Kyrie done for rest of Season and Playoffs; needs second surgery

[mctyson]

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Will be right back, just need to check on current status of the sky!

Let me just throw this scenario out for you:

Boston, with Kyrie out for the season due to a pre-existing injury, gets bounced in the 1st round of the playoffs.

Cleveland, with players acquired from the Kyrie trade (albeit following a second trade), makes the NBA Finals.

Cleveland then lands a top-5 pick via the BK 18 pick acquired in the Kyrie trade, and nets a young player that eventually becomes a multiple time All Star.

Is the above mentioned scenario really "sky is falling" likelihood?  I think that has a reasonable chance of occurring.  If that happens, is Boston not a clear loser in the Kyrie trade?

Right now the odds of the Nets' pick landing top 3 is only 15%. 

Given the statistics about the history of top 7 picks turning into multiple time All-Stars, it doesn't actually seem like there's a very significant chance of the scenario you outline occurring.


I am 100% OK with the notion that the Celts traded, effectively, BRK 18 and Jae Crowder for Kyrie Irving, even though he won't be able to participate in the playoffs for year 1.

The first year with Kyrie went pretty well.  I'm feeling pretty confident about how he'll do next year with Hayward back and Brown / Tatum continuing to mature.  I am confident he'll want to re-sign here as well.

Meanwhile, that BRK may very well turn into a player who is (a) a long term project and (b) not a perennial All-Star.  Isaiah Thomas, sadly, may never be an All-Star again, given how he's looked in trying to come back from the hip injury.

Why are you confident about this?  Leaving Hayward, who broke his ankle in half, out of the question.  Why are you confident that Kyrie will be just fine?

Everyone responding to me is accepting, de facto, that in 2018/2019 the Celtics players who have season-ending injuries this year are just going to revert back to their pre-injury form.  There is zero guarantee that will happen.

[KGs Knee]

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Jury is out on that assessment. Kyrie played great for 60 games. If he never matches that level of performance in future you will be right. If he does, it will go down as a solid trade. Of course unless Cavs get lucky with BKN pick.

What I highlighted here is the problem.

Danny knew this could happen, no doubt, and risked the BK 18 pick for him.  Right now that is not looking very good.

This seems very short-sighted and fails to recognize the NBA will continue to exist beyond just this season.  That trade was always more about setting the team up for a brighter future than an immediate success.

OK - Kyrie has one year left on his deal, and may be coming off a major knee operation with no guarantee of being able to perform at a top-level, physically, because of this.

How is that for looking into the future?

Its a rather pessimistic view of things, in my opinion.

The doctors have said his knee is structurally sound.  This is not a major injury, nor is it a major surgery.  It's a relatively routine follow up procedure, that is only being performed at an inopportune time because of an infection.  The odds of this infection becoming something worse are very miniscule.  Why would you believe he won't be able to play at top level going forward?

Kyrie has stated multiple times he enjoys playing for Boston, and coach Stevens.  Boston can offer him the most guaranteed money.  Why would you think he won't stay?

[PhoSita]

Why are you confident about this?  Leaving Hayward, who broke his ankle in half, out of the question.  Why are you confident that Kyrie will be just fine?

There's never a guarantee that any player will be as good or better next year than they were this year.  Injury or no injury.  We don't know.  Sometimes guys go home for the off-season and they're just not the same when they come back.  Or they switch teams.  Or get a new coach.  Or their role changes.  Whatever.  There are no guarantees.

With that said, everything I've read about Kyrie's injury suggests it was (a) something that was expected to become necessary at some point going back to 2015 when they performed the original surgery and (b) not something that is anticipated to cause any long term issues in Kyrie's ability to play.

I will admit that I am assuming that Hayward will be back to something close to 100% next season.  Obviously I expect him to be rusty at first.  But I don't think it's outrageous to believe that there's a strong chance the Celts will have both Kyrie and Hayward at fighting strength for the playoffs this time next year.

[Big333223]

Get healthy. That's what matters. Get everyone healthy and feeling good to go for next season.

Meanwhile, whatever games and playoff series they win this year will be gravy after what I think was a fun season with a lot of new faces and encouraging young performances.

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Will be right back, just need to check on current status of the sky!

Let me just throw this scenario out for you:

Boston, with Kyrie out for the season due to a pre-existing injury, gets bounced in the 1st round of the playoffs.

Cleveland, with players acquired from the Kyrie trade (albeit following a second trade), makes the NBA Finals.

Cleveland then lands a top-5 pick via the BK 18 pick acquired in the Kyrie trade, and nets a young player that eventually becomes a multiple time All Star.

Is the above mentioned scenario really "sky is falling" likelihood?  I think that has a reasonable chance of occurring.  If that happens, is Boston not a clear loser in the Kyrie trade?

I don't think you can judge Ainge on what Cleveland did with a another trade later. I've seen a few posters doing that and it doesn't make sense to me. The fact that Cleveland didn't want Crowder and IT around after less than a season makes Ainge look good, to me.

Also, Kyrie isn't dead, he's having screws removed from his knww. If something goes terribly wrong and he never plays at an all star level again, then Ainge gave up too much to get him but there is no indication right now that that is going to happen. If the Brooklyn pick is top 5, that's going to hurt but that's also the price you pay for an all star pg in his prime. If that's the only asset of value Ainge had to give up to get Kyrie (which could wind up being the case) then the deal is still good.

