Where we lost this game

[twinbree]

Yeah Steph on Hermann was bizarre considering our guards were already giving up inches to their backcourt. I don't know why they'd draft 2 wings and then with TA missing games from 3 different injuries not be able to give Walker a few minutes at SF.

Maybe they just aren't as good as everyone seems to think they are. Doc sees them in games, warmups, and practices. He has watched them in game time. If he thought that they could do the job better then he would be playing them.

Its not that I think Walker is that great but he cannot be that bad to not get any playing time when the two players ahead of him are both injured and the alternative is playing Pierce 48 minutes and having a guard defending a 3.

[vinnie]

One thing it seems we all agree on. It does not make any sense to have guys who are 6-1 and 6-2 guarding guys who are 6-8 and 6-9! Doc slept through this game.

[zubs]

Rondo again is not pushing the ball after a rebound and not attacking the rim...also when we are in half court offense, he stands around with the ball until the shot clock is winding down..how many times did we get off a garbage shot before a 24 second violation.......he pushes the ball we win

[EJPLAYA]

Yeah Steph on Hermann was bizarre considering our guards were already giving up inches to their backcourt. I don't know why they'd draft 2 wings and then with TA missing games from 3 different injuries not be able to give Walker a few minutes at SF.

Maybe they just aren't as good as everyone seems to think they are. Doc sees them in games, warmups, and practices. He has watched them in game time. If he thought that they could do the job better then he would be playing them.

Its not that I think Walker is that great but he cannot be that bad to not get any playing time when the two players ahead of him are both injured and the alternative is playing Pierce 48 minutes and having a guard defending a 3.

I understand what you are saying, but first of all this Hermann guy is a scrub or at best a career backup. Sticking a faster guard on him to frustrate him with quickness shouldn't have been that tough of an assignment. Who knew he was going to have a career "stretch" there for a bit. I guess I would argue that this is exactly what Doc was thinking. He would rather play PP too long versus risking putting Walker in. I have high hopes for Walker, but he really only had one game where he played pretty good, and a couple highlight dunks. He hasn't impressed yet.

[footey]

Detroit played exceptionally well today. Their defense was excellent especially in the 4th quarter. Sometimes you just get outplayed, that is what happened today. I think we may have lost even with KG, because Baby would not have played nearly as many minutes, and he was just outstanding.

[RAcker]

Bottom line for me in most of our losses (with or without KG) is this:  Too many missed FT, turnovers, and missed defensive assignments which normally makes for too many fouls which normally means putting the opponent in the penalty way too early.  

Guys like Ray and Rondo are going to occasionally have an off game, however, if you sure up these things that I just mentioned, we win 9 of 10 times.  Paul and BBD carried the offense for the most part and Perk was solid with his back to the basket.  It's the same old problems that come back to bite us and lose us games.

1) Missed FT's
2) Excessive TO's
3) Missed Defensive Assignments and/or Excessive Fouling (putting the opponent in the penalty early)

[Rondo_is_better]

Rondo again is not pushing the ball after a rebound and not attacking the rim...also when we are in half court offense, he stands around with the ball until the shot clock is winding down..how many times did we get off a garbage shot before a 24 second violation.......he pushes the ball we win

Rondo couldn't attack the rim today or in the Pacers game. The other teams made a conscious effort to take that away. Did you see the paint? It was clogged BIG TIME every time Rondo had the ball in transition.

[spazmonkey]

One thing not yet mentioned in this thread...2 for 14 from 3-point land killed us...

[celticinorlando]

when ray isn't hitting without KG out there it is tough sledding

[billysan]

Another thing no one has mentioned, Mikki Moore being late rotating to help Marbury with the Herrmann jumpshot problem. This happened at least twice. Some here may think Herrmann is a scrub, but he can shoot the lights out if he is open, as we just found out the hard way.

As someone pointed out earlier, this will be worse against the Cavaliers and Wally. Call him or scrub or whatever, he will shoot over Marbury too. One thing we dont need is to be humiliated by Wally this friday nite.

