Author Topic: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades  (Read 6684 times)

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CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« on: June 28, 2008, 06:06:05 PM »

Offline CelticBalla32

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Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2008, 06:13:25 PM »

Offline Mean Gerald Green

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Erden will likely be stashed overseas for a long while, possibly for eternity.

That one got me rolling.

I'd love to see Giddens and Walker both get some minutes next year...we'll see how Walker holds up.

Great work man.

Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2008, 06:35:09 PM »

Offline Who

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Great stuff CelticBalla32. Enjoyed reading those.

I'm giving an A+ to Phily, Clippers, Orlando and Houston though.

I'm tempted to give Seattle an F or at least a D for the Russell Westbrook decision alone. The thing is I love the DJ White pickup, I absolutely love it, fantastic pickup. DeVon Hardin was good value as low as he went too. Ibaka was a reach but still a fairly low risk high potential guy so I'm happy there too. But that Russell Westbrook?? Arghhh!

I'm definitely giving Washington an F.

I'm still pondering the Pacers but right now my reaction to their moves isn't looking good. I'm completely stumped by Chad Ford's analysis. I'll ponder a bit longer.

PS The Sonics one is a bit hard to read. If you want to keep the team colours you could change the text font to black. That'd make it easier. Love the look of the site, very nice.

Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2008, 06:46:57 PM »

Offline CelticBalla32

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Great stuff CelticBalla32. Enjoyed reading those.

I'm giving an A+ to Phily, Clippers, Orlando and Houston though.

I'm tempted to give Seattle an F or at least a D for the Russell Westbrook decision alone. The thing is I love the DJ White pickup, I absolutely love it, fantastic pickup. DeVon Hardin was good value as low as he went too. Ibaka was a reach but still a fairly low risk high potential guy so I'm happy there too. But that Russell Westbrook?? Arghhh!

I'm definitely giving Washington an F.

I'm still pondering the Pacers but right now my reaction to their moves isn't looking good. I'm completely stumped by Chad Ford's analysis. I'll ponder a bit longer.

PS The Sonics one is a bit hard to read. If you want to keep the team colours you could change the text font to black. That'd make it easier. Love the look of the site, very nice.

Yeah, I agree the white on yellow it tough. But, they aren't my sites. I know the owner of them, though, and he allows me to write on them.

As for Seattle:

A B+ may have been too generous on my part, but while there were better prospects available at 4, Westbrook gives Seattle exactly what they need. And no other guard prospect, except Mayo who was not available, could match it... DEFENSE. Seattle can score, we know that. But they need defense, and that's what Westbrook - the best perimeter defender in this draft - brings.

I also think D.J. White is gonna be a heck of a role player.

Hardin at 50? Us Celtics fans were almost pulling for him at 30.

I think they got great value late in the draft, and Westbrook is what the Sonics need.
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Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2008, 06:51:39 PM »

Offline cool breeze

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Great work, and fun to read! Worth the 3 Tommy points necessary to get you to #200. (Guess I'll have to owe you the last two..)

Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2008, 06:56:50 PM »

Offline ChampKind

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CB Draft Bucks: Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Tobias Harris, Zach LaVine, Aaron Afflalo, Jeff Green, Donatas Motiejunas, Jarrett Jack, Frank Kaminsky, Lance Stephenson, JaVale McGee, Shane Larkin, Nick Young

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Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2008, 07:06:46 PM »

Offline Who

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Great stuff CelticBalla32. Enjoyed reading those.

I'm giving an A+ to Phily, Clippers, Orlando and Houston though.

I'm tempted to give Seattle an F or at least a D for the Russell Westbrook decision alone. The thing is I love the DJ White pickup, I absolutely love it, fantastic pickup. DeVon Hardin was good value as low as he went too. Ibaka was a reach but still a fairly low risk high potential guy so I'm happy there too. But that Russell Westbrook?? Arghhh!

I'm definitely giving Washington an F.

I'm still pondering the Pacers but right now my reaction to their moves isn't looking good. I'm completely stumped by Chad Ford's analysis. I'll ponder a bit longer.

PS The Sonics one is a bit hard to read. If you want to keep the team colours you could change the text font to black. That'd make it easier. Love the look of the site, very nice.

Yeah, I agree the white on yellow it tough. But, they aren't my sites. I know the owner of them, though, and he allows me to write on them.

As for Seattle:

A B+ may have been too generous on my part, but while there were better prospects available at 4, Westbrook gives Seattle exactly what they need. And no other guard prospect, except Mayo who was not available, could match it... DEFENSE. Seattle can score, we know that. But they need defense, and that's what Westbrook - the best perimeter defender in this draft - brings.

