Author Topic: Olynyk is a problem  (Read 13054 times)

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Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2015, 11:03:09 PM »

Offline KingofDaPlayazBall

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We will be better once we get rid of him and Sully then watch the defense improve drastically.   Trouble is Sully can score and rebound and a player of a certain caliber needs to be attained first.

In my opinion, Sully's defense is actually good. He defends the post, rotates, and attempts to challenge shots. As soon as we get a center who can contain guard penetration he will look even better. Sully has valuable skills rebounding, shooting, and very underrated skill - takes up a lot of spaces thus making it harder for opposing offense to operate. He is not a problem, but roster construction is. Once again, Sully needs a mobile center next to him - like WCS, Tyson Chandler, Noah (just to use as examples, not players to get by any means).

So what are the good things that KO does well defensively??

The main bad thing is that he is too aggressive and fouls too frequently. He will learn

the 2nd bad is that he has to guard players he shouldn't be guarding. He is a stretch 4 guarding Centers alot of times


There is alot of good things KO does on the defensive end. You either favour sully or turn a blind eye to the good things KO does on the court on the defensive end

Uh no...
Olynlyk fouls a lot because he gives up ground too easily, and opponents can easily get in scoring positions without any resistance.  Olynlyk is also slow, speed wise and intelligent wise.  Always missing rotations, loosing his own man, and does not have the speed to recover.   Olynlyk is weak, cant box out, gives up rebounds and cant challange shots correctly without fouling.

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2015, 11:25:21 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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We will be better once we get rid of him and Sully then watch the defense improve drastically.   Trouble is Sully can score and rebound and a player of a certain caliber needs to be attained first.

In my opinion, Sully's defense is actually good. He defends the post, rotates, and attempts to challenge shots. As soon as we get a center who can contain guard penetration he will look even better. Sully has valuable skills rebounding, shooting, and very underrated skill - takes up a lot of spaces thus making it harder for opposing offense to operate. He is not a problem, but roster construction is. Once again, Sully needs a mobile center next to him - like WCS, Tyson Chandler, Noah (just to use as examples, not players to get by any means).

So what are the good things that KO does well defensively??

The main bad thing is that he is too aggressive and fouls too frequently. He will learn

the 2nd bad is that he has to guard players he shouldn't be guarding. He is a stretch 4 guarding Centers alot of times


There is alot of good things KO does on the defensive end. You either favour sully or turn a blind eye to the good things KO does on the court on the defensive end

Uh no...
Olynlyk fouls a lot because he gives up ground too easily, and opponents can easily get in scoring positions without any resistance.  Olynlyk is also slow, speed wise and intelligent wise.  Always missing rotations, loosing his own man, and does not have the speed to recover.   Olynlyk is weak, cant box out, gives up rebounds and cant challange shots correctly without fouling.


He is always missing rotations?? 

He is losing his man at times bc he is helping out . Getting to open space to prevent guys from trying to get a free layup.   He needs to learn when to overhelp and when to not a little better.  This is only in his 2nd year

Have you seen him run out to perimeter to distract shooters? how many times does he do this?

His effort from one end to the other is exceptional. For a big player he has amazing stamina

He will be fine. Some of you guys are comparing KO to a Deandre Jordan or Ibaka. KO obviously is not at their level athletically.

Offensively he has some excellent games. Some snoozers. 2nd year player for heavens sake.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 11:38:47 PM by triboy16f »

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2015, 11:47:41 PM »

Offline dwoumn

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We will be better once we get rid of him and Sully then watch the defense improve drastically.   Trouble is Sully can score and rebound and a player of a certain caliber needs to be attained first.

In my opinion, Sully's defense is actually good. He defends the post, rotates, and attempts to challenge shots. As soon as we get a center who can contain guard penetration he will look even better. Sully has valuable skills rebounding, shooting, and very underrated skill - takes up a lot of spaces thus making it harder for opposing offense to operate. He is not a problem, but roster construction is. Once again, Sully needs a mobile center next to him - like WCS, Tyson Chandler, Noah (just to use as examples, not players to get by any means).
Finally someone who knows defense
Yes Sullinger is a solid defender much better than Olynlyk, his only problem though seems to be with defending the pick and roll he lacks the range to cover grounds.  but overall a solid D.

