2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look: Conference Finals winners announced!!

[Moranis]

f people have suggestions on what my starting 5 should be, I'm all ears. Been back & forth on a few ideas.

Would appreciate the feedback.

In my mind, teams should play to their strengths.  While your base half-court line up is good, I think where your team really excels against most teams is in terms of pace.

I’d be very tempted to start

AI / McGrady / Marion / Griffin / Davis

Obviously you don’t start Davis at center against the biggest teams, but you’d get by with him at C against probably 9 or 10 teams.

Leaning that way, 2-5.  PG is the biggest question.  Do I start AI or Miller at PG?  I chose a latter AI thinking he could be a good microwave off bench but also see the pros of starting him.

I always found McGrady better as a SF.  I think I suggested it earlier in the thread, but I might do an AI, McCollum, McGrady, Davis lineup with either Marion or Griffin at PF.  I think you could run teams off the floor.  Then you keep Miller/Battier/West/Yao as sort of your slower pace unit.

I didn't read the whole thread, why'd you choose 04-05 Iverson?  I think his best season for this exercise is 07-08, which was by far his most efficient season and the only season in his career he shared the floor with another dominant scorer (thus proving that he could share the load and up his efficiency).  The other obvious choice would be his MVP season when he proved he could lead a team deep into the playoffs.  The 05 season just seems like a strange season to pick. 

[Roy H.]

I didn't read the whole thread, why'd you choose 04-05 Iverson?  I think his best season for this exercise is 07-08, which was by far his most efficient season and the only season in his career he shared the floor with another dominant scorer (thus proving that he could share the load and up his efficiency).  The other obvious choice would be his MVP season when he proved he could lead a team deep into the playoffs.  The 05 season just seems like a strange season to pick.

Random guess:  Dons focused on the playoffs.  AI was on fire in the post-season (31 ppg / 10 apg / .562 TS%), but his team lost in five games).

[gouki88]

I'm going to make a big post detailing why I picked who I picked and then my rotation / gameplan sometime in the near future, but I just wanted to say that this is probably the hardest draft I've seen in terms of ranking teams. So much parity across the board, it's really tough.

Good job everyone! Most of all Nick

[action781]

I didn't read the whole thread, why'd you choose 04-05 Iverson?  I think his best season for this exercise is 07-08, which was by far his most efficient season and the only season in his career he shared the floor with another dominant scorer (thus proving that he could share the load and up his efficiency).  The other obvious choice would be his MVP season when he proved he could lead a team deep into the playoffs.  The 05 season just seems like a strange season to pick.

Random guess:  Dons focused on the playoffs.  AI was on fire in the post-season (31 ppg / 10 apg / .562 TS%), but his team lost in five games).

My guess is because it was the most assists per game had in his entire career while also leading the league in ppg.  He also was the primary point guard on that team. 

I feel like 2000-01 is the best season to consider when talking about AI.  He was just awesome, scoring 48 points in an NBA finals win, and you can chalk up his volume/inefficiency to not having any help around him.

People are free to choose and evaluate as they want, but here's how I will be evaluating. 
1) I will generally if not always judge a player on their 82-game regular season efficiency rather than a 5 game playoff efficiency in any season they are drafted. 
2) I mentioned this to Somebody earlier, but my evaluation is mostly based on memory and I'll use stats to help fill in the many gaps that will be there.  I don't evaluate a player's efficiency in some season in a vacuum based only on their stats that season.  If a player shoots 80% from the free throw line in a season chosen which is sandwiched between two 65% seasons, I'm not going to consider them an 80% free throw shooter in this game.
If your evaluation is the opposite of mine, I've got no qualms about that, there's no set rules regarding this, but thought I'd share my take.

[action781]

MILWAUKEE BUCKS

Player	Season	Position	Height	Points	Rebounds	Assists	Blocks	Steals	eFG%	TS%	Awards
Giannis	2019-20	Forward	6'11"	29.6	13.7	5.8	1.0	1.0	.583	.608	Presumptive MVP
Alonzo Mourning	1999-00	Center	6'10"	21.7	9.5	1.6	3.7	1.0	.551	.596	DPOY
Karl Malone	1999-00	PF	6'10"	25.5	9.5	3.7	0.9	1.0	.510	.582	Reigning MVP
Manu Ginobili	2007-08	SG / SF	6'7"	19.5	4.8	4.5	0.4	1.5	.540	.609	All-NBA
Derrick Rose	2010-11	PG	6'4"	25.5	4.1	7.7	0.6	1.0	.473	.550	MVP
Mike Conley	2016-17	PG	6'1"	20.5	3.5	6.3	0.3	1.3	.545	.604	---
Jayson Tatum	2019-20	SF / PF	6'9"	23.6	7.1	2.9	0.9	1.4	.523	.562	All-Star; All-Defense
Serge Ibaka	2013-14	PF / C	6'11"	15.1	8.8	1.0	2.7	0.5	.548	.576	All-Defense 1st Team
J.J. Redick	2015-16	SG	6'4"	16.3	1.9	1.4	0.1	0.6	.593	.632	3PT% leader
Andrew Bogut	2009-10	Center	6'10"	15.9	10.2	1.8	2.5	0.6	.520	.610	All-NBA
Caron Butler	2007-08	SF	6'8"	20.3	6.7	4.9	0.3	2.2	.501	.558	All-Star
Brad Miller	2003-04	C / PF	6'11"	14.1	10.3	4.3	1.2	0.9	.518	.579	All-Star
Eric Gordon	2017-18	G / SF	6'5"	18.0	2.5	2.2	0.4	0.6	.540	.578	6MOY
Terrell Brandon	1999-00	PG	6'1"	17.5	3.4	8.9	0.4	1.9	.492	.535	---

