NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)

[Moranis]

Kareem
Giannis
Tiny
Arizin
Sir Charles
Barry
Bird
Wilt
Cousy
Cowens
Clyde
Duncan
KD
Dr. J
Ewing
Frazier
KG
Iceman
Greer
Harden
Hondo
Hayes
AI
Magic
S. Jones
MJ
Lucas
Mailman
Moses
McHale
Mikan
Nash
Dirk
Hakeem
Chief
CP3
Pettit
Pippen
Reed
Big O
Admiral
Bill
Sharman
Stockton
Isiah
Thurmond
Unseld
Walton
West
Worthy

[Jvalin]

Not sure why they released those names, but I like the release of Giannis, Harden, and KD on the night they opened the season playing each other, though no Curry or Lebron (who are in the late game and both will make it along with I believe Melo and maybe Howard).

Wouldn't include either one of them. I'd also keep all the original 50 intact. Recency bias may lead to unfair results in favour of the modern players. Off the top of my head, here would be my top 25 of the last 25 years:

1. Steph
2. CP3
3. Kidd
4. Nash
5. Gary Payton
6. Kobe
7. Harden
8. D-Wade
9. Klay
10. Ray Allen
11. Manu
12. AI
13. LeBron
14. Kawhi
15. T-Mac
16. Pierce
17. KD
18. Duncan
19. Giannis
20. Dirk
21. KG
22. Anthony Davis 
23. Pau Gasol
24. Jokic
25. Embiid

A few random thoughts:
- Basketball-wise, I'm very low on AI. I believe he was a selfish, inefficient scorer who killed team chemistry. Thing is, he was a cultural icon for the black community. He made black people feel proud of the fact that they are black. Can't put a value to that.
- I kinda expect Yao to make the list for marketing purposes. He made basketball popular in China. Again, can't put a value to that. Basketball-wise, he definitely belongs in the conversation, but I opted for Pau over Yao/Chris Bosh/Howard due to his longevity.
- Talent-wise, Luka is a no-brainer. Wouldn't be against including him in the list despite his young age.
- Embiid may be a reach given his injury history. I mean, he has played only 260 regular season games throughout his career (=a bit more than 3 full seasons). Talent-wise, he's a no-brainer.
- I'm a big fan of Manu's game. Don't think he'll make the cut, but I just couldn't leave him off my list.
- I expect Westbrook to make the list. Personally speaking, I hate his game.
- Hardest one to cut was Paul George.

[Somebody]

Not sure why they released those names, but I like the release of Giannis, Harden, and KD on the night they opened the season playing each other, though no Curry or Lebron (who are in the late game and both will make it along with I believe Melo and maybe Howard).

Wouldn't include either one of them. I'd also keep all the original 50 intact. Recency bias may lead to unfair results in favour of the modern players. Off the top of my head, here would be my top 25 of the last 25 years:

1. Steph
2. CP3
3. Kidd
4. Nash
5. Gary Payton
6. Kobe
7. Harden
8. D-Wade
9. Klay
10. Ray Allen
11. Manu
12. AI
13. LeBron
14. Kawhi
15. T-Mac
16. Pierce
17. KD
18. Duncan
19. Giannis
20. Dirk
21. KG
22. Anthony Davis 
23. Pau Gasol
24. Jokic
25. Embiid

A few random thoughts:
- Basketball-wise, I'm very low on AI. I believe he was a selfish, inefficient scorer who killed team chemistry. Thing is, he was a cultural icon for the black community. He made black people feel proud of the fact that they are black. Can't put a value to that.
- I kinda expect Yao to make the list for marketing purposes. He made basketball popular in China. Again, can't put a value to that. Basketball-wise, he definitely belongs in the conversation, but I opted for Pau over Yao/Chris Bosh/Howard due to his longevity.
- Talent-wise, Luka is a no-brainer. Wouldn't be against including him in the list despite his young age.
- Embiid may be a reach given his injury history. I mean, he has played only 260 regular season games throughout his career (=a bit more than 3 full seasons). Talent-wise, he's a no-brainer.
- I'm a big fan of Manu's game. Don't think he'll make the cut, but I just couldn't leave him off my list.
- I expect Westbrook to make the list. Personally speaking, I hate his game.
- Hardest one to cut was Paul George.