The biggest issue with Sully in the pick & roll is the way the C's defend it. They use the ice principle: The on-ball defender angles their assignment into the big man defender, who is typically sagging back near the free throw line extended. This is meant to force the opponent into taking a low-percentage mid-range or three-point shot, as opposed to a potential layup. If not given up a pull up jumper, it creates a switch and a mismatch for the opposing guards versus our bigs. Depending upon when the pick and roll occurs, the other 3 defenders can't help too much. It's not Sully fault but more of a defensive scheme issue.

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2015, 11:48:30 PM »

Offline Megalodon

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We will be better once we get rid of him and Sully then watch the defense improve drastically.   Trouble is Sully can score and rebound and a player of a certain caliber needs to be attained first.

In my opinion, Sully's defense is actually good. He defends the post, rotates, and attempts to challenge shots. As soon as we get a center who can contain guard penetration he will look even better. Sully has valuable skills rebounding, shooting, and very underrated skill - takes up a lot of spaces thus making it harder for opposing offense to operate. He is not a problem, but roster construction is. Once again, Sully needs a mobile center next to him - like WCS, Tyson Chandler, Noah (just to use as examples, not players to get by any means).

So what are the good things that KO does well defensively??

The main bad thing is that he is too aggressive and fouls too frequently. He will learn

the 2nd bad is that he has to guard players he shouldn't be guarding. He is a stretch 4 guarding Centers alot of times


There is alot of good things KO does on the defensive end. You either favour sully or turn a blind eye to the good things KO does on the court on the defensive end

Uh no...
Olynlyk fouls a lot because he gives up ground too easily, and opponents can easily get in scoring positions without any resistance.  Olynlyk is also slow, speed wise and intelligent wise.  Always missing rotations, loosing his own man, and does not have the speed to recover.   Olynlyk is weak, cant box out, gives up rebounds and cant challange shots correctly without fouling.


He is always missing rotations?? 

He is losing his man at times bc he is helping out . Getting to open space to prevent guys from trying to get a free layup.   He needs to learn when to overhelp and when to not a little better.  This is only in his 2nd year

Have you seen him run out to perimeter to distract shooters? how many times does he do this?

His effort from one end to the other is exceptional. For a big player he has amazing stamina

He will be fine. Some of you guys are comparing KO to a Deandre Jordan or Ibaka. KO obviously is not at their level athletically.

Offensively he has some excellent games. Some snoozers. 2nd year player for heavens sake.

If by "helping out" you mean unable to decide between double teaming and sticking to his man then I agree with you. However, to me it looks like he is stuck in between two people and is unable to make a proper decision on defense. I have not seen any effective results of Olynyk's "defense". None of us compare Olynyk to Ibaka and DeAndre (who is NOT a great defender, in my opinion), we just point out some obvious flaws in his game that hurt the team.

Also, most, if not all, Olynyk's so called good offensive games came against other team's benches - not starters. He is not capable of scoring on actual, NBA starting talent. Second year, in my opinion, is not an excuse, Sullinger was able to do so in his first year and is also younger than Olynyk. Basically, Olynyk is just athletically challenged, soft, indecisive player with no special offensive skills to make up for absolutely horrendous "defense".

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2015, 11:52:24 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

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We will be better once we get rid of him and Sully then watch the defense improve drastically.   Trouble is Sully can score and rebound and a player of a certain caliber needs to be attained first.

In my opinion, Sully's defense is actually good. He defends the post, rotates, and attempts to challenge shots. As soon as we get a center who can contain guard penetration he will look even better. Sully has valuable skills rebounding, shooting, and very underrated skill - takes up a lot of spaces thus making it harder for opposing offense to operate. He is not a problem, but roster construction is. Once again, Sully needs a mobile center next to him - like WCS, Tyson Chandler, Noah (just to use as examples, not players to get by any means).
Finally someone who knows defense
Yes Sullinger is a solid defender much better than Olynlyk, his only problem though seems to be with defending the pick and roll he lacks the range to cover grounds.  but overall a solid D.

