Bulpett: ‘Extremely Active’ Celtics Looking to Future at Trade Deadline

[Celtics2021]

So Brad has to trade the veterans to force Udoka to play the youngsters? That’s ridiculous.

Making long term personnel decisions based on Udoka’s rookie coaching performance is asinine. A non-Schroder/Fernando trade is a short sighted move that BS will pass on.

He has the core playing heavy minutes while in a switch-everything defense and an uptempo offense, and you wonder why the team is one of the worst 4th Quarter teams! Either use the depth or intermittently change to a zone and/or ISO offense. Stamina isn’t only a thing on video games and it’s affecting the team’s performance. Get a clue!

Ummmm.....uptempo offense?

Are you watching the same team the rest of us are watching?

Is attempting to execute an uptempo offense and failing an uptempo offense or does the attempt not count because it failed?

Getting this team to play uptempo has been part of Udoka’s mission statement. I notice the attempt to push the pace, do you?

Once opposing teams impede the the ball handlers progress, the fast break is over with this team unless it’s Jaylen. The team often tries to get out in transition only to have settle into their half court offense. The attempt to push the pace is still there.

By the 4th quarter our playmakers are running on fumes with Tatum often crossing mid court with only 16-17 left on the shot clock.

The point of the post stands. Roster changes won’t address Udoka’s terrible coaching like his tendency to spam blitz packages all game without utilizing the depth leading to this team serving up 4th quarter specials as if they had Fernando Rodney in the closing lineup!

There has not been any attempt to push the pace, even after turnovers. Scal has made mention of this often. On the last nationally televised ESPN game, I think it was Doris Brooke pointing it out several times.

It's been a constant throughout this year that the team gets a turnover or a rebound then walk the ball up the court. At times, not often, the team jogs up the court but doesn't try to score in transition but waits for their team mates to get on the offensive side of the court to run their half court set. By then, in both cases, the opposition has set their defense making it more difficult to score.

And the stats point this out. The Celtics are 25th in pace and 24th in fast break points.

The Celtics are in no way playing uptempo basketball or attempting in any way to play uptempo basketball. The eye test is verified by the stats. Using this argument to point out that's why the team is bad in the 4th quarter is a terrible observation.

Now I do think the rotation players are playing too much at times? Yup! But some minutes are okay. The Jays playing 35-36 MPG is good. Timelord at 30 MPG is good. Richardson at 25 MPG is good. Grant at 22 MPG is fine. But elsewhere on the roster there needs to be some change to open up minutes for others. Horford, Smart and Schröder need their minutes reduced. This should open more time for the three youngsters.

Payton isn't a PG, but the stats of him playing above and below 20 MPG are pretty telling. So you should try to find 20 MPG for him. Langford should be seeing about that much. So the only way to get those two those minutes is reducing Smart's minutes by 3-4 minutes and trading Schröder for cap relief/a pick.

Nesmith might need for someone to get hurt or wait until next year to see meaningful minutes.

Regarding Pace, Smart leads the team outside of guys who’ve largely appeared in garbage time.  The team is slowest when TL is on the court.  Of the guards, it’s unsurprising that it Schröder who trails.

[nickagneta]

So Brad has to trade the veterans to force Udoka to play the youngsters? That’s ridiculous.

Making long term personnel decisions based on Udoka’s rookie coaching performance is asinine. A non-Schroder/Fernando trade is a short sighted move that BS will pass on.

He has the core playing heavy minutes while in a switch-everything defense and an uptempo offense, and you wonder why the team is one of the worst 4th Quarter teams! Either use the depth or intermittently change to a zone and/or ISO offense. Stamina isn’t only a thing on video games and it’s affecting the team’s performance. Get a clue!

Ummmm.....uptempo offense?

Are you watching the same team the rest of us are watching?

Is attempting to execute an uptempo offense and failing an uptempo offense or does the attempt not count because it failed?

