Author Topic: Bulpett: ‘Extremely Active’ Celtics Looking to Future at Trade Deadline  (Read 7890 times)

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Offline #1P4P

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So Brad has to trade the veterans to force Udoka to play the youngsters? That’s ridiculous.

Making long term personnel decisions based on Udoka’s rookie coaching performance is asinine. A non-Schroder/Fernando trade is a short sighted move that BS will pass on.

He has the core playing heavy minutes while in a switch-everything defense and an uptempo offense, and you wonder why the team is one of the worst 4th Quarter teams! Either use the depth or intermittently change to a zone and/or ISO offense. Stamina isn’t only a thing on video games and it’s affecting the team’s performance. Get a clue!
Ummmm.....uptempo offense?

Are you watching the same team the rest of us are watching?
Is attempting to execute an uptempo offense and failing an uptempo offense or does the attempt not count because it failed?

Getting this team to play uptempo has been part of Udoka’s mission statement. I notice the attempt to push the pace, do you?

Once opposing teams impede the the ball handlers progress, the fast break is over with this team unless it’s Jaylen. The team often tries to get out in transition only to have settle into their half court offense. The attempt to push the pace is still there.

By the 4th quarter our playmakers are running on fumes with Tatum often crossing mid court with only 16-17 left on the shot clock.

The point of the post stands. Roster changes won’t address Udoka’s terrible coaching like his tendency to spam blitz packages all game without utilizing the depth leading to this team serving up 4th quarter specials as if they had Fernando Rodney in the closing lineup!

Offline trickybilly

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If Marcus does get traded, I hope it's to a serious contender.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Offline SparzWizard

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If Marcus does get traded, I hope it's to a serious contender.

I hope it's him being shipped to the West not named the Lakers. So the Celtics don't have to deal with his defensive hustle in the East. Although his 3-point shooting will shoot 'em out the game haha.


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Offline Rikibellevie

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Sounds like Brad is planning to correct his mistakes. He figured by tweaking the team with Horford, J Rich and Schroder we would be a contender, and now realizes that was foolish and has damaged the development of his younger players.

Yes but how is it possible that many of us, with our poor knowledge, were already sure about that and Brad didn't ? How Brad didn't think how the coach he choose would use the player he gave him ?

Right now we are even a step forward with last 2 years non sense Ange direction...
At least it is not that catastrophic for now as the right decision timeline is now and next summer... And no, it is not with just Brunson that we will solve our problems. We need a 3rd star and we can have the room this summer to bring him (even if Brad bad moove made us loose some assets maybe)

Offline colincb

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You don't trade Smart unless you get a starting caliber PG who is buried behind someone better (like Brunson). Next summer you can find a replacement easier between free agency and trades.  So, I'm skeptical that there are many teams we could move him to at the trade deadline.

I'm fine with keeping him too, but not as the lead PG. He's a decent ballhandler, an elite and versatile defender, and a sucky shooter whose offensive judgment leaves something to be desired. He could still improve as far as running an offense, but based on his track record, it takes a leap of faith that I don't have and I don't think the Celtics do after his audition so far. At least you don't hear his name in the same breath as the Js anymore and his shooting is what it is.

Still, an elite skill is valuable to teams. Thus, there will be plenty of suitors for Smart, but few if any good trading partners between today and the deadline.

Online Vermont Green

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“Alter[ing] a course charted with last summer’s transactions” seems to suggest Horford, Richardson, and Schroeder are all on the block.

Would love to essentially dump those guys and get a decent point guard in return.

I agree.  It seems to me these are the most likely to get traded.  These are all potentially useful players to teams with post season aspirations.  None of these are going to be key pieces for us moving forward.  It all depends on the details of any specific deal but I am fine trading any of these 3.

As to Smart, the other name mentioned often, I like Smart.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him for the right deal, but I do see him as more of a key piece moving forward.  I see it as less likely he gets traded.

As to Pritchard, Nesmith, Langford, I am still not sure these guys are actually good.  All of them have shown some potential, for sure.  They are probably the makings of good bench players at worst.  But I don't buy this idea that if you just play them more, they will get better.  Or that somehow Schroder and Richardson are blocking them from being able to develop.  You have to earn your minutes.  They haven't.  If we trade Schroder and Richardson and start playing Pritchard, Nesmith, Langford more, I don't believe the team is going to be better.  Maybe in the long run, maybe, but not in the short term.

Offline todd_days_41

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Does anyone here really believe Stevens is going to pull the trigger on a major move mid-season in his first year as Head of BO?

