I'm kind of disappointed in Tatum as a scorer

[droopdog7]

I basically started the same thread last month, with the gist being that Tatum was no longer a surefire star (nevermind superstar).  That doesn't mean that he won't or can't improve or become a star.  What it does mean is that the praise heaped onto tatum was premature and likely at least somewhat misguided.  He CAN be a great scorer but he has holes that won't easily be fixed (related to play making for others).

But there is a really easy way for me to make the point; Luka Doncic.

Luka is what people thought Tatum was. Not in the similarity to their games, but in the sense that he looks like the real deal potential MVP caliber player (which was praise given to tatum by some Celt fans).  Doncic already has skills that tatum may never have and at a younger age.  In a world where you're measured up against your peers, those two are on different levels.

I don't think this is true.   Tatum has always been consider a premium blue-chip NBA prospect, and very likely to be multi-time All-Star level of player.  And I think he's still seen that way.

But Luka Doncic is something else entirely.  Luka has been drawing comparisons to Lebron in terms of being ridiculously better than any other same age players of their generation.   Lebron was a man playing with boys in high school.  Luka has been a boy playing with men during his 'high school' years.   He is a basketball savant and anybody who has been paying attention to his rocket like rise through various levels of Euro pro basketball has known he is something special.   This is a kid who's future screams 'perennial MVP candidate'.

I don't think Luka represents a fair metric for any other young players.   We don't need Jayson Tatum to be as exceptional as Luka Doncic in order to be a success.  Tatum doesn't need to be a perennial MVP candidate and I don't know of many scouts who seriously ever expected him to be.   There is a lot of room for great success without that expectation.

Paul Pierce was almost never in the MVP conversation during his career.  Usually just on the fringes of it.  His highest finish in the voting was 7th and he otherwise always finished outside the top 10. He never made All-NBA first team -- just multiple 3rd & 2nd teams.  Yet he was a multi-year All-Star and a definite Hall Of Famer long before his career was over.    Ray Allen was a similar level of player.   Multiple year All-Star, a couple of All-NBA 2nd & 3rd teams.  Only a couples appearances on the fringes of MVP considerations (9th was his best finish).   And ultimately, like Paul, a great, HoF player.

I basically started the same thread last month, with the gist being that Tatum was no longer a surefire star (nevermind superstar).  That doesn't mean that he won't or can't improve or become a star.  What it does mean is that the praise heaped onto tatum was premature and likely at least somewhat misguided.  He CAN be a great scorer but he has holes that won't easily be fixed (related to play making for others).

But there is a really easy way for me to make the point; Luka Doncic.

Luka is what people thought Tatum was.  Not in the similarity to their games, but in the sense that he looks like the real deal potential MVP caliber player (which was praise given to tatum by some Celt fans).  Doncic already has skills that tatum may never have and at a younger age.  In a world where you're measured up against your peers, those two are on different levels.

Maybe some people thought of Tatum the way they are thinking now of Luka -- but honestly, I don't know who.   Jayson Tatum is absolutely STILL on the trajectory most had him on.    Early in the season a bomb like last night hurts the season stats, but we are still talking about a 21yo averaging 19.4 and 7.7 boards.  And virtually every stat is trending up career-wise.   As a rookie, hopes were he'd become a perennial all-star and I think that is still in play.  He's a year and a half younger and with a year less NBA experience than Jaylen Brown.   The Jayson Tatum of early 2019-20 is pretty clearly in a better place than the Jaylen Brown of early 2018-19. Obviously, JT may not take the leap JB has appeared to make (in Year 4), but JT is possibly in the all-star conversation THIS YEAR (at 21), and very likely next year.   That couldn't be more precisely what people hoped he'd be at 22.

As far as Luka goes, he has the look of an all-time great (barring injury) in his first season+.   I don't believe I ever heard anyone sugggest that about Jayson.

Here's my response to both of these.  First, the people that were gushing about tatum were mostly celtic fans, so that is who I am addressing.  I will add that there was a thread that went on for pages and pages debating whether one would trade tatum for giannis, a top 2 player in the world today.  Whether that is comparable to luka I will leave to you to decide but giannis is arguably the best player in the world.  Some had indicated that they wouldn't trade tatum for anyone after that first season.  So that's my reference point for people (i.e., Celtic fans) for putting unrealistic expectations on tatum.

