Author Topic: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?  (Read 19513 times)

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Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2022, 05:11:33 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Sengun turns the ball over a lot and commits too many turnovers, but his ability to fill up a box score is impressive.

What % likelihood would you say the Cs would have taken Sengun with that pick? 25%? 40%?

I get your point on value, I’m just pointing out capitalizing on such value has been a Cs weakness of late.

Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2022, 05:16:39 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Sengun turns the ball over a lot and commits too many turnovers, but his ability to fill up a box score is impressive.

What % likelihood would you say the Cs would have taken Sengun with that pick? 25%? 40%?

I get your point on value, I’m just pointing out capitalizing on such value has been a Cs weakness of late.

No idea.  He seemed obvious there, but if we didn’t like him, we could have gotten two future #1s.  Those two firsts along with Kemba’s expiring contract would have been excellent trade chips.


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Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2022, 05:52:29 PM »

Offline cons

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I thought at the time option #1 sounded good.

Looks now like that would’ve been the better way to go

Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2022, 06:11:20 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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The way I remember it, Kyrie announced he was signing in Brooklyn, and the C's now needed a PG/3rd Star.

Danny wanted to make a splash and keep the wolves (fans) from the door. So he signed the reliable Kemba Walker. Kemba immediately showed to be ineffective when teamed with the J's and he also had knee problems. The knee problems looked to be serious and chronic, just as they do now in NY.

Thus trading a Kemba Walker with a bad knee looked all but impossible, so we took the least bitter pill we could, hence the Horford deal.

IMO this is the reason the ownership is hesitant to go over the ceiling calling for a tax. They want to see if the J's can actually excel with anyone.

Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2022, 06:28:14 PM »

Online Roy H.

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The way I remember it, Kyrie announced he was signing in Brooklyn, and the C's now needed a PG/3rd Star.

Danny wanted to make a splash and keep the wolves (fans) from the door. So he signed the reliable Kemba Walker. Kemba immediately showed to be ineffective when teamed with the J's and he also had knee problems. The knee problems looked to be serious and chronic, just as they do now in NY.

Thus trading a Kemba Walker with a bad knee looked all but impossible, so we took the least bitter pill we could, hence the Horford deal.

IMO this is the reason the ownership is hesitant to go over the ceiling calling for a tax. They want to see if the J's can actually excel with anyone.

I disagree with the bolded part.  The team actually played quite well his first few months here, before tweaking his knee.

But, when traded, he was chronologically hurt.  Why was moving his bad contract for an equally long big contract a good idea?  Did Brad just badly misjudge how mediocre the team would be?


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Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2022, 06:39:54 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Sengun turns the ball over a lot and commits too many turnovers, but his ability to fill up a box score is impressive.

What % likelihood would you say the Cs would have taken Sengun with that pick? 25%? 40%?

I get your point on value, I’m just pointing out capitalizing on such value has been a Cs weakness of late.

No idea.  He seemed obvious there, but if we didn’t like him, we could have gotten two future #1s.  Those two firsts along with Kemba’s expiring contract would have been excellent trade chips.

Fair enough. If Horford is part of a key move, only then will the deal be worth it.

But candidly, what bothers me more is the careless trade of Walker for Rozier. Having seen his medicals, how could the Cs have made such a poor decision? Like, blind faith he’d somehow get better?
Ridiculous.

Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2022, 06:43:11 PM »

Offline BoulderMike

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With hindsight as 20/20, shouldn't we have just have bought out and stretched Kemba's contract (exactly like what Oklahoma City did)? 

Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2022, 06:45:14 PM »

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I am still horrified at the Smart extension. His defence has been better this season than last, but his shooting is as bad as it's been since 2017. Such a frustrating player.
I think Smart's shooting was always going to see a big drop off this season with him playing PG. He needs someone else to do the majority of the ball-handling & attract the defensive attention to get himself easier shot attempts.

He gets back to playing SG or plays PG next to a point-forward like Doncic or LeBron and I believe Smart's shooting will see a big increase.

So I am not that worried about the decline. It has more to do with his role (PG, too much on-ball) than the type of role he should have on a stronger team (more off ball). It should bounce back to serviceable levels in a more suited role.

Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2022, 06:48:36 PM »

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Don’t you think recent free agent signings has become  less about cap space and more about creating an attractive destiny? E.g. Heat and even the Bulls. Brad really thought Smart extension and Richardson extension created value otherwise why do it? Also Ime was pushing hard to establish defensive identity and probably endorsed both extensions.

Absolutely and Boston had already created one of the most attractive destinations in the league because they had two of the best young stars in the NBA in Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. The offer was come join these two All-Stars (Tatum bordering on Top 10 player), make a Big Three and win a Championship.

It was about as strong an offer as you can make to a free agent. Young stars entering their prime. Not old guys who are about to fall off the cliff halfway through your newly signed contract. A team on the verge of title contention.

Stars attract other stars.

We had 2 of them. We just had to get in the game (free agency). Incredibly difficult for anyone to beat our offer. Max deal + two co-stars to make a Big Three + Championship aspirations. That is a brilliant brilliant offer.

Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2022, 06:52:51 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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The way I remember it, Kyrie announced he was signing in Brooklyn, and the C's now needed a PG/3rd Star.

Danny wanted to make a splash and keep the wolves (fans) from the door. So he signed the reliable Kemba Walker. Kemba immediately showed to be ineffective when teamed with the J's and he also had knee problems. The knee problems looked to be serious and chronic, just as they do now in NY.

Thus trading a Kemba Walker with a bad knee looked all but impossible, so we took the least bitter pill we could, hence the Horford deal.

IMO this is the reason the ownership is hesitant to go over the ceiling calling for a tax. They want to see if the J's can actually excel with anyone.

I disagree with the bolded part.  The team actually played quite well his first few months here, before tweaking his knee.

But, when traded, he was chronologically hurt.  Why was moving his bad contract for an equally long big contract a good idea?  Did Brad just badly misjudge how mediocre the team would be?


If I remember correctly Kemba looked shot at the time we traded him. He was ineffective defensively, and couldn't play back to back games.
No team wants a player making huge money with cronicly bad knees.

What is seldom asked is did Danny do a physical on him at all? Or did he take the word of his former teams doctor? If it were me and he didn't do a complete physical on him, I'd fire him.

That Kimber contract killed the Celtics in the short term.

Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2022, 06:53:45 PM »

Online Roy H.

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With hindsight as 20/20, shouldn't we have just have bought out and stretched Kemba's contract (exactly like what Oklahoma City did)?

I don’t think so.  His contract next year would have been tradable as a large expiring.


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Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2022, 07:58:58 PM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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I read somewhere it also allows us to be more flexible, in terms of trading future firsts because of the Stepien Rule.

Instead of having to deal with the Kemba issue now, in 2022, we have already dealt with it by losing our 2021 first. We can now trade our 2022, 2024...etc. firsts (or 2023, 2025...etc.).

Whereas if we had kept Kemba and only now decided to move him for our 2022 first, that affects which other firsts we can package in a big move.

Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2022, 08:23:09 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I read somewhere it also allows us to be more flexible, in terms of trading future firsts because of the Stepien Rule.

Instead of having to deal with the Kemba issue now, in 2022, we have already dealt with it by losing our 2021 first. We can now trade our 2022, 2024...etc. firsts (or 2023, 2025...etc.).

Whereas if we had kept Kemba and only now decided to move him for our 2022 first, that affects which other firsts we can package in a big move.

I see that as a strange argument.  We shouldn’t have dealt any pick to dump Kemba, since Horford’s contract is just as long.


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Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2022, 09:24:37 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Lemme ask a related but larger question:

Since the summer of 2017, why’d the Cs make virtually every decision they’ve made? I can think of two decisions that deserve a truly big Thumbs Up: drafting Robert Williams, and extending Robert Williams.

Literally, nearly all the rest — those that don’t involve simple cap management moves anyway — vary from “questionable” to “major **** up”. I suppose drafting Grant Williams ranks a little better than that.

I understand this is not a popular sentiment, but the Cs have been a poorly run NBA franchise for a number of years now.


Re: Why did we make the Kemba / Horford deal?
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2022, 09:35:46 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Quote
t was obviously all about money.

It’s just wild, if it’s solely about they money.  Big market, hugely profitable teams shouldn’t give up first rounders simply for savings.  Every move should be about improving the team.

Billionaires should run their teams for Championships, not profit.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.