I’m not talking about shuffling deck chairs (Schroder dump, maybe Richardson) — I’m talking sending out Smart, Horford and / or picks.

I seriously doubt it, which means the team isn’t going to be much different. I’d lower your expectations if you’re expecting fireworks.

Offline Celtics2021

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Does anyone here really believe Stevens is going to pull the trigger on a major move mid-season in his first year as Head of BO?

I’m not talking about shuffling deck chairs (Schroder dump, maybe Richardson) — I’m talking sending out Smart, Horford and / or picks.

I seriously doubt it, which means the team isn’t going to be much different. I’d lower your expectations if you’re expecting fireworks.

I don’t think he’d be averse to it.  I just don’t think there’s going to be an offer that’s palatable.  He’s not trading Tatum/Brown, and everyone with a high priced #3 option wants to convert that guy into Ben Simmons, so they aren’t going to make a trade based around Smart/Horford and picks until that saga is over, barring the number of picks being astronomically high.

Stevens lacks neither confidence nor ownership’s faith.

All that said, it’s a seller’s market out there, and my hope is we move rotational players for prospects/picks and try again next year.  Barring us going on a run in the next two weeks, it seems likely this team is a play-in team with Schröder and Richardson or Langford and Pritchard in the rotation, so might as well do the latter and get something for the former.

Online Who

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Does anyone here really believe Stevens is going to pull the trigger on a major move mid-season in his first year as Head of BO?

No, not really.

(1) I still wonder whether he has enough of a backbone to make hard decisions. I still look at him as the Boy Scout who avoids confrontation, hold players accountable and lost his locker room.

(2) I worry about his patience and belief in following the process. Processes can be good if they are right processes. I worry they are not. I worry that Stevens is too patient and will not be aggressive enough pursuing ambitious change and instead of opting for gradual progress.

I am waiting to see if these assumptions / guesses prove accurate or not ... but right now, I am not confident in CBS as PBS.

I have been worried ever since we lost in Ainge. In Ainge I trusted.

Online Who

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As to Smart, the other name mentioned often, I like Smart.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him for the right deal, but I do see him as more of a key piece moving forward.  I see it as less likely he gets traded.

I don't view Smart as a key piece anymore. I did in the past. I viewed him as a core piece similar to someone like Anderson Varejao on the Cavs. One of the ultimate glue guys in the NBA who makes a big difference to W-L and is an above average starter despite low scoring numbers.

Since then, I have two issues:

(1) I feel that a decision needs to be made between Rob Williams and Marcus Smart. I am not convinced that these two guys can play together in big minute roles due to their offensive limitations. And given Rob Williams' improvement, room for further improvement and superior contract he looks the better guy to bet on than Smart.

The reason I am unconvinced of keeping both players is that I have a tough time seeing how we can build a good enough offense with both players on this team. They will need a 3rd great offensive player in order to cover their limitations and I am not sure we have the trade assets to land such a player. More likely we'll need two very good supporting offensive players next to Jaylen & Tatum and one of Smart / Rob will need to make way to make room for that 2nd guy.

(2) Smart has seen some drop-off on both ends of the floor. I believe most of his drop-off offensively is due to the position he is playing and the excessive offensive demands of that position as well as the decrease in easiest offensive opportunities created when he had a superior offensive guard next to him. That can be remedied.

The drop-off defensively is more worrying. He is still very good but you can already see him relying more on smarts than physical talent. I was worried 1-2 years ago of Smart having an early decline due to his body type (ala Ron Artest who I compare Smart to physically, a smaller version but similar bulky body type) and I believe we are already seeing the early stages of that.

I am unsure whether Smart is still capable of being an above average starter or if he has fallen off to being a middle of the pack starter which I feel is more likely to be the case. I only consider above average starters & stars as core pieces / key pieces. So I have dropped Smart from this.

I am open to keeping Smart if the other pieces around him are correct and allow him to function in a lesser role offensively but I do think we'll have to trade Rob Williams to make that happen and get a more skilled big man in to replace Rob. I doubt that happens. Smart is much more likely to be the one to leave.

Offline Rosco917

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Celtics brass must realize that this team as it stands is a floored team.

It's easy to say, so and so needs to be a floor general while being said floor general is a full time occupation that many are not willing to undertake, and frankly don't understand what it really takes. Because in todays NBA there's limited money available for making others around you better. Too many players are simply hired guns.