Getting this team to play uptempo has been part of Udoka’s mission statement. I notice the attempt to push the pace, do you?

Once opposing teams impede the the ball handlers progress, the fast break is over with this team unless it’s Jaylen. The team often tries to get out in transition only to have settle into their half court offense. The attempt to push the pace is still there.

By the 4th quarter our playmakers are running on fumes with Tatum often crossing mid court with only 16-17 left on the shot clock.

The point of the post stands. Roster changes won’t address Udoka’s terrible coaching like his tendency to spam blitz packages all game without utilizing the depth leading to this team serving up 4th quarter specials as if they had Fernando Rodney in the closing lineup!

There has not been any attempt to push the pace, even after turnovers. Scal has made mention of this often. On the last nationally televised ESPN game, I think it was Doris Brooke pointing it out several times.

It's been a constant throughout this year that the team gets a turnover or a rebound then walk the ball up the court. At times, not often, the team jogs up the court but doesn't try to score in transition but waits for their team mates to get on the offensive side of the court to run their half court set. By then, in both cases, the opposition has set their defense making it more difficult to score.

And the stats point this out. The Celtics are 25th in pace and 24th in fast break points.

The Celtics are in no way playing uptempo basketball or attempting in any way to play uptempo basketball. The eye test is verified by the stats. Using this argument to point out that's why the team is bad in the 4th quarter is a terrible observation.

Now I do think the rotation players are playing too much at times? Yup! But some minutes are okay. The Jays playing 35-36 MPG is good. Timelord at 30 MPG is good. Richardson at 25 MPG is good. Grant at 22 MPG is fine. But elsewhere on the roster there needs to be some change to open up minutes for others. Horford, Smart and Schröder need their minutes reduced. This should open more time for the three youngsters.

Payton isn't a PG, but the stats of him playing above and below 20 MPG are pretty telling. So you should try to find 20 MPG for him. Langford should be seeing about that much. So the only way to get those two those minutes is reducing Smart's minutes by 3-4 minutes and trading Schröder for cap relief/a pick.

Nesmith might need for someone to get hurt or wait until next year to see meaningful minutes.

Regarding Pace, Smart leads the team outside of guys who’ve largely appeared in garbage time.  The team is slowest when TL is on the court.  Of the guards, it’s unsurprising that it Schröder who trails.

Yes, but even the individual pace for Smart is around average to below average with everyone else on the team being below to well below average.

This team doesn't push pace or play uptempo. Their transition offense is at times almost non-existent.

[Celtics2021]

So Brad has to trade the veterans to force Udoka to play the youngsters? That’s ridiculous.

Making long term personnel decisions based on Udoka’s rookie coaching performance is asinine. A non-Schroder/Fernando trade is a short sighted move that BS will pass on.

He has the core playing heavy minutes while in a switch-everything defense and an uptempo offense, and you wonder why the team is one of the worst 4th Quarter teams! Either use the depth or intermittently change to a zone and/or ISO offense. Stamina isn’t only a thing on video games and it’s affecting the team’s performance. Get a clue!

Ummmm.....uptempo offense?

Are you watching the same team the rest of us are watching?

Is attempting to execute an uptempo offense and failing an uptempo offense or does the attempt not count because it failed?

Getting this team to play uptempo has been part of Udoka’s mission statement. I notice the attempt to push the pace, do you?

Once opposing teams impede the the ball handlers progress, the fast break is over with this team unless it’s Jaylen. The team often tries to get out in transition only to have settle into their half court offense. The attempt to push the pace is still there.

By the 4th quarter our playmakers are running on fumes with Tatum often crossing mid court with only 16-17 left on the shot clock.

The point of the post stands. Roster changes won’t address Udoka’s terrible coaching like his tendency to spam blitz packages all game without utilizing the depth leading to this team serving up 4th quarter specials as if they had Fernando Rodney in the closing lineup!

There has not been any attempt to push the pace, even after turnovers. Scal has made mention of this often. On the last nationally televised ESPN game, I think it was Doris Brooke pointing it out several times.

