Jaylen Brown appreciation thread

[Kernewek]

Cheers to a new year and a great run for Jaylen and the Celtics. He has looked good!

Yep. If the team is going to come close to our ceiling JB will be a big part in making a deep run come playoff time and - if he can finally break the Moranis curse - we're looking at a very good team for the foreseeable future, not just this season.

what is the moranis curse you speak or?

Brown has played pretty well the last month or so and actually has gotten himself to a positive on/off differential.  It is good to see, now we just need to keep Brown at this level and get Tatum back to early season Tatum because Tatum's on/off has tumbled as Brown's has improved.  Right now White seems like the most valuable player on the team and that is a problem since Tatum and Brown are both significantly more talented.

Variations on: 'he's not a good fit with Tatum, and he's not a guy who makes the team that much better'. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, think of it more like shorthand for the discussion on Brown's overall effectiveness.

[Moranis]

Cheers to a new year and a great run for Jaylen and the Celtics. He has looked good!

Yep. If the team is going to come close to our ceiling JB will be a big part in making a deep run come playoff time and - if he can finally break the Moranis curse - we're looking at a very good team for the foreseeable future, not just this season.

what is the moranis curse you speak or?

Brown has played pretty well the last month or so and actually has gotten himself to a positive on/off differential.  It is good to see, now we just need to keep Brown at this level and get Tatum back to early season Tatum because Tatum's on/off has tumbled as Brown's has improved.  Right now White seems like the most valuable player on the team and that is a problem since Tatum and Brown are both significantly more talented.

Variations on: 'he's not a good fit with Tatum, and he's not a guy who makes the team that much better'. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, think of it more like shorthand for the discussion on Brown's overall effectiveness.

ah so the moranis curse is use of data?

[Muzzy66]

He had been averaging between 23 and 27 pts/gm for the last 4 seasons as the #2 guy on a winning team (meaning not padded with empty stats).  That is not easy to do. He has been an all star and all NBA.  He has been really good all along.

Now he is upping his decision making. He has added a reliable and unstoppable midrange fadeaway. I never understood the lack of appreciation but glad to see him getting some.

My issue the past few years was never that he wasn't scoring enough - it was that:

1: He's been extremely inconsistent 30 points on 60% shooting one night, 11 points on 28% shooting the next)

2: He's been forcing bad offence too often (too much iso-play, too many early shot clock threes, too much driving blindly into traffic) rather than playing within the flow, moving the ball, and letting the game come to him.

3: His rebounding, playmaking and defence have all left a little to be desired the past few years, so when he's having a bad offensive night he hasn't really been able to compensate by contributing in other ways. 

4: He's always just given off the vibe of being a big ego guy who just doesn't want to be outdone/outshone by Tatum. 

But lately he's really made some huge changes.  He's been making far better decisions with the ball, taking good shots, moving the ball well (he's even giving up his good shots when a teammate has a better one, which I love) and he just looks happier, more content...and like he's well and truly focussed on winning and nothing else.

I love to see it!

I actually feel the addition of Porzingis and Jrue have a lot to do with it too. 

In the past when it came to any media coverage of the Celtics, it was always about Tatum and Brown.  Are they good enough, can they play together, which is better, etc.  It was never about the TEAM, it was just those two guys constantly in the spotlight.

Now with KP and Jrue on the team (and the emergence of White) everybody on the roster has been playing their individual roles to perfection, and so suddenly media aren't just talking about JT vs JB anymore - they are talking about everybody on the roster, and more importantly they are talking about the team as a whole. 

Plus there is probably nobody on this team who has sacrificed more this year then Jrue.  He came in as a #2 option averaging 19 and 7 on a 25% usage rate for the Bucks...to averaging 13 and 5 on a 17% usage rate (by far the lowest of his career) in Boston.  For Jrue to make that type of sacrifice in the prime of his career I think sends a very clear message to the rest of the team - that winning is all that matters.  Winning trumps individual stats, all-star votes and season awards - all he cares about is going out there and doing whatever it he has to do on any given night to help his team win.  I expect without question that this sacrifice by Jrue (along with getting that taste of victory) has probably rubbed off on Tatum and Brown in a huge way. 

[Muzzy66]

When Jaylen entered the league I loved his game - he was super athletic, he played hard on D, and he was a beast attacking the basket - and these were all traits I loved to see. 

