Author Topic: Greg Maddux will not be a unanimous HOF selection (tracking at 100% till now)  (Read 18723 times)

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Online Donoghus

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Today's the day the results are announced.

I'm guessing Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas all get in.

Piazza misses by 5-6% and Biggio misses by 7-8%



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Offline pearljammer10

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I love looking at a players stats and being absolutely BLOWN away by what they've accomplished... Obviously I believe Maddux is a hall of famer and an extremely great pitcher for his time but would be leary to put him up against other all time greats....So I looked at his stats and [dang]...4 STRAIGHT Cy Young awards? 3 losing seasons out of 22 (not counting his rookie year)?. Touchee, sports reference.com for again blowing my mind.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml

Online Donoghus

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I love looking at a players stats and being absolutely BLOWN away by what they've accomplished... Obviously I believe Maddux is a hall of famer and an extremely great pitcher for his time but would be leary to put him up against other all time greats....So I looked at his stats and [dang]...4 STRAIGHT Cy Young awards? 3 losing seasons out of 22 (not counting his rookie year)?. Touchee, sports reference.com for again blowing my mind.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml

I'm not sure there has ever been a better pitcher when it comes to accuracy and control.

Best there ever was at painting the outside corner of the plate, IMO.   I'm not even sure who else you could throw in that particular arguement.


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Offline BballTim

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I love looking at a players stats and being absolutely BLOWN away by what they've accomplished... Obviously I believe Maddux is a hall of famer and an extremely great pitcher for his time but would be leary to put him up against other all time greats....So I looked at his stats and [dang]...4 STRAIGHT Cy Young awards? 3 losing seasons out of 22 (not counting his rookie year)?. Touchee, sports reference.com for again blowing my mind.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml

  Not sure if this was mentioned but he once led the league in era by over a full run, I think it was the largest level ever at the time.

Offline pearljammer10

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I love looking at a players stats and being absolutely BLOWN away by what they've accomplished... Obviously I believe Maddux is a hall of famer and an extremely great pitcher for his time but would be leary to put him up against other all time greats....So I looked at his stats and [dang]...4 STRAIGHT Cy Young awards? 3 losing seasons out of 22 (not counting his rookie year)?. Touchee, sports reference.com for again blowing my mind.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml

  Not sure if this was mentioned but he once led the league in era by over a full run, I think it was the largest level ever at the time.

His 94 and 95 seasons were absurd. 1.56 ERA followed by 1.63 having more Strikeouts than Hits both seasons and 10 complete games 3 of them being shutouts in both seasons while posting a 35 and 8 record and winning a World Series....  :o  :o  :o

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Maddux, Glavine, Thomas all elected.

Holy cow, poor Craig Biggio.  74.8%. Need 75% to get in.  That is painful!


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Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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ABSOLUTELY DISAPPOINTED. 3000 HITS not enough?

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PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
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C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Offline Moranis

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Biggio was a good 2B, but he seems as much to me to be a guy about longevity than greatness.  He played for 20 seasons, which is a long time.  He had just 7 All Star appearances, 4 Gold Gloves, just a .281 career hitter (only over .300 three times), under 300 home runs, never close to a MVP (4th once, 5th once, no other even top 10 finishes), etc.  He played a long time and was relatively healthy, but he just never struck me as a HOFer. 

Contrast him with a guy like Ichiro, who has played 13 seasons and doesn't have 3000 hits, but who was an all star 10 of those 13 seasons, was a MVP, won batting titles with a career .319 average.  Now I get that 2B is thought of differently than OF, and I suspect Ichiro gets in without issue when he is eligible, but they are similar players in many respects and Ichiro is significantly better on a season by season basis. 

Playing a long time is great, but it doesn't make you a HOFer, greatness makes you a HOFer, and I just don't see Biggio as a HOFer.  And frankly the only reason he came close he is that he is thought of as a clean player in a dirty era, which is just silly.  No way Biggio gets in based on merit.  At least that is how I see it.
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Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Biggio was a good 2B, but he seems as much to me to be a guy about longevity than greatness.  He played for 20 seasons, which is a long time.  He had just 7 All Star appearances, 4 Gold Gloves, just a .281 career hitter (only over .300 three times), under 300 home runs, never close to a MVP (4th once, 5th once, no other even top 10 finishes), etc.  He played a long time and was relatively healthy, but he just never struck me as a HOFer. 

Contrast him with a guy like Ichiro, who has played 13 seasons and doesn't have 3000 hits, but who was an all star 10 of those 13 seasons, was a MVP, won batting titles with a career .319 average.  Now I get that 2B is thought of differently than OF, and I suspect Ichiro gets in without issue when he is eligible, but they are similar players in many respects and Ichiro is significantly better on a season by season basis. 

