Author Topic: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me  (Read 11245 times)

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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2016, 06:33:36 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Top young defensive guard in the league. Hope is that Smart can become a 14-15ppg threat to become a two-way player. Mostly through improved perimeter shooting.
I still think a hybrid of Tony Allen/Rodney Stuckey is in play for him if he improves his offensive game significantly.
Also, 15 ppg is not a hope, it's more like a pipe dream. What you're hoping here is a 10-12 ppg player who gives you solid defense and doesn't kill you with his inefficiency on offense.
He's on a similar trajectory to Bradley who went 2 -> 7 -> 9 -> 15ppg.  Why not Smart?
Exactly. Why do people think Marcus has hit his ceiling already? He's 22, people. He's gonna have a bigger role next year. He's gonna get more PT, especially on the ball if Turner leaves. It's a little early, but I'm hoping for a mini-breakout season next year from him.
Two years of minimal progression isn't all that encouraging.  He's still young and could still develop, but at this pace, it's not looking good.

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2016, 06:34:05 PM »

Offline inverselock

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Top young defensive guard in the league. Hope is that Smart can become a 14-15ppg threat to become a two-way player. Mostly through improved perimeter shooting.
I still think a hybrid of Tony Allen/Rodney Stuckey is in play for him if he improves his offensive game significantly.
Also, 15 ppg is not a hope, it's more like a pipe dream. What you're hoping here is a 10-12 ppg player who gives you solid defense and doesn't kill you with his inefficiency on offense.
He's on a similar trajectory to Bradley who went 2 -> 7 -> 9 -> 15ppg.  Why not Smart?

2nd year AB could shoot.   



Smart was bad

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« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 10:39:33 PM by inverselock »

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2016, 06:38:41 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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He was drafted high and he's young.  If he played in Philly or LA, nobody here would want anything to do with him.

That said, he still might have potential so we have some hope he might live up to his draft position.  So far, he's been very disappointing, but he still has time.  This season is an important one for him.  If he doesn't make a leap, the "next Tony Allen" talk will start to set in.

Wait Tony Allen has already had a 12 year career and has been a starter for 6 years on a perennial western playoff team. He has made 3 all NBA first defensive team and one second all defensive team thus far as well as a championship with the Celtics. Would this kind of career really be a disappointment for Smart?
Yes that would absolutely be a disappointment considering the expectations of the pick.  The anticipation was that he'd be the type of franchise talent that we could build around.  Many anticipated him coming in and averaging close to Tyreke Evans numbers (20 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists).  He was seen as the future of the team.  He may peak out as a Tony Allen type role player and have a long career contributing to teams.   That would be admirable if he was drafted at the end of the 1st round like Allen.  But if that's Smart's peak, yeah... that's a disappointment.   Let's first see if he even accomplishes that... and keep hoping he develops into something more substantial.

A year ago I suggested that the jury was still out on the Smart vs Randle debate and while Smart was clearly ahead of him, Randle might close the gap during his rookie season.

How do you guys see the gap now?  How much of a gap does Smart have over Randle at this point?  Randle averaged 11 points, 10.2 rebounds, 1.8 assists with 43%/28%/72% shooting last season.  It'll be interesting to see how much improvement both of those guys make (Smart's 3rd season and Randle's 2nd).   I wouldn't be stunned to see both of them playing for new teams next year.

Not really sure where you get your expectations. Lillard looks like a star, but everyone else on this list (number 6 picks for the last 15 years) would be lucky to be a truly elite defensive player that carved out a spot on the all-defensive first team as a starter for a powerful playoff team (Roy was obviously screwed by injuries). You realize all defensive first team is pretty hard to do right? Being a top 5 defender in the league is an extremely valuable skill and you have to be decent enough at other parts of basketball to get enough minutes to earn that award.