The biggest issue with Sully in the pick & roll is the way the C's defend it. They use the ice principle: The on-ball defender angles their assignment into the big man defender, who is typically sagging back near the free throw line extended. This is meant to force the opponent into taking a low-percentage mid-range or three-point shot, as opposed to a potential layup. If not given up a pull up jumper, it creates a switch and a mismatch for the opposing guards versus our bigs. Depending upon when the pick and roll occurs, the other 3 defenders can't help too much. It's not Sully fault but more of a defensive scheme issue.
So you would rather have the Celtics switch on picks so Sully and Olynyk could guard players like Teague and Curry straight up? You might want to rethink that. Sully would look even worse buddy.

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2015, 11:52:24 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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We will be better once we get rid of him and Sully then watch the defense improve drastically.   Trouble is Sully can score and rebound and a player of a certain caliber needs to be attained first.

In my opinion, Sully's defense is actually good. He defends the post, rotates, and attempts to challenge shots. As soon as we get a center who can contain guard penetration he will look even better. Sully has valuable skills rebounding, shooting, and very underrated skill - takes up a lot of spaces thus making it harder for opposing offense to operate. He is not a problem, but roster construction is. Once again, Sully needs a mobile center next to him - like WCS, Tyson Chandler, Noah (just to use as examples, not players to get by any means).

So what are the good things that KO does well defensively??

The main bad thing is that he is too aggressive and fouls too frequently. He will learn

the 2nd bad is that he has to guard players he shouldn't be guarding. He is a stretch 4 guarding Centers alot of times


There is alot of good things KO does on the defensive end. You either favour sully or turn a blind eye to the good things KO does on the court on the defensive end

Uh no...
Olynlyk fouls a lot because he gives up ground too easily, and opponents can easily get in scoring positions without any resistance.  Olynlyk is also slow, speed wise and intelligent wise.  Always missing rotations, loosing his own man, and does not have the speed to recover.   Olynlyk is weak, cant box out, gives up rebounds and cant challange shots correctly without fouling.


He is always missing rotations?? 

He is losing his man at times bc he is helping out . Getting to open space to prevent guys from trying to get a free layup.   He needs to learn when to overhelp and when to not a little better.  This is only in his 2nd year

Have you seen him run out to perimeter to distract shooters? how many times does he do this?

His effort from one end to the other is exceptional. For a big player he has amazing stamina

He will be fine. Some of you guys are comparing KO to a Deandre Jordan or Ibaka. KO obviously is not at their level athletically.

Offensively he has some excellent games. Some snoozers. 2nd year player for heavens sake.

If by "helping out" you mean unable to decide between double teaming and sticking to his man then I agree with you. However, to me it looks like he is stuck in between two people and is unable to make a proper decision on defense. I have not seen any effective results of Olynyk's "defense". None of us compare Olynyk to Ibaka and DeAndre (who is NOT a great defender, in my opinion), we just point out some obvious flaws in his game that hurt the team.

Also, most, if not all, Olynyk's so called good offensive games came against other team's benches - not starters. He is not capable of scoring on actual, NBA starting talent. Second year, in my opinion, is not an excuse, Sullinger was able to do so in his first year and is also younger than Olynyk. Basically, Olynyk is just athletically challenged, soft, indecisive player with no special offensive skills to make up for absolutely horrendous "defense".

Talk about this next season. The guys body is not even fully developed. You are jumping the gun.

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2015, 12:04:24 AM »

Offline Kane3387

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Too bad drafted him Over gobert.


KG: "Dude.... What is up with yo shorts?!"

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Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2015, 12:06:43 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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KO

Got the skills and IQ

He needs to put away the kid gloves ......embrace his man card and play hard in the paint


KO needs to go to the Akeem school of big men and learn some pistons moved and foot work ASAP

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2015, 12:18:37 AM »

Offline dwoumn

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We will be better once we get rid of him and Sully then watch the defense improve drastically.   Trouble is Sully can score and rebound and a player of a certain caliber needs to be attained first.