Playing a long time is great, but it doesn't make you a HOFer, greatness makes you a HOFer, and I just don't see Biggio as a HOFer.  And frankly the only reason he came close he is that he is thought of as a clean player in a dirty era, which is just silly.  No way Biggio gets in based on merit.  At least that is how I see it.

7 time All Star
4 Gold Gloves
5 Silver Sluggers

I agree that he's not as great as Ichiro (which will be a first ballot for sure, or else), but Biggio, add his 3000+ hits had a resume deserving of a HOF.

Eventually he will make it, I guess it's just disappointing that he isnt first ballot, more disappointing about it, is how many votes he missed.
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C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Offline Big_Matt34

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Biggio was a good 2B, but he seems as much to me to be a guy about longevity than greatness.  He played for 20 seasons, which is a long time.  He had just 7 All Star appearances, 4 Gold Gloves, just a .281 career hitter (only over .300 three times), under 300 home runs, never close to a MVP (4th once, 5th once, no other even top 10 finishes), etc.  He played a long time and was relatively healthy, but he just never struck me as a HOFer. 

Contrast him with a guy like Ichiro, who has played 13 seasons and doesn't have 3000 hits, but who was an all star 10 of those 13 seasons, was a MVP, won batting titles with a career .319 average.  Now I get that 2B is thought of differently than OF, and I suspect Ichiro gets in without issue when he is eligible, but they are similar players in many respects and Ichiro is significantly better on a season by season basis. 

Playing a long time is great, but it doesn't make you a HOFer, greatness makes you a HOFer, and I just don't see Biggio as a HOFer.  And frankly the only reason he came close he is that he is thought of as a clean player in a dirty era, which is just silly.  No way Biggio gets in based on merit.  At least that is how I see it.

He was also an all star catcher, and a pretty good CF. He was a very good to great player at 2B and catcher for 15 years, that's definitely a HOF'er IMO.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 05:51:06 PM by Big_Matt34 »

Offline Moranis

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Biggio was a good 2B, but he seems as much to me to be a guy about longevity than greatness.  He played for 20 seasons, which is a long time.  He had just 7 All Star appearances, 4 Gold Gloves, just a .281 career hitter (only over .300 three times), under 300 home runs, never close to a MVP (4th once, 5th once, no other even top 10 finishes), etc.  He played a long time and was relatively healthy, but he just never struck me as a HOFer. 

Contrast him with a guy like Ichiro, who has played 13 seasons and doesn't have 3000 hits, but who was an all star 10 of those 13 seasons, was a MVP, won batting titles with a career .319 average.  Now I get that 2B is thought of differently than OF, and I suspect Ichiro gets in without issue when he is eligible, but they are similar players in many respects and Ichiro is significantly better on a season by season basis. 

Playing a long time is great, but it doesn't make you a HOFer, greatness makes you a HOFer, and I just don't see Biggio as a HOFer.  And frankly the only reason he came close he is that he is thought of as a clean player in a dirty era, which is just silly.  No way Biggio gets in based on merit.  At least that is how I see it.

7 time All Star
4 Gold Gloves
5 Silver Sluggers

I agree that he's not as great as Ichiro (which will be a first ballot for sure, or else), but Biggio, add his 3000+ hits had a resume deserving of a HOF.

Eventually he will make it, I guess it's just disappointing that he isnt first ballot, more disappointing about it, is how many votes he missed.
Gil Hodges has 8 all Star appearances, 3 gold gloves, 9 separate years with MVP votes, 370 HR's and a career average of .273, etc.  Is he a HOFer?

Harvey Kuenn has 8 All Star Appearances, including a batting title, a rookie of year, had 9 separate years with MVP votes, career average of .303, etc.  Is he a HOFer?

Bob Johnson is almost identical to Biggio except he only played 13 seasons.  He had over 2000 hits, 8 all star games, 6 seasons with MVP votes, career .296 average, 288 HR's, 96 SB's, etc.  Add 7 years to his numbers and he is basically Biggio.  Is Bob Johnson a HOFer?

How about Walker Cooper and his 8 All Star games as a catcher?  He even finished 2nd in MVP voting one year. 

How about the more modern Gary Sheffield (take the steroid era out of it)?  9 All Star games, 5 Silver Sluggers, a 2nd and two 3rd's in MVP voting, a batting title, etc.  Is Gary Sheffield a HOFer?


Biggio was a very good player, but he was never a great player.  Great players get MVP votes every year, great players hit better than .281 (without the power numbers).  Never more than 26 HR's in any season (and that year he hit .264 and just happened to be 39 that year).  He had great health and hung around a long time padding his totals, but he was never an exceptional player and never had an exceptional season.
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