This team is strife with me, me, me players looking for recognition and pay-days before wins. No real shame here, as the entire NBA has a similar flavor to it. The league is flush with aimless teams with losing records who's players pay more attention to their hair than to playing winning basketball. Few teams have actually found that makeup of personalities that demand sacrifice in order to win, and the Celtics certainly are not one.

I'm hopeful that perhaps the C's are starting early to assemble players that will give Tatum a reason to remain a Celtic until he retires.
The clock is ticking.



 

Online Who

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Celtics brass must realize that this team as it stands is a floored team.

It's easy to say, so and so needs to be a floor general while being said floor general is a full time occupation that many are not willing to undertake, and frankly don't understand what it really takes. Because in todays NBA there's limited money available for making others around you better. Too many players are simply hired guns.

This team is strife with me, me, me players looking for recognition and pay-days before wins. No real shame here, as the entire NBA has a similar flavor to it. The league is flush with aimless teams with losing records who's players pay more attention to their hair than to playing winning basketball. Few teams have actually found that makeup of personalities that demand sacrifice in order to win, and the Celtics certainly are not one.

I'm hopeful that perhaps the C's are starting early to assemble players that will give Tatum a reason to remain a Celtic until he retires.
The clock is ticking.



 

There are so few PGs who are actual leaders and floor generals in today's NBA. The league doesn't make many players like this anymore due to:

(1) rule changes which have made it far easier for small ball-handlers to scorers and be successful with such a playing style

(2) AAU basketball where everybody is a star that plays 1 on 5 basketball and doesn't learn team fundamentals. So guys are coming into the league which much less knowledge of how to play the team game.



Given this, I am not optimistic about finding a PG who can fix the flaws of this current group of players. More likely is that the PG will only give a partial fix and will require further changes for more team offense orientated players 2-5 to build superior team passing & floor spacing for effective offense.

In other words, a new PG is part of the solution. Not THE solution. 

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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As to Smart, the other name mentioned often, I like Smart.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him for the right deal, but I do see him as more of a key piece moving forward.  I see it as less likely he gets traded.

I don't view Smart as a key piece anymore. I did in the past. I viewed him as a core piece similar to someone like Anderson Varejao on the Cavs. One of the ultimate glue guys in the NBA who makes a big difference to W-L and is an above average starter despite low scoring numbers.

Since then, I have two issues:

(1) I feel that a decision needs to be made between Rob Williams and Marcus Smart. I am not convinced that these two guys can play together in big minute roles due to their offensive limitations. And given Rob Williams' improvement, room for further improvement and superior contract he looks the better guy to bet on than Smart.

The reason I am unconvinced of keeping both players is that I have a tough time seeing how we can build a good enough offense with both players on this team. They will need a 3rd great offensive player in order to cover their limitations and I am not sure we have the trade assets to land such a player. More likely we'll need two very good supporting offensive players next to Jaylen & Tatum and one of Smart / Rob will need to make way to make room for that 2nd guy.

(2) Smart has seen some drop-off on both ends of the floor. I believe most of his drop-off offensively is due to the position he is playing and the excessive offensive demands of that position as well as the decrease in easiest offensive opportunities created when he had a superior offensive guard next to him. That can be remedied.

The drop-off defensively is more worrying. He is still very good but you can already see him relying more on smarts than physical talent. I was worried 1-2 years ago of Smart having an early decline due to his body type (ala Ron Artest who I compare Smart to physically, a smaller version but similar bulky body type) and I believe we are already seeing the early stages of that.

I am unsure whether Smart is still capable of being an above average starter or if he has fallen off to being a middle of the pack starter which I feel is more likely to be the case. I only consider above average starters & stars as core pieces / key pieces. So I have dropped Smart from this.

I am open to keeping Smart if the other pieces around him are correct and allow him to function in a lesser role offensively but I do think we'll have to trade Rob Williams to make that happen and get a more skilled big man in to replace Rob. I doubt that happens. Smart is much more likely to be the one to leave.

How about the Kemba trade? Isn't that kind of radical

But I think I saw you commented somewhere you didn't like that Stevens went with the familiar and got Al Horford so I can probably guess your answer somewhat

Online Who

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I made two posts in a row there. One about Smart and one about Stevens. This response was linked to the Smart one but seems more about my Stevens post

How about the Kemba trade? Isn't that kind of radical

But I think I saw you commented somewhere you didn't like that Stevens went with the familiar and got Al Horford so I can probably guess your answer somewhat

The Kemba trade as a radical move by Stevens? Potentially.

