Does Rozier make Kyrie expendable / tradeable?

[Phantom255x]

The answer is still no. It's all cool and nice having these guys scoring and all that. But it's one thing to score like this, it's another when teams fully game-plan against you and you still perform. That's what makes stars stars.

Rozier has been amazing though for the most part in the playoffs. He still needs to perform away from Home. He hasn't.

If we got Kawhi, teams still wouldn’t be game planning for Rozier, Tatum, etc.

Wait I'm confused. What does this mean?  (Sorry maybe I'm just not reading into this clearly)

[Sophomore]

As long as Rozier only plays in the Garden during playoff games, he's unstoppable! So we just have to figure out what to do the rest of the season.

[LarBrd33]

I've been making that joke for months.  Terry looks good so let's just move Kyrie for Davis. 

But the reality is that Kyrie is an injured point guard heading into the final year of his contract.  It's a similar situation to Isaiah Thomas last year when he was an injured point guard heading into the final year of his contract.

Moving Thomas (injured PG heading into final year of contract) + Crowder (solid borderline starter on good contract) and the Brooklyn 1st (possibly top 5 at the time) for Kyrie (injury-prone all-star with 2 years left on his deal) would be kind of similar to offering Kyrie (injured PG heading into final year of contract) + Morris (solid borderline starter on good contract) and the Kings 1st (possibly top 5) for Kawhi (injury-prone all-star with 2 years left on his deal). 

That's not gonna happen.  Anyone who trades for Kyrie is at a risk of losing him.  We aren't going to get full value for him, because of his contract situation.  There's a small chance he bails on us after next season as well.  Hopefully not.  He's pretty amazing when healthy.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I've been making that joke for months.  Terry looks good so let's just move Kyrie for Davis. 

But the reality is that Kyrie is an injured point guard heading into the final year of his contract.  It's a similar situation to Isaiah Thomas last year when he was an injured point guard heading into the final year of his contract.

Moving Thomas (injured PG heading into final year of contract) + Crowder (solid borderline starter on good contract) and the Brooklyn 1st (possibly top 5 at the time) for Kyrie (injury-prone all-star with 2 years left on his deal) would be kind of similar to offering Kyrie (injured PG heading into final year of contract) + Morris (solid borderline starter on good contract) and the Kings 1st (possibly top 5) for Kawhi (injury-prone all-star with 2 years left on his deal). 

That's not gonna happen.  Anyone who trades for Kyrie is at a risk of losing him.  We aren't going to get full value for him, because of his contract situation.  There's a small chance he bails on us after next season as well.  Hopefully not. He's pretty amazing when healthy.

Agree on all counts, Michelangelo.  I don't get the impression that Kyrie is all-in on Boston, but that may just reflect his personality.  It's nice that both he and Rozier will expire at the same time though, giving us an opportunity to resign a home-grown, solid option in the event Kyrie elects to bail.  That seems doubtful though - highly doubt he finds a better immediate and future situation outside of Boston. 

[Roy H.]

The answer is still no. It's all cool and nice having these guys scoring and all that. But it's one thing to score like this, it's another when teams fully game-plan against you and you still perform. That's what makes stars stars.

Rozier has been amazing though for the most part in the playoffs. He still needs to perform away from Home. He hasn't.

If we got Kawhi, teams still wouldn’t be game planning for Rozier, Tatum, etc.

Wait I'm confused. What does this mean?  (Sorry maybe I'm just not reading into this clearly)

If the argument is that “Rozier, etc. only perform like this because teams don’t game plan to stop them” (like they do Kyrie), then the counterpoint is that teams still couldn’t game plan specifically against Rozier, etc., if Kyrie was traded for an equal or better player.

Kawhi + Rozier > Kyrie + Rozier

[bknova]

It is unbelievably baffling to me that this is a real conversation. 

[keevsnick]

I've been making that joke for months.  Terry looks good so let's just move Kyrie for Davis. 

But the reality is that Kyrie is an injured point guard heading into the final year of his contract.  It's a similar situation to Isaiah Thomas last year when he was an injured point guard heading into the final year of his contract.

Moving Thomas (injured PG heading into final year of contract) + Crowder (solid borderline starter on good contract) and the Brooklyn 1st (possibly top 5 at the time) for Kyrie (injury-prone all-star with 2 years left on his deal) would be kind of similar to offering Kyrie (injured PG heading into final year of contract) + Morris (solid borderline starter on good contract) and the Kings 1st (possibly top 5) for Kawhi (injury-prone all-star with 2 years left on his deal). 

That's not gonna happen.  Anyone who trades for Kyrie is at a risk of losing him.  We aren't going to get full value for him, because of his contract situation.  There's a small chance he bails on us after next season as well.  Hopefully not.  He's pretty amazing when healthy.