As I keep saying, this doesn't mean that I think tatum stinks.  Just that many of the lofty expectations are now questionable.  He may never reach true star status.

[mmmmm]

I basically started the same thread last month, with the gist being that Tatum was no longer a surefire star (nevermind superstar).  That doesn't mean that he won't or can't improve or become a star.  What it does mean is that the praise heaped onto tatum was premature and likely at least somewhat misguided.  He CAN be a great scorer but he has holes that won't easily be fixed (related to play making for others).

But there is a really easy way for me to make the point; Luka Doncic.

Luka is what people thought Tatum was. Not in the similarity to their games, but in the sense that he looks like the real deal potential MVP caliber player (which was praise given to tatum by some Celt fans).  Doncic already has skills that tatum may never have and at a younger age.  In a world where you're measured up against your peers, those two are on different levels.

I don't think this is true.   Tatum has always been consider a premium blue-chip NBA prospect, and very likely to be multi-time All-Star level of player.  And I think he's still seen that way.

But Luka Doncic is something else entirely.  Luka has been drawing comparisons to Lebron in terms of being ridiculously better than any other same age players of their generation.   Lebron was a man playing with boys in high school.  Luka has been a boy playing with men during his 'high school' years.   He is a basketball savant and anybody who has been paying attention to his rocket like rise through various levels of Euro pro basketball has known he is something special.   This is a kid who's future screams 'perennial MVP candidate'.

I don't think Luka represents a fair metric for any other young players.   We don't need Jayson Tatum to be as exceptional as Luka Doncic in order to be a success.  Tatum doesn't need to be a perennial MVP candidate and I don't know of many scouts who seriously ever expected him to be.   There is a lot of room for great success without that expectation.

Paul Pierce was almost never in the MVP conversation during his career.  Usually just on the fringes of it.  His highest finish in the voting was 7th and he otherwise always finished outside the top 10. He never made All-NBA first team -- just multiple 3rd & 2nd teams.  Yet he was a multi-year All-Star and a definite Hall Of Famer long before his career was over.    Ray Allen was a similar level of player.   Multiple year All-Star, a couple of All-NBA 2nd & 3rd teams.  Only a couples appearances on the fringes of MVP considerations (9th was his best finish).   And ultimately, like Paul, a great, HoF player.

I basically started the same thread last month, with the gist being that Tatum was no longer a surefire star (nevermind superstar).  That doesn't mean that he won't or can't improve or become a star.  What it does mean is that the praise heaped onto tatum was premature and likely at least somewhat misguided.  He CAN be a great scorer but he has holes that won't easily be fixed (related to play making for others).

But there is a really easy way for me to make the point; Luka Doncic.

Luka is what people thought Tatum was.  Not in the similarity to their games, but in the sense that he looks like the real deal potential MVP caliber player (which was praise given to tatum by some Celt fans).  Doncic already has skills that tatum may never have and at a younger age.  In a world where you're measured up against your peers, those two are on different levels.

Maybe some people thought of Tatum the way they are thinking now of Luka -- but honestly, I don't know who.   Jayson Tatum is absolutely STILL on the trajectory most had him on.    Early in the season a bomb like last night hurts the season stats, but we are still talking about a 21yo averaging 19.4 and 7.7 boards.  And virtually every stat is trending up career-wise.   As a rookie, hopes were he'd become a perennial all-star and I think that is still in play.  He's a year and a half younger and with a year less NBA experience than Jaylen Brown.   The Jayson Tatum of early 2019-20 is pretty clearly in a better place than the Jaylen Brown of early 2018-19. Obviously, JT may not take the leap JB has appeared to make (in Year 4), but JT is possibly in the all-star conversation THIS YEAR (at 21), and very likely next year.   That couldn't be more precisely what people hoped he'd be at 22.

As far as Luka goes, he has the look of an all-time great (barring injury) in his first season+.   I don't believe I ever heard anyone sugggest that about Jayson.