I also think D.J. White is gonna be a heck of a role player.

Hardin at 50? Us Celtics fans were almost pulling for him at 30.

I think they got great value late in the draft, and Westbrook is what the Sonics need.

I really don't see it with Westbrook. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza. Both were lockdown defenders for UCLA and neither have any point guard skills.

The lad just finished his second year of college and the only actual non-defensive basketball skill that I can mediocre or better for an NBA player is his penetration (mediocre) and his finishing in the open court. This kid is a great kid who works his socks off ... how are his skills so poor so late on? How does that happen? 

I don't like raw guards, they very rarely pan out. It's a high-skill dependent position.

Best case scenario - He's a Devin Harris - Bears mentioning that's not a compliment, I don't like Devin Harris. Harris was a much better scorer, penetrator, shooter and playmaker coming out of college. The truth is the guy he reminds me most of is Royal Ivey and that's the worst case scenario.

I don't see it with this kid. I'm not sold he's even going to be a starter in this league in 5 years time.

I was angry all last season that Seattle had no point guard who could get Kevin Durant an easy shot. I'm going to be even angrier this season because Westbrook isn't as good as Watson or Ridnour and they're both backups.

Westbrook climbed those rankings way too far for my liking. I have Mario Chalmers ranked above him. We'll see how that one works out! ;D

Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2008, 07:09:18 PM »

Offline CelticBalla32

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Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2008, 07:24:35 PM »

Offline cordobes

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I'm still pondering the Pacers but right now my reaction to their moves isn't looking good. I'm completely stumped by Chad Ford's analysis. I'll ponder a bit longer.


Who, a few days ago you were wondering about Bird's abilities as a GM. I think he's having a great start. Walsh left him stucked with a non-playoff roster, consisting of a very good player in Granger and a solid player in Dunleavy who somehow duplicate each other, a perennially injured and unmotivated franchise player, a handful of untradeable contracts, a couple of gangsters and a horrible salary situation. A few weeks later, the situation looks much more brighter. He solved the pg situation for years, with two players that complement each other weaknesses well, drafted an excellent perimeter defender, a very ready big who can be part of the rotation since day one and he'll be under the cap space in the next off-season. Great, great job.

Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2008, 07:28:48 PM »

Offline Who

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I'm still pondering the Pacers but right now my reaction to their moves isn't looking good. I'm completely stumped by Chad Ford's analysis. I'll ponder a bit longer.


Who, a few days ago you were wondering about Bird's abilities as a GM. I think he's having a great start. Walsh left him stucked with a non-playoff roster, consisting of a very good player in Granger and a solid player in Dunleavy who somehow duplicate each other, a perennially injured and unmotivated franchise player, a handful of untradeable contracts, a couple of gangsters and a horrible salary situation. A few weeks later, the situation looks much more brighter. He solved the pg situation for years, with two players that complement each other weaknesses well, drafted an excellent perimeter defender, a very ready big who can be part of the rotation since day one and he'll be under the cap space in the next off-season. Great, great job.
Yeah I didn't like that Jermaine O Neal trade for Indiana. I'm still pondering on that draft day deal involving Bayless and whether or not that changes my impression on the Jermaine trade. Right now I think it worsens everything and I find myself struggling to agree with many of the analysts reasoning.

Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2008, 08:46:54 PM »

Offline CelticBalla32

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What's not to like about that Jermaine O'Neal trade, Who? They get rid of a declining big man that isn't going to lead them anywhere but mediocrity, they get another first round pick, and they get salary relief. It's an absolute no-brainer, to me.
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Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2008, 09:16:10 PM »

Offline cordobes

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Great reading, CB32. Naturally, I disagree with some of your assessments (Minny - vide Love-Mayo thread; Knicks - they'd be insane to pass on Gallinari just to get a PG not named Rose, as I can't see DJ or Bayless fitting D'Antoni's system that well; Jazz - I don't like none of their picks), but here's a well earned TP.

Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2008, 09:27:07 PM »

Offline Who

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What's not to like about that Jermaine O'Neal trade, Who? They get rid of a declining big man that isn't going to lead them anywhere but mediocrity, they get another first round pick, and they get salary relief. It's an absolute no-brainer, to me.
You don't think they're in mediocrity now?

With Jermaine O Neal healthy they were a top 10 defensive club (just). With his post game they had one of the most diverse offenses in the league (with Tinsley healthy). Offensively they had a post presence, shooters, an emerging wing in Granger, a great complementary wing in Dunleavy putting up 18ppg, and a playmaking point guard pulling the strings. This wasn't a bad team. This was an injured team (albeit a consistently injured team).