So there was two ways for this trade to go.

(1) Ultra-ambitious, we are cutting salary and getting into the max free agent game next summer. We believe in our two young stars and their ability to attract a 3rd star to join us and make us a legit contender.

And then what we actually did,

(2) Create cap flexibility but then sign Smart, J.Richardson and R.Williams to expensive extensions ($40mil a year over 4 years, something like that for the trio) that wasted away most of that cap flexibility that we had just created.

It hasn't eliminated the possibility completely as Stevens could find trades to re-acquire the cap space he has given away + he still has Horford as a trade asset to get a star that way ... but it did take us off course from that ultra-ambitious model.

And I was okay with giving up a 1st round pick for the ultra-ambitious plan. I am not okay if we do not follow through with the ultra-ambitious plan. In that case, the 1st was the most valuable long term piece and we should have kept it. That was the smarter course of action for slow gradual team building.

I do like Horford more than Kemba but it was not worth giving up a first for. You do not sacrifice long term assets for band aids (short term fixes). Long term assets are for long term solutions. Not short term ones.
 
------------------

So we'll see what Stevens does next. What he does at this trade deadline and this summer and we'll have a better idea of how aggressive & ambitious he is as head man in charge.

I am doubtful and his signings of those contracts only increased those doubts but doubts is all they are at this point. We'll have a much firmer idea in 6 months time of what Stevens' intentions are for this team moving forward.

Offline nickagneta

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So Brad has to trade the veterans to force Udoka to play the youngsters? That’s ridiculous.

Making long term personnel decisions based on Udoka’s rookie coaching performance is asinine. A non-Schroder/Fernando trade is a short sighted move that BS will pass on.

He has the core playing heavy minutes while in a switch-everything defense and an uptempo offense, and you wonder why the team is one of the worst 4th Quarter teams! Either use the depth or intermittently change to a zone and/or ISO offense. Stamina isn’t only a thing on video games and it’s affecting the team’s performance. Get a clue!
Ummmm.....uptempo offense?

Are you watching the same team the rest of us are watching?
Is attempting to execute an uptempo offense and failing an uptempo offense or does the attempt not count because it failed?

Getting this team to play uptempo has been part of Udoka’s mission statement. I notice the attempt to push the pace, do you?

Once opposing teams impede the the ball handlers progress, the fast break is over with this team unless it’s Jaylen. The team often tries to get out in transition only to have settle into their half court offense. The attempt to push the pace is still there.

By the 4th quarter our playmakers are running on fumes with Tatum often crossing mid court with only 16-17 left on the shot clock.

The point of the post stands. Roster changes won’t address Udoka’s terrible coaching like his tendency to spam blitz packages all game without utilizing the depth leading to this team serving up 4th quarter specials as if they had Fernando Rodney in the closing lineup!
There has not been any attempt to push the pace, even after turnovers. Scal has made mention of this often. On the last nationally televised ESPN game, I think it was Doris Burke pointing it out several times.

It's been a constant throughout this year that the team gets a turnover or a rebound then walk the ball up the court. At times, not often, the team jogs up the court but doesn't try to score in transition but waits for their team mates to get on the offensive side of the court to run their half court set. By then, in both cases, the opposition has set their defense making it more difficult to score.

And the stats point this out. The Celtics are 25th in pace and 24th in fast break points.

The Celtics are in no way playing uptempo basketball or attempting in any way to play uptempo basketball. The eye test is verified by the stats. Using this argument to point out that's why the team is bad in the 4th quarter is a terrible observation.

Now I do think the rotation players are playing too much at times? Yup! But some minutes are okay. The Jays playing 35-36 MPG is good. Timelord at 30 MPG is good. Richardson at 25 MPG is good. Grant at 22 MPG is fine. But elsewhere on the roster there needs to be some change to open up minutes for others. Horford, Smart and Schröder need their minutes reduced. This should open more time for the three youngsters.

Payton isn't a PG but would be fine playing alongside combo guards like Richardson and Smart. The stats of him playing above and below 20 MPG are pretty telling with him being a difference maker at over 20 minutes and blah below that mark. So you should try to find 20 MPG for him. Langford should be seeing about that much. So the only way to get those two those minutes is reducing Smart's minutes by 3-4 minutes and trading Schröder for cap relief/a pick.

Nesmith might need for someone to get hurt or wait until next year to see meaningful minutes. Otherwise, he needs to be used in blowouts as a change the pace/energy level type guy.