Here's my response to both of these.  First, the people that were gushing about tatum were mostly celtic fans, so that is who I am addressing.  I will add that there was a thread that went on for pages and pages debating whether one would trade tatum for giannis, a top 2 player in the world today.  Whether that is comparable to luka I will leave to you to decide but giannis is arguably the best player in the world.  Some had indicated that they wouldn't trade tatum for anyone after that first season.  So that's my reference point for people (i.e., Celtic fans) for putting unrealistic expectations on tatum.

As I keep saying, this doesn't mean that I think tatum stinks.  Just that many of the lofty expectations are now questionable.  He may never reach true star status.

Ah.  Okay.  So when you said "Lukas is what people thought Tatum was.", by "people" you actually meant the tiny handful of  2 or 3 overzealous fans on that managed to keep one CelticsBlog thread going for page after page after page.

Got it. 

Because that certainly wasn't "people" in general.

And just what exactly do you mean by "true star status" such that you are now apparently writing him off for (after just a few games into his 3rd season)?

[keevsnick]

I basically started the same thread last month, with the gist being that Tatum was no longer a surefire star (nevermind superstar).  That doesn't mean that he won't or can't improve or become a star.  What it does mean is that the praise heaped onto tatum was premature and likely at least somewhat misguided.  He CAN be a great scorer but he has holes that won't easily be fixed (related to play making for others).

But there is a really easy way for me to make the point; Luka Doncic.

Luka is what people thought Tatum was. Not in the similarity to their games, but in the sense that he looks like the real deal potential MVP caliber player (which was praise given to tatum by some Celt fans).  Doncic already has skills that tatum may never have and at a younger age.  In a world where you're measured up against your peers, those two are on different levels.

I don't think this is true.   Tatum has always been consider a premium blue-chip NBA prospect, and very likely to be multi-time All-Star level of player.  And I think he's still seen that way.

But Luka Doncic is something else entirely.  Luka has been drawing comparisons to Lebron in terms of being ridiculously better than any other same age players of their generation.   Lebron was a man playing with boys in high school.  Luka has been a boy playing with men during his 'high school' years.   He is a basketball savant and anybody who has been paying attention to his rocket like rise through various levels of Euro pro basketball has known he is something special.   This is a kid who's future screams 'perennial MVP candidate'.

I don't think Luka represents a fair metric for any other young players.   We don't need Jayson Tatum to be as exceptional as Luka Doncic in order to be a success.  Tatum doesn't need to be a perennial MVP candidate and I don't know of many scouts who seriously ever expected him to be.   There is a lot of room for great success without that expectation.

Paul Pierce was almost never in the MVP conversation during his career.  Usually just on the fringes of it.  His highest finish in the voting was 7th and he otherwise always finished outside the top 10. He never made All-NBA first team -- just multiple 3rd & 2nd teams.  Yet he was a multi-year All-Star and a definite Hall Of Famer long before his career was over.    Ray Allen was a similar level of player.   Multiple year All-Star, a couple of All-NBA 2nd & 3rd teams.  Only a couples appearances on the fringes of MVP considerations (9th was his best finish).   And ultimately, like Paul, a great, HoF player.

I basically started the same thread last month, with the gist being that Tatum was no longer a surefire star (nevermind superstar).  That doesn't mean that he won't or can't improve or become a star.  What it does mean is that the praise heaped onto tatum was premature and likely at least somewhat misguided.  He CAN be a great scorer but he has holes that won't easily be fixed (related to play making for others).

But there is a really easy way for me to make the point; Luka Doncic.

Luka is what people thought Tatum was.  Not in the similarity to their games, but in the sense that he looks like the real deal potential MVP caliber player (which was praise given to tatum by some Celt fans).  Doncic already has skills that tatum may never have and at a younger age.  In a world where you're measured up against your peers, those two are on different levels.

