smart was at 36%). This year Bradley is at 26% on a little under 3 attempts a game (it is not a tiny volume thing) smart is at 31%. I think Bradley is a better shooter, but he really isn't great right now. Given all his injuries over the year it is possible to think he has lost a little bit of touch.

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2020, 03:05:31 PM »

Offline gouki88

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When Marcus Smart shouldn't be allowed to shoot the ball much, but Kyle Kuzma is a "good enough" shooter.  ???
Absolutely mystifying.

Giving the Lakers & LeBron Marcus Smart should disgust Celtics fans.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2020, 03:29:30 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Yeah gouki88, it bothers me to see Rondo/Bradley in that uniform too. Didn't sting so much when it was Bass though  ;). TP

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2020, 04:04:22 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Yeah gouki88, it bothers me to see Rondo/Bradley in that uniform too. Didn't sting so much when it was Bass though  ;). TP
Agree wholeheartedly. Rondo in purple and gold is gross.

I’d happily see them take Tyler Zeller onboard though
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2020, 03:15:03 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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The Sacramento Kings offered the Los Angeles Lakers a package of Nemanja Bjelica and a draft pick for Kyle Kuzma, league sources told Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer.

The Lakers countered by asking for Bogdan Bogdanovic, which the Kings refused.

The Ringer adds that the Kings have declined other offers for Bogdanovic.

Bogdanovic, a restricted free agent this summer, is averaging 14.6 points and 3.3 assists on the season.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/1/30/21114695/trade-deadline-aaron-gordon-marcus-smart-bogdan-bogdanovic

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2020, 03:29:20 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Smart, Semi, Green, BOS 1st, MIL 1st

for

Kuzma, Bradley, Cousins

I think I'd do that even believing Cousins won't come back this year.  I just think Kuzma would be a real nice fit on the team and think Bradley could give you much of what Smart does (though not as well).

Post Trade
PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards
Wings - Brown, Hayward, Bradley, Langford
Swings - Tatum, Kuzma, G. Williams
Bigs - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams, Poirier, Cousins?

Lakers get Smart who can be their do everything type player and is basically an improved version of Bradley and Rondo at this point.  Add Semi as a defender down low.  They also get a couple of late 1st's to replenish their young players or that they can use in trades.

Not sure either team does it, but I think it is a reasonable enough trade value wise for both teams.

Bradley is extremely injury prone. He has played in 23 of their 37 games this year, 63 last year, 46 the year before that and 55 the year before that. Smart gets a bit banged up himself but his low the last 3 years was 54 and every other year he has been above 60 with a 79 and 80 game season in the last 3 years. Given that Bradley is in his 9th or 10th season I only expect this to get worse. I don't have a strong opinion on Kuzma, but where would he get the minutes with Hayward, Tatum, and Brown? I would like to somehow take a flier on Cousins because i have read there is a belief he may come back this season. With Howard and Mghee on the roster we could certainly use one of those three guys for a playoff run (least into javale), but I doubt Lakers would do anything to help us out.
Kuzma is a straight up 4.  I imagine he would get in the 24-30 minute range playing PF with Tatum picking up the rest if that trade went through (Tatum would get the rest of his minutes at SF when Hayward was on the bench).  Brown would get only SG minutes with Bradley/Langford taking the rest.  I think it would work just fine, but I like Kuzma.  Not a world beater, but I think he would fit in well and is a real PF, something the team could use and gets Tatum more time at his more natural SF position.  I don't think Cousins is going to play this year.  If he does it is a bonus.  If he doesn't, he expires, but maybe Boston and him like his rehab time here and he comes back on another 1 year prove it type contract.

The trade I proposed essentially comes down to what you think of the Kuzma/Smart portion as that really is the main component being traded by each team.  I'd prefer Kuzma (such that I'm fine giving up some late 1st's to get it done), especially with the team makeup, but that may just be a personal preference.

I can't say I have a strong enough opinion on Kuzma to debate him, but I am really fearful of the idea of losing Smart. In addition to being our best perimeter defender, I feel like he really makes our team more versatile in that he has the strength to guard much bigger players for a few possessions with some success, which is something our team really lacks (I believe he even annoyed Giannis for a few possessions). I would definitely be scared to lose this and Bradley definitely can not guard bigger players the way smart can (even if I had confidence he could stay healthy). In general it stinks we don't have more trade able salaries.
Yeah Bradley can't do that anymore, but Brown can.  And frankly I think Brown is the team's best perimeter defender.  Smart plays hard and is definitely a good defender, but I do think he is overrated in much the same way Crowder was when he was here.  I remember all of the people saying we couldn't lose Crowder for many of the reasons that people express about losing Smart.  The team was fine without Crowder (actually got better on wing defense) and I think they'd be fine without Smart.  The team would also get a lot better on offense, both in adding a solid offensive player like Kuzma (and the better shooting Bradley) but also in removing one of the worst shooters in league history.  Smart quite simply is an epically bad shooter, which makes him overall a very bad (if not epically bad) offensive player.  Boston went 7-2 without Smart during his 9 game absence for a reason.  I get 9 games isn't a huge sample size, but it is like a quarter of the season so far.  And that is without adding anyone to replace him. 

