Patriots 2023 Season

[Celtics2021]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

This actually isn't true. For over a decade, the Patriots used the short pass as an effective way to keep the defense honest. It became a later trend (think Jonas Gray and Sony Michel) that the Patriots started pounding the ball. Yes, they had Antowain Smith and Corey Dillon. The 21st century Patriots offense is known for the dink and dunk.

Even in the 16-0 season the Pats still had the 9th most rushing attempts, the year after they were 4th. Brady's 5200 season they dropped back to 17th, but were 2nd in 2012 when Brady had 4800 yards.  The Pats ran the ball a lot during Brady's prime

In that same year they were (tied) 9th in rush attempts they were 5th in pass attempts, because they were second in total plays.  They weren’t the Saints, but they passed more than most teams.

[Donoghus]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

This actually isn't true. For over a decade, the Patriots used the short pass as an effective way to keep the defense honest. It became a later trend (think Jonas Gray and Sony Michel) that the Patriots started pounding the ball. Yes, they had Antowain Smith and Corey Dillon. The 21st century Patriots offense is known for the dink and dunk.

Even in the 16-0 season the Pats still had the 9th most rushing attempts, the year after they were 4th. Brady's 5200 season they dropped back to 17th, but were 2nd in 2012 when Brady had 4800 yards.  The Pats ran the ball a lot during Brady's prime

In that same year they were (tied) 9th in rush attempts they were 5th in pass attempts, because they were second in total plays.  They weren’t the Saints, but they passed more than most teams.

I wonder how much of the rushing attempts number was skewed by 4th quarter runs when the game was out of reach.  The Pats were blowing teams out on almost a weekly basis for much of that season.

And on a larger note, they were winning much of Brady's prime so how much of the rushing is skewed again by late game runs.

[Donoghus]

And the Pats apparently just signed a past his prime Zeke.

[Goldstar88]

And the Pats apparently just signed a past his prime Zeke.

Awesome. How is he at blocking? 

[footey]

And the Pats apparently just signed a past his prime Zeke.

Awesome. How is he at blocking? 

Supposedly pretty good.

[Celtics2021]

Bill is a conservative defensive coach and always has been.  He is perhaps the best defensive coach ever, but his style has always been run the ball, manage the clock, and rely on the defense to get a stop when needed.  It was only Brady's shear greatness coupled with Moss that allowed for a more pass heavy attack for a few seasons, but otherwise, hand the ball off and get out of the way.  I mean at 44 in Tampa Tom set several of his own personal records passing the ball.

And while that style worked great in the early 2000's, it is a relic that I just don't think will work in the modern game.

This actually isn't true. For over a decade, the Patriots used the short pass as an effective way to keep the defense honest. It became a later trend (think Jonas Gray and Sony Michel) that the Patriots started pounding the ball. Yes, they had Antowain Smith and Corey Dillon. The 21st century Patriots offense is known for the dink and dunk.

Even in the 16-0 season the Pats still had the 9th most rushing attempts, the year after they were 4th. Brady's 5200 season they dropped back to 17th, but were 2nd in 2012 when Brady had 4800 yards.  The Pats ran the ball a lot during Brady's prime

In that same year they were (tied) 9th in rush attempts they were 5th in pass attempts, because they were second in total plays.  They weren’t the Saints, but they passed more than most teams.

I wonder how much of the rushing attempts number was skewed by 4th quarter runs when the game was out of reach.  The Pats were blowing teams out on almost a weekly basis for much of that season.

And on a larger note, they were winning much of Brady's prime so how much of the rushing is skewed again by late game runs.

Another good point.  In the 16-0 year, the Pats had a 59/41 pass-run ratio in quarters 1-3, and were 50/50 in the fourth.  Other years won’t be as pronounced, obviously, but for certain there was an impact.  And doubly so if you’re trying to compare the Pats to other teams, who likely increased their passes in the fourth if they were often losing late.

[Goldstar88]

And the Pats apparently just signed a past his prime Zeke.

Awesome. How is he at blocking? 

Supposedly pretty good.

Hope so. He will need to be.

[Neurotic Guy]

And the Pats apparently just signed a past his prime Zeke.

Awesome. How is he at blocking? 

Supposedly pretty good.

Hope so. He will need to be.

Worth his weight in gold if he can still block as effectively as he used to.