2015 Willie Cauley-Stein, Kentucky – Sacramento Kings
2014 Marcus Smart, Oklahoma St. – Boston Celtics
2013 Nerlens Noel, Kentucky – New Orleans Pelicans
2012 Damian Lillard, Weber State – Portland Trail Blazers
2011 Jan Vesely, Czech Republic – Washington Wizards
2010 Ekpe Udoh, Baylor – Golden State Warriors

2000’s

2009 Johnny Flynn, Syracuse – Minnesota Timberwolves
2008 Danilo Gallinari, Italy – New York Knicks
2007 Yi Jianlian, China – Milwaukee Bucks
2006 Brandon Roy, Washington – Minnesota Timberwolves
2005 Martell Webster, Seattle Prep HS – Portland Trail Blazers
2004 Josh Childress, Stanford – Atlanta Hawks
2003 Chris Kaman, Central Michigan – L.A. Clippers
2002 Dajuan Wagner, Memphis – Cleveland Cavaliers
2001 Shane Battier, Duke – Memphis Grizzlies
2000 DerMarr Johnson, Cincinnati – Atlanta Hawks

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2016, 06:49:23 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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I'm certainly not part of the smart hype train but if the coach had him handling indtead of turner he'd be further along. We'd lose a ton more games but it's bothered me since he's been here, especially since it's likely been for nothing with turner probably being gone. Well, it's helped Brad's reputation.

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2016, 07:00:14 PM »

Offline TheFlex

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Game 4, 1st round, 2016 playoffs, BOS vs. ATL. Watch it, then you'll get the hype.


Draft: 8 first rounders in next 5 years.

Cap space: $24 mil.

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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2016, 07:09:39 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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With his defense and peripheral attributes, Smart need only become a 12-14 point per game scorer (e.g. average for a shooting guard) with an outside shot that merits defending and an ability to get to the rim occasionally, and acceptable efficiency (e.g. 40 / 33 / 70) to be a top 10-15 player at his position.

Doesn't that beg a couple of questions?

1) What is his position?  Point guard?  Shooting guard?  Combo?  Generic "wing"?   If we are going to say he is "top 10-15 at his position", then who are the players we are comparing him to?

2) Is a top 10-15 player at a position an acceptable result for a #6 pick that was the result of tanking?   I feel that's a decent return for such a pick, but nothing to get too overly excited about.  Others may expect more.

As to number one, I think I addressed that in the rest of my post, or tried to at least. I don't think he will ever be a top point guard, but as a secondary ball handler at shooting guard, I think he could reach that level.

Well, again, who are the players to whom he compares at this 'position'?
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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2016, 07:10:08 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I think the hype regarding Marcus Smart is that he's sort of the Celtic's Draymond. 

He's the guy who gets under opposing players skin, leads by example with effort, effects the game in multiple ways, and generally contributes to a winning culture.

Now Smart's offense hasn't come along yet, but Draymond Green didn't start showing signs of life on offense until his third year in the NBA (when he was 25 years old) and then somehow made a MASSIVE leap offensively this year.

Another TP - people often talk about Tony Allen as a comp for Smart, but I agree more with the Draymond comparison and the attributes you listed above. I see progression with Marcus over the next couple of years, but (as has been said a million times already) his impact goes way beyond the box score.


Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2016, 07:35:04 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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I think the hype regarding Marcus Smart is that he's sort of the Celtic's Draymond. 

He's the guy who gets under opposing players skin, leads by example with effort, effects the game in multiple ways, and generally contributes to a winning culture.

Now Smart's offense hasn't come along yet, but Draymond Green didn't start showing signs of life on offense until his third year in the NBA (when he was 25 years old) and then somehow made a MASSIVE leap offensively this year.

Love the comparison. TP.

If Marcus would flop less and take better shots/improve outside shooting, he would truly become one of the most important players in basketball. His impact is very important, and often understated.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2016, 07:22:15 AM »

Offline loco_91

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It's simple. Smart is so good on defense that he only needs to be average on offense to be a top-30 player. I think it will help him a lot to play more on-ball if ET leaves, as it really doesn't play to his strengths to have him spotting up behind the arc. His facilitating skills are way way ahead of his shooting.

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2016, 07:43:18 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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And his facilitating skills are subpar as well. But great on d as long as it's not guarding a point guard.

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2016, 03:16:27 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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There was an article a while back, I think from the globe that LarBrd posted about Smart. There was a lot of backlash, I think largely because it was LarBrd and it was viewed as him just jumping onto any opportunity to trash Smart, but the key part of the article is that the Cs really branded him as the savior type. There was the whole "Education of Marcus Smart" all the losing was directed towards his eventual selection. the 2014 draft was supposed to be generational and while the ping pong balls kept us from getting our lebron James we could still nab our D Wade or Melo.

