Is Shohei having the greatest individual season we've ever seen?

[Moranis]

And I don't just mean baseball, I mean any sport.  He is leading the league in many of the hitting categories (triples, HR's, OPS+, SLG, TB) while also being an ace pitching.

Before this year, 1921 Ruth (he had basically given up pitching, but was so dominant hitting) and 2001 Bonds (the 73 HR season where his OB was .515) were widely regarded as the greatest individual seasons in baseball (if you want a pitcher it is probably Bob Gibson in 1968).  Shohei compares very favorably to both of those seasons given the pitching component even though he wasn't as dominant a hitter he is the best hitter in the game.

In the NBA, no one comes close to Wilt's 50/25 season when he basically played every minute of every game. 

NHL is it basically pick a Gretzy season, though I do think 81-82 is probably the one most people would pick (the 92 goal season).

NFL is so hard because of the positions, but I think Brady in 07 might get the nod. 

So assuming Shohei continues on roughly the same pace, where will this season end up in the pantheon of greatest seasons ever?

[Roy H.]

His OPS isn't in the top 150 seasons ever, and his pitching has been good but not great this season.

There's no credible argument that this is the best season ever in all of sports.  None. 

[Moranis]

His OPS isn't in the top 150 seasons ever, and his pitching has been good but not great this season.

There's no credible argument that this is the best season ever in all of sports.  None.

Of course, he is leading the league in OPS and has a 22 point lead on Freeman in OPS+.  Baseball always goes through ups and downs on that sort of thing.

He is just off a 60 homer pace.

And this is all over the radio and there are more and more articles like this one.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/mvp-shohei-ohtani-greatest-season-sports-history/jfeqczs9n68lxlchtraczlil#:~:text=If%20Ohtani%20manages%20to%20seriously%20threaten%20Judge%27s%20record%2C,the%20new%20greatest%20individual%20season%20in%20sports%20history.

or this one about his month last month

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/insider/story/_/id/37955311/mlb-2023-shohei-ohtani-june-best-month-mlb-history

And there are a whole bunch of articles (as referenced in that sporting news one) about his 2021 being among the best ever and he is having a better season this year.

[ozgod]

For me he's the most compelling player I've ever seen in baseball. What he's been able to do as a two way player is totally new ground. Is he the best hitter ever? No. The best pitcher ever? No. But I don't think anyone's been good enough to be picked as an All-Star either as a pitcher, or as a hitter, while doing both. I don't even know if we would see someone do that again, ever. Certainly in the US young players get forced into a path once they enter college, if they're good hitters and pitchers they are "forced" to drop one of those things because the assumption is that you have to focus all your energies on being good at at least one discipline and not waste your time being a jack of all trades, master of none. I'm not surprised that it was an overseas player who was able to break the mold. Maybe after decades of specialization in our major sports we're going to start to see versatility be valued again, with pitchers that can hit, and vice versa, just like the NBA now has players who can fulfill multiple roles instead of being pigeonholed as a center, or a power forward, or a point guard, or having quarterbacks who can run.

Just a shame that he's playing for a team that can't make use of his (or Trout's) talents 

[boscel33]

It's difficult to compare this to other sports because he pitches and hits (doesn't play the field), even Babe didn't do this for long.  In his dominant pitching days, he didn't hit much, then he became just a hitter and really dominated that.

I'm thinking soccer or hockey may be the spot to find a player like this.  I remember the 2011/12 la Liga season with Real and Barca battling for the title and Ronaldo and Messi putting up stupid numbers for their teams.  Messi I believe had around 70 goals.  For hockey, probably Mario or Gretzky, although in 70, Bobby Orr had a hell of a season for a defenseman!

That said, I might go with 1989 Bo Jackson.  He hit for .256, 32HR, 105 RBI and 26 SB in 135 games then played 11 games in the NFL and ran for 950 yds and 4 TD's.  I know, two different sports, but was great in both.

