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Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #90 on: March 12, 2019, 05:55:27 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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25k fan for Westbrook. In other words, exactly what I felt was appropriate: fine for the player, ban for the jackass fan.

Pretty surprised by this, I thought he should've and would've caught a game or two. The NBA's got to have info on the incident and I assume they know the fan really did cross some lines but Westbrook crossed one back by threatening violence and then crossed a bigger one by including the wife.

Ummm, I feel like Westbrook is normally a jerk off, but if you check the fan's history, and twitter, you'll see that he has a notorious record of writing racist remarks.

He also wrote a tweet, that is now deleted, saying Westbrook should go back from where he came from...

https://mobile.twitter.com/meskin_around/status/1105327414601703426

So yeah, I'm going to go ahead and take Westbrook's side, even if two wrongs don't make a right.

You pay to see the players, so respect them. They are also human beings too. That being said WB, probably needs to stop being upset or triggered every time someone says something to him.
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Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #91 on: March 12, 2019, 05:55:51 PM »

Online Roy H.

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25k fan for Westbrook. In other words, exactly what I felt was appropriate: fine for the player, ban for the jackass fan.

I don't think it's appropriate.  Kobe got $100k for a gay slur.  I thought that was appropriate to send a message that anti-gay slurs weren't appropriate.

What message is sent when a star threatens to beat up a female fan and gets a slap on the wrist?

The message it sends is “don’t come to a game to be racist jackasses to athletes with your wife and then feign ignorance and play the victim when said athlete responds.”

If you’re asking which side I’m more interested in dissuading, the racist hecklers or the athlete threatening them in response, I’m picking the former every day and twice on Sunday. As I would in [dang] near every incident involving a provocateur and the provoked.

By all means, if somebody disrespects you threaten to beat up the nearest woman. 

But, in the world of social justice I guess abusive speech toward a person of color is worse than threatening violence against women?  I get confused by the hierarchy.


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Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #92 on: March 12, 2019, 05:58:10 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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The knees stuff has been hurled at referees for ages with a homophobic under tone.

It doesn't matter if he was ever gay or not, or rumored or not.  That stuff doesn't matter with some fans and they'll just yell out homophobic stuff at a whim.

To the larger point; whether is was homophobic or racist, its nice to see the Jazz ban the guy.

That's useful context for me, TP. Fair enough, the wording still sounds dubious for me to believe he meant that though. Differences in use of language between countries can make a difference though. Maybe its an Americanism that a Brit like me wouldn't get

Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2019, 05:59:20 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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25k fan for Westbrook. In other words, exactly what I felt was appropriate: fine for the player, ban for the jackass fan.

Pretty surprised by this, I thought he should've and would've caught a game or two. The NBA's got to have info on the incident and I assume they know the fan really did cross some lines but Westbrook crossed one back by threatening violence and then crossed a bigger one by including the wife.

Ummm, I feel like Westbrook is normally a jerk off, but if you check the fan's history, and twitter, you'll see that he has a notorious record of writing racist remarks.

He also wrote a tweet, that is now deleted, saying Westbrook should go back from where he came from...

https://mobile.twitter.com/meskin_around/status/1105327414601703426

So yeah, I'm going to go ahead and take Westbrook's side, even if two wrongs don't make a right.

You pay to see the players, so respect them. They are also human beings too. That being said WB, probably needs to stop being upset or triggered every time someone says something to him.

Oh word?

It's fine to say one jerk's the bigger jerk but that doesn't unjerk the lesser jerk. I agree players need to be respected and the fan should've been banned to some degree, but that doesn't make what Westbrook did right. If he'd just said "shut the eff up" or "eff off" or whatever else I don't think even a fine would be needed.

I'm just surprised the league doesn't take threats of violence to fans more seriously. But then I remember Malice in the Palace was almost 15 years ago and that I am an old, old man and it makes a little more sense.

Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #94 on: March 12, 2019, 06:00:47 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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25k fan for Westbrook. In other words, exactly what I felt was appropriate: fine for the player, ban for the jackass fan.

I don't think it's appropriate.  Kobe got $100k for a gay slur.  I thought that was appropriate to send a message that anti-gay slurs weren't appropriate.

What message is sent when a star threatens to beat up a female fan and gets a slap on the wrist?

The message it sends is “don’t come to a game to be racist jackasses to athletes with your wife and then feign ignorance and play the victim when said athlete responds.”

If you’re asking which side I’m more interested in dissuading, the racist hecklers or the athlete threatening them in response, I’m picking the former every day and twice on Sunday. As I would in [dang] near every incident involving a provocateur and the provoked.

By all means, if somebody disrespects you threaten to beat up the nearest woman. 