It's been a constant throughout this year that the team gets a turnover or a rebound then walk the ball up the court. At times, not often, the team jogs up the court but doesn't try to score in transition but waits for their team mates to get on the offensive side of the court to run their half court set. By then, in both cases, the opposition has set their defense making it more difficult to score.

And the stats point this out. The Celtics are 25th in pace and 24th in fast break points.

The Celtics are in no way playing uptempo basketball or attempting in any way to play uptempo basketball. The eye test is verified by the stats. Using this argument to point out that's why the team is bad in the 4th quarter is a terrible observation.

Now I do think the rotation players are playing too much at times? Yup! But some minutes are okay. The Jays playing 35-36 MPG is good. Timelord at 30 MPG is good. Richardson at 25 MPG is good. Grant at 22 MPG is fine. But elsewhere on the roster there needs to be some change to open up minutes for others. Horford, Smart and Schröder need their minutes reduced. This should open more time for the three youngsters.

Payton isn't a PG, but the stats of him playing above and below 20 MPG are pretty telling. So you should try to find 20 MPG for him. Langford should be seeing about that much. So the only way to get those two those minutes is reducing Smart's minutes by 3-4 minutes and trading Schröder for cap relief/a pick.

Nesmith might need for someone to get hurt or wait until next year to see meaningful minutes.

Regarding Pace, Smart leads the team outside of guys who’ve largely appeared in garbage time.  The team is slowest when TL is on the court.  Of the guards, it’s unsurprising that it Schröder who trails.

Yes, but even the individual pace for Smart is around average to below average with everyone else on the team being below to well below average.

This team doesn't push pace or play uptempo. Their transition offense is at times almost non-existent.

Oh, I agree.  I'm just saying that a different PG isn't likely to change the pace the team plays with dramatically.  It's a plodding team, which is unfortunate given how elite Tatum and Jaylen are in the open court.  I do think that Rob Williams is partly to blame.  He's not comfortable getting a defensive rebound and quickly passing the ball, which gives the defense a better chance to set up.  Maybe that's the next improvement he needs to make to his game, as opposed to extending his shot.  If he could advance the ball off a rebound rather than just waiting for someone to come get the ball from him, the Celtics could get a few more easy points a game.

[nickagneta]

So Brad has to trade the veterans to force Udoka to play the youngsters? That’s ridiculous.

Making long term personnel decisions based on Udoka’s rookie coaching performance is asinine. A non-Schroder/Fernando trade is a short sighted move that BS will pass on.

He has the core playing heavy minutes while in a switch-everything defense and an uptempo offense, and you wonder why the team is one of the worst 4th Quarter teams! Either use the depth or intermittently change to a zone and/or ISO offense. Stamina isn’t only a thing on video games and it’s affecting the team’s performance. Get a clue!

Ummmm.....uptempo offense?

Are you watching the same team the rest of us are watching?

Is attempting to execute an uptempo offense and failing an uptempo offense or does the attempt not count because it failed?

Getting this team to play uptempo has been part of Udoka’s mission statement. I notice the attempt to push the pace, do you?

Once opposing teams impede the the ball handlers progress, the fast break is over with this team unless it’s Jaylen. The team often tries to get out in transition only to have settle into their half court offense. The attempt to push the pace is still there.

By the 4th quarter our playmakers are running on fumes with Tatum often crossing mid court with only 16-17 left on the shot clock.

The point of the post stands. Roster changes won’t address Udoka’s terrible coaching like his tendency to spam blitz packages all game without utilizing the depth leading to this team serving up 4th quarter specials as if they had Fernando Rodney in the closing lineup!

There has not been any attempt to push the pace, even after turnovers. Scal has made mention of this often. On the last nationally televised ESPN game, I think it was Doris Brooke pointing it out several times.