Yao made the NBA popular in China, the sport itself was pretty big in China by the early 2000s due to how easy it was for the government to build courts in the country (it's pretty much just pouring the cement, drawing some lines and setting up a basket) and have them last for decades - courts were everywhere so people bought the cheapest basketballs they could find and played pickup games nonstop.

Here's a clip of the Bayi Rockets playing against the '78 NBA champions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9b1EXe2hs

[Jvalin]

Not sure why they released those names, but I like the release of Giannis, Harden, and KD on the night they opened the season playing each other, though no Curry or Lebron (who are in the late game and both will make it along with I believe Melo and maybe Howard).

Wouldn't include either one of them. I'd also keep all the original 50 intact. Recency bias may lead to unfair results in favour of the modern players. Off the top of my head, here would be my top 25 of the last 25 years:

1. Steph
2. CP3
3. Kidd
4. Nash
5. Gary Payton
6. Kobe
7. Harden
8. D-Wade
9. Klay
10. Ray Allen
11. Manu
12. AI
13. LeBron
14. Kawhi
15. T-Mac
16. Pierce
17. KD
18. Duncan
19. Giannis
20. Dirk
21. KG
22. Anthony Davis 
23. Pau Gasol
24. Jokic
25. Embiid

A few random thoughts:
- Basketball-wise, I'm very low on AI. I believe he was a selfish, inefficient scorer who killed team chemistry. Thing is, he was a cultural icon for the black community. He made black people feel proud of the fact that they are black. Can't put a value to that.
- I kinda expect Yao to make the list for marketing purposes. He made basketball popular in China. Again, can't put a value to that. Basketball-wise, he definitely belongs in the conversation, but I opted for Pau over Yao/Chris Bosh/Howard due to his longevity.
- Talent-wise, Luka is a no-brainer. Wouldn't be against including him in the list despite his young age.
- Embiid may be a reach given his injury history. I mean, he has played only 260 regular season games throughout his career (=a bit more than 3 full seasons). Talent-wise, he's a no-brainer.
- I'm a big fan of Manu's game. Don't think he'll make the cut, but I just couldn't leave him off my list.
- I expect Westbrook to make the list. Personally speaking, I hate his game.
- Hardest one to cut was Paul George.

Yao made the NBA popular in China, the sport itself was pretty big in China by the early 2000s due to how easy it was for the government to build courts in the country (it's pretty much just pouring the cement, drawing some lines and setting up a basket) and have them last for decades - courts were everywhere so people bought the cheapest basketballs they could find and played pickup games nonstop.

Here's a clip of the Bayi Rockets playing against the '78 NBA champions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9b1EXe2hs

I stand corrected. Is it fair to say that Yao helped increase basketball's popularity even further?

Out of curiosity, which is the most popular sport in China? Based on this map, it's table tennis. Is this correct?

[Somebody]

Not sure why they released those names, but I like the release of Giannis, Harden, and KD on the night they opened the season playing each other, though no Curry or Lebron (who are in the late game and both will make it along with I believe Melo and maybe Howard).

