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Around the NBA / Re: Where Does Steph Curry Rank Among Guards?
« Last post by Who on Today at 01:44:08 AM »
I was looking at Steph's stats last night when I saw he had just turned 36 years old. Another key indicator of that physical decline was apparent in his stat line.

Steph once led the league in steals. He had multiple seasons among the league leaders (3 yrs top 5 in steals) and was regularly in the top 20 (7 years) for his first 9 seasons. Since then his steals, have yo-yoed between 1.0 to 1.3spg. It went down to 0.9spg last year and down to 0.7spg this year.

He is not making the hustle plays he used to make.

His rebounding is the lowest in about 6-7 years despite GSW playing terrible rebounding lineups where Steph is asked to contribute more.

He is largely a non-entity on defense. What I mean is he is sound positionally and in the right place but not able to make those extra effort plays anymore. He can only guard smaller spaces. He is older. Doesn't move as well. And as a 6-2 guard, those deflections and steals helped him be more useful on defense and make up for his lack of size. Now he doesn't have that anymore.

People focus on his improved strength and one-on-ones but I think his active team defense was more valuable to the Warriors in the past than this.

It has made Steph even more of an offense-only player. I always thought he didn't get enough credit for his defense & rebounding. Not that he was a high end one but he was a lot scrappier than he got credit for. He is not that anymore. He is more reliant than ever on his scoring.

He is used less as a ball-handler and passer than ever which makes his offense even more reliant on scoring. More one dimensional than ever before. And he has always been a streaky offensive player because so much of his offense is generated from long distance shooting which is the most variable type of offense.
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Around the NBA / Where Does Steph Curry Rank Among Guards?
« Last post by Who on Today at 01:44:01 AM »
I was thinking about the Golden State loss to Sacramento in the play-in the other night, just where does Steph rank today among his competitors at the guard position?

He has clearly declined. I wrote a little about what I saw. I'll re-post that comment in the first comment below.


So I see Steph's main competitors as:

PGs - Jalen Brunson, Tyrese Haliburton, De'Aaron Fox 
SGs - SGA, Anthony Edwards, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell

Others

PGs - Trae Young, Kyrie Irving, Jamal Murray, Damian Lillard, Tyrese Maxey, Darius Garland, Ja Morant
SGs - James Harden, Desmond Bane, LaMelo Ball



So I would put at least 5 if not all 7 of those main competitors ahead of Steph at this point. I don't think any of the others measure up.

I did not include Luka Doncic as a guard. Your choice if you want to include him or not.

I feel like SGA & Anthony Edwards are certainly ahead of Steph. Just bigger and more dynamic. I am inclined to lean the same way with Devin Booker despite viewing him on a similar level as Steph but preferring Booker's superior size and versatility.

I do like Haliburton over Steph. I thought earlier on in the same that Haliburton had replaced Steph as the best PG in the league. Haliburton trailed off a bit since then. Still, I'd give him the nod. I love Haliburton's passing. I also wonder about Jalen Brunson. He has had such a dominant season. I have a tough time putting Steph ahead of him. Then there is Donovan Mitchell. A better one-on-one creator vs Steph the better off-ball creator. I am leaning Mitchell.

I was surprised watching that Kings game and not feeling like Steph was an advantage over D Fox. Now Steph had a bad game but I liked Fox to play him tough regardless. I feel those two are very close in ability now. Fox has improved considerably while Steph has declined.

So not only do I no longer see Steph as the best guard in the league, I do not see him as the 2nd or 3rd best either. Not even a top 5 guard in the league. Somewhere around 7th or 8th. A top 10 guard. If you include Luka Doncic as a guard, 8th or 9th among guards.
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Around the NBA / Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Last post by 86MaxwellSmart on Today at 12:15:09 AM »
I predict Knicks 4-0..or 4-1 ...Philly is toast.
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Celtics Talk / Re: NBA First Team: Tatum or Edwards?
« Last post by celticsclay on Yesterday at 11:30:23 PM »
Not only did Jayson Tatum fall out of the MVP race but I think its highly likely he falls out of the first team all nba race, I think he’s becoming one of the more hated and disrespected players in the game and while I’m a big fan of his unfortunately some it’s warranted. He’s a really good player, nothing more….hopefully he proves me wrong this postseason because imo that’s what’s holding us from a championship