Without Jermaine they were a 16-20th defensive ball club. Without Jermaine they were predictable and easy to stifle offensively. That was a bad team. With Jermaine they were dangerous and capable of causing upsets come playoff time.

Financials
Worst case scenario Jermaine doesn't get healthy next season. Then he's an expiring contract at $22mil. Financially the Pacers didn't move any bad contracts in this deal, they also didn't move any troublesome contracts in the Blazers deal. Their financial position hasn't changed considerably. They got $12-13mil in expiring contracts/cap space and took on an extra $8.5mil for a year on TJ Ford's deal. I heard Hollinger talk about $16mil in cap space, heck at least $10 mil of that is going to Danny Granger. $6mil, that's MLE money. The Pacers still have all their bad contracts, the contracts that actually limit their flexibility - Tinsley, Murphy, Dunleavy, Daniels (about to expire anyway - team option).

Now let's see with Jermaine - Jermaine O Neal wipes out most of that cap space, leaving Indy 4mil below the cap (over the cap with Granger's extension), but they have a monster 22mil coming off the books the next season. That's fantastic. That's actual usable cap space. That's a real 16mil with nobody to sign that they can use to add talent. The other route, trading Jermaine, and with Danny signed at $10mil that figure is only $6mil just like it was the season before because Danny+Ford+pay increases=Jermaine. Without Jermaine versus with Jermaine in two years ... cap space is better with Jermaine.

Keeping Jermaine also gives them that huge expiring contract to deal

The cap space isn't any better. They have more cap flexibility by letting Jermaine expire and having enough money to chase a top free agent instead of splitting it between Ford and another just above MLE player. Two solid players or a star? Which does the team need more to build a championship side? Star right?

Still Mediocre - Still Not Rebuilding

In terms of talent. Let's look where they are. The Pacers won 36 games last season. Jermaine only played 40, and only 15 of them were at an All-Star level, the rest weren't much. Tinsley played only 39 games and he was limited through the final few weeks while playing. Still they won 36 games.

They have two good scorers on the wing in Dunleavy and Granger. TJ Ford is a very good point guard who'll run the team well and get the most of out their talents. Then they have Foster, Murphy, Hibbert in the paint. Also Jarret Jack, Daniels, and Brandon Rush. Does that team win less or more games than the 36 win team last season? I think slightly more. There's more balance and better perimeter play. Likely less injuries and more consistent play likely to emerge from that.

Let's look at the team again .... where are they getting worse in the next three years? They're mostly guys in their prime and a couple improving. They're not getting worse. They're staying pretty much the same stuck in their 36-44 win bracket over the next few years. Still getting low lottery picks or just getting into the playoffs while getting eliminated in 4-5 games.

They're not rebuilding. They made a lateral move that makes them worse

Only now they have no big man. No defensive presence. No low post game.

Where's the development coming from? I'll tell you where. It's coming in 3 years time when Dunleavy, Murphy and Tinsley come off the books. Until then all they're doing is wasting draft opportunities by getting picks unnecessarily high.

The team with Jermaine has a chance of starting that rebuilding a year earlier because of the added cap space.
The team with Jermaine has a chance of making mild noise in the playoffs if they get there.

How are they better off?

Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2008, 09:32:31 PM »

Offline Who

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What if Indiana just kept Jerryd Bayless. Let him replace Tinsley at the point. Now Indiana has three legit scorers on the perimeter along with Jermaine, Foster and Murphy in the paint. Rush, Daniels and Tinsley/Diener off the bench which is respectable.

Where is that team next season? Where are they if JO is healthy? Interesting playoff team
Where are they if he isn't? Same place they'll be next season without him

Is Bayless a worse prospect than Rush or Ford? No.
Is their future harmed by keeping Jermaine? No.

What if they trade Daniels and #11? That'll likely bring home a solid player earning 6-8mil per annum. Possibly could have garnered TJ Ford or Barbosa or a bunch of other interesting names.

Re: CB32's 2008 NBA Draft Grades
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2008, 09:40:23 PM »

Offline CelticBalla32

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How is Indiana not rebuilding? They traded Jermaine O'Neal for a young playmaker, they just picked up two first round picks, and they cleared some cap space. If you don't believe that is rebuilding, I don't know what to tell you.

Indiana is mediocre regardless, yes... but now they are mediocre with young talent rather than being mediocre with aging veterans. There's a difference.
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