[gouki88]

Zeke was a pretty solid endzone threat last season. Nearly 1000 scrimmage yards and 12 TDs - love Rhamondre & Zeke as a 1-2 RB punch

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Zeke was a pretty solid endzone threat last season. Nearly 1000 scrimmage yards and 12 TDs - love Rhamondre & Zeke as a 1-2 RB punch

Yeah, I'm down with this signing. Could be a really good addition.

[green_bballers13]

Sure, I'll take a flyer on Zeke.

I still think the offensive line is the bigger issue. Also Mac Jones isn't that good. ESPN just ranked the Patriots QB position at 28/32 teams. Yikes.

All of my optimistic friends are telling me that Bill O'Brien is going to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

[gouki88]

Sure, I'll take a flyer on Zeke.

I still think the offensive line is the bigger issue. Also Mac Jones isn't that good. ESPN just ranked the Patriots QB position at 28/32 teams. Yikes.

All of my optimistic friends are telling me that Bill O'Brien is going to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

I think that's harsh from ESPN. I think Mac is middle of the road as a QB, anywhere in the 10-20 range. Zappe is a decent backup.

I don't think it's so much pulling "a rabbit out of a hat", but more just bringing in genuine coaching on offence. Jones is a good distributor, just not an athlete. I have him around 15-18 in QB rankings personally.

[Moranis]

Sure, I'll take a flyer on Zeke.

I still think the offensive line is the bigger issue. Also Mac Jones isn't that good. ESPN just ranked the Patriots QB position at 28/32 teams. Yikes.

All of my optimistic friends are telling me that Bill O'Brien is going to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

I think that's harsh from ESPN. I think Mac is middle of the road as a QB, anywhere in the 10-20 range. Zappe is a decent backup.

I don't think it's so much pulling "a rabbit out of a hat", but more just bringing in genuine coaching on offence. Jones is a good distributor, just not an athlete. I have him around 15-18 in QB rankings personally.

I think if you actually started to list QB's for this year, you'd find Mac is in the 20's.  28 seems a bit low, but there is an argument Mac is the worst QB in the AFC depending on what you think of the AFC South rookies (i.e. Stroud and Richardson).  Even if you think he is better than those 2, the only other QB you could easily argue he is better than is Pickett.  There are more bad QB's in the NFC, so I think he is in the 25 range.

[gouki88]

Sure, I'll take a flyer on Zeke.

I still think the offensive line is the bigger issue. Also Mac Jones isn't that good. ESPN just ranked the Patriots QB position at 28/32 teams. Yikes.

All of my optimistic friends are telling me that Bill O'Brien is going to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

I think that's harsh from ESPN. I think Mac is middle of the road as a QB, anywhere in the 10-20 range. Zappe is a decent backup.

I don't think it's so much pulling "a rabbit out of a hat", but more just bringing in genuine coaching on offence. Jones is a good distributor, just not an athlete. I have him around 15-18 in QB rankings personally.

I think if you actually started to list QB's for this year, you'd find Mac is in the 20's.  28 seems a bit low, but there is an argument Mac is the worst QB in the AFC depending on what you think of the AFC South rookies (i.e. Stroud and Richardson).  Even if you think he is better than those 2, the only other QB you could easily argue he is better than is Pickett.  There are more bad QB's in the NFC, so I think he is in the 25 range.

I think the decline we're seeing in guys like Stafford, Carr, Wilson & Tannehill is pretty legit, and will continue.

1. Mahomes
2. Burrow
3. Allen
4. Herbert
5. Rodgers
6. Hurts
7. Lawrence
8. Jackson
9. Cousins
10. Prescott
11. Geno Smith
12. Watson (huge ? here)
13. Goff
14. Daniel Jones
15. Tua
16. Fields
17. Mac Jones

I could see an argument for Stafford and Carr maybe, but not for Wilson nor Tannehill.

[Goldstar88]

Sure, I'll take a flyer on Zeke.

I still think the offensive line is the bigger issue. Also Mac Jones isn't that good. ESPN just ranked the Patriots QB position at 28/32 teams. Yikes.

All of my optimistic friends are telling me that Bill O'Brien is going to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

Mac was pretty good his rookie season with an actual OC and a functioning offensive line. Didn’t have any weapons, but still managed 22TD’s and 3800yards passing. So now they have a legitimate OC again, but a poor Offenive line and still an overall mediocre group of WR’s. I wonder how many QB’s would thrive in that environment? 3 different OC’s in the 3 years..It’s a shame that poor management is holding Mac Jones back.