He's a top-five player, particularly when you factor in defense.
Is he?  I mean it seems pretty clear that he is behind Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and SGA at least at this point.  And I think most people would have a hard time calling him a better player than Embiid (obviously he is much healthier than Joel), which makes him no better than 6th.  Then you still have the older guys like Curry, Durant, and Kawhi.  Tatum was definitely trending towards clear top 5, but I think he hit the wall and I'm not sure he is getting over it.  A strong consistent and deep playoff run could certainly swing that tide back some though, so let's all hope that happens.

He's a top-five player this year.  Defense, durability and winning matter.
He absolutely should be on the 1st Team All NBA, but that is not the same thing as a top-five player.

Given Embid missed half the season you can’t say he was better than Tatum this year. Given Embid now has another injury under his belt and turns 31 next year it’s unclear if we have already seen the best of him. Curry is definitely not in the conversation with Tatum right now, if he was they wouldn’t be in Cancun right now. his defense and play making have declined a lot. Leonard put up a few months were he was good this year, but he is injured again and not really in the convo. Durant just isn’t either though his peak is similar, he just can’t bring it ever game any more. So at worst he is 6th right now. But could very well be 5th this year.
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Celtics Talk / Re: NBA First Team: Tatum or Edwards?
« Last post by Moranis on Yesterday at 11:25:15 PM »
Not only did Jayson Tatum fall out of the MVP race but I think its highly likely he falls out of the first team all nba race, I think he’s becoming one of the more hated and disrespected players in the game and while I’m a big fan of his unfortunately some it’s warranted. He’s a really good player, nothing more….hopefully he proves me wrong this postseason because imo that’s what’s holding us from a championship

He's a top-five player, particularly when you factor in defense.
Is he?  I mean it seems pretty clear that he is behind Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and SGA at least at this point.  And I think most people would have a hard time calling him a better player than Embiid (obviously he is much healthier than Joel), which makes him no better than 6th.  Then you still have the older guys like Curry, Durant, and Kawhi.  Tatum was definitely trending towards clear top 5, but I think he hit the wall and I'm not sure he is getting over it.  A strong consistent and deep playoff run could certainly swing that tide back some though, so let's all hope that happens.

He's a top-five player this year.  Defense, durability and winning matter.
He absolutely should be on the 1st Team All NBA, but that is not the same thing as a top-five player.
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Around the NBA / Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Last post by celticsclay on Yesterday at 11:22:51 PM »
Idk if it's wise to say this and give NYK even more motivation...

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1780983951307235781?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Quote
Paul Reed says he wanted to play the Knicks instead of the Celtics

“We wanted the Knicks matchup, that's the easier team.” 👀

(Via
@RunItBackFDTV)

If PHI doesn't play better than they did vs. MIA, they aren't going anywhere in any case.  I don't know what happened to PHI.  They were playing very well.  Won their last 8 games.  I expected Embiid to wear down and fade at some point in the playoffs, but not in the play-in round.  NYK is the one that may end up happy with this match up.
The Sixers should be able to beat NYK.  It is a 7-game series not a 1 game play in.
 Who does NYK have besides Brunson?  If the Sixers hadn't shot so poorly and turned the ball over so much in the 1st half they would have won the game going away. 

Embiid did end up playing 38 minutes and played better in the 4th.  However he clearly isn't close to 100% and the injury scare in the Magic game set him back.  Other than maybe for the 1st 2 season he missed due to injury I don't recall him talking much about the difficulty physically and mentally recovering from an injury.  He needs to get through a few more games without another injury scare and maybe the mentality part gets sorted out.   

I am leaning towards NY.

Brunson will be a massive mismatch for them. Maxey is too small to check him. Hield and Lowry too slow. Melton is the only guy I like covering him. Then you have Embiid who couldn't show at all on the perimeter the other night. Brunson is going to have huge opportunities attacking Embiid in the PnR. I think Brunson will feast in that series.