The Rotation:

Base Lineup:

Alonzo Mourning / Andrew Bogut / Brad Miller
Karl Malone / Serge Ibaka
Giannis / Jayson Tatum / Caron Butler
Manu Ginobili / J.J. Redick / Eric Gordon
Mike Conley / Derrick Rose / Terrell Brandon

One of the things that Who mentioned in this league is that he thought it would trend more toward a European style, with lineups varying game to game.  That's certainly how I envision my team, with one core principle:  never be reactive.  The Bucks were built to have as few weaknesses as possible, allowing them to dictate matchups against almost any lineup they encounter. 

The "bully ball" lineup is huge and muscular up front, while still maintaining mobility.  Giannis plays his natural position of ball-handling wing -- similar to the Lebron / Durant mode -- while surrounded by Karl Malone and Alonzo Mourning.  It's not a conventional 2020 lineup, but that's only because there are very few guys who have the size and athleticism of these three.  Karl Malone is the best pure power forward of all-time, one year removed from winning league MVP.  Alonzo Mourning had one of the most dominant DPOY campaigns ever.  All three are All-NBA first team defenders.  I don't think a team in our league can match up with these three.  On the outside, we have an ultra-efficient floor general (as well as an All-NBA defender) in Mike Conley and a superstar in Manu Ginobili.  All five players are excellent defenders; all five are extremely efficient, dominant offensive players.

But, the team has a ton of versatility.  It's easy to go "small", with Serge Ibaka and Giannis up front, flanked by Tatum and any combination of guards.  We can go bigger by slotting Derrick Rose in at PG.  We can go with an all shooting lineup with Ibaka / Tatum / Manu / Reddick / Conley.  No matter what lineup we choose, we're going to defend the hell out of the ball:  there's only one weak defender on the team in J.J. Redick, and in 2016 he was closer to league average than poor.  Every one of the remainder of the defenders ranges from good to elite, with seven members of the team having All-NBA Defense credentials.

I've never been somebody who projects minutes for my team.  That's the coach's job.  The way the team was constructed, though, I'm hopeful that we can keep Giannis and/or Rose on the floor at all times.  These two will be the primary offensive engines that allow us to run an attacking style for all 48 minutes.  No matter who is on the floor, they will have another high-level creator and elite finisher beside them, whether that be Conley / Malone, Manu / Tatum, or some other combination.

The Bigs:

We've got four potential centers (Mourning / Bogut / Miller / Ibaka) and four potential power forwards (Malone / Giannis / Tatum / Ibaka).  All of those guys can play together, although obviously some combos work well together. 

The Wings:

There's some overlap here, as Giannis and Tatum can play both big and on the wing.  They're joined by Caron Butler, Manu, Redick and Gordon.  Outside of Redick, these guys are all multi-faceted:  they could be primary offensive engines, but they also could catch-and-shoot.  Redick is more of a finisher than a creator; he'll tire out opponents by always being in motion, going around screens for open shots.

The Ball-Handlers:

We're blessed with several guys who can run an offense.  Mike Conley and Terrell Brandon are "traditional" point guards who are classic floor generals who can bomb from outside.  Derrick Rose is the insane athlete who looks for his own shot but can also distribute.  You'll see Manu and Eric Gordon creating, but more than anybody else, this is going to be Giannis' team.

Overall draft strategy and impressions:

This isn't the team I thought I would end up with.  First, I didn't think Giannis would make it to the eighth pick.  This is a sports draft cliche, of course, but I was surprised.  Giannis is the ideal modern player: a 6'11" guy who has played seasons at PG, SG, SF and PF.  He's the best player in the NBA, the closest thing we've seen to Lebron since LBJ came into the league.  Even more scary:  he's a better defender, rebounder and finisher than Lebron has ever been.  He doesn't have the outside stroke or the passing ability, but Giannis is ever-improving.  When I projected the first round, I had Giannis in a virtual tie for 4th, with Lebron, Duncan and Shaq being the top-3, and Durant essentially tied with Giannis at fourth.

So, how do you build around a top-5 positionless player?  I initially wanted to build an elite defensive team, so I picked the best defender available in Zo.  I liked that he was a two-way player, the best center in the draft outside of Shaq.  Not only did he win back-to-back DPOY awards, but he was a 20 ppg scorer and a team leader. 