Wouldn't include either one of them. I'd also keep all the original 50 intact. Recency bias may lead to unfair results in favour of the modern players. Off the top of my head, here would be my top 25 of the last 25 years:

1. Steph
2. CP3
3. Kidd
4. Nash
5. Gary Payton
6. Kobe
7. Harden
8. D-Wade
9. Klay
10. Ray Allen
11. Manu
12. AI
13. LeBron
14. Kawhi
15. T-Mac
16. Pierce
17. KD
18. Duncan
19. Giannis
20. Dirk
21. KG
22. Anthony Davis 
23. Pau Gasol
24. Jokic
25. Embiid

A few random thoughts:
- Basketball-wise, I'm very low on AI. I believe he was a selfish, inefficient scorer who killed team chemistry. Thing is, he was a cultural icon for the black community. He made black people feel proud of the fact that they are black. Can't put a value to that.
- I kinda expect Yao to make the list for marketing purposes. He made basketball popular in China. Again, can't put a value to that. Basketball-wise, he definitely belongs in the conversation, but I opted for Pau over Yao/Chris Bosh/Howard due to his longevity.
- Talent-wise, Luka is a no-brainer. Wouldn't be against including him in the list despite his young age.
- Embiid may be a reach given his injury history. I mean, he has played only 260 regular season games throughout his career (=a bit more than 3 full seasons). Talent-wise, he's a no-brainer.
- I'm a big fan of Manu's game. Don't think he'll make the cut, but I just couldn't leave him off my list.
- I expect Westbrook to make the list. Personally speaking, I hate his game.
- Hardest one to cut was Paul George.

Yao made the NBA popular in China, the sport itself was pretty big in China by the early 2000s due to how easy it was for the government to build courts in the country (it's pretty much just pouring the cement, drawing some lines and setting up a basket) and have them last for decades - courts were everywhere so people bought the cheapest basketballs they could find and played pickup games nonstop.

Here's a clip of the Bayi Rockets playing against the '78 NBA champions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9b1EXe2hs

I stand corrected. Is it fair to say that Yao helped increase basketball's popularity even further?

Out of curiosity, which is the most popular sport in China? Based on this map, it's table tennis. Is this correct?

Yes to both

Btw watch the video I sent above, there's some really interesting stuff (one of Bayi's wings screams NBA calibre to me, he was cooking Bob Dandridge throughout the clip).

[Jvalin]

Not sure why they released those names, but I like the release of Giannis, Harden, and KD on the night they opened the season playing each other, though no Curry or Lebron (who are in the late game and both will make it along with I believe Melo and maybe Howard).

Wouldn't include either one of them. I'd also keep all the original 50 intact. Recency bias may lead to unfair results in favour of the modern players. Off the top of my head, here would be my top 25 of the last 25 years:

1. Steph
2. CP3
3. Kidd
4. Nash
5. Gary Payton
6. Kobe
7. Harden
8. D-Wade
9. Klay
10. Ray Allen
11. Manu
12. AI
13. LeBron
14. Kawhi
15. T-Mac
16. Pierce
17. KD
18. Duncan
19. Giannis
20. Dirk
21. KG
22. Anthony Davis 
23. Pau Gasol
24. Jokic
25. Embiid

A few random thoughts:
- Basketball-wise, I'm very low on AI. I believe he was a selfish, inefficient scorer who killed team chemistry. Thing is, he was a cultural icon for the black community. He made black people feel proud of the fact that they are black. Can't put a value to that.
- I kinda expect Yao to make the list for marketing purposes. He made basketball popular in China. Again, can't put a value to that. Basketball-wise, he definitely belongs in the conversation, but I opted for Pau over Yao/Chris Bosh/Howard due to his longevity.
- Talent-wise, Luka is a no-brainer. Wouldn't be against including him in the list despite his young age.
- Embiid may be a reach given his injury history. I mean, he has played only 260 regular season games throughout his career (=a bit more than 3 full seasons). Talent-wise, he's a no-brainer.
- I'm a big fan of Manu's game. Don't think he'll make the cut, but I just couldn't leave him off my list.
- I expect Westbrook to make the list. Personally speaking, I hate his game.
- Hardest one to cut was Paul George.

Yao made the NBA popular in China, the sport itself was pretty big in China by the early 2000s due to how easy it was for the government to build courts in the country (it's pretty much just pouring the cement, drawing some lines and setting up a basket) and have them last for decades - courts were everywhere so people bought the cheapest basketballs they could find and played pickup games nonstop.