Maybe some people thought of Tatum the way they are thinking now of Luka -- but honestly, I don't know who.   Jayson Tatum is absolutely STILL on the trajectory most had him on.    Early in the season a bomb like last night hurts the season stats, but we are still talking about a 21yo averaging 19.4 and 7.7 boards.  And virtually every stat is trending up career-wise.   As a rookie, hopes were he'd become a perennial all-star and I think that is still in play.  He's a year and a half younger and with a year less NBA experience than Jaylen Brown.   The Jayson Tatum of early 2019-20 is pretty clearly in a better place than the Jaylen Brown of early 2018-19. Obviously, JT may not take the leap JB has appeared to make (in Year 4), but JT is possibly in the all-star conversation THIS YEAR (at 21), and very likely next year.   That couldn't be more precisely what people hoped he'd be at 22.

As far as Luka goes, he has the look of an all-time great (barring injury) in his first season+.   I don't believe I ever heard anyone sugggest that about Jayson.

Here's my response to both of these.  First, the people that were gushing about tatum were mostly celtic fans, so that is who I am addressing.  I will add that there was a thread that went on for pages and pages debating whether one would trade tatum for giannis, a top 2 player in the world today.  Whether that is comparable to luka I will leave to you to decide but giannis is arguably the best player in the world.  Some had indicated that they wouldn't trade tatum for anyone after that first season.  So that's my reference point for people (i.e., Celtic fans) for putting unrealistic expectations on tatum.

As I keep saying, this doesn't mean that I think tatum stinks.  Just that many of the lofty expectations are now questionable.  He may never reach true star status.

Ah.  Okay.  So when you said "Lukas is what people thought Tatum was.", by "people" you actually meant the tiny handful of  2 or 3 overzealous fans on that managed to keep one CelticsBlog thread going for page after page after page.

Got it. 

Because that certainly wasn't "people" in general.

And just what exactly do you mean by "true star status" such that you are now apparently writing him off for (after just a few games into his 3rd season)?

I actually kind of agree with droopdog7 on this one. There were people who thought of Tatum as a sure fire future top 10, even top 5 guy after his rookie season. I remember listening to one Celtics based Podcast where one of the hosts (some media guy) said he would be surprised if Tatum DIDNT reach that level. I believe in Tatums upside, I think he could get there, but to believe its a lock is/was crazy. Not in Doncic's case however.

[droopdog7]

I basically started the same thread last month, with the gist being that Tatum was no longer a surefire star (nevermind superstar).  That doesn't mean that he won't or can't improve or become a star.  What it does mean is that the praise heaped onto tatum was premature and likely at least somewhat misguided.  He CAN be a great scorer but he has holes that won't easily be fixed (related to play making for others).

But there is a really easy way for me to make the point; Luka Doncic.

Luka is what people thought Tatum was. Not in the similarity to their games, but in the sense that he looks like the real deal potential MVP caliber player (which was praise given to tatum by some Celt fans).  Doncic already has skills that tatum may never have and at a younger age.  In a world where you're measured up against your peers, those two are on different levels.

I don't think this is true.   Tatum has always been consider a premium blue-chip NBA prospect, and very likely to be multi-time All-Star level of player.  And I think he's still seen that way.

But Luka Doncic is something else entirely.  Luka has been drawing comparisons to Lebron in terms of being ridiculously better than any other same age players of their generation.   Lebron was a man playing with boys in high school.  Luka has been a boy playing with men during his 'high school' years.   He is a basketball savant and anybody who has been paying attention to his rocket like rise through various levels of Euro pro basketball has known he is something special.   This is a kid who's future screams 'perennial MVP candidate'.

I don't think Luka represents a fair metric for any other young players.   We don't need Jayson Tatum to be as exceptional as Luka Doncic in order to be a success.  Tatum doesn't need to be a perennial MVP candidate and I don't know of many scouts who seriously ever expected him to be.   There is a lot of room for great success without that expectation.

Paul Pierce was almost never in the MVP conversation during his career.  Usually just on the fringes of it.  His highest finish in the voting was 7th and he otherwise always finished outside the top 10. He never made All-NBA first team -- just multiple 3rd & 2nd teams.  Yet he was a multi-year All-Star and a definite Hall Of Famer long before his career was over.    Ray Allen was a similar level of player.   Multiple year All-Star, a couple of All-NBA 2nd & 3rd teams.  Only a couples appearances on the fringes of MVP considerations (9th was his best finish).   And ultimately, like Paul, a great, HoF player.