Over the past few years I've found myself more and more frustrated by Jaylen.  Every year he seemed more and more like he was unable to overcome his ego

   Psychology has a name for the tendency, seen on sports blogs and everywhere else, to explain a person's actions by reference to their character. It's called the Fundamental Attribution Error- not taking into account context but making character judgments. Marcus Smart couldn't have been shooting threes because his coaches told him to, it had to be because his ego thought he was part of a big 3. And Jaylen Brown couldn't have been so focused on his own shot because his coaches wanted that, it's because his ego wanted to be equal to Tatum.

Jaylen Brown has made it pretty clear in the past (in his own words) that he felt he is Tatum's equal and that he doesn't see himself as the #2 guy on the team.  It's not just about the way he was playing, it's things he has actually openly said that gave the impression that he doesn't want to be second fiddle to anybody else.

He also often just did not look happy to me.  Seemed to have poor body language...he often looked deflated or angry in post game interviews, he was critical of Boston fans, etc.  Just gave me the vibe he didn't want to be there,

But lately his whole vibe is different.  He looks happy.  He looks like a man hanging out with his best friends. He just realy seems to me like a different guy.

[Kernewek]

Cheers to a new year and a great run for Jaylen and the Celtics. He has looked good!

Yep. If the team is going to come close to our ceiling JB will be a big part in making a deep run come playoff time and - if he can finally break the Moranis curse - we're looking at a very good team for the foreseeable future, not just this season.

what is the moranis curse you speak or?

Brown has played pretty well the last month or so and actually has gotten himself to a positive on/off differential.  It is good to see, now we just need to keep Brown at this level and get Tatum back to early season Tatum because Tatum's on/off has tumbled as Brown's has improved.  Right now White seems like the most valuable player on the team and that is a problem since Tatum and Brown are both significantly more talented.

Variations on: 'he's not a good fit with Tatum, and he's not a guy who makes the team that much better'. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, think of it more like shorthand for the discussion on Brown's overall effectiveness.

ah so the moranis curse is use of data?

That paired with a dogged determination that past performance necessarily and unfailingly informs future results, sure.

[smokeablount]

Cheers to a new year and a great run for Jaylen and the Celtics. He has looked good!

Yep. If the team is going to come close to our ceiling JB will be a big part in making a deep run come playoff time and - if he can finally break the Moranis curse - we're looking at a very good team for the foreseeable future, not just this season.

what is the moranis curse you speak or?

Brown has played pretty well the last month or so and actually has gotten himself to a positive on/off differential.  It is good to see, now we just need to keep Brown at this level and get Tatum back to early season Tatum because Tatum's on/off has tumbled as Brown's has improved.  Right now White seems like the most valuable player on the team and that is a problem since Tatum and Brown are both significantly more talented.

Variations on: 'he's not a good fit with Tatum, and he's not a guy who makes the team that much better'. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, think of it more like shorthand for the discussion on Brown's overall effectiveness.

ah so the moranis curse is use of data?

That paired with a dogged determination that past performance necessarily and unfailingly informs future results, sure.

As well as leaning heavily on certain metrics when they situationally suit his argument, and then dismissing/ignoring those same metrics when they contradict his argument in an analogous situation. Specifically on/off.

On the topic at hand, I haven’t watched any games since the Clippers, been on vacation, but in the month before that JB played like the best player on the best team in the NBA. Great to see.

[Neurotic Guy]

Cheers to a new year and a great run for Jaylen and the Celtics. He has looked good!

Yep. If the team is going to come close to our ceiling JB will be a big part in making a deep run come playoff time and - if he can finally break the Moranis curse - we're looking at a very good team for the foreseeable future, not just this season.

what is the moranis curse you speak or?

Brown has played pretty well the last month or so and actually has gotten himself to a positive on/off differential.  It is good to see, now we just need to keep Brown at this level and get Tatum back to early season Tatum because Tatum's on/off has tumbled as Brown's has improved.  Right now White seems like the most valuable player on the team and that is a problem since Tatum and Brown are both significantly more talented.

Variations on: 'he's not a good fit with Tatum, and he's not a guy who makes the team that much better'. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, think of it more like shorthand for the discussion on Brown's overall effectiveness.

ah so the moranis curse is use of data?

That paired with a dogged determination that past performance necessarily and unfailingly informs future results, sure.

As well as leaning heavily on certain metrics when they situationally suit his argument, and then dismissing/ignoring those same metrics when they contradict his argument in an analogous situation. Specifically on/off.

On the topic at hand, I haven’t watched any games since the Clippers, been on vacation, but in the month before that JB played like the best player on the best team in the NBA. Great to see.

