Author Topic: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland  (Read 6269 times)

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Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2019, 02:50:04 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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14+20+Memphis pick for 4.

Maybe throw in a player

I cannot believe that NO traded DA and got a top 4 pick to turn it two midFirst round picks

For what it’s worth, my gut says that package would be centered around Marcus Smart and picks.  In the rumors of the trade discussions for Davis, Smart was frequently mentioned with either Jaylen or Jason, and while various reports have been put out that one or both of those two were off the table, there have been no such protestations about Smart.  Meanwhile, the Pelicans reportedly want a player, and not more draft picks, as their primary takeaway from trading #4 (which makes sense both given the draft and all the other future picks they have coming from LA.)

I think you could make an argument his value is as high as it will ever be. Just made first team all defense, and shot above average from 3, 3 years on value deal. Not saying his defense will decline, but if for whatever reason he is a bench guy next year and/or the c's take a step back he might not repeat the all defense. And 3 pnt shooting is variable, last year may have been an outlier. So might ainge move a peak value guy for a long term price? Sure. But I would hate to see Marcus go. He would be a nice fit for NOP tho.

Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2019, 02:55:09 PM »

Offline td450

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I've only seen some film of Garland, but he's got really advanced offensive skills, and should be able to get a clean shot off against anyone. Very tight handle. Super quick, shifty and smooth, with a beautiful jumper. If you want to build around a young core and want a player who can consistently break the defense all by himself, he's a very good choice. Without Kyrie, we don't have a guard who can do this.

It would be a very bold move to trade Smart for him, but if you are going for it, I can see them going in that direction.

Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2019, 02:55:55 PM »

Offline boscel33

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You can make an argument, that the 4th pick was the best asset the Pelicans received for trading Davis. They are not giving that pick away, without getting a haul back in return. The conversation has to start with the Memphis pick and at least two first rounders in this draft.

I'd probably do the Memphis pick and two of this years, but if you want the 14, you get 22.
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Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2019, 03:11:43 PM »

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Feels like when Ainge wanted a pick to draft Tyreke Evans but was only offering up Kendrick Perkins.

Wanting to draft someone and being willing to give what is costs to get that pick are two very different things. How many times have we seen this before with Ainge? Interested in a high draft pick and offering up hardly anything to get that player.

I say he is just doing due diligence and there is nothing to get excited about unless we hear some team is actually interested in whatever Ainge is willing to offer.

Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2019, 03:13:14 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Feels like when Ainge wanted a pick to draft Tyreke Evans but was only offering up Kendrick Perkins.
After his health issues, Ainge has to reestablish that he'll cold call you with the worst offers in the league till someone bites or they block his number.

He's back!  ;D

Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2019, 03:15:02 PM »

Offline Silky

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14+20+Memphis pick for 4.

Maybe throw in a player

I cannot believe that NO traded DA and got a top 4 pick to turn it two midFirst round picks

For what it’s worth, my gut says that package would be centered around Marcus Smart and picks.  In the rumors of the trade discussions for Davis, Smart was frequently mentioned with either Jaylen or Jason, and while various reports have been put out that one or both of those two were off the table, there have been no such protestations about Smart.  Meanwhile, the Pelicans reportedly want a player, and not more draft picks, as their primary takeaway from trading #4 (which makes sense both given the draft and all the other future picks they have coming from LA.)

I think you could make an argument his value is as high as it will ever be. Just made first team all defense, and shot above average from 3, 3 years on value deal. Not saying his defense will decline, but if for whatever reason he is a bench guy next year and/or the c's take a step back he might not repeat the all defense. And 3 pnt shooting is variable, last year may have been an outlier. So might ainge move a peak value guy for a long term price? Sure. But I would hate to see Marcus go. He would be a nice fit for NOP tho.

Thats the problem, Marcus' value right now is more than pick number 4 IMO, and I dont know what else NOP could offer up.

Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2019, 03:25:58 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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14+20+Memphis pick for 4.

Maybe throw in a player

I cannot believe that NO traded DA and got a top 4 pick to turn it two midFirst round picks

For what it’s worth, my gut says that package would be centered around Marcus Smart and picks.  In the rumors of the trade discussions for Davis, Smart was frequently mentioned with either Jaylen or Jason, and while various reports have been put out that one or both of those two were off the table, there have been no such protestations about Smart.  Meanwhile, the Pelicans reportedly want a player, and not more draft picks, as their primary takeaway from trading #4 (which makes sense both given the draft and all the other future picks they have coming from LA.)