It's been a constant throughout this year that the team gets a turnover or a rebound then walk the ball up the court. At times, not often, the team jogs up the court but doesn't try to score in transition but waits for their team mates to get on the offensive side of the court to run their half court set. By then, in both cases, the opposition has set their defense making it more difficult to score.

And the stats point this out. The Celtics are 25th in pace and 24th in fast break points.

The Celtics are in no way playing uptempo basketball or attempting in any way to play uptempo basketball. The eye test is verified by the stats. Using this argument to point out that's why the team is bad in the 4th quarter is a terrible observation.

Now I do think the rotation players are playing too much at times? Yup! But some minutes are okay. The Jays playing 35-36 MPG is good. Timelord at 30 MPG is good. Richardson at 25 MPG is good. Grant at 22 MPG is fine. But elsewhere on the roster there needs to be some change to open up minutes for others. Horford, Smart and Schröder need their minutes reduced. This should open more time for the three youngsters.

Payton isn't a PG, but the stats of him playing above and below 20 MPG are pretty telling. So you should try to find 20 MPG for him. Langford should be seeing about that much. So the only way to get those two those minutes is reducing Smart's minutes by 3-4 minutes and trading Schröder for cap relief/a pick.

Nesmith might need for someone to get hurt or wait until next year to see meaningful minutes.

Regarding Pace, Smart leads the team outside of guys who’ve largely appeared in garbage time.  The team is slowest when TL is on the court.  Of the guards, it’s unsurprising that it Schröder who trails.

Yes, but even the individual pace for Smart is around average to below average with everyone else on the team being below to well below average.

This team doesn't push pace or play uptempo. Their transition offense is at times almost non-existent.

Oh, I agree.  I'm just saying that a different PG isn't likely to change the pace the team plays with dramatically.  It's a plodding team, which is unfortunate given how elite Tatum and Jaylen are in the open court.  I do think that Rob Williams is partly to blame.  He's not comfortable getting a defensive rebound and quickly passing the ball, which gives the defense a better chance to set up.  Maybe that's the next improvement he needs to make to his game, as opposed to extending his shot.  If he could advance the ball off a rebound rather than just waiting for someone to come get the ball from him, the Celtics could get a few more easy points a game.

Some of the problem is also scheme. Ime doesn't have any true transition offense schemes that have players at the top of the three point line break down court after a shot and ball handlers leak out to top of the three point line extended at receive an outlet pass to push the ball up court immediately.

The go to appears to be, for Williams, Grant, and Freedom to gather and wait for a ball handler, for Horford to bring it up quick and initiate the half court set and everyone else just walk or slow jog the ball up court.

This team is made for transition offense given their defensive proclivities(steals, deflections, blocks, ability to get stops) and young athletes. Brown is a monster in transition. Tatum should be too. Smart is very good at it though at times his decision making in this regard needs improvement. Schröder should be great at it.

The pieces are there. The coach isn't doing anything with them.

[tenn_smoothie]

I am not sold at all on the Tatum-Brown tandem. They have been making the same dumb mistakes for several seasons now and seem oblivious to correcting them. Lack of mental focus for a full game and questions about their competitive appetite for winning games are huge issues in my book. They still are redundant and just seem to take turns doing the same thing, just from different sides of the court.

Only remedy I see is a Chris Paul type player/competitor coming in to run things on the floor along with a very good coach to straighten this mess out and create a team that plays together, compliments each other and plays smart basketball. If even with that, Tatum or Brown just refuse to change, you would have to make a trade. Gotta have solid on-court chemistry to win titles.

[pokeKingCurtis]

So Brad has to trade the veterans to force Udoka to play the youngsters? That’s ridiculous.

Making long term personnel decisions based on Udoka’s rookie coaching performance is asinine. A non-Schroder/Fernando trade is a short sighted move that BS will pass on.

He has the core playing heavy minutes while in a switch-everything defense and an uptempo offense, and you wonder why the team is one of the worst 4th Quarter teams! Either use the depth or intermittently change to a zone and/or ISO offense. Stamina isn’t only a thing on video games and it’s affecting the team’s performance. Get a clue!