Really simple solution here, play Walker or Giddens when one of these type guys is in the game or they will hurt us. It did us no good at all and didnt help Marbury learn our system any faster to have him cover a 6'9" forward. Marbury needs to work on his ball handling and court vision more anyway while he is getting back into playing shape. He was stripped twice by Will Bynum and by Rodney Stuckey at least once while bringing the ball up court.

[crownsy]

Yeah Steph on Hermann was bizarre considering our guards were already giving up inches to their backcourt. I don't know why they'd draft 2 wings and then with TA missing games from 3 different injuries not be able to give Walker a few minutes at SF.

Maybe they just aren't as good as everyone seems to think they are. Doc sees them in games, warmups, and practices. He has watched them in game time. If he thought that they could do the job better then he would be playing them.

Its not that I think Walker is that great but he cannot be that bad to not get any playing time when the two players ahead of him are both injured and the alternative is playing Pierce 48 minutes and having a guard defending a 3.

I understand what you are saying, but first of all this Hermann guy is a scrub or at best a career backup. Sticking a faster guard on him to frustrate him with quickness shouldn't have been that tough of an assignment. Who knew he was going to have a career "stretch" there for a bit. I guess I would argue that this is exactly what Doc was thinking. He would rather play PP too long versus risking putting Walker in. I have high hopes for Walker, but he really only had one game where he played pretty good, and a couple highlight dunks. He hasn't impressed yet.

EJ, how on earth can you say "it was a good idea to stick a faster gaurd on herman to frustrate him" that's a terrible idea on a forward who's one NBA skill is spot and face up shooting. If he was a guy who drives but cant face up, you'd be correct, but thats not herman's game. that was a compeltly asinine defensive assignment, and the pistons went to it every time because it was a mismatch.

Herman is a spot/face up shooter, thats his one and only NBA level skill . It is extremely easy, as he showed, to spot up over a guy 7 inches shorter than you by backing him down when you outweigh him by 75 pounds.

he looked like an allstar today because we MADE him look like an allstar. We gave him the one matchup he's good against, a small quick gaurd he could post, and he abused it. normaly he has to get that in transition. we were nice enough to set it up for them in the half court.

It was a terrible coaching decision to put a PG on him, and the fact that he required an automatic double led to 5 easy buckets out of passing.

[celticinorlando]

terrible decision to put marbury on a spot up shooter that had half a foot on marbury...those 11 points could have been dealt with if doc uses walker or some length on him...i too am worried about the cavs and their 3 point shooting friday....they have 4 guys that can knock them down....

[EJPLAYA]

Yeah Steph on Hermann was bizarre considering our guards were already giving up inches to their backcourt. I don't know why they'd draft 2 wings and then with TA missing games from 3 different injuries not be able to give Walker a few minutes at SF.

Maybe they just aren't as good as everyone seems to think they are. Doc sees them in games, warmups, and practices. He has watched them in game time. If he thought that they could do the job better then he would be playing them.

Its not that I think Walker is that great but he cannot be that bad to not get any playing time when the two players ahead of him are both injured and the alternative is playing Pierce 48 minutes and having a guard defending a 3.

I understand what you are saying, but first of all this Hermann guy is a scrub or at best a career backup. Sticking a faster guard on him to frustrate him with quickness shouldn't have been that tough of an assignment. Who knew he was going to have a career "stretch" there for a bit. I guess I would argue that this is exactly what Doc was thinking. He would rather play PP too long versus risking putting Walker in. I have high hopes for Walker, but he really only had one game where he played pretty good, and a couple highlight dunks. He hasn't impressed yet.

EJ, how on earth can you say "it was a good idea to stick a faster gaurd on herman to frustrate him" that's a terrible idea on a forward who's one NBA skill is spot and face up shooting. If he was a guy who drives but cant face up, you'd be correct, but thats not herman's game. that was a compeltly asinine defensive assignment, and the pistons went to it every time because it was a mismatch.

