Author Topic: Tatum/Draymond picture  (Read 2943 times)

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Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2022, 11:39:03 AM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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Why put this pic up, Tatum ?

This group's propensity for hugging up with Celtic villain's is beyond my comprehension. First Kyrie, now this idiot Green, who Cedric Maxwell made clear would have been knocked out by the 80's Celtics. Both Irving and Green have shown intentional, blatant disrespect to the Celtic fans in Boston Garden and for the franchise and our tradition. In my book, this is being soft.

I remember Paul Silas talking about the 70's group and how they never helped up an opponent off the floor because they were considered to be the enemy. That is a verbatim quote and is the attitude I have seen Celtic teams play with for years.

These players live in a different world now though...back then player movement across teams, let alone across the country, was much less common. These days you have players getting traded, moving through free agency, etc. Not to mention the fact that a lot of these guys get to meet each other during AAU ball, then you have social media, email, texts...back in the 70s if you wanted to talk to another player you had to pick up the phone or physically meet them. So a lot of that tribalism and "hatred" just isn't there anymore. Because like KD, the guy that you hated (Draymond) may end up being your teammate next season. Though in that case maybe the hate didn't dissipate as much as we all thought.) So you don't want to hate them just because they play for a different team, because it can all change so quickly.

The Athletic had an article about it during the finals:

Quote
Things like AAU, player mobility and Team USA have essentially ruined rivalries between players. Most beefs, scraps and playoff series end in mutual respect, friendship and even being teammates. Remember, Kevin Durant played against the Warriors before he played for the Warriors.

The fans are the ones who carry grudges. Curry, born in Akron, Ohio, could, to this day, win an election for dog catcher in northeast Ohio while carrying roughly zero percent of the vote among women age 55 and up. (My mom may or may not have been included in exit polling for this one.) He did too much shimmying, smirking and 3-point splashing while beating the Cavaliers all those years.

Rivalries among players tend to last longer when there is actual violence — and not the face-to-face kind. It is far more likely the Warriors’ players hold a grudge against Dillon Brooks of the Grizzlies for what he did to Gary Payton II than against any Celtic for what’s transpired in these finals so far.

The 2022 finals has a little edge to it, to be sure, but we’re a long way from anything that lasts.

https://theathletic.com/3358345/2022/06/10/nba-finals-warriors-celtics-rivalry/

And specifically with the relationship between Tatum and Draymond, written just after Game 3:

Quote
BOSTON — The most hated man in Boston was, just before midnight Wednesday, having a very cordial conversation with Jayson Tatum’s mother, Brandy Cole, who had Tatum’s son, Deuce, at her side.

She did not appear to despise Draymond Green.

“We’re not talking to you!” Cole said to Green, smiling.

Then, Green demanded Deuce give him five. Deuce hesitated, so Green lifted the 4-year-old high into the air, his little head almost touching the ceiling. Then little Deuce and Green’s son, D.J., who’d sat on the podium with his father, took a picture together.

This was about 45 minutes after Celtics fans had been chanting “F— you, Draymond!” in stereo, on opposite sides of TD Garden. They alternated that chant throughout Game 3 of the NBA Finals with “Draymond sucks!”

https://theathletic.com/3356523/2022/06/09/draymond-green-game-3-warriors-celtics/

Draymond recently had Tatum on his podcast as a guest for an hour. And they played together in Team USA. I think it's all those interactions that make it hard for someone to "hate" someone else just because of the team they play for these days. As fans we love these rivalries, because we have no stake other than cheering for a team (and because we're fanatics  :laugh:). Sports is about us vs them, and the more hate the juicier and memorable the rivalry. But for players I think it gets harder when they know each other much more than they did in the past.

But as the article mentioned, if someone injures someone, and they feel it's deliberate, then it's a different story. I'm sure there's a handful of those genuine hatreds, but for the most part the competitiveness is left on the court and not carried on off it.