[Redz]

If we’re going purely based on stats you’d have to take Bonds’ 73 home run season.  That was insane.  Or maybe even the season after where they were intentionally walking him twice a game.  He slugged over a thousand and was on base at a stupid clip.  Too lazy to look up the numbers.

[Moranis]

Bonds best WAR was 11.9.  Ohtani is on pace for a WAR around 11.1.  Ruth topped out at 14.1 in 1923 (he was 12.6 in both 1921 and 1927).  Ruth has the highest WAR of any hitter that anyone has heard of, though Walter Johnson starting in 1912 had 14.3, 16.5, 12.8, and 12.5, which is by far the greatest WAR multi season stretch of any player in history (almost all from pitching but he did end up with 24 HR's on his career and hsd a positive offensive WAR during those seasons).

[Donoghus]

It's so tough to compare across sports.  Then you have team sports versus individual sports.  Another almost apples to oranges comparison. 
 
It's still only July. Who knows.  But seems a bit hyperbolic "caught in the moment" to me.

[Roy H.]

It's so tough to compare across sports.  Then you have team sports versus individual sports.  Another almost apples to oranges comparison. 
 
It's still only July. Who knows.  But seems a bit hyperbolic "caught in the moment" to me.

It is, but let's concede that SO has the best baseball season of all-time (which I strongly disagree with).

How is his season better than, say, Jordan's 1988 (MVP, DPOY), or any of the years in which he won a title, MVP, and First-Team All-Defense?

How is his season better than any season of Bobby Orr's between 1970 and 1972, when he was winning MVPs, playoff MVPs, Stanley Cups and Norris Trophies?

I get it:  SO is doing something that only one other player in the history of his sport has dominated at.  But, throughout sports history, there have been numerous two-way athletes that have been difference makers both offensively and defensively.  To declare SO's season to be the best ever, I'd want to see "best ever" types of stats, or at least impact.  Instead, SO has shown that he's an elite hitter and good pitcher.  I'd call him more unique than I would the best to ever do it in any sport.

[PAOBoston]

I think he’s the best player I have ever watched in my lifetime. He’s a great hitter. He’s a great pitcher. It’s truly fun to watch him do both. I watch zero baseball now but tuned into the games vs Angels to watch him play. He’s must watch TV. Can’t really say that about any other baseball players.

[Celtics2021]

It's so tough to compare across sports.  Then you have team sports versus individual sports.  Another almost apples to oranges comparison. 
 
It's still only July. Who knows.  But seems a bit hyperbolic "caught in the moment" to me.

It is, but let's concede that SO has the best baseball season of all-time (which I strongly disagree with).

How is his season better than, say, Jordan's 1988 (MVP, DPOY), or any of the years in which he won a title, MVP, and First-Team All-Defense?

How is his season better than any season of Bobby Orr's between 1970 and 1972, when he was winning MVPs, playoff MVPs, Stanley Cups and Norris Trophies?

I get it:  SO is doing something that only one other player in the history of his sport has dominated at.  But, throughout sports history, there have been numerous two-way athletes that have been difference makers both offensively and defensively.  To declare SO's season to be the best ever, I'd want to see "best ever" types of stats, or at least impact.  Instead, SO has shown that he's an elite hitter and good pitcher.  I'd call him more unique than I would the best to ever do it in any sport.

I think you just can’t compare across sports.  Two-way stars on basketball, where you don’t leave the court and are expected to contribute on both ends, are so so different from baseball, where there is a rule saying pitchers don’t have to hit.  Ohtani is literally doing something that hasn’t been done in the modern era of his sport.  Comparing that to basketball, where stars that alter the game and both ends are a feature of virtually every title contending team ignores how difficult it is to do what Ohtani is doing.  And at the same time, how do you say if the best basketball season was better than this?  There’s no way to measure.

