Full Basketball HOF Class of '24 Announced

[Who]

I wonder if Vince gets a bump for making basketball popular in Canada. Like the Yao Ming effect on China. Only slightly different. So many guys have come out of the Toronto area and gone on to the NBA citing Vince as one their heros growing up. Vince established the Raptors in Toronto while the Vancouver Grizzlies failed and left Canada for Memphis.

I also wonder whether Stephon Marbury one day gets a similar bump for his effect in Chinese basketball.

I think you ate over remembering Vince's popularity. He was certainly popular, but fa e of the league from a guy that never made the 1st Team, never finished higher than 10th in mvp voting, etc. 

Found an article with the top jersey seller every year back to 2001.  That was Kobe. I'd be surprised if Vince was top before then (I recall Iverson was everywhere back then, as an example), but I didn't find it in my quick search.  Same article had the top 20  starting in 02-03 and Vince was 20th (Kobe, AI, TMac, Jordan (wizards), and Pierce were top 5). At his heyday with Nets he was 8th, 9th, and 10th.

Another gauge to look at is All-Star voting.

Vince Carter led the league in votes for '00, '01, '02, '04.  I gotta think he would have led the league in '99 too had there been an All-Star game.

Vince was the brightest star of those wings. Brighter than Kobe who was still in Shaq's shadow when Vince started to break out. Then T-Mac started to breakout but that was after Vince was established. Both overtook Vince sometime in 2002 or 2003.

AI was close to Vince. I don't think he was pushed by the NBA as much as Vince was. Vince clean cut guy. AI had an image problem the NBA didn't like and brought in that dress code in part to deal with him. Still, AI was so popular among fans that he wasn't far behind Vince.

I'd say Vince was the most popular star in the NBA from 1999-2001. Tim Duncan was never the face of the league. KG was in Siberia and not getting out of the first round. Shaq was the other guy but Vince with his athleticism and highlight reel was the biggest show in town. Toronto were selling out road games the way LeBron sold out road games. Everyone wanted to see him. It was an event. Vince was the guy. He was the "next Jordan" and he was backing it up on the court.

[Donoghus]

I wonder if Vince gets a bump for making basketball popular in Canada. Like the Yao Ming effect on China. Only slightly different. So many guys have come out of the Toronto area and gone on to the NBA citing Vince as one their heros growing up. Vince established the Raptors in Toronto while the Vancouver Grizzlies failed and left Canada for Memphis.

I also wonder whether Stephon Marbury one day gets a similar bump for his effect in Chinese basketball.

I think you ate over remembering Vince's popularity. He was certainly popular, but fa e of the league from a guy that never made the 1st Team, never finished higher than 10th in mvp voting, etc. 

Found an article with the top jersey seller every year back to 2001.  That was Kobe. I'd be surprised if Vince was top before then (I recall Iverson was everywhere back then, as an example), but I didn't find it in my quick search.  Same article had the top 20  starting in 02-03 and Vince was 20th (Kobe, AI, TMac, Jordan (wizards), and Pierce were top 5). At his heyday with Nets he was 8th, 9th, and 10th.

Another gauge to look at is All-Star voting.

Vince Carter led the league in votes for '00, '01, '02, '04.  I gotta think he would have led the league in '99 too had there been an All-Star game.

Vince was the brightest star of those wings. Brighter than Kobe who was still in Shaq's shadow when Vince started to break out. Then T-Mac started to breakout but that was after Vince was established. Both overtook Vince sometime in 2002 or 2003.

AI was close to Vince. I don't think he was pushed by the NBA as much as Vince was. Vince clean cut guy. AI had an image problem the NBA didn't like and brought in that dress code in part to deal with him. Still, AI was so popular among fans that he wasn't far behind Vince.

I'd say Vince was the most popular star in the NBA from 1999-2001. Tim Duncan was never the face of the league. KG was in Siberia and not getting out of the first round. Shaq was the other guy but Vince with his athleticism and highlight reel was the biggest show in town. Toronto were selling out road games the way LeBron sold out road games. Everyone wanted to see him. It was an event. Vince was the guy. He was the "next Jordan" and he was backing it up on the court.

