2019 Celtics - Best team ever?

[gift]

I'm in the 60-65 win, chance to win a championship, camp.

[Moranis]

I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.

If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Not crazy at all. Rondo wasn't Rondo yet and Perk topped out as a valuable defender of big men and great locker room guy. This year the Celtics are likely going to start 5 guys who will be all stars or borderline all stars.

But Garnett and Pierce were better than anyone on the current team and Allen peaked higher than anyone on the current team has (though Irving is still pointing up and probably peaks higher than Ray did).  So yeah Rondo and Perk might have been the 9th and 10th men if you were picking teams, but the first pick would have been Garnett and the 2nd pick would have been Pierce.  And that matters a great deal more.

[smokeablount]

I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.

If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Kyrie > PP34 (if things break right that is... Kyrie could be an MVP candidate, PP wasn't in '08)
Horford < KG (in '08 at least, though this might be a little closer than some people think)
Hayward ? Ray Allen (not sure what to expect here, GH could be better, or worse with rust)
Tatum > Rondo (JT in year 2 should be notably better than 2nd year Rondo by midseason)
Brown >> Perk (Brown at 21 is expontentially better than Perk ever has been)

So this year's 4th and 5th starter definitely have an edge, KG beats Al by some margin, and Kyrie is likely to either equal or top Pierce in my mind as the clear cut #1 guy on this team. 

That's 3 of 4, so how will Hayward fare?  If Ray outperforms Hayward, then 2 of their big 3 will outperform 2 of ours, and that might give them the edge in a stars league, even tho our 5 edge our their 5 overall by a count of 3-2 (Kyrie, Tatum, Brown > PP, Rondo, Perk).

EDIT - That said, I don't expect 70 or even 65 wins.  I think 62 would be amazing.

[Casperian]

lol

[smokeablount]

I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.

If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Not crazy at all. Rondo wasn't Rondo yet and Perk topped out as a valuable defender of big men and great locker room guy. This year the Celtics are likely going to start 5 guys who will be all stars or borderline all stars.

But Garnett and Pierce were better than anyone on the current team and Allen peaked higher than anyone on the current team has (though Irving is still pointing up and probably peaks higher than Ray did).  So yeah Rondo and Perk might have been the 9th and 10th men if you were picking teams, but the first pick would have been Garnett and the 2nd pick would have been Pierce.  And that matters a great deal more.

Irving was a potential top 5 MVP candidate when he was healthy last year, before the last month or two of the season.  That wasn't ever the case for Pierce in '08. 

Also considering Kyrie is already a champ / top 3 player in a historic finals, All Star Game MVP, is a 5 time All Star at 25, and was a top 2-3 player on an Olympic Gold medal team, I think he has a decent argument to be given the nod over '08 Pierce.  And I love me some Pierce.

EDIT - That said, I don't expect 70 or even 65 wins.  I think 62 would be amazing.

[Ilikesports17]

I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.

If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Not crazy at all. Rondo wasn't Rondo yet and Perk topped out as a valuable defender of big men and great locker room guy. This year the Celtics are likely going to start 5 guys who will be all stars or borderline all stars.

KG and arguably Pierce were better than anyone on this roster tho.

I do give Irving the advantage over Ray.

[Big333223]

I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.

If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Not crazy at all. Rondo wasn't Rondo yet and Perk topped out as a valuable defender of big men and great locker room guy. This year the Celtics are likely going to start 5 guys who will be all stars or borderline all stars.

KG and arguably Pierce were better than anyone on this roster tho.

I do give Irving the advantage over Ray.

I would say Irving is at least as good as Pierce in '08.

And comparing the worst players in both starting lineups means comparing Kendrick Perkins to Jaylen Brown. That is one heck of a gap.

[GreenFaith1819]

If we can somehow dethrone GSW (and of course get out of the East) then we could have a better argument for BTE...

[Moranis]

I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.

If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

Not crazy at all. Rondo wasn't Rondo yet and Perk topped out as a valuable defender of big men and great locker room guy. This year the Celtics are likely going to start 5 guys who will be all stars or borderline all stars.

But Garnett and Pierce were better than anyone on the current team and Allen peaked higher than anyone on the current team has (though Irving is still pointing up and probably peaks higher than Ray did).  So yeah Rondo and Perk might have been the 9th and 10th men if you were picking teams, but the first pick would have been Garnett and the 2nd pick would have been Pierce.  And that matters a great deal more.

Irving was a potential top 5 MVP candidate when he was healthy last year, before the last month or two of the season.  That wasn't ever the case for Pierce in '08. 

Also considering Kyrie is already a champ / top 3 player in a historic finals, All Star Game MVP, is a 5 time All Star at 25, and was a top 2-3 player on an Olympic Gold medal team, I think he has a decent argument to be given the nod over '08 Pierce.  And I love me some Pierce.

EDIT - That said, I don't expect 70 or even 65 wins.  I think 62 would be amazing.

Pierce finished 14th in MVP in 08, though Garnett finished 3rd (because Garnett was a better player than him).  The next season when KG was out, Pierce finished 7th in MVP voting.  On the Antoine teams, Pierce finished 13th, 11th, and 11th in MVP voting as well.  Pierce was on bad teams from 04 to 08, but that was when he was at his physical peak.  You just don't get voted for awards when your team stinks. 

