Besides the Warriors tell me...

[TheReaLPuba]

...what contending team has a lead star be a small(ish) Point Guard.

And arguably Curry is not the lead guy anymore (KD).

Maybe Lillard? But are the Trailblazers a legit contending team? I don't believe so.

Lowry? Even with Derozan they always flopped in the playoffs.

In this current NBA I just don't see the lead guy being at this PG position. There's too many wings and bigger players that can neutralize the position.

And if you're PG is so ball dominant that totally reduces the effectiveness of the other players.

I can only think of an ex-Celtic.

When we had a healthy IT.....he knew how to get guys involved early and then take over in the 4th.

He instilled a belief to his teammates that the team was never out of it even if they fell back double digits.

Sure he was smaller than most PG's but he played bigger than his physical size and more importantly he played with great heart.

He was a player the rest of the team could get behind.

Even currently constructed this C's team only goes as far as Tatum and Brown.

If these two don't play well (on both ends of the floor) this team isn't going anywhere.

[Chris22]

I have been saying this for years.

The MVP of the Finals is very rarely ever a point guard.

[gouki88]

LOL. Criticising Kyrie for "reducing the effectiveness" of his teammates, but praising IT's ability to get guys involved is hilarious. Kyrie has been a much better passer this season than IT ever has been.

And almost all of the contending teams have an elite point guard. Curry, Lillard, Westbrook, Paul (even though he's declined, he's played well when healthy), and Lowry. The teams that contend without an elite PG usually do it by virtue of having some unique player, like a Giannis, or a Jokic, or an Embiid, yet even those teams all have good reliable guard play.

You only have to look back through the last 10 years to see plenty of examples of elite teams with elite guards. San Antonio, Miami and our very own 2008-2012 team had awesome guard play.

Can you tell me what team last won without an elite clutch scorer?

[gpap]

LOL. Criticising Kyrie for "reducing the effectiveness" of his teammates, but praising IT's ability to get guys involved is hilarious. Kyrie has been a much better passer this season than IT ever has been.

And almost all of the contending teams have an elite point guard. Curry, Lillard, Westbrook, Paul (even though he's declined, he's played well when healthy), and Lowry. The teams that contend without an elite PG usually do it by virtue of having some unique player, like a Giannis, or a Jokic, or an Embiid, yet even those teams all have good reliable guard play.

You only have to look back through the last 10 years to see plenty of examples of elite teams with elite guards. San Antonio, Miami and our very own 2008-2012 team had awesome guard play.

Can you tell me what team last won without an elite clutch scorer?

It's ridiculous!! Kyrie could literally be averaging 100 points and 80 assist per game and people would still be crucifying him.

[gouki88]

LOL. Criticising Kyrie for "reducing the effectiveness" of his teammates, but praising IT's ability to get guys involved is hilarious. Kyrie has been a much better passer this season than IT ever has been.

And almost all of the contending teams have an elite point guard. Curry, Lillard, Westbrook, Paul (even though he's declined, he's played well when healthy), and Lowry. The teams that contend without an elite PG usually do it by virtue of having some unique player, like a Giannis, or a Jokic, or an Embiid, yet even those teams all have good reliable guard play.

You only have to look back through the last 10 years to see plenty of examples of elite teams with elite guards. San Antonio, Miami and our very own 2008-2012 team had awesome guard play.

Can you tell me what team last won without an elite clutch scorer?

It's ridiculous!! Kyrie could literally be averaging 100 points and 80 assist per game and people would still be crucifying him.

He could turn into Wilt with a 3 point shot and people would nitpick at something. Jeesh

[nickagneta]

LOL. Criticising Kyrie for "reducing the effectiveness" of his teammates, but praising IT's ability to get guys involved is hilarious. Kyrie has been a much better passer this season than IT ever has been.

TP for this. It stunned me to see someone condemn Kyrie for not getting his team mates involved and cited IT as an example of someone who did.

[celtics4ever33]

It doesn't have to be Kyrie being bad or good at anything.

Simply his presense doesnt seem to be upgrading his teammates. Just like a coach not getting through to the team and losing it. Kyrie might be good, he might be great at closing, but many of the players dont seem to be uplifted. They don't care.

[Roy H.]

LOL. Criticising Kyrie for "reducing the effectiveness" of his teammates, but praising IT's ability to get guys involved is hilarious. Kyrie has been a much better passer this season than IT ever has been.

And almost all of the contending teams have an elite point guard. Curry, Lillard, Westbrook, Paul (even though he's declined, he's played well when healthy), and Lowry. The teams that contend without an elite PG usually do it by virtue of having some unique player, like a Giannis, or a Jokic, or an Embiid, yet even those teams all have good reliable guard play.

You only have to look back through the last 10 years to see plenty of examples of elite teams with elite guards. San Antonio, Miami and our very own 2008-2012 team had awesome guard play.

Can you tell me what team last won without an elite clutch scorer?

It's ridiculous!! Kyrie could literally be averaging 100 points and 80 assist per game and people would still be crucifying him.

I don’t know. If we were averaging 260+ points per night, that might be enough to appease nearly all fans.

