Author Topic: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy  (Read 20240 times)

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Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #90 on: November 11, 2019, 11:09:21 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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I want to see more of Timelord on the court. Sadly Brad didn’t play him at all in the 4th quarter tonight

I mentioned this to a friend post-match (Stevens talking up Williams then giving him 17 minutes).

I don't think the style of game was best for TL. Dallas didn't do much in the paint apart from when Doncic penetrated. He appeared to make some mistakes and we were doing a lot of double teaming tonight because of Doncic.

Plus, Theis played really well.

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #91 on: November 11, 2019, 11:20:51 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Bird was never an off the ball player. Quite the contrary. Gotta remember, back then it was strictly man defense and during the Celtics half court offense, it was quite common to give Bird the ball on one side of the court and have everyone else on the other side of the court. Bird then worked the guy guarding him for some sort of shot or pass to someone cutting.

You can't do that anymore.

Yes, Bird didn't always bring the ball up the court, but did at times. The thing is if he didn't bring the ball up himself, he was the first guy getting passed to in the half court sets so that he could initiate and run the offense.

Yes, Bird was also exceptional off ball but he wasn't an off ball player.
He was off ball compared to his contemporaries - every perimeter player who had a Bird-level impact on offense (which is GOAT level) were ball dominant engines. Obviously Bird also handled the ball a bit (as you have noted), but the main mode of attack for him was to make a quick decision after catching the ball (even if he was the designated guy to catch the ball in half court sets). I don't think you can get any more off ball than that for a superstar, his method of initiating an offense was as far away as on ball as you can get for a player who had to shoulder such a heavy offensive load. I'd describe his style of play as mainly off ball with how little time he actually used in his touches. TP for actually giving examples of how Bird played though.
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Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #92 on: November 12, 2019, 12:26:19 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Bird was never an off the ball player. Quite the contrary. Gotta remember, back then it was strictly man defense and during the Celtics half court offense, it was quite common to give Bird the ball on one side of the court and have everyone else on the other side of the court. Bird then worked the guy guarding him for some sort of shot or pass to someone cutting.

You can't do that anymore.

Yes, Bird didn't always bring the ball up the court, but did at times. The thing is if he didn't bring the ball up himself, he was the first guy getting passed to in the half court sets so that he could initiate and run the offense.

Yes, Bird was also exceptional off ball but he wasn't an off ball player.
He was off ball compared to his contemporaries - every perimeter player who had a Bird-level impact on offense (which is GOAT level) were ball dominant engines. Obviously Bird also handled the ball a bit (as you have noted), but the main mode of attack for him was to make a quick decision after catching the ball (even if he was the designated guy to catch the ball in half court sets). I don't think you can get any more off ball than that for a superstar, his method of initiating an offense was as far away as on ball as you can get for a player who had to shoulder such a heavy offensive load. I'd describe his style of play as mainly off ball with how little time he actually used in his touches. TP for actually giving examples of how Bird played though.
I watched every single game Bird played and I am sorry but you aren't describing Larry Bird.

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #93 on: November 12, 2019, 12:51:08 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Bird was never an off the ball player. Quite the contrary. Gotta remember, back then it was strictly man defense and during the Celtics half court offense, it was quite common to give Bird the ball on one side of the court and have everyone else on the other side of the court. Bird then worked the guy guarding him for some sort of shot or pass to someone cutting.

You can't do that anymore.

Yes, Bird didn't always bring the ball up the court, but did at times. The thing is if he didn't bring the ball up himself, he was the first guy getting passed to in the half court sets so that he could initiate and run the offense.

Yes, Bird was also exceptional off ball but he wasn't an off ball player.
He was off ball compared to his contemporaries - every perimeter player who had a Bird-level impact on offense (which is GOAT level) were ball dominant engines. Obviously Bird also handled the ball a bit (as you have noted), but the main mode of attack for him was to make a quick decision after catching the ball (even if he was the designated guy to catch the ball in half court sets). I don't think you can get any more off ball than that for a superstar, his method of initiating an offense was as far away as on ball as you can get for a player who had to shoulder such a heavy offensive load. I'd describe his style of play as mainly off ball with how little time he actually used in his touches. TP for actually giving examples of how Bird played though.
I watched every single game Bird played and I am sorry but you aren't describing Larry Bird.
Sure.
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Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #94 on: November 12, 2019, 08:30:03 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Back to Timelord, maybe?