Herman is a spot/face up shooter, thats his one and only NBA level skill . It is extremely easy, as he showed, to spot up over a guy 7 inches shorter than you by backing him down when you outweigh him by 75 pounds.

he looked like an allstar today because we MADE him look like an allstar. We gave him the one matchup he's good against, a small quick gaurd he could post, and he abused it. normaly he has to get that in transition. we were nice enough to set it up for them in the half court.

It was a terrible coaching decision to put a PG on him, and the fact that he required an automatic double led to 5 easy buckets out of passing.

The guy made one three pointer, and 2 of the other shots were turn arounds fading away. I don't care who was on him, with him being hot like that he would have scored. We leave guys wide open in the corner for threes all the time because we are double teaming. If a guy is going to hit turn arounds then so be it. I would sure rather him be the one open to beat us than Sheed or Rip etc... These are NBA players. Of course they could get hot. The problem was we didn't take advantage of the mismatch on the other end.

[crownsy]

Yeah Steph on Hermann was bizarre considering our guards were already giving up inches to their backcourt. I don't know why they'd draft 2 wings and then with TA missing games from 3 different injuries not be able to give Walker a few minutes at SF.

Maybe they just aren't as good as everyone seems to think they are. Doc sees them in games, warmups, and practices. He has watched them in game time. If he thought that they could do the job better then he would be playing them.

Its not that I think Walker is that great but he cannot be that bad to not get any playing time when the two players ahead of him are both injured and the alternative is playing Pierce 48 minutes and having a guard defending a 3.

I understand what you are saying, but first of all this Hermann guy is a scrub or at best a career backup. Sticking a faster guard on him to frustrate him with quickness shouldn't have been that tough of an assignment. Who knew he was going to have a career "stretch" there for a bit. I guess I would argue that this is exactly what Doc was thinking. He would rather play PP too long versus risking putting Walker in. I have high hopes for Walker, but he really only had one game where he played pretty good, and a couple highlight dunks. He hasn't impressed yet.

EJ, how on earth can you say "it was a good idea to stick a faster gaurd on herman to frustrate him" that's a terrible idea on a forward who's one NBA skill is spot and face up shooting. If he was a guy who drives but cant face up, you'd be correct, but thats not herman's game. that was a compeltly asinine defensive assignment, and the pistons went to it every time because it was a mismatch.

Herman is a spot/face up shooter, thats his one and only NBA level skill . It is extremely easy, as he showed, to spot up over a guy 7 inches shorter than you by backing him down when you outweigh him by 75 pounds.

he looked like an allstar today because we MADE him look like an allstar. We gave him the one matchup he's good against, a small quick gaurd he could post, and he abused it. normaly he has to get that in transition. we were nice enough to set it up for them in the half court.

It was a terrible coaching decision to put a PG on him, and the fact that he required an automatic double led to 5 easy buckets out of passing.

The guy made one three pointer, and 2 of the other shots were turn arounds fading away. I don't care who was on him, with him being hot like that he would have scored. We leave guys wide open in the corner for threes all the time because we are double teaming. If a guy is going to hit turn arounds then so be it. I would sure rather him be the one open to beat us than Sheed or Rip etc... These are NBA players. Of course they could get hot. The problem was we didn't take advantage of the mismatch on the other end.

so you want to excuse doc for putting aPG on herman because you think he could have made those shots over anyone?

thats great logic, why didn't he put eddie house on him if it didn't matter?

 I like doc, but that was a terrible coaching decision, and to say otherwise is pandering. and thats why the pistons went at that matchup for 4 straight minutes, and they got more than hermans points out of it BTW, they got 2 easy threes and 2 easy trips to the rim out of the double team by moore necessitated by a foward posting up a point gaurd.


you might remember we run a  play to force what rivers gave the pistons for free, for two separate 4 minute sessions , and while paul is 100 times the player herman is, and thus its much more successful, the principle remains the same.

a 6'2 guy who weighs 180 pounds is not covering a forward who is 6'9 and 225+ in the post without a double, and thus an open shooter. not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

It was a bad coaching decision, it doesn't make him a bad coach.