Ummmm.....uptempo offense?

Are you watching the same team the rest of us are watching?

Is attempting to execute an uptempo offense and failing an uptempo offense or does the attempt not count because it failed?

Getting this team to play uptempo has been part of Udoka’s mission statement. I notice the attempt to push the pace, do you?

Once opposing teams impede the the ball handlers progress, the fast break is over with this team unless it’s Jaylen. The team often tries to get out in transition only to have settle into their half court offense. The attempt to push the pace is still there.

By the 4th quarter our playmakers are running on fumes with Tatum often crossing mid court with only 16-17 left on the shot clock.

The point of the post stands. Roster changes won’t address Udoka’s terrible coaching like his tendency to spam blitz packages all game without utilizing the depth leading to this team serving up 4th quarter specials as if they had Fernando Rodney in the closing lineup!

There has not been any attempt to push the pace, even after turnovers. Scal has made mention of this often. On the last nationally televised ESPN game, I think it was Doris Brooke pointing it out several times.

It's been a constant throughout this year that the team gets a turnover or a rebound then walk the ball up the court. At times, not often, the team jogs up the court but doesn't try to score in transition but waits for their team mates to get on the offensive side of the court to run their half court set. By then, in both cases, the opposition has set their defense making it more difficult to score.

And the stats point this out. The Celtics are 25th in pace and 24th in fast break points.

The Celtics are in no way playing uptempo basketball or attempting in any way to play uptempo basketball. The eye test is verified by the stats. Using this argument to point out that's why the team is bad in the 4th quarter is a terrible observation.

Now I do think the rotation players are playing too much at times? Yup! But some minutes are okay. The Jays playing 35-36 MPG is good. Timelord at 30 MPG is good. Richardson at 25 MPG is good. Grant at 22 MPG is fine. But elsewhere on the roster there needs to be some change to open up minutes for others. Horford, Smart and Schröder need their minutes reduced. This should open more time for the three youngsters.

Payton isn't a PG, but the stats of him playing above and below 20 MPG are pretty telling. So you should try to find 20 MPG for him. Langford should be seeing about that much. So the only way to get those two those minutes is reducing Smart's minutes by 3-4 minutes and trading Schröder for cap relief/a pick.

Nesmith might need for someone to get hurt or wait until next year to see meaningful minutes.

Regarding Pace, Smart leads the team outside of guys who’ve largely appeared in garbage time.  The team is slowest when TL is on the court.  Of the guards, it’s unsurprising that it Schröder who trails.

Yes, but even the individual pace for Smart is around average to below average with everyone else on the team being below to well below average.

This team doesn't push pace or play uptempo. Their transition offense is at times almost non-existent.

Oh, I agree.  I'm just saying that a different PG isn't likely to change the pace the team plays with dramatically.  It's a plodding team, which is unfortunate given how elite Tatum and Jaylen are in the open court.  I do think that Rob Williams is partly to blame.  He's not comfortable getting a defensive rebound and quickly passing the ball, which gives the defense a better chance to set up.  Maybe that's the next improvement he needs to make to his game, as opposed to extending his shot.  If he could advance the ball off a rebound rather than just waiting for someone to come get the ball from him, the Celtics could get a few more easy points a game.

Some of the problem is also scheme. Ime doesn't have any true transition offense schemes that have players at the top of the three point line break down court after a shot and ball handlers leak out to top of the three point line extended at receive an outlet pass to push the ball up court immediately.

The go to appears to be, for Williams, Grant, and Freedom to gather and wait for a ball handler, for Horford to bring it up quick and initiate the half court set and everyone else just walk or slow jog the ball up court.

This team is made for transition offense given their defensive proclivities(steals, deflections, blocks, ability to get stops) and young athletes. Brown is a monster in transition. Tatum should be too. Smart is very good at it though at times his decision making in this regard needs improvement. Schröder should be great at it.