Marcus isnt that type of Superstar. Marcus doesnt project to be any kind of superstar. I love the guy and think hes gonna be really really good, but I think a lot of people were led to believe he was going to come in and put up 20 and 6 from day one, when in reality hes probably never putting up those numbers. That led to a group that was so dissapointed in his lack of immediate stardom, they think he sucks, and a group still thinking hes gonna some day wake up and be Russell Westbrook with elite defense.

To answer your actual question, its because hes the perfect Celtic. He makes big plays, hed rather die than lose, and he brings an absurd amount of intensity to the game. People want Smart to be a star because hed be great as a star.

Smart is probably not going to be a 20/6 player.  I don't compare him to Russell Westbrook who is an elite offensive player.  I'd probably compare him more to Dennis Johnson.  A tough as nails PG who could contribute to winning in a number of ways.  If Smart could reach DJ's level of productivity I would take that as a big win for a #6 overall pick.

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2016, 03:29:39 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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He was drafted high and he's young.  If he played in Philly or LA, nobody here would want anything to do with him.

That said, he still might have potential so we have some hope he might live up to his draft position.  So far, he's been very disappointing, but he still has time.  This season is an important one for him.  If he doesn't make a leap, the "next Tony Allen" talk will start to set in.

Wait Tony Allen has already had a 12 year career and has been a starter for 6 years on a perennial western playoff team. He has made 3 all NBA first defensive team and one second all defensive team thus far as well as a championship with the Celtics. Would this kind of career really be a disappointment for Smart?
Yes that would absolutely be a disappointment considering the expectations of the pick.  The anticipation was that he'd be the type of franchise talent that we could build around.  Many anticipated him coming in and averaging close to Tyreke Evans numbers (20 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists).  He was seen as the future of the team.  He may peak out as a Tony Allen type role player and have a long career contributing to teams.   That would be admirable if he was drafted at the end of the 1st round like Allen.  But if that's Smart's peak, yeah... that's a disappointment.   Let's first see if he even accomplishes that... and keep hoping he develops into something more substantial.

A year ago I suggested that the jury was still out on the Smart vs Randle debate and while Smart was clearly ahead of him, Randle might close the gap during his rookie season.

How do you guys see the gap now?  How much of a gap does Smart have over Randle at this point?  Randle averaged 11 points, 10.2 rebounds, 1.8 assists with 43%/28%/72% shooting last season.  It'll be interesting to see how much improvement both of those guys make (Smart's 3rd season and Randle's 2nd).   I wouldn't be stunned to see both of them playing for new teams next year.

Legitimate points.

But far too many people confuse "my favorite player" with "superstar," along with the mind-numbingly vapid expectation that Brad Stevens is somehow a bad coach because he doesn't accept losing games to give "my favorite player" the role I want him to have. SMH.

Far too many.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2016, 03:33:03 PM »

Offline ssspence

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I hope / pray Marcus improves dramatically in Year 3, or his trade value is higher than I suspect.

Beyond that, all I can say is this: I find it very hard to watch him play. The defense is fun, but for me more than negated by the torture of watching him run the team on O.
Mike

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Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2016, 05:20:19 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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marcus bashers p--- me off-a merry go round rookie season and missing a big chunk with a serious  high ankle sprain he had no lift and was in pain till mid summer-look how a mild high ankle effected crowder,
the summer league and dislocated fingers then dislocated his knee
all of these injuries effected his driving ,shooting and development
marcus a bust ,we have been privileged to watch his defence

Re: Can someone explain the hype of Marcus Smart to me
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2016, 05:21:35 PM »

Offline Fred Roberts

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I am not aware of any hype surrounding Smart. I think there's more optimism than pessimism, but no real hype.

He has shown the type of winning intangibles that any fan base would want. He's got the desire, hustle, strength/frame and potential to be really good.

He's way ahead of Avery Bradley's development.

I'd bet he averages 12-14 next season with continued improvement across the board. It's not like he has a Shawn Marion stroke. His stroke is decent. Not a Tony Allen stroke either. Way better.

Handles need improvement but again, way better than Avery and Tony already. They were both awful in the ball handling Dept.

Temper expectations. He's going to be solid with that added beast mode mentality. Keep him unless we  get a major offer.