These aren't the same tho. In the IT situation the injury was expected to effect the following season. KI's isnt supposed to. IT's injury was also a type that people thought could have lasting effects on his health. KI's knee is structurally sound. KI is younger and bigger, which means less risk to begin with. We didn't KI to flip him, we targeted him because hes the type of playoff scorer you need. We aren't trading him for Kawhi.

Its also worth noting that IT had one year left on his deal, and Irving had two. Making up that difference in value mattered. Swapping two guys on one year deals (Kawhi has one non option year left) would mean we'd include less value in a hypothetical trade.

[gouki88]

It is unbelievably baffling to me that this is a real conversation.

Lots of things about this blog baffle me sometimes

[Roy H.]

It is unbelievably baffling to me that this is a real conversation.

Lots of things about this blog baffle me sometimes

What’s baffling about discussing whether a top-15ish player for a top-5ish player makes sense?

The question isn’t whether TR is better than Kyrie (obviously he’s not). It’s whether Rozier is a good enough starter to trade Kyrie for a better player.

[kraidstar]

I've been making that joke for months.  Terry looks good so let's just move Kyrie for Davis. 

But the reality is that Kyrie is an injured point guard heading into the final year of his contract.  It's a similar situation to Isaiah Thomas last year when he was an injured point guard heading into the final year of his contract.

Moving Thomas (injured PG heading into final year of contract) + Crowder (solid borderline starter on good contract) and the Brooklyn 1st (possibly top 5 at the time) for Kyrie (injury-prone all-star with 2 years left on his deal) would be kind of similar to offering Kyrie (injured PG heading into final year of contract) + Morris (solid borderline starter on good contract) and the Kings 1st (possibly top 5) for Kawhi (injury-prone all-star with 2 years left on his deal). 

That's not gonna happen.  Anyone who trades for Kyrie is at a risk of losing him.  We aren't going to get full value for him, because of his contract situation.  There's a small chance he bails on us after next season as well.  Hopefully not.  He's pretty amazing when healthy.

Where in God's name have you been?

[gouki88]

It is unbelievably baffling to me that this is a real conversation.

Lots of things about this blog baffle me sometimes

What’s baffling about discussing whether a top-15ish player for a top-5ish player makes sense?

The question isn’t whether TR is better than Kyrie (obviously he’s not). It’s whether Rozier is a good enough starter to trade Kyrie for a better player.

He has only started 24 games this season, and his regular season starts were rife with poor shooting. It is way too small a sample size to determine whether he's a good enough starter.

We also have a player in Kyrie who, from all accounts, seems locked into playing for the Celtics for a long time - we have no idea with this from Rozier. A team could definitely offer TRoz big money, which would suck if we moved Kyrie for another max guy.

Rozier needs a much, much bigger and more consistent body of work to make a guy as proven as Kyrie to become expendable

[SHAQATTACK]

Kyrie = 3XRozier

[Vermont Green]

At this point, Rozier should not be discussed in any way as an equivalent or superior talent to Kyrie.  I get the slant that we could trade Kyrie based on Rozier's play and get something back for Kyrie but I don't see us trading Kyrie for a number of reasons that have been discussed.  It is a fair premise but just too many extenuating issues (contract, injury).

I see Rozier as following along the path that we have seen before of Reggie Jackson, Eric Bledsoe, Darren Collison, and to some degree Isaiah Thomas (and others).  Good solid players that emerge into the spotlight and seem like the next big thing but then kind of plateau or even fall back some.  I think that is where Rozier is.  He may keep ascending where most don't and he certainly has established himself to be in the league as a solid starter but not as a star.

Rozier has done great, he is really establishing himself on a big stage.  Not bad for a guy that was being discussed as being traded for JJ Barea (just months ago) and lamented as an example of how bad a drafter Danny is (for years).  You go Terry.

[Roy H.]

It is unbelievably baffling to me that this is a real conversation.

Lots of things about this blog baffle me sometimes

What’s baffling about discussing whether a top-15ish player for a top-5ish player makes sense?

The question isn’t whether TR is better than Kyrie (obviously he’s not). It’s whether Rozier is a good enough starter to trade Kyrie for a better player.

He has only started 24 games this season, and his regular season starts were rife with poor shooting. It is way too small a sample size to determine whether he's a good enough starter.

We also have a player in Kyrie who, from all accounts, seems locked into playing for the Celtics for a long time - we have no idea with this from Rozier. A team could definitely offer TRoz big money, which would suck if we moved Kyrie for another max guy.

Rozier needs a much, much bigger and more consistent body of work to make a guy as proven as Kyrie to become expendable

I think Terry could play just fine alongside Kawhi, Hayward, Horford, Tatum and Brown. He’s not needed to be a 20 ppg guy.

[Eja117]

It is unbelievably baffling to me that this is a real conversation.

Well one guy is playing lights out while the other is hurt. It makes people nervous Kyrie might not ever be the same and that if we lost Terry we could lose a future all star or at least a very good player