I think you could make an argument his value is as high as it will ever be. Just made first team all defense, and shot above average from 3, 3 years on value deal. Not saying his defense will decline, but if for whatever reason he is a bench guy next year and/or the c's take a step back he might not repeat the all defense. And 3 pnt shooting is variable, last year may have been an outlier. So might ainge move a peak value guy for a long term price? Sure. But I would hate to see Marcus go. He would be a nice fit for NOP tho.

Thats the problem, Marcus' value right now is more than pick number 4 IMO, and I dont know what else NOP could offer up.

I dont think anyone who isnt a C's fan would agree with that.

Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2019, 03:43:08 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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14+20+Memphis pick for 4.

Maybe throw in a player

I cannot believe that NO traded DA and got a top 4 pick to turn it two midFirst round picks

For what it’s worth, my gut says that package would be centered around Marcus Smart and picks.  In the rumors of the trade discussions for Davis, Smart was frequently mentioned with either Jaylen or Jason, and while various reports have been put out that one or both of those two were off the table, there have been no such protestations about Smart.  Meanwhile, the Pelicans reportedly want a player, and not more draft picks, as their primary takeaway from trading #4 (which makes sense both given the draft and all the other future picks they have coming from LA.)

I think you could make an argument his value is as high as it will ever be. Just made first team all defense, and shot above average from 3, 3 years on value deal. Not saying his defense will decline, but if for whatever reason he is a bench guy next year and/or the c's take a step back he might not repeat the all defense. And 3 pnt shooting is variable, last year may have been an outlier. So might ainge move a peak value guy for a long term price? Sure. But I would hate to see Marcus go. He would be a nice fit for NOP tho.

Thats the problem, Marcus' value right now is more than pick number 4 IMO, and I dont know what else NOP could offer up.

I dont think anyone who isnt a C's fan would agree with that.
I'm a Celtic fan and I don't believe that. #4 picks should have ceilings much higher than Smart's current playing level. Those ceilings are what you pay for in dealing a pick that close to the top of the draft.

And yes, I have stated across this board that this draft sucks. But even in a draft that is as bad as I think this year's draft is, the ceiling of the #4 player is still more valuable than what you can expect from Smart.

As a #6 pick, if truth be told, Smart is a bit of disappointment. You expect more than elite defensive role player at #4 or #6. But that is what Smart is and, IMO, that really is never going to change. I don't see Smart making a Chauncey Billups type jump in his career.

Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2019, 03:49:35 PM »

Offline RPGenerate

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I doubt it would happen. I guess it matters how much the Pelicans value that Memphis pick. I would assume that they would want Smart and other picks in the deal as well, along with trying to offload one of their bad contracts to us (Moore or Hill). So Smart, Memphis pick, #14 and #20 pick for #4 pick and E'Twaun Moore? I don't think the Pelicans bite.
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Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2019, 03:54:41 PM »

Offline Silky

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14+20+Memphis pick for 4.

Maybe throw in a player

I cannot believe that NO traded DA and got a top 4 pick to turn it two midFirst round picks

For what it’s worth, my gut says that package would be centered around Marcus Smart and picks.  In the rumors of the trade discussions for Davis, Smart was frequently mentioned with either Jaylen or Jason, and while various reports have been put out that one or both of those two were off the table, there have been no such protestations about Smart.  Meanwhile, the Pelicans reportedly want a player, and not more draft picks, as their primary takeaway from trading #4 (which makes sense both given the draft and all the other future picks they have coming from LA.)

I think you could make an argument his value is as high as it will ever be. Just made first team all defense, and shot above average from 3, 3 years on value deal. Not saying his defense will decline, but if for whatever reason he is a bench guy next year and/or the c's take a step back he might not repeat the all defense. And 3 pnt shooting is variable, last year may have been an outlier. So might ainge move a peak value guy for a long term price? Sure. But I would hate to see Marcus go. He would be a nice fit for NOP tho.

Thats the problem, Marcus' value right now is more than pick number 4 IMO, and I dont know what else NOP could offer up.

I dont think anyone who isnt a C's fan would agree with that.