I fully maintain that Pierce in 08 will almost certainly be better than Irving in 19.  Irving is a terrible defender, mediocre passer, poor rebounder, etc.  He is incredible with the ball in his hand and can score at will, but that doesn't make him better than an in prime Paul Pierce.

[GreenEnvy]

I can't decide if I was more excited heading into the '07-'08 season, or now heading into the '18-'19 season!

I want to say now, but that might just be more recency bias.

Yeah this is probably the most excited I’ve gone into a season since 2009-10 (expecting a healthy KG).

But that 2007-08 season had me waking up early for a preseason game in Italy.

If healthy, I believe this starting five is more talented than the starting five that won the championship in 07-08.

I believe as a whole they can be (hopefully), but let’s not forget how good the top-3 were (and Rondo would be at his peak).

The 2008 Celtics were arguably the best Celtics team ever statistically (yes, I know, blasphemy).

That Celtics team is a truly underrated team. I suppose that’s because of their playoff “struggles,” but it still resulted in a championship. And that’s all that matters. If they went 16-3, they would be in the conversation amongst the best ever. But that I chalk up to Doc and it being the first year together, because we absolutely decimated the competition throughout the season (including all the best teams, including sweeping the Texas Triangle and stopping the Rockets 22-game winning streak or whatever it was. We only struggled against Washington, for whatever reason, and Cleveland, for the obvious reason).

This 2018 team is definitely deeper (and I hope better, as I’ve said on here before they can challenge the franchise record), but I’m not sure they have three all-time greats in their prime.

I’m pretty convinced there wasn’t a more complimentary trio on NBA history than Pierce-Garnett-Allen. If you look beyond them, there really wasn’t much when you think about it. And they dominated the league like few teams ever have.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I feel the urge to say, "Let's not get ahead of ourselves, people."

In claiming that this year's Cs could be the best team ever, the first assumption that has to be made is good health, and I really think that shouldn't be assumed. And I'm not saying that just because of what happened with Irving and Hayward last season; I'm saying it because it's true. Injuries happen all the time; lots of players and teams get derailed by them. It's amazing that LeBron has never suffered a major injury, and that Golden State has gone the last FOUR seasons without having to deal with a major injury. Whereas Boston has suffered at least one major injury in each of the last 10 seasons, going back to KG's knee. Hopefully Boston finally has some good fortune on that front, but assuming such a thing is probably unwise.

[tenn_smoothie]

Little bit of clickbait, sorry! 

Will the team that beats the warriors (hopefully us) be considered one of the best teams of all time, as the warriors are considerd on a level with jordans bulls?
What would have happened if Jordans bulls lost to Utah or Seattle? How would they be remembered?

Just some random thoughts 

Jordan's Bulls were well down from best team ever - I don't care how many games they won in that watered down league.

Whatever these Celtics do, be patient Danny. As long as the Kings can stay out of the league cellar, we stand a great chance at a top 4 pick. He has built a title-contender for the next decade and beyond. Banners should be in our immediate and distant future.

[celticsclay]

I feel the urge to say, "Let's not get ahead of ourselves, people."

In claiming that this year's Cs could be the best team ever, the first assumption that has to be made is good health, and I really think that shouldn't be assumed. And I'm not saying that just because of what happened with Irving and Hayward last season; I'm saying it because it's true. Injuries happen all the time; lots of players and teams get derailed by them. It's amazing that LeBron has never suffered a major injury, and that Golden State has gone the last FOUR seasons without having to deal with a major injury. Whereas Boston has suffered at least one major injury in each of the last 10 seasons, going back to KG's knee. Hopefully Boston finally has some good fortune on that front, but assuming such a thing is probably unwise.

Curry has missed a bunch of playoff games, and Durant missed quite a few last year. Do you mean like a season ending one?

[Celtics17]

I dont know about best team ever but we may be the best team in the NBA this year! I know, GS has won it 3 of the last four and almost looks unbeatable in a series. The thing is though, I really feel like Jaylen Brown is going to have a breakout season and Tatum is going to show the entire league who the best player on the Celtics really is.

If Hayward can regain form, and he will, this team can beat anyone.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I feel the urge to say, "Let's not get ahead of ourselves, people."

In claiming that this year's Cs could be the best team ever, the first assumption that has to be made is good health, and I really think that shouldn't be assumed. And I'm not saying that just because of what happened with Irving and Hayward last season; I'm saying it because it's true. Injuries happen all the time; lots of players and teams get derailed by them. It's amazing that LeBron has never suffered a major injury, and that Golden State has gone the last FOUR seasons without having to deal with a major injury. Whereas Boston has suffered at least one major injury in each of the last 10 seasons, going back to KG's knee. Hopefully Boston finally has some good fortune on that front, but assuming such a thing is probably unwise.

Curry has missed a bunch of playoff games, and Durant missed quite a few last year. Do you mean like a season ending one?

Something along those lines. I know Curry missed some with, I think, an ankle injury, but neither his injury nor KD's caused them to miss, like, half a season or more.