From there, the plan was to take a strong two-way wing in the third round.  That's exactly why I picked...  Karl Malone.  I actually PM'd a couple of other GMs as my pick got closer, asking if there was something about 2000 Malone that I was missing.  Reigning MVP, led his team to the best record in the Western Conference, huge numbers.  Nobody could really explain why he was dropping.  I looked his season up on the internet, and people are comparing Malone's 2000 season to Dirk's best.  I knew there would be some flack since there's a perception that Giannis is a natural PF (which I disagree with), but I pulled the trigger, totally disrupting my plan in the process.

After that, the strategy was pretty basic:  grab the best player available that wasn't completely redundant with the guys I already had.  Each round, I'd usually target three or four players that I hoped would be there at my pick.  Shockingly, from rounds four to fourteen, I only had one guy drafted ahead of me that I had targeted as my #1 choice.  I had really hoped that Deron Williams would be available with my fifth round pick, and Goukki snatched him out from under me.  Derrick Rose was a nice consolation prize, though, and ultimately ended up being a better fit for my team, as I was able to get Mike Conley as a starter.  A ball-dominant PG probably wouldn't be a great fit.  The other guy who I wanted that was picked a round ahead of where I projected him was Arvydis Sabonis.  I wanted him as a binkie pick, and with him gone, I took Brad Miller, a guy who was actually higher on my list.  What's that tell me?  Probably that I overrate certain players that nobody else wanted as much as I did, haha. 

The other thing I always look at in these drafts is chemistry.  It's never possible to know how guys would mix, but I targeted unselfish players.  I love Manu and Mike Conley in the back court; both have subjugated their own statistics for the good of the team.  Off the bench, there are a lot of guys who have thrived without being starters.  Derrick Rose has been a revelation as a 6th Man on Detroit this season, perhaps the front runner for 6MOY this season.  J.J. Redick has come off the bench more than 400 times in his career; Eric Gordon has transitioned seemlessly to the bench, winning his own 6MOY award.  And not only are these guys unselfish, but they're good citizens.  Mike Conley won the Teammate Of The Year Award and the NBA Sportsmanship Award while with Memphis, Alonzo Mourning is the recipient of the NBA Citizenship Award, and Terrell Brandon won the NBA Sportsmanship Award.  Karl Malone, Alonzo Mourning, Caron Butler, Serge Ibaka and Mike Conley have all won NBA awards related to community involvement (NBA Cares).  Does this matter?  I think it probably does. 

Why I love this team, and why you should too

We all love our teams, right?  Everyone who participated deserves a huge compliment, because all of these teams make sense, rather than just serving as collections of talent thrown together.  It's clear that people put a lot of thought into their teams.

I like mine for two reasons: 

First, everybody on the roster is a two-way player who was elite / borderline elite on defense.  Mourning (2x DPOY), Malone, Giannis (presumptive DPOY runnerup), Conley, Ibaka, and Tatum (presumptive) have all made All-Defense teams, and everybody else outside of Reddick is well above-average. 

Second, the Bucks are extraordinarily efficient.  Even without playing alongside all-time greats, my players have shown the ability to shoot and get to the line at an elite level.  The lowest player in my rotation in terms of efficiency is Derrick Rose, at .550; that was well above-average in his NBA season.  The least efficient starter is Karl Malone, at a ridiculous .582 TS%.  To maintain efficiency that high at high volume is remarkable, and every player on our team can do it.

Great write-up Roy.  A few quiffs and qualms but I think that's bound to happen with such a lengthy and detailed description (and someone as nitpicky as I always tend to be).  Teams generally attempt to go the route of strong offense, strong defense, or balanced and I love the balanced approach you took here.  Your team is hyper efficient while also being very strong defensively.  And the team fits.  I love Rose as the offensive engine when Giannis sits and I think Rose gets underrated for his passing ability back then.  He was a good and smart passer, just such a strong scorer that it was often a better decision to take it himself.  I had him listed as an early second rounder.

[Somebody]

I didn't read the whole thread, why'd you choose 04-05 Iverson?  I think his best season for this exercise is 07-08, which was by far his most efficient season and the only season in his career he shared the floor with another dominant scorer (thus proving that he could share the load and up his efficiency).  The other obvious choice would be his MVP season when he proved he could lead a team deep into the playoffs.  The 05 season just seems like a strange season to pick.

Random guess:  Dons focused on the playoffs.  AI was on fire in the post-season (31 ppg / 10 apg / .562 TS%), but his team lost in five games).

My guess is because it was the most assists per game had in his entire career while also leading the league in ppg.  He also was the primary point guard on that team. 

I feel like 2000-01 is the best season to consider when talking about AI.  He was just awesome, scoring 48 points in an NBA finals win, and you can chalk up his volume/inefficiency to not having any help around him.

People are free to choose and evaluate as they want, but here's how I will be evaluating. 
1) I will generally if not always judge a player on their 82-game regular season efficiency rather than a 5 game playoff efficiency in any season they are drafted. 
2) I mentioned this to Somebody earlier, but my evaluation is mostly based on memory and I'll use stats to help fill in the many gaps that will be there.  I don't evaluate a player's efficiency in some season in a vacuum based only on their stats that season.  If a player shoots 80% from the free throw line in a season chosen which is sandwiched between two 65% seasons, I'm not going to consider them an 80% free throw shooter in this game.
If your evaluation is the opposite of mine, I've got no qualms about that, there's no set rules regarding this, but thought I'd share my take.