The pieces are there. The coach isn't doing anything with them.

Just pushing the ball and running a basic fast break is so much better...

Trade Schroeder and get it over with. He's been slowing the pace down.

[LilRip]

I am not sold at all on the Tatum-Brown tandem. They have been making the same dumb mistakes for several seasons now and seem oblivious to correcting them. Lack of mental focus for a full game and questions about their competitive appetite for winning games are huge issues in my book. They still are redundant and just seem to take turns doing the same thing, just from different sides of the court.

Only remedy I see is a Chris Paul type player/competitor coming in to run things on the floor along with a very good coach to straighten this mess out and create a team that plays together, compliments each other and plays smart basketball. If even with that, Tatum or Brown just refuse to change, you would have to make a trade. Gotta have solid on-court chemistry to win titles.

I wouldn’t question either’s desire to win. For me at least, it looks like they’re on the same page there. But the your-turn, my-turn pattern is a problem I think albeit it’s probably an unfair label. I think what’s really happening is that they don’t really actively do anything for each other, rather than this media-driven narrative of these 2 guys not getting along.

When one has the ball, the other one usually isn’t involved in the play, except to provide space by being a weak side threat (something either guy is probably happy to do for the other guy because they can check their egos). But like, can you recall the last time JT ran PnR with JB or vice versa? Can you recall JB throwing an entry pass into JT in the post or vice versa? Or JB cutting hard to act as a decoy to get JT open or vice versa? I don’t think this happens quite often.

So in essence, our top 2 guys don’t really “play off each other”. They get ISO’s or PnR opportunities, working with other players, while the other one acts as a kick out option by being in the corner or the wings. Nothing wrong with being a kick out option but you can have significantly less skilled players (like a Grant Williams) finishing off those catch & shoot possessions. Stated another way, our offense has us using elite, highly skilled talent, to complete a fairly pedestrian task. This is why the team feels like less than the sum of its parts, imo.

[W8ting2McHale]

When one has the ball, the other one usually isn’t involved in the play, except to provide space by being a weak side threat (something either guy is probably happy to do for the other guy because they can check their egos). But like, can you recall the last time JT ran PnR with JB or vice versa? Can you recall JB throwing an entry pass into JT in the post or vice versa? Or JB cutting hard to act as a decoy to get JT open or vice versa? I don’t think this happens quite often.

So in essence, our top 2 guys don’t really “play off each other”. They get ISO’s or PnR opportunities, working with other players, while the other one acts as a kick out option by being in the corner or the wings. Nothing wrong with being a kick out option but you can have significantly less skilled players (like a Grant Williams) finishing off those catch & shoot possessions. Stated another way, our offense has us using elite, highly skilled talent, to complete a fairly pedestrian task. This is why the team feels like less than the sum of its parts, imo.

TP - this is exactly what I have been seeing. I guess this is why people think they are playing the same role and can’t play together?

I think it’s a coaching and offense scheme issue. They need to be playing off each other instead of being a week side option.

The only reason I can think of as to why they do this is that:
1) Ime has no ability to draw up an offense that utilizes both and that he doesn’t think creatively. That seems wrong because he’s drawn up since decent ATO plays lately.
2) He’s trying to make things easier on the J’s by giving them an outlet that they know will be there. They don’t have to recognize a rotation because no one is moving. Instead it’s  making things more difficult for them - and the whole team - by oversimplification of everything.

So we’re back to the question of; are the J’s so bad at basketball that they can’t learn a more complicated offense, or does Ime not trust them to run a more complicated offense, or is Ime incapable of drawing up a more complicated offense?

Earlier this season he mentioned that Tatum plays better when he doesn’t overthink things, but he’s trying to learn new skills, so he slows down trying to execute and loses the plot. By now he should have enough reps to execute without thinking, but here we are.

We don’t know if Ime can draw up a complex offense because the stars don’t seem able to run one. I don’t know if Smart should be included in that, but if so, Brad needs to find a PG.