I basically started the same thread last month, with the gist being that Tatum was no longer a surefire star (nevermind superstar).  That doesn't mean that he won't or can't improve or become a star.  What it does mean is that the praise heaped onto tatum was premature and likely at least somewhat misguided.  He CAN be a great scorer but he has holes that won't easily be fixed (related to play making for others).

But there is a really easy way for me to make the point; Luka Doncic.

Luka is what people thought Tatum was.  Not in the similarity to their games, but in the sense that he looks like the real deal potential MVP caliber player (which was praise given to tatum by some Celt fans).  Doncic already has skills that tatum may never have and at a younger age.  In a world where you're measured up against your peers, those two are on different levels.

Maybe some people thought of Tatum the way they are thinking now of Luka -- but honestly, I don't know who.   Jayson Tatum is absolutely STILL on the trajectory most had him on.    Early in the season a bomb like last night hurts the season stats, but we are still talking about a 21yo averaging 19.4 and 7.7 boards.  And virtually every stat is trending up career-wise.   As a rookie, hopes were he'd become a perennial all-star and I think that is still in play.  He's a year and a half younger and with a year less NBA experience than Jaylen Brown.   The Jayson Tatum of early 2019-20 is pretty clearly in a better place than the Jaylen Brown of early 2018-19. Obviously, JT may not take the leap JB has appeared to make (in Year 4), but JT is possibly in the all-star conversation THIS YEAR (at 21), and very likely next year.   That couldn't be more precisely what people hoped he'd be at 22.

As far as Luka goes, he has the look of an all-time great (barring injury) in his first season+.   I don't believe I ever heard anyone sugggest that about Jayson.

Here's my response to both of these.  First, the people that were gushing about tatum were mostly celtic fans, so that is who I am addressing.  I will add that there was a thread that went on for pages and pages debating whether one would trade tatum for giannis, a top 2 player in the world today.  Whether that is comparable to luka I will leave to you to decide but giannis is arguably the best player in the world.  Some had indicated that they wouldn't trade tatum for anyone after that first season.  So that's my reference point for people (i.e., Celtic fans) for putting unrealistic expectations on tatum.

As I keep saying, this doesn't mean that I think tatum stinks.  Just that many of the lofty expectations are now questionable.  He may never reach true star status.

Ah.  Okay.  So when you said "Lukas is what people thought Tatum was.", by "people" you actually meant the tiny handful of  2 or 3 overzealous fans on that managed to keep one CelticsBlog thread going for page after page after page.

Got it. 

Because that certainly wasn't "people" in general.

And just what exactly do you mean by "true star status" such that you are now apparently writing him off for (after just a few games into his 3rd season)?

True star status to me means perennial all star.  Mark it down, every year, he'll be an all star.  Without listing, I'd guess there are about 15 guys in the nba right now that fit that description.

And again, I'm not writing him off from anything.  I am simply trying to reassess what is realistic.  And it's not about just a few games into season three.  I am evaluating his game and there are definitely gaps worth noting.  Tatum looks like he'll be at least an above average scorer but doesn't project to be above average in any other part of his game.  Now, if he can score 30 a game then the rest might be forgiven.  But if he's a 23 point scorer the shortcomings are less forgivable.

[Spicoli]

5. Finally, he has yet to show in the 2+ years that he can dominate games or flat out take it over on a nightly basis.  I do not think he can.

I keep waiting for Tatum to have one of those games where he's absolutely on fire and he nails 7 or 8 shots in a row. All of the great scorers have done that at some point. I rarely see Tatum make more than 3 shots in a row at any given point. How many 30 point games has he had in his career thus far? Doesn't seem like many. Not a knock on him but for a guy who is supposed to be a dynamic scorer, he never seems to catch fire.

[Rondo9]

I basically started the same thread last month, with the gist being that Tatum was no longer a surefire star (nevermind superstar).  That doesn't mean that he won't or can't improve or become a star.  What it does mean is that the praise heaped onto tatum was premature and likely at least somewhat misguided.  He CAN be a great scorer but he has holes that won't easily be fixed (related to play making for others).