To be fair the guy we were talking about made the leap this year

[gouki88]

The LA Clippers roster, with player season selections and reasoning. Players listed in positional groupings.

Steph Curry (2015-16): 30PPG, 7APG, 5RPG, 2SPG, shooting splits of 50/45/91. Accolades: MVP, All-Star, All-NBA First Team, NBA Finalist, NBA Scoring Champion, NBA Steals Champion, 50/40/90 club while setting the single-season 3PM record.
I don’t think I need to say much about Curry. He revolutionised the modern game and is arguably the most unstoppable offensive force we’ve seen since Shaq. Putting up 30+ per game while having a TS% of 67% is simply otherworldly. He’s a strong playmaker who has shown to excel alongside other great passers, and is a really strong team defender. He’s not going to clamp people like Gary Payton, but he’s a maestro at reading the passing lanes and is rarely in a bad position.

Deron Williams (2009-10): 19PPG, 11APG, 4RPG, 1SPG, shooting splits of 47/37/80. Accolades: All-Star, All-NBA Second Team, first player in NBA history to record at least 20 points and 10 or more assists in five straight games in a playoff series.
Deron Williams is in my mind the best backup PG in this competition, and gives me the strongest PG rotation in the league. He was only a hair below CP3 in his prime, being less of a defensive stud, but with essentially the same kind of offensive game. He was a fantastic passer who could score on his own and stretch the floor.

Penny Hardaway (1999-2000): 17PPG, 6RPG, 5APG, 2SPG, shooting splits of 47/32/79.
Penny is sadly thought of as kind of not doing anything post-Orlando, but I thought his first season in Phoenix, before he got the microfracture surgery, was better than the ‘97 and ‘98 seasons. He was awesome next to Kidd, and was healthy for the playoffs, where he led Phoenix past San Antonio and was great against the eventual champion Lakers. He could definitely still play.

Michael Redd (2005-06): 25PPG, 4RPG, 3APG, 1SPG, shooting splits of 45/40/88.
I didn’t choose Redd’s lone All-Star and All-NBA because he was, in my opinion, worse on both ends of the court, and in 03-04 the Bucks underperformed, whereas overachieving in 05-06. Redd is one of the best 3 point shooters ever, and he has a lovely unorthodox almost catapult lefty jumper, which threw many a defender off. He was a solid defender (drafted as a defensive specialist actually) and I think with a lesser offensive burden he would be closer to that defensive specialist.

Doug Christie (2002-03): 9PPG, 5APG, 4RPG, 2.5SPG, shooting splits of 48/40/81. Accolades: All-Defensive First Team.
Christie is one of the best defensive wing-guard players in the pool, making 4 consecutive All-Defensive teams. This season was his best shooting and defensive season, and he was a key cog in the routinely strong Sacramento team (that got robbed!). He would allow me to play a legitimate lock-down defender on the wing.

Leandro Barbosa (2006-07): 18PPG, 4APG, 3RPG, 1SPG, shooting splits of 48/43/85. Accolades: Sixth Man of the Year.
The Brazilian Blur will play a role on this team - come in for brief spurts, light it up with efficient scoring from all-over, and make opposition teams pay for playing spot-up shooters. He was truly explosive on offence (one of the fastest players I’ve ever seen), and should fit well alongside all my other guards. He won the 6MOTY award on a 61 win team for a reason.

Grant Hill (1999-2000): 26PPG, 7RPG, 5APG, 1SPG, shooting splits of 49/35/80. Accolades: All-Star, All-NBA Second Team.
I’m on record as saying I’m not really considering injuries for players who played the vast majority of the season across all teams. That’s why I took Hill so highly. He was essentially a 95% LeBron type player - less imposing and a less natural passer, but elite at similar things. He’d slot amazingly next to Curry as a secondary ball-handler, and allows Curry, Redd, Christie and Turkoglu to wreak havoc off-ball. He was also no slouch on defence.

Hedo Turkoglu (2007-08): 20PPG, 6RPG, 5APG, 1SPG, shooting splits of 46/40/83.
Hedo was sort of the prototype shooting big-wing. In my opinion he’s a very similar player to Gallinari, except better on both ends. Elite three point shooting, good passing, solid defence using his great length (6’10”), and was crucial to that 52 win Orlando team.

Elton Brand (2005-06): 25PPG, 10RPG, 3APG, 2.5BPG, 1SPG, shooting splits of 53/33/78. Accolades: All-Star, All-NBA Second Team.
Brand was in this season, in my opinion, every bit as good as Timmy and Dirk (KG was a tier above that season for me). He was elite on both ends, and led a lowly Clippers team to the playoffs, nearly upsetting the #2 seed Phoenix Suns, averaging 31PPG despite being defended by an elite defender in Shawn Marion. Had Brand been a Celtic he would be absolutely revered, and I think he provides an awesome post scoring threat to balance the perimeter game of Curry and Redd.