I think Smart's perceived value has always been overrated on this board, but it has reached insane levels this year when people were touting him as an all star caliber player.  That is not Smart.  He is a role player.  Always has been and always will be.  I think Kuzma has far greater top end potential than that.  And while Bradley is older, injury prone, and not what he once was, I do think he can give you 75% of what Smart can defensively, while at the same improving the offensive fit given his vastly superior shooting (and his knowledge of knowing when not to shoot).
I don't think there were people touting him as a bonafide All-Star this season, we were talking about him in the sub All-Star range (top 60ish player). Your underrating of Smart, however, has reached insane levels now that you're comparing him to Jae Crowder :laugh: as well as believing that a long toothed Avery Bradley can give a team 75% of what Smart does defensively (even with the argument that Smart's defence might have dropped off this year).
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 08:15:28 AM by Somebody »
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2020, 05:19:34 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Smart, Semi, Green, BOS 1st, MIL 1st

for

Kuzma, Bradley, Cousins

I think I'd do that even believing Cousins won't come back this year.  I just think Kuzma would be a real nice fit on the team and think Bradley could give you much of what Smart does (though not as well).

Post Trade
PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards
Wings - Brown, Hayward, Bradley, Langford
Swings - Tatum, Kuzma, G. Williams
Bigs - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams, Poirier, Cousins?

Lakers get Smart who can be their do everything type player and is basically an improved version of Bradley and Rondo at this point.  Add Semi as a defender down low.  They also get a couple of late 1st's to replenish their young players or that they can use in trades.

Not sure either team does it, but I think it is a reasonable enough trade value wise for both teams.
I would hate to loose Marcus but that is not a bad deal for us or for them.

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2020, 07:17:17 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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TP for the detailed reporting of the actual trade offers that were exchanged. I think Kuzma is staying put  given the Lakers asking price and what's actually available for him.

I think we could really use some shooting off the bench, ideally at the guard position, but I think any player we grab needs to be comfortable with limited touches and still bombing threes. Kuzma doesn't really fit that at all, do we really want a poor shooter who needs the ball to push Hayward to 5th in usage?

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2020, 07:36:56 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Smart, Semi, Green, BOS 1st, MIL 1st

for

Kuzma, Bradley, Cousins

I think I'd do that even believing Cousins won't come back this year.  I just think Kuzma would be a real nice fit on the team and think Bradley could give you much of what Smart does (though not as well).

Post Trade
PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards
Wings - Brown, Hayward, Bradley, Langford
Swings - Tatum, Kuzma, G. Williams
Bigs - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams, Poirier, Cousins?

Lakers get Smart who can be their do everything type player and is basically an improved version of Bradley and Rondo at this point.  Add Semi as a defender down low.  They also get a couple of late 1st's to replenish their young players or that they can use in trades.

Not sure either team does it, but I think it is a reasonable enough trade value wise for both teams.
It'd be reasonable if we were the ones getting two firsts in return.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2020, 08:21:01 AM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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I don't know why the Celtics would want Kuzma. He's a mediocre 3-point shooter. He's a mediocre rebounder. He's an average defender on the best of days.

Re: Stein: Kings want Kuzma
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2020, 08:44:33 AM »

Online Phantom255x

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The Sacramento Kings offered the Los Angeles Lakers a package of Nemanja Bjelica and a draft pick for Kyle Kuzma, league sources told Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer.

The Lakers countered by asking for Bogdan Bogdanovic, which the Kings refused.

The Ringer adds that the Kings have declined other offers for Bogdanovic.

Bogdanovic, a restricted free agent this summer, is averaging 14.6 points and 3.3 assists on the season.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/1/30/21114695/trade-deadline-aaron-gordon-marcus-smart-bogdan-bogdanovic

This tells me Kuzma's trade value isn't really high. Like, he can still get you something solid, but nothing all-star level. Not to say Bogdanovic is an all-star talent this season, but he still is a great player.

I see the Lakers going hard after D-Rose, but there'll be competition. And for LAL, it'll take Kuzma, their own 2020 1st + Bradley to likely get it done, maybe add another player if you want Morris in return too
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 08:49:43 AM by Phantom255x »
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