But there is a really easy way for me to make the point; Luka Doncic.

Luka is what people thought Tatum was. Not in the similarity to their games, but in the sense that he looks like the real deal potential MVP caliber player (which was praise given to tatum by some Celt fans).  Doncic already has skills that tatum may never have and at a younger age.  In a world where you're measured up against your peers, those two are on different levels.

I don't think this is true.   Tatum has always been consider a premium blue-chip NBA prospect, and very likely to be multi-time All-Star level of player.  And I think he's still seen that way.

But Luka Doncic is something else entirely.  Luka has been drawing comparisons to Lebron in terms of being ridiculously better than any other same age players of their generation.   Lebron was a man playing with boys in high school.  Luka has been a boy playing with men during his 'high school' years.   He is a basketball savant and anybody who has been paying attention to his rocket like rise through various levels of Euro pro basketball has known he is something special.   This is a kid who's future screams 'perennial MVP candidate'.

I don't think Luka represents a fair metric for any other young players.   We don't need Jayson Tatum to be as exceptional as Luka Doncic in order to be a success.  Tatum doesn't need to be a perennial MVP candidate and I don't know of many scouts who seriously ever expected him to be.   There is a lot of room for great success without that expectation.

Paul Pierce was almost never in the MVP conversation during his career.  Usually just on the fringes of it.  His highest finish in the voting was 7th and he otherwise always finished outside the top 10. He never made All-NBA first team -- just multiple 3rd & 2nd teams.  Yet he was a multi-year All-Star and a definite Hall Of Famer long before his career was over.    Ray Allen was a similar level of player.   Multiple year All-Star, a couple of All-NBA 2nd & 3rd teams.  Only a couples appearances on the fringes of MVP considerations (9th was his best finish).   And ultimately, like Paul, a great, HoF player.

I basically started the same thread last month, with the gist being that Tatum was no longer a surefire star (nevermind superstar).  That doesn't mean that he won't or can't improve or become a star.  What it does mean is that the praise heaped onto tatum was premature and likely at least somewhat misguided.  He CAN be a great scorer but he has holes that won't easily be fixed (related to play making for others).

But there is a really easy way for me to make the point; Luka Doncic.

Luka is what people thought Tatum was.  Not in the similarity to their games, but in the sense that he looks like the real deal potential MVP caliber player (which was praise given to tatum by some Celt fans).  Doncic already has skills that tatum may never have and at a younger age.  In a world where you're measured up against your peers, those two are on different levels.

Maybe some people thought of Tatum the way they are thinking now of Luka -- but honestly, I don't know who.   Jayson Tatum is absolutely STILL on the trajectory most had him on.    Early in the season a bomb like last night hurts the season stats, but we are still talking about a 21yo averaging 19.4 and 7.7 boards.  And virtually every stat is trending up career-wise.   As a rookie, hopes were he'd become a perennial all-star and I think that is still in play.  He's a year and a half younger and with a year less NBA experience than Jaylen Brown.   The Jayson Tatum of early 2019-20 is pretty clearly in a better place than the Jaylen Brown of early 2018-19. Obviously, JT may not take the leap JB has appeared to make (in Year 4), but JT is possibly in the all-star conversation THIS YEAR (at 21), and very likely next year.   That couldn't be more precisely what people hoped he'd be at 22.

As far as Luka goes, he has the look of an all-time great (barring injury) in his first season+.   I don't believe I ever heard anyone sugggest that about Jayson.

Here's my response to both of these.  First, the people that were gushing about tatum were mostly celtic fans, so that is who I am addressing.  I will add that there was a thread that went on for pages and pages debating whether one would trade tatum for giannis, a top 2 player in the world today.  Whether that is comparable to luka I will leave to you to decide but giannis is arguably the best player in the world.  Some had indicated that they wouldn't trade tatum for anyone after that first season.  So that's my reference point for people (i.e., Celtic fans) for putting unrealistic expectations on tatum.

As I keep saying, this doesn't mean that I think tatum stinks.  Just that many of the lofty expectations are now questionable.  He may never reach true star status.