[SparzWizard]

When one has the ball, the other one usually isn’t involved in the play, except to provide space by being a weak side threat (something either guy is probably happy to do for the other guy because they can check their egos). But like, can you recall the last time JT ran PnR with JB or vice versa? Can you recall JB throwing an entry pass into JT in the post or vice versa? Or JB cutting hard to act as a decoy to get JT open or vice versa? I don’t think this happens quite often.

So in essence, our top 2 guys don’t really “play off each other”. They get ISO’s or PnR opportunities, working with other players, while the other one acts as a kick out option by being in the corner or the wings. Nothing wrong with being a kick out option but you can have significantly less skilled players (like a Grant Williams) finishing off those catch & shoot possessions. Stated another way, our offense has us using elite, highly skilled talent, to complete a fairly pedestrian task. This is why the team feels like less than the sum of its parts, imo.

TP - this is exactly what I have been seeing. I guess this is why people think they are playing the same role and can’t play together?

I think it’s a coaching and offense scheme issue. They need to be playing off each other instead of being a week side option.

The only reason I can think of as to why they do this is that:
1) Ime has no ability to draw up an offense that utilizes both and that he doesn’t think creatively. That seems wrong because he’s drawn up since decent ATO plays lately.
2) He’s trying to make things easier on the J’s by giving them an outlet that they know will be there. They don’t have to recognize a rotation because no one is moving. Instead it’s  making things more difficult for them - and the whole team - by oversimplification of everything.

So we’re back to the question of; are the J’s so bad at basketball that they can’t learn a more complicated offense, or does Ime not trust them to run a more complicated offense, or is Ime incapable of drawing up a more complicated offense?

Earlier this season he mentioned that Tatum plays better when he doesn’t overthink things, but he’s trying to learn new skills, so he slows down trying to execute and loses the plot. By now he should have enough reps to execute without thinking, but here we are.

We don’t know if Ime can draw up a complex offense because the stars don’t seem able to run one. I don’t know if Smart should be included in that, but if so, Brad needs to find a PG.

That's the problem...Ime's logic doesn't work well with the C's. In this case, blame and fire the coach

[RJ87]

When one has the ball, the other one usually isn’t involved in the play, except to provide space by being a weak side threat (something either guy is probably happy to do for the other guy because they can check their egos). But like, can you recall the last time JT ran PnR with JB or vice versa? Can you recall JB throwing an entry pass into JT in the post or vice versa? Or JB cutting hard to act as a decoy to get JT open or vice versa? I don’t think this happens quite often.

So in essence, our top 2 guys don’t really “play off each other”. They get ISO’s or PnR opportunities, working with other players, while the other one acts as a kick out option by being in the corner or the wings. Nothing wrong with being a kick out option but you can have significantly less skilled players (like a Grant Williams) finishing off those catch & shoot possessions. Stated another way, our offense has us using elite, highly skilled talent, to complete a fairly pedestrian task. This is why the team feels like less than the sum of its parts, imo.

TP - this is exactly what I have been seeing. I guess this is why people think they are playing the same role and can’t play together?

I think it’s a coaching and offense scheme issue. They need to be playing off each other instead of being a week side option.

The only reason I can think of as to why they do this is that:
1) Ime has no ability to draw up an offense that utilizes both and that he doesn’t think creatively. That seems wrong because he’s drawn up since decent ATO plays lately.
2) He’s trying to make things easier on the J’s by giving them an outlet that they know will be there. They don’t have to recognize a rotation because no one is moving. Instead it’s  making things more difficult for them - and the whole team - by oversimplification of everything.

So we’re back to the question of; are the J’s so bad at basketball that they can’t learn a more complicated offense, or does Ime not trust them to run a more complicated offense, or is Ime incapable of drawing up a more complicated offense?

Earlier this season he mentioned that Tatum plays better when he doesn’t overthink things, but he’s trying to learn new skills, so he slows down trying to execute and loses the plot. By now he should have enough reps to execute without thinking, but here we are.