Lamar Odom (2005-06): 15PPG, 9RPG, 6APG, 1SPG, 1BPG, shooting splits of 48/37/69.
Lamar was really strong this year, shooting decently from deep, while providing his somewhat unique combo of ball-handling, passing, rebounding, interior scoring and decent defence. He and Kobe nearly led a complete dumpster of a team (3 other starters were Kwame, Walton and Smush) to victory in the playoffs against the #2 seed Phoenix. He provides one of the more unique weapons off the bench for this competition.

Josh Smith (2009-10): 16PPG, 9RPG, 4APG, 2BPG, 1.5SPG, shooting splits of 51/0/62. Accolades: All-Defensive Second Team.
Josh Smith was absolutely fantastic this year. Freakish athletic offence, constantly putting people on posters, alongside good passing and elite defence. He was all over the court, generating steals and blocks at a high rate, and this year he took a 3 point shot about every 11 games - perfect! He can let us go small-ball and put out some really athletic lineups alongside Brand too.

Joakim Noah (2013-14): 13PPG, 11RPG, 5.5APG, 1.5BG, 1SPG, shooting splits of 48/0/74. Accolades: Defensive Player of the Year, All-Star, All-NBA First Team, All-Defensive First Team.
Noah was an awesome defensive anchor this year, grabbing defensive rebounds, blocking shots, and being one of the best big-men we’ve ever seen at switching onto perimeter players, which is a skill I put at a premium. There have been concerns over his offence, but alongside 4 starters who all put up 25+PPG seasons I think his low usage game with absolutely elite passing is all I want and need.

Andrew Bynum (2011-12): 19PPG, 12RPG, 1APG, 2BPG, shooting splits of 56/20/69. Accolades: All-NBA Second Team, All-Star.
Some people didn’t like this pick, but I think they’re misremembering Bynum. He was the second best center in the league behind Dwight this year, providing a fearsome inside scoring presence, great rebounding and strong rim-protection. He’ll provide a great partner for Deron Williams, who was at his best with an inside scoring presence, and I think his weakness (ball-movement) is majorly offset by the passing strength of Williams, Christie, Hedo and Odom. Bynum is going to be used to help bash around inside against the tanks of this league.

David Lee (2009-10): 20PPG, 12RPG, 3.5APG, 1SPG, shooting splits of 55/0/81. Accolades: All-Star.
Started at center this season, and despite not being his All-NBA year, I think it was better all-round. Pretty minor difference though. I think he provides a different look again to my other two centers - high and low-post offence, mid-range shooting and good passing. Weak defender, but alongside guys like Brand, Smith and Noah I don’t worry too much about this. Definitely worse defensive bigs around.


The Core:
The core rotation is made up of the starting 5, Christie, D-Will, Bynum and Odom. Guys like Turkoglu, Smith, Penny and Barbosa will be playing minutes in match-ups that I think benefit them the most. Turkoglu exploiting weak defenders for easy perimeter looks, while being able to make good passes. Smith for explosive athletic two-way play at the forward spot. Penny to abuse smaller guards, Barbosa to abuse slower guards (spot-up shooters like Korver, Redick come to mind). They'll have their place, but my core 9 are my most important guys.

I don't think there are many offences in the league as skilled nor as balanced as the one my starting lineup possesses. Curry is the best shooter of all time, who is as effective on-ball and off-ball. Strong passing and solid-to-good defence too. Redd is a top-10 shooter of the league too, and can create for himself and draw fouls at a good rate. Hill is probably the second-best passing forward in the league behind LBJ, and was an elite scorer in his own right as he still had his athleticism. Elton Brand in his selected year was just as good as Timmy D and Dirk that year, providing elite inside, low and high post scoring, mid-range shooting, passing, fantastic rim-protection and good rebounding. He lifted his game in the playoffs too, and it was coincidentally when Cassell arrived, and provided Brand with a strong PG. Noah is one of the best passing centers in the league and defensive bigs, which I think perfectly complements Curry and Redd. Curry is almost as lethal, if not more so, moving off the ball, as there is little evidence of anyone being able to stick with him when he has good screeners (like Brand, Bynum, Noah).

My bench bring different looks, which is the strategy I went for from rounds 6 onward. Deron Williams was a top-2 point guard at his time, before injuries cut his time short. He was a respectable shooter from three and decent scorer, but his real strength were his amazing playmaking skills and his strength. He brings a different look to Curry (think a 95% Chris Paul), but he'll be an amazing 6th man. Doug Christie is one of the best defenders in the league, being able to defend 1-3 very well, and shoot the three at a good %. He was also a good passer for his position, and has evidence of deferring to stronger offensive weapons (Webber, Peja, Bibby). Hedo was a superb shooting bigger wing, like the prototype to Gallinari (except better and more durable). He was also a strong passer, working well with athletic bigs (mainly Dwight). Lamar Odom is a pretty known presence - great passing and ball-handling, good rebounding, defence and scoring, and shooting that is quite streaky. He won't be relied upon as a shooter though, so that weakness won't be pronounced. Bynum is one of the biggest and strongest low-post bangers, being able to rumble with the strongest of them on both ends. His rim-protection was strong too, and he was a great rebounder.