To your general point about player relations these days, I think you're right, but I think that makes it more difficult for a lot of fans who don't want to see "our guys" hanging out with "their guys."
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

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Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2022, 11:50:43 AM »

Offline Rondo9

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Awesome. Hang out with one of the guys you just lost to. I've been saying that Tatum will leave the Celtics for the Lakers, but maybe he'll leave for the Warriors instead, á la KD ("If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!").
It's pretty funny how much more petty fans are than players

After the awful Finals Tatum just had, I think he should be burning with a passion for a rematch and a shot at revenge, not hanging out with one of the guys who just whooped him and his team. But maybe that’s just me.
They are not remotely close to mutually exclusive. Weird that you think they are

I don't think it's weird at all. Seems to me like it would be very difficult to maintain a high level of focus on a professional goal while hanging out with one of the main individuals who just kept you from reaching that goal and could very well be in the way once again next season. And I think Draymond's a savvy-enough guy to see something like this as an opportunity to get a bit of a psychological edge on one of his chief opponents—you know, get friendly with the guy off the court, so that when they're on the court together, Tatum doesn't see him as 100% "the enemy." Sometimes you need to soften the opponent only a little in order to get the upper hand.

Or maybe they're just friends who can separate their work life from their personal life.

Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2022, 12:06:39 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Why put this pic up, Tatum ?

This group's propensity for hugging up with Celtic villain's is beyond my comprehension. First Kyrie, now this idiot Green, who Cedric Maxwell made clear would have been knocked out by the 80's Celtics. Both Irving and Green have shown intentional, blatant disrespect to the Celtic fans in Boston Garden and for the franchise and our tradition. In my book, this is being soft.

I remember Paul Silas talking about the 70's group and how they never helped up an opponent off the floor because they were considered to be the enemy. That is a verbatim quote and is the attitude I have seen Celtic teams play with for years.

These players live in a different world now though...back then player movement across teams, let alone across the country, was much less common. These days you have players getting traded, moving through free agency, etc. Not to mention the fact that a lot of these guys get to meet each other during AAU ball, then you have social media, email, texts...back in the 70s if you wanted to talk to another player you had to pick up the phone or physically meet them. So a lot of that tribalism and "hatred" just isn't there anymore. Because like KD, the guy that you hated (Draymond) may end up being your teammate next season. Though in that case maybe the hate didn't dissipate as much as we all thought.) So you don't want to hate them just because they play for a different team, because it can all change so quickly.

The Athletic had an article about it during the finals:

Quote
Things like AAU, player mobility and Team USA have essentially ruined rivalries between players. Most beefs, scraps and playoff series end in mutual respect, friendship and even being teammates. Remember, Kevin Durant played against the Warriors before he played for the Warriors.

The fans are the ones who carry grudges. Curry, born in Akron, Ohio, could, to this day, win an election for dog catcher in northeast Ohio while carrying roughly zero percent of the vote among women age 55 and up. (My mom may or may not have been included in exit polling for this one.) He did too much shimmying, smirking and 3-point splashing while beating the Cavaliers all those years.

Rivalries among players tend to last longer when there is actual violence — and not the face-to-face kind. It is far more likely the Warriors’ players hold a grudge against Dillon Brooks of the Grizzlies for what he did to Gary Payton II than against any Celtic for what’s transpired in these finals so far.

The 2022 finals has a little edge to it, to be sure, but we’re a long way from anything that lasts.

https://theathletic.com/3358345/2022/06/10/nba-finals-warriors-celtics-rivalry/

And specifically with the relationship between Tatum and Draymond, written just after Game 3:

Quote
BOSTON — The most hated man in Boston was, just before midnight Wednesday, having a very cordial conversation with Jayson Tatum’s mother, Brandy Cole, who had Tatum’s son, Deuce, at her side.

She did not appear to despise Draymond Green.

“We’re not talking to you!” Cole said to Green, smiling.

Then, Green demanded Deuce give him five. Deuce hesitated, so Green lifted the 4-year-old high into the air, his little head almost touching the ceiling. Then little Deuce and Green’s son, D.J., who’d sat on the podium with his father, took a picture together.

This was about 45 minutes after Celtics fans had been chanting “F— you, Draymond!” in stereo, on opposite sides of TD Garden. They alternated that chant throughout Game 3 of the NBA Finals with “Draymond sucks!”

https://theathletic.com/3356523/2022/06/09/draymond-green-game-3-warriors-celtics/

Draymond recently had Tatum on his podcast as a guest for an hour. And they played together in Team USA. I think it's all those interactions that make it hard for someone to "hate" someone else just because of the team they play for these days. As fans we love these rivalries, because we have no stake other than cheering for a team (and because we're fanatics  :laugh:). Sports is about us vs them, and the more hate the juicier and memorable the rivalry. But for players I think it gets harder when they know each other much more than they did in the past.

But as the article mentioned, if someone injures someone, and they feel it's deliberate, then it's a different story. I'm sure there's a handful of those genuine hatreds, but for the most part the competitiveness is left on the court and not carried on off it.