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #95 on: November 12, 2019, 08:58:21 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Back to Timelord, maybe?
Yeah, I think we went off subject enough. Best to get back to Williams.

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #96 on: November 12, 2019, 09:22:29 AM »

Offline gpap

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I want to see more of Timelord on the court. Sadly Brad didn’t play him at all in the 4th quarter tonight

I mentioned this to a friend post-match (Stevens talking up Williams then giving him 17 minutes).

I don't think the style of game was best for TL. Dallas didn't do much in the paint apart from when Doncic penetrated. He appeared to make some mistakes and we were doing a lot of double teaming tonight because of Doncic.

Plus, Theis played really well.

That's just it. There was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Theis was on the bench too. I mean seriously, why were Timelord, Theis and Kanter all on the bench at the same time? I didn't like the way Stevens coach last night at all. It was one of those wins where I was happy for the players but also felt that could've just as easily been a loss.

Also, I disagree with the style of the game not dictating the need for a big. Dallas had some size with Kleber, Powell and Porzingis. I think even Doncic at one point was taller than any player on the floor for the Celts. Wake up Brad!!

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #97 on: November 12, 2019, 09:26:55 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I want to see more of Timelord on the court. Sadly Brad didn’t play him at all in the 4th quarter tonight

I mentioned this to a friend post-match (Stevens talking up Williams then giving him 17 minutes).

I don't think the style of game was best for TL. Dallas didn't do much in the paint apart from when Doncic penetrated. He appeared to make some mistakes and we were doing a lot of double teaming tonight because of Doncic.

Plus, Theis played really well.

That's just it. There was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Theis was on the bench too. I mean seriously, why were Timelord, Theis and Kanter all on the bench at the same time? I didn't like the way Stevens coach last night at all. It was one of those wins where I was happy for the players but also felt that could've just as easily been a loss.

Also, I disagree with the style of the game not dictating the need for a big. Dallas had some size with Kleber, Powell and Porzingis. I think even Doncic at one point was taller than any player on the floor for the Celts. Wake up Brad!!
Theis was getting his usual rotation minutes in the second half and Timelord had been giving up easy PnR dunks and corner threes during his minutes earlier in the game.

So once Porzingis was out Brad went smaller in the 4th until the closing stretch with Theis. Timelord is tall and does good things overall this year but he got carved up this game by Luka.

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #98 on: November 12, 2019, 09:34:03 AM »

Offline gpap

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I want to see more of Timelord on the court. Sadly Brad didn’t play him at all in the 4th quarter tonight

I mentioned this to a friend post-match (Stevens talking up Williams then giving him 17 minutes).

I don't think the style of game was best for TL. Dallas didn't do much in the paint apart from when Doncic penetrated. He appeared to make some mistakes and we were doing a lot of double teaming tonight because of Doncic.

Plus, Theis played really well.

That's just it. There was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Theis was on the bench too. I mean seriously, why were Timelord, Theis and Kanter all on the bench at the same time? I didn't like the way Stevens coach last night at all. It was one of those wins where I was happy for the players but also felt that could've just as easily been a loss.

Also, I disagree with the style of the game not dictating the need for a big. Dallas had some size with Kleber, Powell and Porzingis. I think even Doncic at one point was taller than any player on the floor for the Celts. Wake up Brad!!
Theis was getting his usual rotation minutes in the second half and Timelord had been giving up easy PnR dunks and corner threes during his minutes earlier in the game.

So once Porzingis was out Brad went smaller in the 4th until the closing stretch with Theis. Timelord is tall and does good things overall this year but he got carved up this game by Luka.

All I know is in the 1st half (right up until the final 3 minutes or so when we let off the pedal and Dallas started to chip away), the Celts were containing Doncic (despite his 10 first half points) and Timelord did a decent job on both ends of the floor.

Also, how is he going to improve if Brad doesn't play him in crucial situations? I'm not saying to risk losing at the risk of making Robert a better player but at the same time, the kid deserves a chance.