[Roy H.]

This is not a major injury, nor is it a major surgery.

I worry that we’re not getting the full story. Any surgery that takes 5 months to heal strikes me as fairly major.

[KGs Knee]

This is not a major injury, nor is it a major surgery.

I worry that we’re not getting the full story. Any surgery that takes 5 months to heal strikes me as fairly major.

I'd have to assume the voids in the bone mass where the screws currently exist take time to 'fill in', although I have no idea how long. I don't know if I'd classify that as major, but maybe it's not minor either.  But I have to wonder what could really go wrong with removing the screws though, outside of the obvious potential for infection?

[ozgod]

I will reiterate that Danny Ainge is getting WAY too much of a pass for trading for a guy with a pretty serious, and known, knee problem.

Will be right back, just need to check on current status of the sky!

Let me just throw this scenario out for you:

Boston, with Kyrie out for the season due to a pre-existing injury, gets bounced in the 1st round of the playoffs.

Cleveland, with players acquired from the Kyrie trade (albeit following a second trade), makes the NBA Finals.

Cleveland then lands a top-5 pick via the BK 18 pick acquired in the Kyrie trade, and nets a young player that eventually becomes a multiple time All Star.

Is the above mentioned scenario really "sky is falling" likelihood?  I think that has a reasonable chance of occurring.  If that happens, is Boston not a clear loser in the Kyrie trade?

It's certainly possible...and if that were to happen yes we would be the loser. But if I was a betting man I'd say the chance of this scenario happening is smaller than of Kyrie getting back to full health. There's many conditions in your scenario - Cle makes the NBA finals, Cle lands a top 5 pick, the top 5 pick becomes a multiple All Star...vs Kyrie regaining his previous form. I just think the chance of Kyrie recovering fully is bigger.

[Vermont Green]

Where would we be if we didn't make the trade.  We would have and IT to play about 15 games and we would probably be fighting just to make the playoffs.  Yes we would have the BKN pick.  So it come down I think to Kyrie with his health issues or the BKN pick.  I am still happy with Kyrie.

[j804]

Where would we be if we didn't make the trade.  We would have and IT to play about 15 games and we would probably be fighting just to make the playoffs.  Yes we would have the BKN pick.  So it come down I think to Kyrie with his health issues or the BKN pick.  I am still happy with Kyrie.

Facts I'd take Kyrie all day

[green_bballers13]

This is not a major injury, nor is it a major surgery.

I worry that we’re not getting the full story. Any surgery that takes 5 months to heal strikes me as fairly major.

I think it is fairly major. Big enough that they know Kyrie won't be back this year.

Any surgery that shuts down a player from a playoff run is fairly major. I'm concerned about how long this particular knee issue lingers. It's not complete joint repair, but that doesn't minimize an injury. They'll come up with a comprehensive strategy for repair and if he has to miss time in the fall/winter, so be it. The Celtics are looking for Kyrie to be healthy for a playoff run next year with Hayward. So he has a year. I would think that's enough time to heal.

[tarheelsxxiii]

This is not a major injury, nor is it a major surgery.

I worry that we’re not getting the full story. Any surgery that takes 5 months to heal strikes me as fairly major.

I'd have to assume the voids in the bone mass where the screws currently exist take time to 'fill in', although I have no idea how long. I don't know if I'd classify that as major, but maybe it's not minor either.  But I have to wonder what could really go wrong with removing the screws though, outside of the obvious potential for infection?

From what I've learned, bone begins to grow back in 6-12 weeks.  I'd think a 5 month recovery is just precautionary , since he puts a lot more strain on his knee than the average person.  That there is infection also delays the healing process.  My staph infection reached the bone (unbeknownst to us) and as soon as I started PT, the bone 'collapsed'.

[Phantom255x]

Wow, what a horrible day.

Got screwed over by a brutal organic chemistry exam this morning, then literally 30 minutes after finishing the exam, finding out this news 

But hey, the future is still bright! We weren't winning it all this year anyways, but if we get back a healthy Hayward and Kyrie next year, and keep most of this team (or make the right additions to replace the subtractions), we have a legit chance next season to go all the way.

In the meantime, excited to see how the C's young guns do in the playoffs. I would also like to see Horford be more aggressive than usual and leading the way.

[trickybilly]

This is roziers moment. If everyone truly thinks he's a starter, he has to take it up a notch like playoff rondo

Theis, Smart, Kyrie, and Hayward are my favorite players. Am I to blame?

[tenn_smoothie]

Stevens...please rest al, Morris, Tatum and Rozier for the rest of the regular season season

I am with you. Do not grind Horford, Tatum, Brown and Rozier into the ground at this point. Mentality needs to be all in for 2018-19. The table is set up for us next year. Add a shooter and primo rebounder and go get #18.

[Boris Badenov]

This is a concern but nowhere near crisis level.

If we were about to finish a 63-19 season with a healthy Gordon Hayward and a real shot at winning it all, and they shut him down - that would be bad news.

But given that this seems to be a “do it now or do it later” surgery that he probably could be playing through now if necessary, it makes a ton of sense to do it now.