All nba defensive gamechanger
Solid shooter
Good a ball control
Tough as nails.

I dont know. In this draft i am not sure anyone at #4 is guaranteed to be more than that.

Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2019, 03:56:54 PM »

Offline Silky

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I doubt it would happen. I guess it matters how much the Pelicans value that Memphis pick. I would assume that they would want Smart and other picks in the deal as well, along with trying to offload one of their bad contracts to us (Moore or Hill). So Smart, Memphis pick, #14 and #20 pick for #4 pick and E'Twaun Moore? I don't think the Pelicans bite.

Way too much to offer.

Smart and 14 for moore and 4 is alot.

Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2019, 04:00:23 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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NOP have a fairly full roster so they don't really need multiple picks this year.  If they got our #14 plus the future Memphis pick for #4, they may well come out ahead but it is a risk most teams don't take.  I think it is a reasonable framework for a trade though.  Either team could win it.  Top 5 picks crash and burn all the time.  Any draft pick is a huge risk, especially these days when they come out at age 18 or 19.

If I was NOP, I would keep the pick and put the best player that I could next to Zion.  They have 2 second round picks also so they really don't need more picks.  I think if we had a better pick this year as opposed to the Memphis pick being future, we might be in a better position but with it flipped and us only having #14 this year, I doubt we could get NOP to bite on it.

Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2019, 04:02:42 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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14+20+Memphis pick for 4.

Maybe throw in a player

I cannot believe that NO traded DA and got a top 4 pick to turn it two midFirst round picks

For what it’s worth, my gut says that package would be centered around Marcus Smart and picks.  In the rumors of the trade discussions for Davis, Smart was frequently mentioned with either Jaylen or Jason, and while various reports have been put out that one or both of those two were off the table, there have been no such protestations about Smart.  Meanwhile, the Pelicans reportedly want a player, and not more draft picks, as their primary takeaway from trading #4 (which makes sense both given the draft and all the other future picks they have coming from LA.)

I think you could make an argument his value is as high as it will ever be. Just made first team all defense, and shot above average from 3, 3 years on value deal. Not saying his defense will decline, but if for whatever reason he is a bench guy next year and/or the c's take a step back he might not repeat the all defense. And 3 pnt shooting is variable, last year may have been an outlier. So might ainge move a peak value guy for a long term price? Sure. But I would hate to see Marcus go. He would be a nice fit for NOP tho.

Thats the problem, Marcus' value right now is more than pick number 4 IMO, and I dont know what else NOP could offer up.

I dont think anyone who isnt a C's fan would agree with that.

All nba defensive gamechanger
Solid shooter
Good a ball control
Tough as nails.

I dont know. In this draft i am not sure anyone at #4 is guaranteed to be more than that.

Maybe, but what a guy is guaranteed to he isn't how you measuee value. Garland could be worse than Smart. He could be much better. On the whole the 4 puck is worth more than Smart, you couldn't trade him straight up for that pick.

Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2019, 04:07:28 PM »

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NOP have a fairly full roster so they don't really need multiple picks this year.  If they got our #14 plus the future Memphis pick for #4, they may well come out ahead but it is a risk most teams don't take.  I think it is a reasonable framework for a trade though.  Either team could win it.  Top 5 picks crash and burn all the time.  Any draft pick is a huge risk, especially these days when they come out at age 18 or 19.

If I was NOP, I would keep the pick and put the best player that I could next to Zion.  They have 2 second round picks also so they really don't need more picks.  I think if we had a better pick this year as opposed to the Memphis pick being future, we might be in a better position but with it flipped and us only having #14 this year, I doubt we could get NOP to bite on it.
It's definitely an interesting conversation. Depends if David Griffin is a big gambler. If he thinks that memphis pick has a good enough chance to be a top 3 pick in the next several years, he might consider a trade package with that pick and Smart (among other picks) to be more valuable than the 4th pick in a weak draft, along with possibly being able to dump a bad contract on us.
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Re: Celtics considering trading up to #4 for PG Garland
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2019, 04:08:00 PM »

Offline td450

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I'm surprised NO isn't looking at taking Garland.

Just listened to Woj podcast with Mike Schmitz on the draft. They talked about how some scouts see Garland as having real star potential and think he'll be better than Morant or Barrett. He may end up being a steal at #4.