My deep bench has a 6MOTY, an All-Star, a top wing-big defender and a 6'7" dynamo point guard who lifted his game in the playoffs. They won't all play every game, as it is very match-up dependent, but I think they again provide different looks to my other guys. A lightning fast elite-shooting scorer guard, a low-post and high-post monster with great passing, a rim-rocking freak athlete with great defensive instincts, and one of the most unique PG's of all time.

My strategy was to build an elite, fluid offence with top defenders for every occasion - a DPOY big with two elite defensive PF's, and a lockdown guard-wing. Curry is perhaps, along with Shaq, the single most game-breaking offensive force in the league.

I hope y'all like my team, but if you can't be bothered reading all this, I also get that. Lol.

I'm currently up at my farm as chestnut harvest season snuck up on my family (we have a farm!). I might not be able to post as frequently or defend my team as ardently, so I thought I'd get it all out here, haha. Thanks for the great month of fantasy b-ball fun

[nickagneta]

Remember everyone. Get your votes in and please...in the format of the announcement that is on page 30 and in the OP of this thread that also has every team's roster.

[Somebody]

Toronto Raptors (sorry for copying your table Roy , it's really handy for saving space)

Player	Season	Position	Points per 100	Rebounds per 100	Assists per 100	Steals per 100	Blocks per 100	TS%(rTS%)	WS/48	ORAPM	DRAPM	RAPM(rank)
Kevin Garnett	2003-2004	Forward-Centre	33.2	19.0	6.8	2.0	3.0	54.7(+3.1)	.272	5.5	4.51	10.01 (1st)
David Robinson	1999-2000	Centre	29.5	15.9	2.9	2.0	3.8	56.8(+4.5)	.238	1.96	4.53	6.49(4th)
Vince Carter	2000-2001	Guard-Forward	36.7	7.4	5.2	2.0	1.5	55.1(+3.3)	.208	NPI	NPI	NPI (17th)
Kyle Lowry	2016-2017	Guard	30.4	6.5	9.4	2.0	0.4	62.3(+7.1)	.216	2.37	2.26	4.63(6th)
Khris Middleton	2019-2020	Guard-Forward	32.0	9.4	6.2	1.4	0.2	61.9(+5.5)	.214	NPI	NPI	NPI (19th)
Luol Deng	2010-2011	Forward	23.7	7.9	3.8	1.3	0.8	54.9(+0.8)	.149	0.21	3.64	3.85(16th)
Kemba Walker	2019-2020	Point Guard	32.2	6.2	7.5	1.4	0.8	56.9(+0.5)	.163	NPI(8th)	NPI	NPI(114th)
Vlade Divac	1999-2000	Centre	20.5	13.4	5.0	2.1	2.1	55.2(+2.9)	.145	1.54	4.31	5.85(9th)
Antawn Jamison	2005-2006	Power Forward	26.6	12.1	2.5	1.4	0.2	51.8(-1.8)	.119	3.76	-1.37	2.39(37th)
Donovan Mitchell	2019-2020	Guard	34.3	6.2	5.9	1.5	0.2	56.0(-0.4)	.115	NPI	NPI	NPI(357th)
Danilo Gallinari	2018-2019	Forward	30.9	9.6	4.1	1.1	0.5	63.3(+7.3)	.191	NPI	NPI	NPI(67th)
Malcolm Brogdon	2018-2019	Guard	25.4	7.3	5.2	1.2	0.3	61.4(+5.4)	.171	NPI	NPI	NPI(33rd)
Patrick Beverley	2016-2017	Guard	14.9	9.2	6.6	2.3	0.6	54.6(-0.6)	.123	1.92	0.82	2.74(21st)
Shawn Bradley	2002-2003	Centre	16.3	14.3	1.6	1.9	5.1	60.1(+8.2)	.204	-2.37	4.85	2.48(34th)

General Rotation:
PG: Kyle Lowry/Kemba Walker/Patrick Beverley
SG: Vince Carter/Donovan Mitchell/Malcolm Brogdon
SF: Khris Middleton/Luol Deng/Danilo Gallinari
PF: Kevin Garnett/Antawn Jamison
C: David Robinson/Vlade Divac/Shawn Bradley

Team Philosophy
This calling card of this team will quite clearly be defence: we have arguably the best defensive starting frontcourt in this draft with Kevin Garnett and David Robinson, who will be flanked by versatile wings in Khris Middleton and Vince Carter, as well as a scrappy point of attack defender who has great defensive awareness in Kyle Lowry up top. Our defence will start with Lowry's physicality and savviness in defending perimeter guards, pestering smaller offensive engines who make their impact on offence by constantly pressuring defences with their threat to score or pass. He's also able to guard bigger players (whether is it a big guard man to man or wings/bigs on switches) due to his girth and aforementioned physicality, giving us much needed defensive versatility at the PG position. Our wings will bother opposing players with their athleticism (Carter) and length (Middleton), with Middleton picking up the opponent's best offensive wing with his smart defence that has played a big part in a dominant Milwaukee team's 1st ranked defence this year. If any perimeter player gets past our first line of defence, they will meet a wall in the paint that's mobile enough to chase them out to the perimeter by the name of Kevin Garnett, while the Admiral will swat away any half-hearted attempts at the rim if Garnett is drawn outside. There have been concerns over the Admiral's ability to cover perimeter players, but I believe that he still has enough agility to defend a guard or wing decently to give our perimeter defenders the time needed to recover and stifle the action. Our defence is the best in this league and we will greatly hinder every offence teams throw at us.