Moranis brings interesting, provocative ideas to the table - and hangs onto them desperately.   I've disliked the JB takes but can't dispute that he finds data to support his views.  Been much quieter (silent) about JB over the last 15 games or so than the first 15 or so.   

[A Future of Stevens]

Cheers to a new year and a great run for Jaylen and the Celtics. He has looked good!

Yep. If the team is going to come close to our ceiling JB will be a big part in making a deep run come playoff time and - if he can finally break the Moranis curse - we're looking at a very good team for the foreseeable future, not just this season.

what is the moranis curse you speak or?

Brown has played pretty well the last month or so and actually has gotten himself to a positive on/off differential.  It is good to see, now we just need to keep Brown at this level and get Tatum back to early season Tatum because Tatum's on/off has tumbled as Brown's has improved.  Right now White seems like the most valuable player on the team and that is a problem since Tatum and Brown are both significantly more talented.

Variations on: 'he's not a good fit with Tatum, and he's not a guy who makes the team that much better'. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, think of it more like shorthand for the discussion on Brown's overall effectiveness.

ah so the moranis curse is use of data?

That paired with a dogged determination that past performance necessarily and unfailingly informs future results, sure.

As well as leaning heavily on certain metrics when they situationally suit his argument, and then dismissing/ignoring those same metrics when they contradict his argument in an analogous situation. Specifically on/off.

On the topic at hand, I haven’t watched any games since the Clippers, been on vacation, but in the month before that JB played like the best player on the best team in the NBA. Great to see.

Moranis brings interesting, provocative ideas to the table - and hangs onto them desperately.   I've disliked the JB takes but can't dispute that he finds data to support his views.  Been much quieter (silent) about JB over the last 15 games or so than the first 15 or so.

I have loved reading the first 20ish game report he does. I think I missed it this year. Most of the views tend to have solid backing. You could disagree with the conclusion sometimes, but they tend to be justified. Forums are better when there are differing opinions about matters.

Echo chambers get boring and dangerous fast.

[Moranis]

Cheers to a new year and a great run for Jaylen and the Celtics. He has looked good!

Yep. If the team is going to come close to our ceiling JB will be a big part in making a deep run come playoff time and - if he can finally break the Moranis curse - we're looking at a very good team for the foreseeable future, not just this season.

what is the moranis curse you speak or?

Brown has played pretty well the last month or so and actually has gotten himself to a positive on/off differential.  It is good to see, now we just need to keep Brown at this level and get Tatum back to early season Tatum because Tatum's on/off has tumbled as Brown's has improved.  Right now White seems like the most valuable player on the team and that is a problem since Tatum and Brown are both significantly more talented.

Variations on: 'he's not a good fit with Tatum, and he's not a guy who makes the team that much better'. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, think of it more like shorthand for the discussion on Brown's overall effectiveness.

ah so the moranis curse is use of data?

That paired with a dogged determination that past performance necessarily and unfailingly informs future results, sure.

I've never done that. I am the first to acknowledge there are always exceptions and obviously players and teams obviously can grow. 

[Kernewek]

Cheers to a new year and a great run for Jaylen and the Celtics. He has looked good!

Yep. If the team is going to come close to our ceiling JB will be a big part in making a deep run come playoff time and - if he can finally break the Moranis curse - we're looking at a very good team for the foreseeable future, not just this season.

what is the moranis curse you speak or?

Brown has played pretty well the last month or so and actually has gotten himself to a positive on/off differential.  It is good to see, now we just need to keep Brown at this level and get Tatum back to early season Tatum because Tatum's on/off has tumbled as Brown's has improved.  Right now White seems like the most valuable player on the team and that is a problem since Tatum and Brown are both significantly more talented.

Variations on: 'he's not a good fit with Tatum, and he's not a guy who makes the team that much better'. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, think of it more like shorthand for the discussion on Brown's overall effectiveness.

ah so the moranis curse is use of data?

That paired with a dogged determination that past performance necessarily and unfailingly informs future results, sure.

I've never done that. I am the first to acknowledge there are always exceptions and obviously players and teams obviously can grow.

Tongue is firmly in cheek on my end, Mo.

[Moranis]

Cheers to a new year and a great run for Jaylen and the Celtics. He has looked good!

Yep. If the team is going to come close to our ceiling JB will be a big part in making a deep run come playoff time and - if he can finally break the Moranis curse - we're looking at a very good team for the foreseeable future, not just this season.

what is the moranis curse you speak or?

Brown has played pretty well the last month or so and actually has gotten himself to a positive on/off differential.  It is good to see, now we just need to keep Brown at this level and get Tatum back to early season Tatum because Tatum's on/off has tumbled as Brown's has improved.  Right now White seems like the most valuable player on the team and that is a problem since Tatum and Brown are both significantly more talented.