That's a tough one.  Post Jordan & pre Lebron, Iverson was big. Real big. Maybe not necessarily in Boston for obvious reasons but Iverson was a big deal. Both as a player and culturally. 

Kobe might've been a sidekick but he was huge too.

[Moranis]

Yao Ming was also the top all star vote getter twice. George Gervin led the league in all star voting when Magic, Bird, and Dr. J (and obviously Kareem and Moses) were in the league. Grant Hill led the league the year the Bulls won 72 games.  I'm not sure how that much that means, I mean Lebron led the league last season before Giannis finally overtook him this year.

To be the face of the league you actually have to be among the people discussed as the best player and that certainly was never Carter.  I mean 0 1st Team All NBA. The year he finished on the 3rd team (his 2nd year), the guards and forwards ahead of him were Payton, Kidd,  Garnett, Duncan and Kobe, Hill, Iverson, and Mailman. The next year he was 2nd Team (i.e. his 3rd year in league) and the 1st team was Iverson, Kidd, Webber, Duncan joining him on 2nd team were Kobe, McGrady, and Garnett.  McGrady basically got away from Vince and almost immediately eclipsed him as a player.

[Neurotic Guy]

Yao Ming was also the top all star vote getter twice. George Gervin led the league in all star voting when Magic, Bird, and Dr. J (and obviously Kareem and Moses) were in the league. Grant Hill led the league the year the Bulls won 72 games.  I'm not sure how that much that means, I mean Lebron led the league last season before Giannis finally overtook him this year.

To be the face of the league you actually have to be among the people discussed as the best player and that certainly was never Carter.  I mean 0 1st Team All NBA. The year he finished on the 3rd team (his 2nd year), the guards and forwards ahead of him were Payton, Kidd,  Garnett, Duncan and Kobe, Hill, Iverson, and Mailman. The next year he was 2nd Team (i.e. his 3rd year in league) and the 1st team was Iverson, Kidd, Webber, Duncan joining him on 2nd team were Kobe, McGrady, and Garnett.  McGrady basically got away from Vince and almost immediately eclipsed him as a player.

Your memory is different from mine.  I can’t say he was THE face of the league, but he was huge. He was doing things athletically that were elite and was scoring from everywhere. An all-star for 8 consecutive seasons, yeah, he was very high on the list.   I’ve always thought he was a likely museum guy. 

Btw, basketballreference.com uses some objective metric to determine HOF probability and Vince’s probability was over 94%.

[Kernewek]

I wonder if Vince gets a bump for making basketball popular in Canada. Like the Yao Ming effect on China. Only slightly different. So many guys have come out of the Toronto area and gone on to the NBA citing Vince as one their heros growing up. Vince established the Raptors in Toronto while the Vancouver Grizzlies failed and left Canada for Memphis.

I also wonder whether Stephon Marbury one day gets a similar bump for his effect in Chinese basketball.

I think you ate over remembering Vince's popularity. He was certainly popular, but fa e of the league from a guy that never made the 1st Team, never finished higher than 10th in mvp voting, etc. 

Found an article with the top jersey seller every year back to 2001.  That was Kobe. I'd be surprised if Vince was top before then (I recall Iverson was everywhere back then, as an example), but I didn't find it in my quick search.  Same article had the top 20  starting in 02-03 and Vince was 20th (Kobe, AI, TMac, Jordan (wizards), and Pierce were top 5). At his heyday with Nets he was 8th, 9th, and 10th.

Another gauge to look at is All-Star voting.

Vince Carter led the league in votes for '00, '01, '02, '04.  I gotta think he would have led the league in '99 too had there been an All-Star game.

Vince was the brightest star of those wings. Brighter than Kobe who was still in Shaq's shadow when Vince started to break out. Then T-Mac started to breakout but that was after Vince was established. Both overtook Vince sometime in 2002 or 2003.