Next time if Brad coaches the same way, Dallas is going to carve us up (IMO)

PS..why did Kanter only play for a few minutes in the 1st half?

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #99 on: November 12, 2019, 09:42:29 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I want to see more of Timelord on the court. Sadly Brad didn’t play him at all in the 4th quarter tonight

I mentioned this to a friend post-match (Stevens talking up Williams then giving him 17 minutes).

I don't think the style of game was best for TL. Dallas didn't do much in the paint apart from when Doncic penetrated. He appeared to make some mistakes and we were doing a lot of double teaming tonight because of Doncic.

Plus, Theis played really well.

That's just it. There was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Theis was on the bench too. I mean seriously, why were Timelord, Theis and Kanter all on the bench at the same time? I didn't like the way Stevens coach last night at all. It was one of those wins where I was happy for the players but also felt that could've just as easily been a loss.

Also, I disagree with the style of the game not dictating the need for a big. Dallas had some size with Kleber, Powell and Porzingis. I think even Doncic at one point was taller than any player on the floor for the Celts. Wake up Brad!!
Theis was getting his usual rotation minutes in the second half and Timelord had been giving up easy PnR dunks and corner threes during his minutes earlier in the game.

So once Porzingis was out Brad went smaller in the 4th until the closing stretch with Theis. Timelord is tall and does good things overall this year but he got carved up this game by Luka.

All I know is in the 1st half (right up until the final 3 minutes or so when we let off the pedal and Dallas started to chip away), the Celts were containing Doncic (despite his 10 first half points) and Timelord did a decent job on both ends of the floor.
Timelord was the C during that stretch where they tied it! (Theis was getting his finger looked at in the locker room) Doncic got cooking because he figured out how to abuse Timelord in the PnR.

He then cooked him in the PnR in the 3rd quarter before Carlisle took him out for some rest to start the 4th quarter.

I get that Robert Williams needs minutes to develop but he's getting those. He played his usually 7 minute stints in both halves and wasn't playing well enough to warrant more.

As for Kanter, I think Brad just trust Theis and Timelord more especially against a team that is so good in the PnR like the Mavericks.

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #100 on: November 12, 2019, 09:44:16 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I want to see more of Timelord on the court. Sadly Brad didn’t play him at all in the 4th quarter tonight

I mentioned this to a friend post-match (Stevens talking up Williams then giving him 17 minutes).

I don't think the style of game was best for TL. Dallas didn't do much in the paint apart from when Doncic penetrated. He appeared to make some mistakes and we were doing a lot of double teaming tonight because of Doncic.

Plus, Theis played really well.

That's just it. There was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Theis was on the bench too. I mean seriously, why were Timelord, Theis and Kanter all on the bench at the same time? I didn't like the way Stevens coach last night at all. It was one of those wins where I was happy for the players but also felt that could've just as easily been a loss.

Also, I disagree with the style of the game not dictating the need for a big. Dallas had some size with Kleber, Powell and Porzingis. I think even Doncic at one point was taller than any player on the floor for the Celts. Wake up Brad!!
Theis was getting his usual rotation minutes in the second half and Timelord had been giving up easy PnR dunks and corner threes during his minutes earlier in the game.

So once Porzingis was out Brad went smaller in the 4th until the closing stretch with Theis. Timelord is tall and does good things overall this year but he got carved up this game by Luka.

All I know is in the 1st half (right up until the final 3 minutes or so when we let off the pedal and Dallas started to chip away), the Celts were containing Doncic (despite his 10 first half points) and Timelord did a decent job on both ends of the floor.

Also, how is he going to improve if Brad doesn't play him in crucial situations? I'm not saying to risk losing at the risk of making Robert a better player but at the same time, the kid deserves a chance.

Next time if Brad coaches the same way, Dallas is going to carve us up (IMO)

PS..why did Kanter only play for a few minutes in the 1st half?
Williams looked good on offense but I disagree that he did a decent job on the defensive end. I think he struggled with the game plan Brad had to double and contain Doncic by having the center defender run off his man for quick doubles.

Stevens wanted his center playing like Theis played last night and Williams couldn't do it. A win is more important than letting Timelord play poorly so he can learn from his mistakes. Williams had some minutes and struggled with the very different game plan put in place defensively.