Variations on: 'he's not a good fit with Tatum, and he's not a guy who makes the team that much better'. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way, think of it more like shorthand for the discussion on Brown's overall effectiveness.

ah so the moranis curse is use of data?

That paired with a dogged determination that past performance necessarily and unfailingly informs future results, sure.

As well as leaning heavily on certain metrics when they situationally suit his argument, and then dismissing/ignoring those same metrics when they contradict his argument in an analogous situation. Specifically on/off.

On the topic at hand, I haven’t watched any games since the Clippers, been on vacation, but in the month before that JB played like the best player on the best team in the NBA. Great to see.

Moranis brings interesting, provocative ideas to the table - and hangs onto them desperately.   I've disliked the JB takes but can't dispute that he finds data to support his views.  Been much quieter (silent) about JB over the last 15 games or so than the first 15 or so.

Brown has played very strong winning basketball the last month or so.  Good to see, though it almost seems like it is at the expense of Tatum, who hasn't been playing very good team ball over the same period. It would be nice if they both did it together as that is how Boston will win a title.  Right now, White has played the most consistent winning ball on the team and that really can't continue as White just isn't as good as Tatum or Brown.

[Vermont Green]

Brown has played very strong winning basketball the last month or so.  Good to see, though it almost seems like it is at the expense of Tatum, who hasn't been playing very good team ball over the same period. It would be nice if they both did it together as that is how Boston will win a title.  Right now, White has played the most consistent winning ball on the team and that really can't continue as White just isn't as good as Tatum or Brown.

The prominent point of debate with Brown has been whether or not Brown and Tatum are good together or if they are too similar.  There were +/- stats that showed Brown was not as good without Tatum but that is true of all players.  Tatum makes all players better, including Brown.

What is different this year is that we have added a highly skilled big (Porzingis) and we have added a really good ballhandler (Holiday).  Plus White is playing better.  I don't believe that there was ever an issue with playing two skilled wings (Tatum and Brown) together.  This was often opined as a truth, I just never bought into it.

The historical +/- or on/off stats for Brown were often quoted.  For me, those did not align with what I saw from Brown on the court.  The stats can't be ignored, they are what they are, but when they don't align with what you see on the court, you have to look deeper, look for context.  When I looked deeper, I saw that Brown plays the most without Tatum (as compared to other starters).  All the other starters have better +/- or on/off stats when they are on with Tatum, Brown is no different. 

In any case, this seems to be self correcting.  Brown is playing even better and the numbers are reflecting this.  There is still some suggestion that Brown is somehow taking away from Tatum.  What Brown is doing to stepping in and taking a bigger role when Tatum has been out.  Tatum is doing fine albeit the 3P% is down some.  If the suggestion is that somehow Tatum is down due to Brown, I don't buy that.

[Roy H.]

Yikes.  Lots of angry folks taking shots at JB in the game thread.  But, for reasons expressed above, I think that Jaylen is going to get a lot of grief.  Tatum is sort of a sacred cow, KP is the shiny new toy, White is the most likable dude on the team.

The targets for fan criticism on most nights are going to be (in order) Joe, Brown, "the bench", and then probably Jrue (but we haven't really reached that point yet).

[cman88]

Yikes.  Lots of angry folks taking shots at JB in the game thread.  But, for reasons expressed above, I think that Jaylen is going to get a lot of grief.  Tatum is sort of a sacred cow, KP is the shiny new toy, White is the most likable dude on the team.

The targets for fan criticism on most nights are going to be (in order) Joe, Brown, "the bench", and then probably Jrue (but we haven't really reached that point yet).

I knew after 1 bad game the pitchforks would come out.

otherwise he had a great month.

[Vermont Green]

Yikes.  Lots of angry folks taking shots at JB in the game thread.  But, for reasons expressed above, I think that Jaylen is going to get a lot of grief.  Tatum is sort of a sacred cow, KP is the shiny new toy, White is the most likable dude on the team.

The targets for fan criticism on most nights are going to be (in order) Joe, Brown, "the bench", and then probably Jrue (but we haven't really reached that point yet).

I knew after 1 bad game the pitchforks would come out.

otherwise he had a great month.

It is strange how other players seem to have built up more fan equity or something.  Tatum can have a bad week and you don't hear much.  Brown has a bad quarter and it is all you hear about.  And if Mazzulla doesn't call a time out or makes an odd substitution, look out.