Author Topic: Which center should we sign?  (Read 40322 times)

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Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #120 on: July 06, 2022, 10:52:24 AM »

Offline boscel33

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is Frank Kaminsky still around?

He's a FA, was waived by the Suns in April.  Looks like he has had some injury issues the past three years or so.
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Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #121 on: July 06, 2022, 10:59:49 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #122 on: July 06, 2022, 11:09:50 AM »

Offline boscel33

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Ayton is still out there. 

For all of the cap experts, can we sign him to a two year deal, get him back to free agency sooner, then try to sign him using our rights? I'm not talking a wink wink either, if he moves on, so be it, I'm talking a legit 2-year deal to become a free agent at the end of the 2 years. 
"There's sharks and minnows in this world. If you don't know which you are, you ain't a shark."

Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #123 on: July 06, 2022, 11:12:25 AM »

Online Celtics2021

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Ayton is still out there. 

For all of the cap experts, can we sign him to a two year deal, get him back to free agency sooner, then try to sign him using our rights? I'm not talking a wink wink either, if he moves on, so be it, I'm talking a legit 2-year deal to become a free agent at the end of the 2 years.

Only for the minimum, which would obviously be matched by Phoenix in an instant, so no.

In order to sign him via a sign-and-trade, we’d have to send out roughly $17 million more than we paid him, AND that deal would need to be for at least three years, so that doesn’t meet your 2 year requirement.

Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #124 on: July 06, 2022, 11:29:04 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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Keith Smith's opinion on our options:  https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/7/6/23196646/boston-celtics-dwindling-backup-center-options

So many options.  He also implied that as teams cut down their rosters, there will be even more potential candidates to either trade for or sign after release.

Definitely seems like the Celtics will be in no rush.  I think once we finalize Kornet and Hauser, we will be at 12 roster spots (assuming Gallinari and Brogdon are in).  Davison and Brodric Thomas are in the mix potentially as is Juhann Begarin for final spots or 2-ways.  And we don't even have to necessarily resolve this by the start of the season.

Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #125 on: July 06, 2022, 11:30:40 AM »

Offline liam

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is Frank Kaminsky still around?

He's a FA, was waived by the Suns in April.  Looks like he has had some injury issues the past three years or so.

thx.

Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #126 on: July 06, 2022, 11:34:42 AM »

Offline liam

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Keith Smith's opinion on our options:  https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/7/6/23196646/boston-celtics-dwindling-backup-center-options

So many options.  He also implied that as teams cut down their rosters, there will be even more potential candidates to either trade for or sign after release.

Definitely seems like the Celtics will be in no rush.  I think once we finalize Kornet and Hauser, we will be at 12 roster spots (assuming Gallinari and Brogdon are in).  Davison and Brodric Thomas are in the mix potentially as is Juhann Begarin for final spots or 2-ways.  And we don't even have to necessarily resolve this by the start of the season.

I'd take Willy Hernangomez, Kelly Olynyk, Plumlee, Reid, Cousins, Harry Giles, Anzejs Pasecniks...

there are options...

Mike Muscala? I would've been overjoyed to grab Robin Lopez... I guess he signed...


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« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 11:43:03 AM by liam »

Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #127 on: July 06, 2022, 11:49:31 AM »

Online Celtics2021

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Keith Smith's opinion on our options:  https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/7/6/23196646/boston-celtics-dwindling-backup-center-options

I really don’t know why Smith has bunch of guys on that list with salaries in the $7.5 to $12.5 million range.  We’re not going to pay $30-40 million in luxury tax for a #3 center/#5 big.

Anyway, if the Celtics are willing to go a couple million over the minimum for a guy, they should target Jeff Green, who’s been reasonably effective as a small-ball 5 in recent years.  Denver is in the luxury tax so he might be cheaply obtainable.

Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #128 on: July 06, 2022, 12:00:37 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Keith Smith's opinion on our options:  https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/7/6/23196646/boston-celtics-dwindling-backup-center-options

I really don’t know why Smith has bunch of guys on that list with salaries in the $7.5 to $12.5 million range.  We’re not going to pay $30-40 million in luxury tax for a #3 center/#5 big.

