Where Irving is Right

[iadera]

All this talking about this last Tatum's shot are sensless, since this whole situation shoudn't have happened. We were 10-12 up whole game and had to finish it without any stress.

[RockinRyA]

Love GH, but Kyrie should've had the ball in his hands at the end of that ORL game.

Kyrie Irving is NOT the problem and neither is GH or Big Al.

But in any event that game is over - water under the bridge.

Sans Kyrie Tatum and Brown put up OUTSTANDING numbers vs BKN - but in a loss.

I don't think Kyrie believes no one but him should have the ball at the end of that game. I think he feels that giving it to Al gives us more option and have Al make that decision.

[The Oracle]

This link contains video of the play in question. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/why-was-kyrie-irving-so-angry-celtics-final-play

Hayward chooses to pass to Tatum rather than inbounding to Horford because Tatum gets a step on Iwundu.  I don't have an issue with this decision.  The problem is that Tatum doesn't use his advantage.  He slows and cuts toward the corner to make the catch 18 feet from the basket, allowing Iwundu to catch up, and his only real choice is the play for the shot that he ended up getting - a contested fadeaway 18 footer.  I don't know if this is what Stevens wanted, or if this is just Tatum being Tatum. 

I would have wanted Tatum to cut to the baseline instead of the corner.  It's a more difficult angle for Hayward, but it gives Tatum more options.  He can play for a much shorter jumpshot if he chooses.  Or, he can drive to the rim.  Tatum's length would make it difficult for Iwundu to contest from behind, but he'd probably have to finish around Isaac's help defense.  Personally I'd take my chances with that.

Ok well if not for this

What would have Irving done better?

He was like 7 ft away from Hayward, with his man stuck to him like glue.   When the ref gives Hayward the ball, Irving is not even trying to get away from his defender

I don't understand in this situation, why Stevens wouldn't revert to the old double/triple pick strategy (both Irving and Tatum running around the screens) .  And two players who set the picks (Horford and Williams for example) rolling to the basket for an alley/catch fake and shoot near the basket opportunity

just *facepalm*

The Celtics have run this play before, with both Kyrie and IT.  Kyrie is not supposed to take off until Horford receives the inbounds pass.  The timing with less than three seconds would have been tight but manageable.

I saw a twitter post that very clearly showed the setup/execution on previous versions of this play, but unfortunately I didn't save it and I don't feel like sorting through twitter crap to find it again.

Yes but I believe Horford was covered tightly as well

You want to excute this but its not going to happen all the time

With 3 sec left how easy is it to make two quick passes and get a clean shot off?

Need at least 5 sec

No.  Don't need nearly that much time. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/HalfCourtHoops/status/1084278355367731209

Watch the first play in this clip - it's probably exactly what Brad drew up against the Magic.  Also, notice that only two seconds came off of the clock in this instance.  There was enough time to run this play. 

Rather than waiting for this to develop, Hayward saw that Tatum had a step on Iwundu and chose to go to him instead.

TP. That was the play. When Brad Stevens draws up an OTO, you should probably run it. Not because it's guaranteed to work, but because it probably gives you a better chance than anything else.

The play had several options. Kyrie via Horford was one. Tatum was one.

Is getting “the next Paul Pierce” a shot such a bad option?

It is a really bad option if you are trying to retain a player like Kyrie next year.  Horford fully expected to receive the ball there, that is perfectly clear by his reaction following the inbound to Tatum.  Hayward made a tactical error 2 seconds into the developing play.  Kyrie let Hayward know that is unacceptable as it should be under the circumstances.

If Kyrie leaves because a teammate took a last second shot, good riddance.

It’s not unacceptable at all. Tatum is an excellent player who can make shots.  He took a makeable shot.

It is not because Tatum took a last second shot.  It is because a Tatum fade away should never ever be the 1st option there.  If Brad drew that play up and Tatum was not just a decoy but  was actually the 1st option, then Brad should be crucified.  If the play blows up then sure go to Tatum in the corner for that less desirable shot.  Not going to your star player there who had just been instrumental in the comeback is dumb and every star/quasi star in the league will take umbrage  at the thought.  If the play was a lob to Tatum with Kyrie as a decoy then that is entirely different.