Our offence will be fixated on maximising efficiency as a collective unit. All of our starters can shoot, pass, finish and move off ball, and we will be using this to generate clean looks from anywhere on the court. Vince Carter will give us explosive scoring and strong wing creation as our main perimeter engine while Kevin Garnett will be his partner in our 1-2 punch as a historically good big man passer and an incredible lob/shooting threat who showed the ability to create his own shot at a high level in a criminally underrated 2004 playoff run. Kyle Lowry will be our secondary ballhandler with his high level pick and roll reads that can be devastating to less mobile frontcourts with Garnett and Robinson (a dangerous roll man who can also pop outside to shoot, presumably threes in this format where historic players will be playing in a more modern style) as his target men, while Khris Middleton will be playing a role he's excelled at in Milwaukee: a tertiary creator and secondary scorer who moves off the ball to provide spacing, extra passing, a threat to score off cuts/weaves and strong isolation scoring in bursts to break down defences. Our transition offence will be a menace to any team: Lowry excels at attacking unsuspecting defences after a made basket/missed shot, Carter is a monster at finishing in transition, Middleton can spam transition threes at memeworthy clips (I believe most of us Celtics fans here have witnessed this ), young Garnett runs like an automaton after the defensive possession is over and old Robinson still slashes to the rim like a cyborg. This allows us to pick up easy points in transition, bumping up our offensive efficiency, as well as forcing teams to give up offensive rebounding completely to stymie our transition attacks.

Our bench was assembled to give us options against specific matchups. Kemba Walker is a speedy point guard who excels at scoring and playmaking both on the ball and off the ball, Donovan Mitchell is an ball hub who can prevent inept offences from crumbling while providing strong defensive value as a guard, Luol Deng is a defensive maestro who has nice complementary attributes on offence, Antawn Jamison is an excellent finisher who can hunt for scoring opportunities in a myriad of ways and Vlade Divac is an underrated two way centre with excellent passing, shooting touch and mobility on defence. Our third stringers can also be high impact subs. Patrick Beverley offers elite point of attack defence as well as good floor spacing and extra passing, Malcolm Brogdon is a versatile two way guard who can attack closeouts and act as a secondary creator if needed, and Danilo Gallinari can be brought in as either a small or power forward to abuse traditional forwards with his unique combination of shooting, playmaking and shot creation.

All in all, my team aims to create a historically good defence as well as an efficient offence that can pick on specific matchups with versatility and synergy. You don't have to like my team (I certainly acknowledge that there can be a difference in opinion), but I hope that you can understand the concepts I built my team around.

[Who]

On Andre Miller,

I am not a fan of his game in this setting. He has a poor off-ball offensive game. His lack of a reliable outside shot hurts the team. He needs to be on-ball and he isn't as dynamic off the dribble as other guards in this Historical League. On the defensive end, he was only adequate IRL so he doesn't add much there either.

Overall, I don't rate him as a rotation player in this league and probably not a 3rd stringer either. Just not a fan of his game.

I consider Andre Miller the type of player who does well on bad to average teams but shrinks on better teams because his lack of team offense, need for the ball in his hands, and so-so defense.

You could see this with him when he had chances to play with better offensive talent. Like on Team USA and later in his career in Portland when he failed to make a difference on that team when competing with a limited PG like Steve Blake. Miller didn't do well on that young Clippers team either.

So for me, it's Iverson at starting PG by default. And I'd go with CJ McCollum at backup PG and refuse to play Andre Miller as much as possible.

[Somebody]

On Andre Miller,

I am not a fan of his game in this setting. He has a poor off-ball offensive game. His lack of a reliable outside shot hurts the team. He needs to be on-ball and he isn't as dynamic off the dribble as other guards in this Historical League. On the defensive end, he was only adequate IRL so he doesn't add much there either.

Overall, I don't rate him as a rotation player in this league and probably not a 3rd stringer either. Just not a fan of his game.

I consider Andre Miller the type of player who does well on bad to average teams but shrinks on better teams because his lack of team offense, need for the ball in his hands, and so-so defense.

You could see this with him when he had chances to play with better offensive talent. Like on Team USA and later in his career in Portland when he failed to make a difference on that team when competing with a limited PG like Steve Blake. Miller didn't do well on that young Clippers team either.

So for me, it's Iverson at starting PG by default. And I'd go with CJ McCollum at backup PG and refuse to play Andre Miller as much as possible.

Both options don't sound promising either, it's a difficult situation for Brooklyn.

[Roy H.]

Somebody, is Antwan Jamison a rotation player in this league?  I looked at your table, and he sticks out as being below average offensively.  Then, there’s his reputation as a terrible defender.