Anyway, if the Celtics are willing to go a couple million over the minimum for a guy, they should target Jeff Green, who’s been reasonably effective as a small-ball 5 in recent years.  Denver is in the luxury tax so he might be cheaply obtainable.

Yeah, Jeff Green has been one of my targets for the TPE all along.  If Pagliuca wants to compete with his billionaire friends in Golden State, the ideal way to use the $17 million TPE would be on Josh Richardson and Jeff Green.

Timelord / Green / Kornet
Horford / Williams / Gallo / Hauser
Tatum / Richardson / (Williams)
Brown / White
Smart / Brogdon / Pritchard

With the 15th slot open.  That team has no holes, unless you really want to quibble about having backup defensive big with size.


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Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #129 on: July 06, 2022, 12:23:52 PM »

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My only hope is that we don’t roll with Kornet. We can call him a third center, but we all expect we’ll need to play whoever is in that spot a fair amount - possibly during the playoffs. Kornet’s lack of strength and bulk can be glaring, and probably make him unplayable against many bigs.

I’d like the best big ownership is willing to pay for, but would settle for someone like Cody Zeller; he knows where to be on the floor, and while nobody’s calling him vintage Dwight Howard he’s not going to get shoved around.

Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #130 on: July 06, 2022, 12:34:45 PM »

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Maybe I was too harsh on LMA earlier.

Two things bothered me about BKN signing LMA last year which influence my views on him:

(1) They signed the three old men - LMA, Blake Griffin and Paul Millsap. These three old men combined to cause huge problems in terms of quickness deficits on defense that hampered BKN all season long. This was the wrong strategy.

They showed in the playoffs the previous year (2021) how much they benefited from having a young big with quick legs (Claxton) even though he had no real skills other than physical ones (size and mobility). They showed that they only really needed some active defenders and outside shooters to free up their Big Three of Harden, Durant, and Kyrie; and they would've been a runaway team in the East.

Now not only are they going for one slow footed big man who will hurt their team but THREE. Three slow footed bigs! Three guys who not only do not contribute on defense but actively make you worse! You had plenty of offense. You needed defense! And these guys can't move their feet! They are too bloody slow.

Collectively, having three of them was a massive problem for BKN that hurt them all year long.

(2) BKN had loads of offense with Harden, Durant and Kyrie. They desperately needed guys who could play defense & make simple finishes (dunks inside or 3s outside). They did not need creators (LMA) who have one-on-one skills. They did not need slow footed bigs who cannot play defense. Instead they targeted the three old men none of whom can play defense. LMA and Blake's main value was their individual offense which BKN did not need. They had plenty of offense. They needed DEFENSE.



So yeah, maybe I was being too harsh on LMA earlier for reasons not only specific to his own game but also to the collective problems of the three old men and the team construction of BKN.

His flaws would be less painful on a team with quick mobile athletic defenders around him like BOS have. I still don't think LMA can play a lick of team defense anymore (he can't move well enough) but he is still big at 6-11 260lbs.

I like Kaminsky but it is not like he is a quality defender either. He is better on team D than Aldridge out on the floor because Kaminsky has younger legs that move better. But Aldridge is better in the post against physical bigs like Embiid which is something we need more. After all, if we want better perimeter D from the center spot we can just go small with Gallinari at center instead of using a lesser quality option like Kaminsky. So Aldridge provides more of a valued skill-set / contrast to what we have.

I do not like LMA as a rotation player. He was a liability for BKN last year ... but as a 3rd stringer? As someone who is only used when the team is desperate?

Like Gallinari, LMA would be an offensive orientated center who offers below average / minor defensive contributions but they would be two different types of offensive centers. Gallinari a smaller more mobile more perimeter orientated offensive player & defender. LMA a bigger bodied defender who can defend better in the paint, give an inside scoring option and some jump-shooting.



I am also thinking of David Lee in the Finals when GSW won their first title. They had a two-pronged attack at center with Bogut and Ezeli who were both defensive minded centers with minimal offensive skills at that point (Bogut could pass but not score anymore).