To your general point about player relations these days, I think you're right, but I think that makes it more difficult for a lot of fans who don't want to see "our guys" hanging out with "their guys."

No doubt. We hate the "other side" and we want our players to hate them too. We don't want to think they're best friends with them. As fans we're probably much more heavily emotionally invested in teams - a lot of us have supported the Cs for 30-40 years or more. But players are tradable commodities. They certainly have to be professionally invested, and give 100% to the team they represent, who is paying their wages. In some cases (very rare these days) the team may reward them by not trading them for the life of their employment, and they end up being those one-team players, like Magic, or Larry, or Kobe, or Dirk. I'm sure they will always have a soft spot for the team they play for. But what happens when you're someone like Rondo? Maybe you hated the Fakers when you were playing against them in 2008, but what happens when you are traded to them? And the players who you hated don't even play for that team anymore? So now you should hate Boston who you won a chip with, because they traded you and they are now the "other"? That's where it gets confusing for players.

It's largely been occupational mobility and increased social interaction that's done this. It's not just the NBA, I think it's all sports in general where tribalism has largely disappeared from a player standpoint. 30 years ago in European soccer there weren't even foreign players playing in country leagues - it was mostly Englishmen in the English league, Frenchmen in the French league, etc. South Americans were considered very exotic when they did get signed. But now everyone plays in every league, they all know each other from either national duty or from club duty. Plus we just live in a more interconnected world.

That said it's one thing to be friends with rivals, it's another to flaunt it on social media. But they're young and it's all about networking for them these days  :-*

Personally it doesn't really bother me. As long as they're giving 100% on the court I don't really care who they are or are not friends with. I've also never had a problem with people being sportsmanlike and shaking hands at the end of a tough contest to show respect for the opponent after the game. But that's just me.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 12:15:07 PM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2022, 12:09:07 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Awesome. Hang out with one of the guys you just lost to. I've been saying that Tatum will leave the Celtics for the Lakers, but maybe he'll leave for the Warriors instead, á la KD ("If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!").
It's pretty funny how much more petty fans are than players

After the awful Finals Tatum just had, I think he should be burning with a passion for a rematch and a shot at revenge, not hanging out with one of the guys who just whooped him and his team. But maybe that’s just me.
They are not remotely close to mutually exclusive. Weird that you think they are

I don't think it's weird at all. Seems to me like it would be very difficult to maintain a high level of focus on a professional goal while hanging out with one of the main individuals who just kept you from reaching that goal and could very well be in the way once again next season. And I think Draymond's a savvy-enough guy to see something like this as an opportunity to get a bit of a psychological edge on one of his chief opponents—you know, get friendly with the guy off the court, so that when they're on the court together, Tatum doesn't see him as 100% "the enemy." Sometimes you need to soften the opponent only a little in order to get the upper hand.
Your opponent is not the enemy.  That line of thinking is everything that is wrong in America these days.
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.

Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2022, 12:18:34 PM »

Online ETNCeltics

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Awesome. Hang out with one of the guys you just lost to. I've been saying that Tatum will leave the Celtics for the Lakers, but maybe he'll leave for the Warriors instead, á la KD ("If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!").
It's pretty funny how much more petty fans are than players

It's not pettiness, many fans just remember how it used to be. I recall a young player, Fred Roberts maybe, helping up an opponent he had just knocked down, and Bill Walton grabbing him by the jersey and letting him know that in playoff basketball, you don't help your opponent up.


Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2022, 12:21:59 PM »

Offline jbpats

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who cares

Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2022, 12:51:47 PM »

Offline bello_man09

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Honestly us older heads see a problem with this---Tatum respects Draymond too much and does not go at him hard enough. Giannis Is european/african hes just a different breed. the things green was doing like holding his neck after that free throw. I wish Tatum would have hit him and gotten a Technical. I am loving brown's Energy. he doesnt like Draymond respects him but doesnt like him.

Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2022, 01:07:17 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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Awesome. Hang out with one of the guys you just lost to. I've been saying that Tatum will leave the Celtics for the Lakers, but maybe he'll leave for the Warriors instead, á la KD ("If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!").
It's pretty funny how much more petty fans are than players

After the awful Finals Tatum just had, I think he should be burning with a passion for a rematch and a shot at revenge, not hanging out with one of the guys who just whooped him and his team. But maybe that’s just me.
They are not remotely close to mutually exclusive. Weird that you think they are

I don't think it's weird at all. Seems to me like it would be very difficult to maintain a high level of focus on a professional goal while hanging out with one of the main individuals who just kept you from reaching that goal and could very well be in the way once again next season. And I think Draymond's a savvy-enough guy to see something like this as an opportunity to get a bit of a psychological edge on one of his chief opponents—you know, get friendly with the guy off the court, so that when they're on the court together, Tatum doesn't see him as 100% "the enemy." Sometimes you need to soften the opponent only a little in order to get the upper hand.
Your opponent is not the enemy.  That line of thinking is everything that is wrong in America these days.

Well, I was thinking only of sports there. In the rest of life, I agree with you.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2022, 01:37:26 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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 This is one of those things where fans don’t HAVE to like it. I don’t know why other people call it petty. It’s a game. Fans. Fanatics. The same people that are saying it’s petty will be later on screaming to the high heavens about something similar. It’s all about trying to show yourself as more reasonable than the average person. It’s sports. It’s ok to hate this. Nobody is gonna die over it. I hate it. There. Nothing happened.

Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2022, 01:57:47 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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This is one of those things where fans don’t HAVE to like it. I don’t know why other people call it petty. It’s a game. Fans. Fanatics. The same people that are saying it’s petty will be later on screaming to the high heavens about something similar. It’s all about trying to show yourself as more reasonable than the average person. It’s sports. It’s ok to hate this. Nobody is gonna die over it. I hate it. There. Nothing happened.

LOL. Well said.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2022, 06:39:06 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Awesome. Hang out with one of the guys you just lost to. I've been saying that Tatum will leave the Celtics for the Lakers, but maybe he'll leave for the Warriors instead, á la KD ("If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!").
It's pretty funny how much more petty fans are than players

It's not pettiness, many fans just remember how it used to be. I recall a young player, Fred Roberts maybe, helping up an opponent he had just knocked down, and Bill Walton grabbing him by the jersey and letting him know that in playoff basketball, you don't help your opponent up.
I guess the days of classless unsportsmanlike behaviour are behind us? I agree with Moranis' takeaway

Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2022, 07:13:14 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Could not care less.

Some on this site have no issues trying to recruit friends of Celtic players that are on other teams, but heavens to bid a Celtic take a picture with a friend or mention they are friends with a player on another team after losing to them or after that player left the Celtics in a not so great way.

Tatum friends with Beal....good. Tatum friends with Kyrie or Dray....bad.

The hypocrisy is ridiculous.

Tatum has friends throughout the league. After the season is over, who gives a rat's ass who he hangs with or takes a picture with? They are his friends. What is he supposed to do, tell his friends who are players on other teams that he can't be friends with them or be seen in a picture with them because some Celtic fanatics won't like it or will get all butt hurt about it? Demanding that of Celtic players is beyond the pale of immature ridiculousness.

Re: Tatum/Draymond picture
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2022, 11:57:35 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Awesome. Hang out with one of the guys you just lost to. I've been saying that Tatum will leave the Celtics for the Lakers, but maybe he'll leave for the Warriors instead, á la KD ("If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!").
It's pretty funny how much more petty fans are than players

After the awful Finals Tatum just had, I think he should be burning with a passion for a rematch and a shot at revenge, not hanging out with one of the guys who just whooped him and his team. But maybe that’s just me.
They are not remotely close to mutually exclusive. Weird that you think they are

I don't think it's weird at all. Seems to me like it would be very difficult to maintain a high level of focus on a professional goal while hanging out with one of the main individuals who just kept you from reaching that goal and could very well be in the way once again next season. And I think Draymond's a savvy-enough guy to see something like this as an opportunity to get a bit of a psychological edge on one of his chief opponents—you know, get friendly with the guy off the court, so that when they're on the court together, Tatum doesn't see him as 100% "the enemy." Sometimes you need to soften the opponent only a little in order to get the upper hand.
Your opponent is not the enemy.  That line of thinking is everything that is wrong in America these days.

Well, I was thinking only of sports there. In the rest of life, I agree with you.
But in sports, your opponent is not your enemy.  They are your opponent.  Sports are a game.  Nothing more nothing less.  Thinking they are more are how fans become so invested and crazy that they shout horrific things to players, their families, start riots, or worse kill players for own goals or poor play (which we've seen more than once in the world).
I was finally wrong. Boston not only didn't win in 5, but didn't win at all.