Gallinari might be better there?

[Somebody]

Nick PMed me just now regarding how my inclusion of + / - metrics would hurt the perception of my team due to how wonky some of them are, so I'm writing this post to explain why I included them in the table.

The RAPM stats I posted were meant to be used alongside adjusted and composite box stats like the ones I posted in the table to give people a rough idea of how "valuable" a player was that season, a signal of where a player stands in both box and non box data is much more reliable than just gawking at raw box scores or raw + / - data (RAPM is adjusted for a multitude of factors, here's an explanation on how is it useful in some instances https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1384403&start=60, second post of the page by trex_8063). Now the NPI data can be very wonky (it doesn't use data in prior years to stabilise the results), but the PI data and 2017 NPI + playoffs data can be used in some way to give you an idea of how good the player was alongside box stats.

[Somebody]

Somebody, is Antwan Jamison a rotation player in this league?  I looked at your table, and he sticks out as being below average offensively.  Then, there’s his reputation as a terrible defender.

Gallinari might be better there?

Ah that's why I put ORAPM in the table (it's PI by Jeremias Engelmann so it's quite reliable), he grades out as a really good offensive player if you look at them plus the box stats. The likely explanation for his poor efficiency stats in Washington is that he was required to create offence for himself and his team, which is disastrous due to his rather poor ballhandling and passing. His stint in Dallas with an elite offensive engine in Nash and other offensive weapons like Dirk and Finley had him relegated to being more of a finisher, which had him posting a 58% TS that season with his really good ability at finding places to finish shot opportunities: he knows how to cut, crash the glass, move off ball to get himself open, etc. I'm not worried about his efficiency that much with a playmaking C like Divac and two good passers in Kemba and Mitchell on the bench who can create those finishing looks for him (side note: Mitchell's impact stats this year are horrid, but he was ranked in the 30s last year in the exact same metric, that's the wonkiness of NPI RAPM).

But yes I intend on playing Gallo instead of him against traditional PFs who can bully his tweener forward frame, his defensive numbers were poor because he had to bang with bigger forwards often in the 00s. Gallo can take advantage of those traditional PFs on offence while having the size to at least bother them on defence, so I intend to be quite fluid with my backup forward rotation (I might even play Deng at PF against smaller lineups).

[Donoghus]

Trying to go more in depth here.


Finally had some team to do a little bit a deeper discussion of my team.

Brooklyn Nets

Starters

PG - Andre Miller ('06-07) - 13.4 ppg, 7.8 AST, .469 eFG, 1.4 STL
SG - Tracy McGrady ('02-03) - All NBA 1st team, lead league in scoring. .505 eFG
SF - Shawn Marion ('05-06) - All NBA 3rd team,  21.8 ppg, 11.8 rpg, A
PF - Blake Griffin ('13-14) - All NBA 2nd team. 24.1 ppg, .533 eFG, 9.5 rpg
C- Anthony Davis ('17-18) -  All NBA 1st team, All Defensive 1st team,  28.1 ppg, 2.6 BLK

Reserves

Allen Iverson ('04-05) - All NBA 1st team,  30.7 ppg, .453 eFG, 10 assists in ASG
Yao Ming ('04-05) - All star , 80 games played, 17.5 ppg, 9.0 RPG
CJ McCollum ('16-17) - 23 PPG, .912 FT%, .544 eFG
Shane Battier ('06-07) - Glue guy, top notch defender, .567 eFG,
David West ('07-08) - All star, 20.6 ppg, .484 eFG, 8.9 rpg
Theo Ratliff ('00-01) - All star, lead league in BPG at 3.7, 12.4 ppg, 8.3 rpg

Eddie House ('08-09) - .444 3P%, .579 eFG
Jamaal Magloire ('03-04) - All star, 10.3 rpg
James Posey ('07-08) - NBA Champion, key reserve & defender.

The ping-pong balls didn't fall my way & I ended up with the 14th pick to start off the draft.  Knowing this, my strategy almost immediately pivoted to trying to build an exciting, fun & cohesive team unit. One that may not be the best but one that should darn as heck be the most exciting, League Pass team of this exercise.  Given where I was drafting & knowing I was not going to end up with one of the alphas of this league, I'm very happy where my team ended up.

I feel like this team is very flexible with its personnel where it can be fast break, up-tempo oriented but also switch into a very cohesive half court team when Yao comes in and slides AD to PF.    This team has the ability to go off offensively but also is littered with strong, versatile defenders.   We have the size down below to make life terrible in the paint for the opposition with the length of AD, Yao, & Ratliff but we also have very strong defenders out on the perimeter in Shane Battier & James Posey.   We have scorers, we have rebounders, defenders.  I just think we're a very well balanced team.

I think the Iverson thing is overblown and you'll see a more national team/ASG version of AI.  When surrounded legit talent, Iverson was able to play more of a team style offense.   You're also getting a guy who's going to leave it all out on the court.  Good or bad. I think I've surrounded him with enough solid locker room guys, there won't be an issue.  You're also getting a more mature 29 year old than one of the younger incarnations.