[keevsnick]

If your argument is essentially you arent winning a championship with Kyrie as your best player than you are correct. That's why we are going after Davis. Because you most certainly can win if Kyrie is your second best player.

[TheReaLPuba]

LOL. Criticising Kyrie for "reducing the effectiveness" of his teammates, but praising IT's ability to get guys involved is hilarious. Kyrie has been a much better passer this season than IT ever has been.

And almost all of the contending teams have an elite point guard. Curry, Lillard, Westbrook, Paul (even though he's declined, he's played well when healthy), and Lowry. The teams that contend without an elite PG usually do it by virtue of having some unique player, like a Giannis, or a Jokic, or an Embiid, yet even those teams all have good reliable guard play.

You only have to look back through the last 10 years to see plenty of examples of elite teams with elite guards. San Antonio, Miami and our very own 2008-2012 team had awesome guard play.

Can you tell me what team last won without an elite clutch scorer?

They’ve had them as a piece but not the #1 guy.

Maybe not since Chauncey Billups?

Allen Iverson I guess made the finals one year...arguably a contending team.

And Kyrie getting the brunt of the criticism comes with the territory.

He wanted the responsibility and now he’s got to deal.

Results matter.

This team should not be losing to the Bulls in game 60+ of the regular season.

And don’t blame injuries....every team has em. We are suppose to be a deep team.

I still don’t understand why some Celtics fans are still making excuses for this team.

[celtics4ever33]

LOL. Criticising Kyrie for "reducing the effectiveness" of his teammates, but praising IT's ability to get guys involved is hilarious. Kyrie has been a much better passer this season than IT ever has been.

And almost all of the contending teams have an elite point guard. Curry, Lillard, Westbrook, Paul (even though he's declined, he's played well when healthy), and Lowry. The teams that contend without an elite PG usually do it by virtue of having some unique player, like a Giannis, or a Jokic, or an Embiid, yet even those teams all have good reliable guard play.

You only have to look back through the last 10 years to see plenty of examples of elite teams with elite guards. San Antonio, Miami and our very own 2008-2012 team had awesome guard play.

Can you tell me what team last won without an elite clutch scorer?

They’ve had them as a piece but not the #1 guy.

Maybe not since Chauncey Billups?

Allen Iverson I guess made the finals one year...arguably a contending team.

And Kyrie getting the brunt of the criticism comes with the territory.

He wanted the responsibility and now he’s got to deal.

Results matter.

This team should not be losing to the Bulls in game 60+ of the regular season.

And don’t blame injuries....every team has em. We are suppose to be a deep team.

I still don’t understand why some Celtics fans are still making excuses for this team.

The answer is simple.

That is what Celtic fans do. Especially when they have to defend a favorite player.


Which is why you will have trouble making the point.

Kyrie is a bad dude, but is the team behind him? Do they play harder? Do they back him up?

It does not look like they do. So yea, Kyrie MAY not be the guy we think he is. Same thing for Brad, have they tuned out a bit? We don't know, but sometimes it's not being about the talent or play, or how good of a coach, sometimes, its the response are not coming from certain players.

Which isnt always to put blame on a player, but the situation in its current predicament, just has so much drama, so much indifference and so much questions, heading to off season, rise of Tatum , etc. that this team is just really bothered in every direction.

[TheReaLPuba]

LOL. Criticising Kyrie for "reducing the effectiveness" of his teammates, but praising IT's ability to get guys involved is hilarious. Kyrie has been a much better passer this season than IT ever has been.

TP for this. It stunned me to see someone condemn Kyrie for not getting his team mates involved and cited IT as an example of someone who did.

Well Isaiah is the only fair comparison as he’s taken a lesser talented team further.

He’s also had arguable one for the greatest statistical seasons in Celtics history averaging 28.9 pts and 5.9 assists.

Fans really do have short memories and forget how great IT was....a legit MVP candidate.

[C3LTSF4N]

LOL. Criticising Kyrie for "reducing the effectiveness" of his teammates, but praising IT's ability to get guys involved is hilarious. Kyrie has been a much better passer this season than IT ever has been.

TP for this. It stunned me to see someone condemn Kyrie for not getting his team mates involved and cited IT as an example of someone who did.

Well Isaiah is the only fair comparison as he’s taken a lesser talented team further.

He’s also had arguable one for the greatest statistical seasons in Celtics history averaging 28.9 pts and 5.9 assists.

Fans really do have short memories and forget how great IT was....a legit MVP candidate.

That was then, this is now.  Isaiah is nowhere near the player now that he was then and he never will be.  They were great years that I loved and I’ll never forget it but we aren’t better off with that version of IT.  It’s not reality regardless.  Irving’s current stat line end to end is just as impressive; less points and FTs but shoots better from the field by over 3% with more assists, steals and blocks. 

Saying IT took another team further?  I don’t know they barely made it to the conference finals and the east was a lot weaker then.  Kyrie hasn’t had the chance to lead through the playoffs yet so we will see.  That team worked because we had only 1 alpha and a bunch of role players who needed an offensive talent desperately.  Now we have Rozier chomping at the bit, Jaylen, Jayson, Morris and Hayward to a degree.   That’s a lot more guys who need the ball so you can’t blame all the chemistry issues on Kyrie.