Maxey needs to step up. He was poor the other night. He needs to take on more offensive responsibility with Embiid struggling. For Philly to win, he has to be great.

Knicks also have a bunch of good defenders and a decent couple of big men to slightly annoy Embid in Robinson and hartenstein. Bogs can also get hot. Let’s not pretend the 76ers or Embid looked good against the heat with an injured butler
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Around the NBA / Re: NBA Season 2023-24
« Last post by celticsclay on Yesterday at 11:20:26 PM »
Get a load of this joker  ::)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10117485-ben-simmons-rumors-nets-star-loves-the-nba-lifestyle-too-much-to-consider-retiring

Quote
Ben Simmons Rumors: Nets Star 'Loves the NBA Lifestyle Too Much' to Consider Retiring

Easily the worst contract in the league. He'll retire as soon as the contract ends. Still comical people suggested trading Jaylen for him or Smart + additional assets. I doubt he's even seriously hurt, he's just using that to justify "rehab" until the contract runs out. He recently posted "rehab" pics as well, made me roll my eyes hard

As the article points out it’s kind of unlikely he is going to get more than a vet minimum without really showing something next year. Obviously still amazing money for most of us but a far cry from his lifestyle the last 4 years
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Celtics Talk / Re: Celtics 2024 Playoff Run Thread
« Last post by SparzWizard on Yesterday at 10:33:36 PM »
Knock on wood for our own health, but the path to the Finals really can't be this easier. Miami without Jimmy Butler or Chicago first round. Then Cleveland or Orlando, great teams but not *that* elite yet. Then probably NY/IND/MIL/PHI although two of those teams are also dealing with key injuries including Giannis and a hobbled Embiid.

It'd be a colossal failure if they don't make the Finals. The only possible excuse I could give is, if god forbid like two of Jaylen/Porzingis/Tatum go down to very serious injury but outside of that, come on now. It's right there for them. Most of the East is on crutches.

You know who's getting fired immediately if they don't make the Finals.
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Celtics Talk / Re: NBA First Team: Tatum or Edwards?
« Last post by Roy H. on Yesterday at 09:41:55 PM »
Not only did Jayson Tatum fall out of the MVP race but I think its highly likely he falls out of the first team all nba race, I think he’s becoming one of the more hated and disrespected players in the game and while I’m a big fan of his unfortunately some it’s warranted. He’s a really good player, nothing more….hopefully he proves me wrong this postseason because imo that’s what’s holding us from a championship

He's a top-five player, particularly when you factor in defense.
Is he?  I mean it seems pretty clear that he is behind Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and SGA at least at this point.  And I think most people would have a hard time calling him a better player than Embiid (obviously he is much healthier than Joel), which makes him no better than 6th.  Then you still have the older guys like Curry, Durant, and Kawhi.  Tatum was definitely trending towards clear top 5, but I think he hit the wall and I'm not sure he is getting over it.  A strong consistent and deep playoff run could certainly swing that tide back some though, so let's all hope that happens.

He's a top-five player this year.  Defense, durability and winning matter.
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Celtics Talk / Re: NBA First Team: Tatum or Edwards?
« Last post by Moranis on Yesterday at 09:31:53 PM »
Not only did Jayson Tatum fall out of the MVP race but I think its highly likely he falls out of the first team all nba race, I think he’s becoming one of the more hated and disrespected players in the game and while I’m a big fan of his unfortunately some it’s warranted. He’s a really good player, nothing more….hopefully he proves me wrong this postseason because imo that’s what’s holding us from a championship

He's a top-five player, particularly when you factor in defense.
Is he?  I mean it seems pretty clear that he is behind Jokic, Giannis, Luka, and SGA at least at this point.  And I think most people would have a hard time calling him a better player than Embiid (obviously he is much healthier than Joel), which makes him no better than 6th.  Then you still have the older guys like Curry, Durant, and Kawhi.  Tatum was definitely trending towards clear top 5, but I think he hit the wall and I'm not sure he is getting over it.  A strong consistent and deep playoff run could certainly swing that tide back some though, so let's all hope that happens.
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