We don’t know if Ime can draw up a complex offense because the stars don’t seem able to run one. I don’t know if Smart should be included in that, but if so, Brad needs to find a PG.

I actually think it's a bit of a different issue. The Jays start alongside 3 non-shooters. So if you're going to try to run action featuring the two of them, defenses will load up against it. The function as kick out options for each other because they're by far the best option on kick outs. If they're kicking it out to Smart, Al, or Rob, you're letting the defense off the hook.

Josh and Grant are having career best seasons from 3 and theoretically could help a bit by taking minutes from Al, but neither have reputations as snipers and opposing coaches aren't going to scheme against them.

Brad is in a bit of a pickle. The team's needs are clear, but Danny didn't leave him a lot in terms of upgrading the roster.

[wiley]

remember when Jim O'Brien took over from Pitino and the team suddenly started playing well as they became all about defense, with a very simplified offense.

Question to those who understand basketball, what would be the role of our current major players under a Jim O'Brien simplified offense?

(just curious..if anyone one finds it interesting enough to answer then I'd learn something)...

(I believe O'Brien preached rebounding, boxing out (of course) and defense...I don't know what his team did on offense...just remember that they simplified things).

[Roy H.]

remember when Jim O'Brien took over from Pitino and the team suddenly started playing well as they became all about defense, with a very simplified offense.

Question to those who understand basketball, what would be the role of our current major players under a Jim O'Brien simplified offense?

(just curious..if anyone one finds it interesting enough to answer then I'd learn something)...

(I believe O'Brien preached rebounding, boxing out (of course) and defense...I don't know what his team did on offense...just remember that they simplified things).

As I recall, lots and lots of threes, relative to the times.

[wiley]

remember when Jim O'Brien took over from Pitino and the team suddenly started playing well as they became all about defense, with a very simplified offense.

Question to those who understand basketball, what would be the role of our current major players under a Jim O'Brien simplified offense?

(just curious..if anyone one finds it interesting enough to answer then I'd learn something)...

(I believe O'Brien preached rebounding, boxing out (of course) and defense...I don't know what his team did on offense...just remember that they simplified things).

As I recall, lots and lots of threes, relative to the times.

I remember the threes too...interesting mix of old school and new school..

[Roy H.]

remember when Jim O'Brien took over from Pitino and the team suddenly started playing well as they became all about defense, with a very simplified offense.

Question to those who understand basketball, what would be the role of our current major players under a Jim O'Brien simplified offense?

(just curious..if anyone one finds it interesting enough to answer then I'd learn something)...

(I believe O'Brien preached rebounding, boxing out (of course) and defense...I don't know what his team did on offense...just remember that they simplified things).

As I recall, lots and lots of threes, relative to the times.

I remember the threes too...interesting mix of old school and new school..

It’s crazy how the league differed back then.  In O’Brien’s second full season, we led the league shooting 26 three attempts per game.  The next team only shot 20, and the last ranked team (76ers) shot fewer than nine threes per game!

[wiley]

remember when Jim O'Brien took over from Pitino and the team suddenly started playing well as they became all about defense, with a very simplified offense.

Question to those who understand basketball, what would be the role of our current major players under a Jim O'Brien simplified offense?

(just curious..if anyone one finds it interesting enough to answer then I'd learn something)...

(I believe O'Brien preached rebounding, boxing out (of course) and defense...I don't know what his team did on offense...just remember that they simplified things).

As I recall, lots and lots of threes, relative to the times.

I remember the threes too...interesting mix of old school and new school..

It’s crazy how the league differed back then.  In O’Brien’s second full season, we led the league shooting 26 three attempts per game.  The next team only shot 20, and the last ranked team (76ers) shot fewer than nine threes per game!

I loved watching Eric Williams and Walter....I'm guessing they accounted for 2/3 of the threes...(could be way off!..can't remember the exact makeup of the team)