Ah.  Okay.  So when you said "Lukas is what people thought Tatum was.", by "people" you actually meant the tiny handful of  2 or 3 overzealous fans on that managed to keep one CelticsBlog thread going for page after page after page.

Got it. 

Because that certainly wasn't "people" in general.

And just what exactly do you mean by "true star status" such that you are now apparently writing him off for (after just a few games into his 3rd season)?

True star status to me means perennial all star.  Mark it down, every year, he'll be an all star.  Without listing, I'd guess there are about 15 guys in the nba right now that fit that description.

And again, I'm not writing him off from anything.  I am simply trying to reassess what is realistic.  And it's not about just a few games into season three.  I am evaluating his game and there are definitely gaps worth noting.  Tatum looks like he'll be at least an above average scorer but doesn't project to be above average in any other part of his game.  Now, if he can score 30 a game then the rest might be forgiven.  But if he's a 23 point scorer the shortcomings are less forgivable.

But most of his stats are up this year. Realistically he's making some improvements though there are still holes in his game. Tatum is still very young and has plenty of time to figure it out.

[bopna]

You guys are unbelievable....

The guy is only 21 so lets give him some slack.  Reggie Lewis wasn't even in the NBA his age and we immortalized him in the rafters.

Tatum may not peak into an ultra dynamic scorer like Lebron or Jordan heck or even a James Harden...But he is still going to be a very good player and maybe at his peak is somewhat similar to Pierce.  Ofcourse even that may not happen but certainly the signs are there specially because he is still young.

Give the kid time and lets just temper our expectations to an Allstar and not Superstar status.

[Somebody]

You guys are unbelievable....

The guy is only 21 so lets give him some slack.  Reggie Lewis wasn't even in the NBA his age and we immortalized him in the rafters.

Tatum may not peak into an ultra dynamic scorer like Lebron or Jordan heck or even a James Harden...But he is still going to be a very good player and maybe at his peak is somewhat similar to Pierce.  Ofcourse even that may not happen but certainly the signs are there specially because he is still young.

Give the kid time and lets just temper our expectations to an Allstar and not Superstar status.

The thing is an All-Star (or even an All-NBA player for that matter) is not going to win us a title as the best player on our squad. And before you point to exceptions like the Pistons, Billups played like a MVP level player in that title run, and they had two more All-NBA guys in the Wallace duo, plus a couple of fringe All-Stars in Prince and Hamilton. If Tatum peaks as 2010 Paul Pierce we're in serious trouble if we want to contend barring Brown becoming a super poor man's MJ.

[Surferdad]

You guys are unbelievable....

The guy is only 21 so lets give him some slack.  Reggie Lewis wasn't even in the NBA his age and we immortalized him in the rafters.

Tatum may not peak into an ultra dynamic scorer like Lebron or Jordan heck or even a James Harden...But he is still going to be a very good player and maybe at his peak is somewhat similar to Pierce.  Ofcourse even that may not happen but certainly the signs are there specially because he is still young.

Give the kid time and lets just temper our expectations to an Allstar and not Superstar status.

The thing is an All-Star (or even an All-NBA player for that matter) is not going to win us a title as the best player on our squad. And before you point to exceptions like the Pistons, Billups played like a MVP level player in that title run, and they had two more All-NBA guys in the Wallace duo, plus a couple of fringe All-Stars in Prince and Hamilton. If Tatum peaks as 2010 Paul Pierce we're in serious trouble if we want to contend barring Brown becoming a super poor man's MJ.

Well that's a pretty significant "barr" as it's reasonable to expect JB to reach near-all-star level. Hayward is a former all-star who was looking all-star-like until the injury.  Then you DO have an all-NBA player in Walker.  Tatum, Brown, Walker, Hayward...I actually do see parallels to that 2004 Pistons team.  Good thought!

[JBcat]

I want to echo what others are saying about age.   Look at how Brown struggled to start last season.  Granted he was fighting injuries, but he looks so much better now. 

There can be massive growths in games up until ages 23/24 before it starts to be incremental improvements and levels off.   Brown just turned 23, and Tatum won’t be 22 until March.  When you look at Tatum’s age players like Paul Pierce was just entering the league.