AI was close to Vince. I don't think he was pushed by the NBA as much as Vince was. Vince clean cut guy. AI had an image problem the NBA didn't like and brought in that dress code in part to deal with him. Still, AI was so popular among fans that he wasn't far behind Vince.

I'd say Vince was the most popular star in the NBA from 1999-2001. Tim Duncan was never the face of the league. KG was in Siberia and not getting out of the first round. Shaq was the other guy but Vince with his athleticism and highlight reel was the biggest show in town. Toronto were selling out road games the way LeBron sold out road games. Everyone wanted to see him. It was an event. Vince was the guy. He was the "next Jordan" and he was backing it up on the court.

That's a tough one.  Post Jordan & pre Lebron, Iverson was big. Real big. Maybe not necessarily in Boston for obvious reasons but Iverson was a big deal. Both as a player and culturally. 

Kobe might've been a sidekick but he was huge too.

Iverson was certainly bigger than Carter for the years in question '99-'01. I do think Carter was the 'establishment choice', but there's a reason one of them got a lifetime deal from Reebok and the other is Vince Carter.

[Who]

I don't think Kobe was as big as Vince in 1999-01. He was huge before Vince came into the league and then Vince blew him out of the water in 1999-00. Vince became the heir apparent to MJ over Kobe during this period.

Obviously, this didn't last. Kobe retook top spot over Vince. Probably in 2002 onwards.

[Moranis]

I don't think Kobe was as big as Vince in 1999-01. He was huge before Vince came into the league and then Vince blew him out of the water in 1999-00. Vince became the heir apparent to MJ over Kobe during this period.

Obviously, this didn't last. Kobe retook top spot over Vince. Probably in 2002 onwards.

and yet Kobe was making higher All NBA teams during that stretch.  Vince was certainly popular with fans, but it didn't translate on the court. 

[Donoghus]

Next year is looking even more awful.  First time eligibles include Marc Gasol, JJ Redick, & Jeff Teague.

[bdm860]

Next year is looking even more awful.  First time eligibles include Marc Gasol, JJ Redick, & Jeff Teague.

Ah. so the Marques Johnson, Tom Chambers, Ron Harper class.

[Kernewek]

Next year is looking even more awful.  First time eligibles include Marc Gasol, JJ Redick, & Jeff Teague.

Gasol absolutely deserves it.

[Who]

Next year is looking even more awful.  First time eligibles include Marc Gasol, JJ Redick, & Jeff Teague.

Gasol absolutely deserves it.

Agreed

Similar to Jack Sikma. I was happy when Sikma made it in. Marc Gasol should too.

[bdm860]

I wonder when Maya Moore is going to make it.

She only officially announced her retirement last year, but hasn't played in 6 years.

Sports Illustrated called Moore the "greatest winner in the history of women's basketball".

[Moranis]

Next year is looking even more awful.  First time eligibles include Marc Gasol, JJ Redick, & Jeff Teague.

Gasol absolutely deserves it.

Does he? Probably for international reasons, but not if it was NBA only.

Yes he has the DPOY, but he only made 1 2nd Team All Defense and then 1 1st and 1 2nd Team All NBA.  Just 2 seasons receiving MVP votes.  Just 3 all star games.  His HOF probability is just 4.2%

As a NBA player, Marc Gasol is no where near a HOFer. His international career makes it much more interesting

[Kernewek]

Next year is looking even more awful.  First time eligibles include Marc Gasol, JJ Redick, & Jeff Teague.

Gasol absolutely deserves it.

Does he? Probably for international reasons, but not if it was NBA only.

Yes he has the DPOY, but he only made 1 2nd Team All Defense and then 1 1st and 1 2nd Team All NBA.  Just 2 seasons receiving MVP votes.  Just 3 all star games.  His HOF probability is just 4.2%

As a NBA player, Marc Gasol is no where near a HOFer. His international career makes it much more interesting

A reasonable point, but it's never been an NBA-only Hall.

[Who]

Tracy McGrady made the HoF.

How does Vince measure up relative to McGrady?