But, in the world of social justice I guess abusive speech toward a person of color is worse than threatening violence against women?  I get confused by the hierarchy.

If a woman wants to make racist remarks, then I'm totally fine with her taking any sort of *verbal* onslaught that comes her way. After all, "words are just words," right? Empty threats don't mean much to me and there was a 0% chance Westbrook was actually going to carry out those threats.

And in my world of "social justice," if a woman wants to fire abusive speech at a person of color, I'm fine with that person of color returning abusive speech to her as long as both are willing to accept the consequences of their actions. In this case, Westbrook gets a fine and the guys who provoked the situation are banned. Fine with me.

Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #95 on: March 12, 2019, 06:03:28 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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25k fan for Westbrook. In other words, exactly what I felt was appropriate: fine for the player, ban for the jackass fan.

I don't think it's appropriate.  Kobe got $100k for a gay slur.  I thought that was appropriate to send a message that anti-gay slurs weren't appropriate.

What message is sent when a star threatens to beat up a female fan and gets a slap on the wrist?

The message it sends is “don’t come to a game to be racist jackasses to athletes with your wife and then feign ignorance and play the victim when said athlete responds.”

If you’re asking which side I’m more interested in dissuading, the racist hecklers or the athlete threatening them in response, I’m picking the former every day and twice on Sunday. As I would in [dang] near every incident involving a provocateur and the provoked.

By all means, if somebody disrespects you threaten to beat up the nearest woman. 

But, in the world of social justice I guess abusive speech toward a person of color is worse than threatening violence against women?  I get confused by the hierarchy.

So why does the wife of the racist fan get a pass in this scenario?

25k fan for Westbrook. In other words, exactly what I felt was appropriate: fine for the player, ban for the jackass fan.

I don't think it's appropriate.  Kobe got $100k for a gay slur.  I thought that was appropriate to send a message that anti-gay slurs weren't appropriate.

What message is sent when a star threatens to beat up a female fan and gets a slap on the wrist?

The message it sends is “don’t come to a game to be racist jackasses to athletes with your wife and then feign ignorance and play the victim when said athlete responds.”

If you’re asking which side I’m more interested in dissuading, the racist hecklers or the athlete threatening them in response, I’m picking the former every day and twice on Sunday. As I would in [dang] near every incident involving a provocateur and the provoked.

By all means, if somebody disrespects you threaten to beat up the nearest woman. 

But, in the world of social justice I guess abusive speech toward a person of color is worse than threatening violence against women?  I get confused by the hierarchy.

If a woman wants to make racist remarks, then I'm totally fine with her taking any sort of *verbal* onslaught that comes her way. After all, "words are just words," right? Empty threats don't mean much to me and there was a 0% chance Westbrook was actually going to carry out those threats.

And in my world of "social justice," if a woman wants to fire abusive speech at a person of color, I'm fine with that person of color returning abusive speech to her as long as both are willing to accept the consequences of their actions. In this case, Westbrook gets a fine and the guys who provoked the situation are banned. Fine with me.

Agreed.

I've seen this video where a woman was punching this guy until he started bleeding in the mouth. After repeatedly defending himself and not doing anything, the woman kept going on and on until the guy had enough and knocked her out.

All I'm saying is, if you're going to say or do something, don't be surprised when someone retaliates. Woman or man.
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Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

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Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #96 on: March 12, 2019, 06:04:11 PM »

Online Roy H.

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25k fan for Westbrook. In other words, exactly what I felt was appropriate: fine for the player, ban for the jackass fan.

I don't think it's appropriate.  Kobe got $100k for a gay slur.  I thought that was appropriate to send a message that anti-gay slurs weren't appropriate.

What message is sent when a star threatens to beat up a female fan and gets a slap on the wrist?

The message it sends is “don’t come to a game to be racist jackasses to athletes with your wife and then feign ignorance and play the victim when said athlete responds.”

If you’re asking which side I’m more interested in dissuading, the racist hecklers or the athlete threatening them in response, I’m picking the former every day and twice on Sunday. As I would in [dang] near every incident involving a provocateur and the provoked.

By all means, if somebody disrespects you threaten to beat up the nearest woman. 

But, in the world of social justice I guess abusive speech toward a person of color is worse than threatening violence against women?  I get confused by the hierarchy.

If a woman wants to make racist remarks, then I'm totally fine with her taking any sort of *verbal* onslaught that comes her way. After all, "words are just words," right? Empty threats don't mean much to me and there was a 0% chance Westbrook was actually going to carry out those threats.