Here's a clip of the Bayi Rockets playing against the '78 NBA champions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9b1EXe2hs

I stand corrected. Is it fair to say that Yao helped increase basketball's popularity even further?

Out of curiosity, which is the most popular sport in China? Based on this map, it's table tennis. Is this correct?

Yes to both

Btw watch the video I sent above, there's some really interesting stuff (one of Bayi's wings screams NBA calibre to me, he was cooking Bob Dandridge throughout the clip).

Wow, table tennis is pretty much nonexistent in my country. Cultural diversity around the world never cease to amaze me! Thanks for the info! Always love to learn about different cultures.

I watched quite a bit and then read the video description below. Interesting stuff! The one thing that caught my eye is how immobile the chinese big man was. I guess it was no problem at the time, but he would have been killed in switches in today's game. His lack of explosiveness was even more noticeable cause he was playing against 2 mobile bigs in Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes. I reckon both of them would have been elite small ball Centers in the modern NBA. Btw, Hayes was included in yesterday's 25-man list. I expect Unseld to make the final cut as well. According to Dr J, “Wes Unseld was the only guy Wilt was scared of in the league”. He was a menace on the defensive end of the floor!

[Moranis]

To be clear you don't think the 10th all time leading scorer in league history and a 3 time DPOY that led a team to the finals aren't going to make it, but that Davis, Embiid, and Jokic will.  Seems highly unlikely.

[Jvalin]

To be clear you don't think the 10th all time leading scorer in league history and a 3 time DPOY that led a team to the finals aren't going to make it, but that Davis, Embiid, and Jokic will.  Seems highly unlikely.

All I'm saying is I wouldn't include them in my list. For instance, I don't expect Manu to make the cut, but I'd rather have him on my team over Melo/Howard. It's just my opinion. I also expect the NBA to make a new list from scratch. If so, they'll probably include more than 25 players from the last 25 years. With this in mind, it's even more likely that at least one of Melo/Howard will make the list (if not both of them).

[Moranis]

To be clear you don't think the 10th all time leading scorer in league history and a 3 time DPOY that led a team to the finals aren't going to make it, but that Davis, Embiid, and Jokic will.  Seems highly unlikely.

All I'm saying is I wouldn't include them in my list. For instance, I don't expect Manu to make the cut, but I'd rather have him on my team over Melo/Howard. It's just my opinion. I also expect the NBA to make a new list from scratch. If so, they'll probably include more than 25 players from the last 25 years. With this in mind, it's even more likely that at least one of Melo/Howard will make the list (if not both of them).

I think Westbrook will also make it and didn't mention him. 

I don't think Klay Thompson makes it from your list either.  So I'd have Klay, Manu, and Embiid out for sure in favor of Melo, Howard, and Russ. 

[Somebody]

Not sure why they released those names, but I like the release of Giannis, Harden, and KD on the night they opened the season playing each other, though no Curry or Lebron (who are in the late game and both will make it along with I believe Melo and maybe Howard).

Wouldn't include either one of them. I'd also keep all the original 50 intact. Recency bias may lead to unfair results in favour of the modern players. Off the top of my head, here would be my top 25 of the last 25 years:

1. Steph
2. CP3
3. Kidd
4. Nash
5. Gary Payton
6. Kobe
7. Harden
8. D-Wade
9. Klay
10. Ray Allen
11. Manu
12. AI
13. LeBron
14. Kawhi
15. T-Mac
16. Pierce
17. KD
18. Duncan
19. Giannis
20. Dirk
21. KG
22. Anthony Davis 
23. Pau Gasol
24. Jokic
25. Embiid