In my opinion, Sully's defense is actually good. He defends the post, rotates, and attempts to challenge shots. As soon as we get a center who can contain guard penetration he will look even better. Sully has valuable skills rebounding, shooting, and very underrated skill - takes up a lot of spaces thus making it harder for opposing offense to operate. He is not a problem, but roster construction is. Once again, Sully needs a mobile center next to him - like WCS, Tyson Chandler, Noah (just to use as examples, not players to get by any means).
Finally someone who knows defense
Yes Sullinger is a solid defender much better than Olynlyk, his only problem though seems to be with defending the pick and roll he lacks the range to cover grounds.  but overall a solid D.

The biggest issue with Sully in the pick & roll is the way the C's defend it. They use the ice principle: The on-ball defender angles their assignment into the big man defender, who is typically sagging back near the free throw line extended. This is meant to force the opponent into taking a low-percentage mid-range or three-point shot, as opposed to a potential layup. If not given up a pull up jumper, it creates a switch and a mismatch for the opposing guards versus our bigs. Depending upon when the pick and roll occurs, the other 3 defenders can't help too much. It's not Sully fault but more of a defensive scheme issue.
So you would rather have the Celtics switch on picks so Sully and Olynyk could guard players like Teague and Curry straight up? You might want to rethink that. Sully would look even worse buddy.

What I am saying is sometimes when the C's ice the pick and roll and the ball handler does NOT take the jumper that the big (Sully or Olynyk) gives them and the on-ball defender does not recover to defend the ball handler which then that creates the mismatch with a C's big covering a guard. It has happen multiple times the last 2 seasons and it's not a match we want to see. For the ice to work properly the C's big needs to force the guard into taking that jumper, which isn't the best idea, or the defending guard (Bradley, Turner, Smart) has to recover to pick up the ball handler and the big goes back to covering the screener.

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2015, 12:30:13 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I just figured out why KO played so well in Utah last year - billy goats are used to mountainous and rocky terrain, lol. ;D

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2015, 12:48:25 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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i was waiting for this particular knee-jerk thread.
OP is dead wrong.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01.html
c's have a +1.5 points per 100 possessions differential with KO on the floor. they have a terrible -6 points per 100 possessions differential without him.
so ultimately the boston celtics have a +7.5 points per possession differential with KO than without.

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2015, 12:53:08 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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i was waiting for this particular knee-jerk thread.
OP is dead wrong.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01.html
c's have a +1.5 points per 100 possessions differential with KO on the floor. they have a terrible -6 points per 100 possessions differential without him.
so ultimately the boston celtics have a +7.5 points per possession differential with KO than without.

TP.

I was going to point this out. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2015, 12:57:29 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Ainge traded up for him. Consider that when you're gauging how you feel about our future. I do not know  a single person, not even a friend that was at Gonzaga when Olynyk was there, who would've traded up into the lottery for him. I almost thought it was a joke. I (and every one I know) would say the same about the JJJ, Moore, and Melo picks. He's a total scrub.

Can not wait till this "rebuild" is deemed a failure and Ainge is gone.
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Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2015, 01:05:50 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Deleted:

Too snarky.   
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 01:59:42 AM by Celtics18 »
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Olynyk is a problem
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2015, 01:33:07 AM »

Offline Chris22

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I have been watching games this season and noticed an interesting trend - Celtics do significantly better with Olynyk off the floor. He is a defensive sieve with no special offensive skills. Consider this - after he got injured we beat Denver, nearly upset Golden State, etc. All of advanced defensive metrics went up significantly. I really do not understand people who say that Olynyk is valuable or is a good player - he is terrible. I hope he will get traded come draft day to move in the draft.

The Celtics are a +4 with Olynyk on the court and a -8 with Olynyk off the court.

http://www.82games.com/1415/1415BOS.HTM

The reason they are playing better now is Prince.