GSW needed something different to open up CLE's defense and they were able to go with David Lee as an offensive center. Lee's skills and solid size helped open up GSW's offense and gave them a lift that helped give them that little booster towards winning their first title.

LMA could maybe provide a similar option as a deep bench player for BOS.

Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #131 on: July 06, 2022, 12:51:21 PM »

Offline boscel33

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Ayton is still out there. 

For all of the cap experts, can we sign him to a two year deal, get him back to free agency sooner, then try to sign him using our rights? I'm not talking a wink wink either, if he moves on, so be it, I'm talking a legit 2-year deal to become a free agent at the end of the 2 years.

Only for the minimum, which would obviously be matched by Phoenix in an instant, so no.

In order to sign him via a sign-and-trade, we’d have to send out roughly $17 million more than we paid him, AND that deal would need to be for at least three years, so that doesn’t meet your 2 year requirement.

Thanks.  Really can't believe he's still a FA!
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Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #132 on: July 06, 2022, 01:38:46 PM »

Online Celtics2021

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Ayton is still out there. 

For all of the cap experts, can we sign him to a two year deal, get him back to free agency sooner, then try to sign him using our rights? I'm not talking a wink wink either, if he moves on, so be it, I'm talking a legit 2-year deal to become a free agent at the end of the 2 years.

Only for the minimum, which would obviously be matched by Phoenix in an instant, so no.

In order to sign him via a sign-and-trade, we’d have to send out roughly $17 million more than we paid him, AND that deal would need to be for at least three years, so that doesn’t meet your 2 year requirement.

Thanks.  Really can't believe he's still a FA!

Yeah, he’s really interesting.  He wants out of Phoenix, so he’s going to need to find a sign-and-trade.  Otherwise he might end up accepting the qualifying offer of $16.4 million and trying again next year.

Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #133 on: July 06, 2022, 01:51:31 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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Ayton is still out there. 

For all of the cap experts, can we sign him to a two year deal, get him back to free agency sooner, then try to sign him using our rights? I'm not talking a wink wink either, if he moves on, so be it, I'm talking a legit 2-year deal to become a free agent at the end of the 2 years.

Only for the minimum, which would obviously be matched by Phoenix in an instant, so no.

In order to sign him via a sign-and-trade, we’d have to send out roughly $17 million more than we paid him, AND that deal would need to be for at least three years, so that doesn’t meet your 2 year requirement.

Thanks.  Really can't believe he's still a FA!

Yeah, he’s really interesting.  He wants out of Phoenix, so he’s going to need to find a sign-and-trade.  Otherwise he might end up accepting the qualifying offer of $16.4 million and trying again next year.

Very few teams have cap space.  Same problem Kyrie faced.  Sign and trades work only for team that are under the tax apron.  There are not all that many teams that can even meet that (the Celtics do not for example).  The only players that are getting big contracts are the ones going back to their current teams via Bird rights or similar mechanisms that allow team to go over the cap.

$16.4M is not chump change but obviously far less than what Ayton hoped for.  PHO could still offer above that amount if they want, I believe, but I doubt they offer much more.  Ayton was hoping for a full rookie deal of 5 years $172M guaranteed.  PHO wanted no part of that.

In any case, there is no way the Celtics can offer anything close or realistically do a sign and trade.

Re: Which center should we sign?
« Reply #134 on: July 06, 2022, 01:56:54 PM »

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I'm on the Boogie Train right now.

I liked how he played coming off the bench behind Jokic last season, including in the playoffs against GS.  And by most accounts he was a strong clubhouse presence for Denver.  I think he clearly has more left in the tank than a guy like LMA, and I'd prefer to go for the guy who is definitely a rotation-caliber NBA player over a young project who might be useful at some indeterminate point in the future. 

He's not without his baggage, but for the minimum you're either going to get baggage or you're going to get somebody who just isn't very good.  In this case I'll take the baggage.  I have confidence that Ime can keep him focused well enough.