Maybe if you had a quarterback who suited up at linebacker, that would be more comparable.  Or a goalie in hockey who also laced up at center some nights.

But to your original point, it’s arguable whether Ohtani is even having the best season in his sport, or even his own career.  It’s definitely a bit hyperbolic to make this argument in July.

[kraidstar]

If we’re going purely based on stats you’d have to take Bonds’ 73 home run season.  That was insane.  Or maybe even the season after where they were intentionally walking him twice a game.  He slugged over a thousand and was on base at a stupid clip.  Too lazy to look up the numbers.

He was so flagrantly jacked on roids that those numbers are pretty irrelevant to me.

[Roy H.]

If we’re going purely based on stats you’d have to take Bonds’ 73 home run season.  That was insane.  Or maybe even the season after where they were intentionally walking him twice a game.  He slugged over a thousand and was on base at a stupid clip.  Too lazy to look up the numbers.

He was so flagrantly jacked on roids that those numbers are pretty irrelevant to me.

It's a tangent, but I still tip my cap to Bonds for the impressiveness of the feat, even while cheating.  The fact is, *a lot* of people were cheating, and Bonds stood head and shoulders above them, even though he was past his prime.  And, there's a narrative that all Bonds was doing was leveling the playing field after becoming disenchanted by seeing other, lesser cheaters dominating the sport and making him look less impressive by comparison.

And also, I can't cognitively distort my thinking enough to condemn Bonds, but still support guys like Clemens and Papi. 

[green_bballers13]

It's so tough to compare across sports.  Then you have team sports versus individual sports.  Another almost apples to oranges comparison. 
 
It's still only July. Who knows.  But seems a bit hyperbolic "caught in the moment" to me.

It is, but let's concede that SO has the best baseball season of all-time (which I strongly disagree with).

How is his season better than, say, Jordan's 1988 (MVP, DPOY), or any of the years in which he won a title, MVP, and First-Team All-Defense?

How is his season better than any season of Bobby Orr's between 1970 and 1972, when he was winning MVPs, playoff MVPs, Stanley Cups and Norris Trophies?

I get it:  SO is doing something that only one other player in the history of his sport has dominated at.  But, throughout sports history, there have been numerous two-way athletes that have been difference makers both offensively and defensively.  To declare SO's season to be the best ever, I'd want to see "best ever" types of stats, or at least impact.  Instead, SO has shown that he's an elite hitter and good pitcher.  I'd call him more unique than I would the best to ever do it in any sport.

This reminds me of Moranis calling Jaylen Brown a "fine player". Have you watched Ohtani on TV or in person? He is a great pitcher, and a great hitter. He's the best player in MLB right now. I agree- we shouldn't compare SO to Ruth, because his team needs to get to the playoffs, let alone win multiple rings.

It's not an insult to Ruth to admit that Ohtani is great.

[green_bballers13]

If we’re going purely based on stats you’d have to take Bonds’ 73 home run season.  That was insane.  Or maybe even the season after where they were intentionally walking him twice a game.  He slugged over a thousand and was on base at a stupid clip.  Too lazy to look up the numbers.

He was so flagrantly jacked on roids that those numbers are pretty irrelevant to me.

It's a tangent, but I still tip my cap to Bonds for the impressiveness of the feat, even while cheating.  The fact is, *a lot* of people were cheating, and Bonds stood head and shoulders above them, even though he was past his prime.  And, there's a narrative that all Bonds was doing was leveling the playing field after becoming disenchanted by seeing other, lesser cheaters dominating the sport and making him look less impressive by comparison.

And also, I can't cognitively distort my thinking enough to condemn Bonds, but still support guys like Clemens and Papi.

Agree. I had so much fun watching Manny and Papi. I'm not going to clench my pearls when people state that they cheated (they did). I also had fun watching Bonds from afar. He's the greatest hitter that I've ever seen on TV or in person. The steroid situation is not black and white. We don't know who was clean, though I think we know who was dirty.