Tatum was an option on the play.  As noted earlier in the thread, he had some separation on his defender.  He wasted that, but it's hard to scrutinize anybody with 3 seconds left on the clock.

There were probably over a dozen plays way more egregious last night than passing to Tatum with 2.7 seconds left.

And, there's a huge chasm between taking "umbrage" and having such a gigantic ego that a teammate's shot would cause a player to leave in free agency.  I cannot imagine that Kyrie is that self-centered.

Tatum had a defender on his tail the entire time.  Kyrie has a ton of reasons to consider leaving this summer and it is not in the Celtics best interest to add to them.  Without more information it looks like Hayward made a bad choice and given another opportunity he will choose more wisely.  Inbounding to Tatum there with his back to the basket and jacking up a long, contested  2 gives the C's maybe a 15-20% win probability, the C's can do better than that and should have.

[Celtics4ever]

All this talking about this last Tatum's shot are sensless, since this whole situation shoudn't have happened. We were 10-12 up whole game and had to finish it without any stress. 01/15/19

I agree there was not a whole bunch of time but he did have a big game last night in terms of points, so I would not stop talking to him.

[celtics4ever33]

Kyrie is a leader right? MArcus Smart ?


Why are they not getting blame?

[petbrick]

Kyrie has a ton of reasons to consider leaving this summer and it is not in the Celtics best interest to add to them.

I may just be out of the loop, but could you list some of these reasons? I'm failing to see them on the face of it.

[gouki88]

Kyrie is a leader right? MArcus Smart ?


Why are they not getting blame?

Are you intentionally ignoring statements where Kyrie has said he needs to be better? I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I'm 100% Smart has said similar. They're definitely getting their share of blame.

In fact, if anything, Kyrie is getting a nonsensical amount of blame from posters such as yourself. It's Kyrie's fault that they play badly when he doesn't play, and it's his fault that they play badly with him in the game too! Personal accountability is a foreign concept to you it seems

[IDreamCeltics]

Where was Kyrie last night?  How do you give a lecture to your teammates about accountability and not show up for the next game?

[smokeablount]

Kyrie is a leader right? MArcus Smart ?


Why are they not getting blame?

Are you intentionally ignoring statements where Kyrie has said he needs to be better? I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I'm 100% Smart has said similar. They're definitely getting their share of blame.

In fact, if anything, Kyrie is getting a nonsensical amount of blame from posters such as yourself. It's Kyrie's fault that they play badly when he doesn't play, and it's his fault that they play badly with him in the game too! Personal accountability is a foreign concept to you it seems

You forgot that when they win with Kyrie he gets no credit, but when they lose with Kyrie, it's Kyrie's fault.

[Green-18]

The overreactions on this message board have become comical.  Just remember, patience is a virtue.  Danny Ainge isn't going to overreact.  Part of that means maintaining flexibility for whatever comes during the off-season.  As fans we want instant results, but the reality is that the Celtics organization is assessing this team with the next 3-5 years in mind.  Part of this includes:

1. Patience with young talent.  There's nothing to indicate that we have a Demarcus Cousins type of personality in the locker room.  Danny has assembled a roster full of competitive players and he understands the natural desire for the young guys to establish themselves.
2.  Seeing how guys respond under playoff pressure after a potentially mediocre season.  I'm not ruling out the possibility that these guys to set aside their issues when the playoff arrive.  The playoffs should be an invaluable opportunity for Danny and Brad to assess the roster mix going forward.
3.  Giving Kyrie the opportunity to grow as a leader.  I'm not the biggest fan of his recent comments, but I believe Kyrie when he says that he wants to win more than anything else.  He sees a bunch of young players who remind him of his younger self.  He knows that he needs to remain patient, but it's easier said than done.  People are constantly bashing Kyrie for his "lack of leadership".  I'm curious as to who the "Superstar" leaders are in the NBA?  Durant, Harden, LeBron, Kawhi?  If anything, Kyrie is trying to adjust his game more than any of those players. 

Despite everything I just said, I'm NOT suggesting that this team should be devoid of criticism.  There are plenty of things that I have disliked about this season.  I'm just not going to jump off a cliff and come to final conclusions.