That's okay. Timelord is getting some run and will learn even from that. There is no reason to force feed him minutes. We saw the negative effects force feeding someone minutes that hasn't earned them can have on a team as a whole last year with Hayward.

I trust Brad on this one.

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #101 on: November 12, 2019, 09:50:25 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I want to see more of Timelord on the court. Sadly Brad didn’t play him at all in the 4th quarter tonight

I mentioned this to a friend post-match (Stevens talking up Williams then giving him 17 minutes).

I don't think the style of game was best for TL. Dallas didn't do much in the paint apart from when Doncic penetrated. He appeared to make some mistakes and we were doing a lot of double teaming tonight because of Doncic.

Plus, Theis played really well.

That's just it. There was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Theis was on the bench too. I mean seriously, why were Timelord, Theis and Kanter all on the bench at the same time? I didn't like the way Stevens coach last night at all. It was one of those wins where I was happy for the players but also felt that could've just as easily been a loss.

Also, I disagree with the style of the game not dictating the need for a big. Dallas had some size with Kleber, Powell and Porzingis. I think even Doncic at one point was taller than any player on the floor for the Celts. Wake up Brad!!

I'm sure many fan bases in the NBA would be happy to quibble over a coach's rotation after a win against a Western conference playoff team.

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2019, 09:57:31 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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I want to see more of Timelord on the court. Sadly Brad didn’t play him at all in the 4th quarter tonight

I mentioned this to a friend post-match (Stevens talking up Williams then giving him 17 minutes).

I don't think the style of game was best for TL. Dallas didn't do much in the paint apart from when Doncic penetrated. He appeared to make some mistakes and we were doing a lot of double teaming tonight because of Doncic.

Plus, Theis played really well.

That's just it. There was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Theis was on the bench too. I mean seriously, why were Timelord, Theis and Kanter all on the bench at the same time? I didn't like the way Stevens coach last night at all. It was one of those wins where I was happy for the players but also felt that could've just as easily been a loss.

Also, I disagree with the style of the game not dictating the need for a big. Dallas had some size with Kleber, Powell and Porzingis. I think even Doncic at one point was taller than any player on the floor for the Celts. Wake up Brad!!
I would agree. I think Brad loves GW's offensive versatility, but the fact is, Grant is really struggling right now. He can't buy a shot, and for his genius with ball movement and ability to screen, he's not an offensive threat other than cleaning up missed shots, and defensively is a liability if there's anything resembling a good big man on the floor for the opponent.

I would say the same about Semi. He didn't get many minutes last night, but even so, Semi is so limited on offense, it's like we're playing 4 on 5. And on a night I thought he should shorten his bench, Brad emptied it like a preseason game.

But then, we now have a 2 game lead in the loss column in what was expected to be a building season, so who am I to question Brad?

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2019, 10:02:03 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Brad Stevens has never benched a guy because he couldn't make a shot. Never. That's good coaching. He plays guys who play the right way, do the little things, and are unselfish on the court. Shooting comes and goes, especially for young players.

It's why Marcus Smart has developed into the play he has. Other coaches, and many fans, would have benched him because of his shooting his first few years. Same with Ojeleye. Same with Brown last year.

That instill confidence in the player and helps them develop good habits even when their shot isn't falling. We will need a confident Grant Williams this year at some point. You don't get that by benching him.

Re: Timelord highlights vs Spurs - feeling giddy
« Reply #104 on: November 12, 2019, 10:05:32 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Brad Stevens has never benched a guy because he couldn't make a shot. Never. That's good coaching. He plays guys who play the right way, do the little things, and are unselfish on the court. Shooting comes and goes, especially for young players.

It's why Marcus Smart has developed into the play he has. Other coaches, and many fans, would have benched him because of his shooting his first few years. Same with Ojeleye. Same with Brown last year.

That instill confidence in the player and helps them develop good habits even when their shot isn't falling. We will need a confident Grant Williams this year at some point. You don't get that by benching him.
Brown was literally benched and marginalised by Stevens because of his cold start until Smart got injured and he started cooking lol. But yeah I generally agree with your statement.
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