And in my world of "social justice," if a woman wants to fire abusive speech at a person of color, I'm fine with that person of color returning abusive speech to her as long as both are willing to accept the consequences of their actions. In this case, Westbrook gets a fine and the guys who provoked the situation are banned. Fine with me.

Prove she did.  I didn’t see racist stuff on her twitter feed, or the Jazz making any findings against her at all.

Taking a casual stand on the macho, abusive language helps create the culture in which women are treated as objects to be misused.  For every Jabari Bird there’s a Russell Westbrook behind him.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 06:10:41 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #97 on: March 12, 2019, 06:08:10 PM »

Offline Silky

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Until any sort of proof surfaces, should not the fans ve treated as innocent?

I mean I guess you have the word of Patterson, who could be argued, is going to stand with his teammate no matter what.

Apparently other in the fans' vicinity claim that he did not hurl any sort of racist remark.

Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #98 on: March 12, 2019, 06:09:55 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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25k fan for Westbrook. In other words, exactly what I felt was appropriate: fine for the player, ban for the jackass fan.

I don't think it's appropriate.  Kobe got $100k for a gay slur.  I thought that was appropriate to send a message that anti-gay slurs weren't appropriate.

What message is sent when a star threatens to beat up a female fan and gets a slap on the wrist?

The message it sends is “don’t come to a game to be racist jackasses to athletes with your wife and then feign ignorance and play the victim when said athlete responds.”

If you’re asking which side I’m more interested in dissuading, the racist hecklers or the athlete threatening them in response, I’m picking the former every day and twice on Sunday. As I would in [dang] near every incident involving a provocateur and the provoked.

By all means, if somebody disrespects you threaten to beat up the nearest woman. 

But, in the world of social justice I guess abusive speech toward a person of color is worse than threatening violence against women?  I get confused by the hierarchy.

If a woman wants to make racist remarks, then I'm totally fine with her taking any sort of *verbal* onslaught that comes her way. After all, "words are just words," right? Empty threats don't mean much to me and there was a 0% chance Westbrook was actually going to carry out those threats.

And in my world of "social justice," if a woman wants to fire abusive speech at a person of color, I'm fine with that person of color returning abusive speech to her as long as both are willing to accept the consequences of their actions. In this case, Westbrook gets a fine and the guys who provoked the situation are banned. Fine with me.

Prove she did.  I didn’t see racist stuff on her twitter feed, or the Jazz making any findings against her at all.

Quote
Westbrook had a sharply different interpretation of the events, telling reporters that Keisel’s female companion had also provoked him before the start of the video clip.

“As for beating up his wife, I have never put my hand on a woman,” he said. “I never will. I’ve never been in any domestic violence before. Once he said the comment, his wife repeated it — the same thing — to me as well. That’s how that started. The start of the video is way more important and way more disrespectful than what you guys heard [me say].”

Westbrook claims she did say some profane and racist things.

Westbrook is a hot head, but he doesn't go out of his way to make threats like that without some reason.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

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Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #99 on: March 12, 2019, 06:11:09 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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25k fan for Westbrook. In other words, exactly what I felt was appropriate: fine for the player, ban for the jackass fan.

I don't think it's appropriate.  Kobe got $100k for a gay slur.  I thought that was appropriate to send a message that anti-gay slurs weren't appropriate.

What message is sent when a star threatens to beat up a female fan and gets a slap on the wrist?

The message it sends is “don’t come to a game to be racist jackasses to athletes with your wife and then feign ignorance and play the victim when said athlete responds.”

If you’re asking which side I’m more interested in dissuading, the racist hecklers or the athlete threatening them in response, I’m picking the former every day and twice on Sunday. As I would in [dang] near every incident involving a provocateur and the provoked.

By all means, if somebody disrespects you threaten to beat up the nearest woman. 

But, in the world of social justice I guess abusive speech toward a person of color is worse than threatening violence against women?  I get confused by the hierarchy.

If a woman wants to make racist remarks, then I'm totally fine with her taking any sort of *verbal* onslaught that comes her way. After all, "words are just words," right? Empty threats don't mean much to me and there was a 0% chance Westbrook was actually going to carry out those threats.

And in my world of "social justice," if a woman wants to fire abusive speech at a person of color, I'm fine with that person of color returning abusive speech to her as long as both are willing to accept the consequences of their actions. In this case, Westbrook gets a fine and the guys who provoked the situation are banned. Fine with me.

Prove she did.  I didn’t see racist stuff on her twitter feed, or the Jazz making any findings against her at all.

Can't prove it any more than I can prove that the guy himself was or wasn't being racist - I wasn't there and there's no video. I'm going off Westbrook's claims of the guy being the ringleader and the wife repeating the comment; I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that she joined in. I highly doubt he's getting away with just a $25,000 fine if he attacked the wife unprovoked - that's the same fine KD received earlier this season simply for telling a fan to "shut the **** up."

Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #100 on: March 12, 2019, 06:12:43 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Until any sort of proof surfaces, should not the fans ve treated as innocent?

I mean I guess you have the word of Patterson, who could be argued, is going to stand with his teammate no matter what.

Apparently other in the fans' vicinity claim that he did not hurl any sort of racist remark.

The Jazz's statement says they relied on information from nearby fans so I'm guessing that was not a unanimous opinion.


EDIT: "eyewitness accounts" which could be broader than that.

Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #101 on: March 12, 2019, 06:14:36 PM »

Online Roy H.

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25k fan for Westbrook. In other words, exactly what I felt was appropriate: fine for the player, ban for the jackass fan.

I don't think it's appropriate.  Kobe got $100k for a gay slur.  I thought that was appropriate to send a message that anti-gay slurs weren't appropriate.

What message is sent when a star threatens to beat up a female fan and gets a slap on the wrist?

The message it sends is “don’t come to a game to be racist jackasses to athletes with your wife and then feign ignorance and play the victim when said athlete responds.”

If you’re asking which side I’m more interested in dissuading, the racist hecklers or the athlete threatening them in response, I’m picking the former every day and twice on Sunday. As I would in [dang] near every incident involving a provocateur and the provoked.

By all means, if somebody disrespects you threaten to beat up the nearest woman. 

But, in the world of social justice I guess abusive speech toward a person of color is worse than threatening violence against women?  I get confused by the hierarchy.

If a woman wants to make racist remarks, then I'm totally fine with her taking any sort of *verbal* onslaught that comes her way. After all, "words are just words," right? Empty threats don't mean much to me and there was a 0% chance Westbrook was actually going to carry out those threats.

And in my world of "social justice," if a woman wants to fire abusive speech at a person of color, I'm fine with that person of color returning abusive speech to her as long as both are willing to accept the consequences of their actions. In this case, Westbrook gets a fine and the guys who provoked the situation are banned. Fine with me.

Prove she did.  I didn’t see racist stuff on her twitter feed, or the Jazz making any findings against her at all.

Quote
Westbrook had a sharply different interpretation of the events, telling reporters that Keisel’s female companion had also provoked him before the start of the video clip.

“As for beating up his wife, I have never put my hand on a woman,” he said. “I never will. I’ve never been in any domestic violence before. Once he said the comment, his wife repeated it — the same thing — to me as well. That’s how that started. The start of the video is way more important and way more disrespectful than what you guys heard [me say].”

Westbrook claims she did say some profane and racist things.

Westbrook is a hot head, but he doesn't go out of his way to make threats like that without some reason.

He’s attempted to slap cameras out of the hands of fans and berated a father and his young child? Westbrook is a hothead, and he’s escalating.

And, I don’t trust Westbrook any more than the trash talker. I do think that it’s relevant that the Jazz only suspended the one meathead.


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Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #102 on: March 12, 2019, 06:14:51 PM »

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Until any sort of proof surfaces, should not the fans ve treated as innocent?

I mean I guess you have the word of Patterson, who could be argued, is going to stand with his teammate no matter what.

Apparently other in the fans' vicinity claim that he did not hurl any sort of racist remark.

Except for the whole statement the Jazz released referencing an investigation including video review & eyewitness accounts. 

There was something there.  They're not just banning the guy on a whim.


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Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #103 on: March 12, 2019, 06:19:41 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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He’s attempted to slap cameras out of the hands of fans and berated a father and his young child?

"berated"? Are you serious? That's a ludicrously unfair and questionable way to frame what happened.

Westbrook was tapped on the back by a child, turned around, saw it was a kid, and had a very calm exchange with the father explaining that the kid shouldn't do that. How did Westbrook cap off his "berating"? By dapping the kid up. Wildly unhinged behavior, indeed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HoEppmc92A

Re: Westbrook threatens female fan and her husband
« Reply #104 on: March 12, 2019, 06:23:05 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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Until any sort of proof surfaces, should not the fans ve treated as innocent?

I mean I guess you have the word of Patterson, who could be argued, is going to stand with his teammate no matter what.

Apparently other in the fans' vicinity claim that he did not hurl any sort of racist remark.

Except for the whole statement the Jazz released referencing an investigation including video review & eyewitness accounts. 

There was something there.  They're not just banning the guy on a whim.

More to this point:

Quote from: Royce Young
Via @espn_macmahon: “Sources told ESPN that the Jazz gathered intelligence Monday that also verified Westbrook's version.”