Saying that Tatum is averaging 20 a game on a team that has 1 loss this year, and had a great game winner basket!

[Somebody]

You guys are unbelievable....

The guy is only 21 so lets give him some slack.  Reggie Lewis wasn't even in the NBA his age and we immortalized him in the rafters.

Tatum may not peak into an ultra dynamic scorer like Lebron or Jordan heck or even a James Harden...But he is still going to be a very good player and maybe at his peak is somewhat similar to Pierce.  Ofcourse even that may not happen but certainly the signs are there specially because he is still young.

Give the kid time and lets just temper our expectations to an Allstar and not Superstar status.

The thing is an All-Star (or even an All-NBA player for that matter) is not going to win us a title as the best player on our squad. And before you point to exceptions like the Pistons, Billups played like a MVP level player in that title run, and they had two more All-NBA guys in the Wallace duo, plus a couple of fringe All-Stars in Prince and Hamilton. If Tatum peaks as 2010 Paul Pierce we're in serious trouble if we want to contend barring Brown becoming a super poor man's MJ.

Well that's a pretty significant "barr" as it's reasonable to expect JB to reach near-all-star level. Hayward is a former all-star who was looking all-star-like until the injury.  Then you DO have an all-NBA player in Walker.  Tatum, Brown, Walker, Hayward...I actually do see parallels to that 2004 Pistons team.  Good thought!

I was actually discouraging you guys from bringing it up as a comparison. Billups had MVP calibre play during that title run, and he was an All-NBA guy in the RS. That Pistons team had 3 All-NBA guys and 2 All-Stars, while we have 1 All-NBA guy and 4 All-Stars (Smart's actually a sub All-Star player due to his elite non-big defense, and he might have legitimate All-Star impact this season with his improved shooting and playmaking) based on what we've seen so far in the RS (I think Brown has a legitimate shot at being an All-NBA level wing this season if the past couple of games is the new norm for him, but even then we're one All-NBA guy short, ntm none of our 5 are bigs). We really need at least 2 out of Jaylen/Hayward/Tatum to step up and reach All-NBA status or higher to even have a shot at sniffing an NBA title imo. I'm personally confident that Brown and Tatum can reach that level, but if we're tempering our expectations of Tatum to be an All-Star we might as well expect this core to be another 2016 Hawks team at best.

[iadera]

I expect him to develope other skills. He can't rely only on his shooting every night. He still does.

[wiley]

Let's go Tatum! 

Move ball and self!

Cut.  Receive.  Dunk! 

Take the open threes.

[Atzar]

I think Tatum is evolving offensively.  This is good, because I didn't think he was last season.  Against Dallas, he was taking the right shots despite the misses.  Some open jumpers, some drives into the paint, a few post-ups that I really liked, some putback attempts.  Only a few contested iso jumpers.  This is a very good shot profile despite the results.

I'd like to see him explore that post game more.  His footwork and length could play well there. Had a few post-ups against Dallas where he displayed good, decisive moves and got shots right at the rim... that clanked out, because that was the kind of night he was having.  But I feel like he'll hit those at a good rate overall. 

I feel like he's rushing when he gets into the paint.  Shot blockers appear to be in his head a bit, and it's apparent that the game hasn't slowed down for him like it seems to be for Jaylen.

Handle is a big weakness right now.  Loose, high, and easily bothered.  Prone to getting stripped not just in traffic, but even by his own man.  I watched him 'attack' a closeout where his drive was almost cartoonishly wide around the defender to try to avoid getting his pocket picked.  Hard to get to the rim when your first step is actually away from the basket. 

And I think his handle also negatively influences his vision.  I actually think he's a capable passer.  He can find teammates and make the right pass when his head is up... and therein lies the problem.  He dribbles with his head down too often.  A tighter, more confident handle will help unlock a lot of his game, I think.

He's still very much a work in progress.  And that's fine... most 21 year olds are.  But I feel like he's moving in the right direction now. 

[GreenFaith1819]

He played much better.

He's also starting to fill out the box score some.

He's STILL developing...dude has greatness in him, give it time.