A few random thoughts:
- Basketball-wise, I'm very low on AI. I believe he was a selfish, inefficient scorer who killed team chemistry. Thing is, he was a cultural icon for the black community. He made black people feel proud of the fact that they are black. Can't put a value to that.
- I kinda expect Yao to make the list for marketing purposes. He made basketball popular in China. Again, can't put a value to that. Basketball-wise, he definitely belongs in the conversation, but I opted for Pau over Yao/Chris Bosh/Howard due to his longevity.
- Talent-wise, Luka is a no-brainer. Wouldn't be against including him in the list despite his young age.
- Embiid may be a reach given his injury history. I mean, he has played only 260 regular season games throughout his career (=a bit more than 3 full seasons). Talent-wise, he's a no-brainer.
- I'm a big fan of Manu's game. Don't think he'll make the cut, but I just couldn't leave him off my list.
- I expect Westbrook to make the list. Personally speaking, I hate his game.
- Hardest one to cut was Paul George.

Yao made the NBA popular in China, the sport itself was pretty big in China by the early 2000s due to how easy it was for the government to build courts in the country (it's pretty much just pouring the cement, drawing some lines and setting up a basket) and have them last for decades - courts were everywhere so people bought the cheapest basketballs they could find and played pickup games nonstop.

Here's a clip of the Bayi Rockets playing against the '78 NBA champions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV9b1EXe2hs

I stand corrected. Is it fair to say that Yao helped increase basketball's popularity even further?

Out of curiosity, which is the most popular sport in China? Based on this map, it's table tennis. Is this correct?

Yes to both

Btw watch the video I sent above, there's some really interesting stuff (one of Bayi's wings screams NBA calibre to me, he was cooking Bob Dandridge throughout the clip).

Wow, table tennis is pretty much nonexistent in my country. Cultural diversity around the world never cease to amaze me! Thanks for the info! Always love to learn about different cultures.

I watched quite a bit and then read the video description below. Interesting stuff! The one thing that caught my eye is how immobile the chinese big man was. I guess it was no problem at the time, but he would have been killed in switches in today's game. His lack of explosiveness was even more noticeable cause he was playing against 2 mobile bigs in Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes. I reckon both of them would have been elite small ball Centers in the modern NBA. Btw, Hayes was included in yesterday's 25-man list. I expect Unseld to make the final cut as well. According to Dr J, “Wes Unseld was the only guy Wilt was scared of in the league”. He was a menace on the defensive end of the floor!

Yeah Iron Pole was your 'regular' 7'6 guy - you tend to have a lot of health problems at that height, much less be mobile enough to play a sport like basketball. And I do think that both of the Bullets bigs would be pretty good in the modern NBA even though I have some reservations about Hayes' decision-making and attitude.

And absolutely! Rugby/American hand egg is virtually nonexistent where I live so seeing the sport being popular in other countries is fascinating.

[Moranis]

2nd 25 in bold

Kareem
Giannis
Tiny
Arizin
Sir Charles
Barry
Bird
Wilt
Cousy
Cowens
Clyde
Duncan
KD
Dr. J
Ewing
Frazier
KG
Iceman
Greer
Harden
Hondo
Hayes
AI
Magic
S. Jones
MJ
Lucas
Mailman
Moses
McHale
Mikan
Nash
Dirk
Hakeem
Chief
CP3
Pettit
Pippen
Reed
Big O
Admiral
Bill
Sharman
Stockton
Isiah
Thurmond
Unseld
Walton
West
Worthy

[Moranis]

So the active players so far on the list

Giannis, Durant, Harden, Paul

In addition to those 4, they've added 5 other guys: Duncan, Garnett, Iverson, Nash, Dirk

And since they've added 9 to the 50 here are the 9 that were on the top 50 team that haven't yet been announced: Elgin Baylor, Dave Bing, Billy Cunningham, Dave DeBusschere, Pete Maravich, Earl Monroe, Shaquille O'Neal, Dolph Schayes, Lenny Wilkens. 

I will be interested to see if they keep all 9 of those guys and only add 16 more, or if they take some of the original 50 off the list (though Arizin seemed liked a target for that and he is still on it).

If they stick to 16 new people, there are like 10 that fairly obvious i.e. Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Kidd, Payton, Curry, Anthony, etc. but then it gets interesting as there are some players they didn't put on last time i.e. Dominique, Rodman, Reggie that will get some love in addition to a bunch of the modern players that have varying degrees of claims like Big Ben, Dwight, Russ, etc.  I'm really curious to see what they do with the final 25.

[Jvalin]

Klay Thompson (...) Reggie Miller

Gimme Klay over Reggie Miller. What separates him from other shooting specialists is his defense. He rarely puts the ball on the floor in order to create his own shot, hence he ain't good enough to be the first option on offense. That said, he's the perfect second option for any team. Him and Steph revolutionized the game.

Dwight Howard

Howard used to think he should be the focal point on offense. Imo, he's a rim runner in the modern game. Nothing wrong with that, but rim runners are usually role players. He cannot put the ball on the floor to save his life. He's a terrible passer. He ain't a scoring threat outside the paint. Obviously, he was an elite rim protector and rebounder in his prime. All in all, I just don't see a top 75 player in him. I certainly don't think he was better than Embiid. Not even close. Had he entered the league during the pace-and-space era, I bet he would have been considered a defensive specialist. Let's say a poor man's Rudy Gobert. He's a very limited offensive player.

Carmelo Anthony

Always viewed Melo as an inefficient choker. Seems like he only cares about his own shots. Hopeless defender. Doesn't make his teammates better. Sure, he has scored loads of points throughout his career. Good for him. I still don't rate him as a player. Basketball is a team game, not a one-man show. For the record, Melo never led his team past the second round in the playoffs. He was usually putting up great numbers on below average efficiency in the playoffs.

Russell Westbrook

I expect him to make the list too, but I hate his game. Fwiw, he was -23 last night against the Warriors. No other starter for the Lakers was below -2. I think the Lakers are gonna regret their decision to trade for him.

[Moranis]

I wouldn't actually put Reggie on.  a couple of months ago I said it would look like this

https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=105257.msg2948493#msg2948493

Obvious clear cut additions

14 - Lebron, TD, Kobe, Dirk, Garnett, Durant, Wade, Iverson, Giannis, Curry, Leonard, Kidd, Payton, Anthony

Pretty obvious additions

8 - Paul, Allen, Pierce, Harden, Westbrook, Nash, Howard, Pau


Then I either had 3 or 6 depending on what you did with the original 50.  If you kept the original 50 in tact, I would have added to those 22: Vince Carter, Nique, and Mourning.  If you weren't beholden to the 50 I would have removed Wilkens, Arizin, and Maravich and added in their place M. Gasol, Bosh, and Rodman. 

[Moranis]

As for Dwight.  He seems pretty obvious to me.  He was the DPOY 3 times.  He led the league in rpg 5 times and bpg 2 times.  In a 5 season span, he had 4 seasons of at least 20.6 ppg and 13.8 rpg and the other season in that stretch he led the league in rpg and bpg while contributing 18.3 ppg on a 59 win team that made the ECF.  His 12.07 rpg is 19th all time (and he is 11th in total rebounds) and the only players on the list ahead of him with the meat of their careers after the 60's, are Drummond, Cowens, Rodman, Hayes, and Moses.  He never won the MVP but had 4 seasons finishing in the top 5 and finished 2nd in 2011.   He was the best player on collectively the best 2, 3, and 4 year stretches in Orlando Magic history, eclipsing the Shaq led Magic teams.  He is 13th all time in blocks (obviously since they started tracking those).  He has cracked the top 60 in total points as well and is currently 59th in that (and has a reasonable shot at top 50 by the end of the year). 

I'd be pretty surprised if Dwight didn't make the top 75.  His case is pretty hard to argue against.