Author Topic: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record  (Read 6517 times)

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Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2012, 04:50:46 PM »

Offline action781

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I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.

I want wins, not stat records.

How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
He's going to say something like passing up shots for a pass. watch.

No need, you just did for me.  So you must acknowledge that you've heard of players doing this before.  If you don't think Rondo is the type of player who would, that's your opinion.  My opinion is that he would.
rondo has a FG% of over 50%.... and is taking more attempts than CP3. Is that the statistic of someone who is smart with the ball, or someone who is passing up shots for a pass?

I'm not sure where you get those FGA stats from.  CP3 (flirting near his career low in FGA/game) averages more shot attempts than Rondo (averaging his career high FGA/game) this season.  You should check that again.

I certainly am not the only one who thinks that he pads his stats.  Jeff wrote a front page article about it not too long ago quoting several other sources - http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/11/19/3665402/rondos-stat-padding-unseemly-or-no-big-deal

I like Rondo and love that he's a pass first PG.  But in my time watching Rondo play many many games, I feel like I've seen him makes plays that are very questionable if his sole objective is simply to make sure his team score points as efficiently as possible.  It is my opinion that he has turned down shots in an attempt to get assists in the past.  I've seen him what appears to be stealing rebounds from teammates.  And he's not the only NBA player who I feel does stat padding.  If you have watched over 100 games of Rajon Rondo and don't feel like he's never done that, then you're entitled to your feelings and opinions as well.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2012, 04:52:21 PM »

Offline action781

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I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.

I want wins, not stat records.

  Since the start of the 09-10 season, we're 89-29 when Rondo has more than 10 assists, 64-62 when he doesn't. I'm all for "stat padding".

If it comes in the flow of the game, thats wonderful.  And that happens very frequently - all 10+ assist games aren't the result of stat padding.  I'm just saying he has padded stats in the past before and I hope it doesn't get in the way of wins in the future.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2012, 04:57:21 PM »

Offline relja

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I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.

I want wins, not stat records.

How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
He's going to say something like passing up shots for a pass. watch.

No need, you just did for me.  So you must acknowledge that you've heard of players doing this before.  If you don't think Rondo is the type of player who would, that's your opinion.  My opinion is that he would.
rondo has a FG% of over 50%.... and is taking more attempts than CP3. Is that the statistic of someone who is smart with the ball, or someone who is passing up shots for a pass?

I'm not sure where you get those FGA stats from.  CP3 (flirting near his career low in FGA/game) averages more shot attempts than Rondo (averaging his career high FGA/game) this season.  You should check that again.

I certainly am not the only one who thinks that he pads his stats.  Jeff wrote a front page article about it not too long ago quoting several other sources - http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/11/19/3665402/rondos-stat-padding-unseemly-or-no-big-deal

I like Rondo and love that he's a pass first PG.  But in my time watching Rondo play many many games, I feel like I've seen him makes plays that are very questionable if his sole objective is simply to make sure his team score points as efficiently as possible.  It is my opinion that he has turned down shots in an attempt to get assists in the past.  I've seen him what appears to be stealing rebounds from teammates.  And he's not the only NBA player who I feel does stat padding.  If you have watched over 100 games of Rajon Rondo and don't feel like he's never done that, then you're entitled to your feelings and opinions as well.

I'm pretty sure that you would also "stat-pad" if you ever had a chance to pass Stockton or Magic at anything.
When you lose, the easy part is to see who gives up. Giving up is very simple. You basically take your stuff and walk away. To continue to work and to continue to compete is one of the most difficult things, especially when you really don't have anything - KG

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2012, 04:58:31 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I've seen him what appears to be stealing rebounds from teammates.

  That's really grasping. What are you hoping to see from him, not going after rebounds that are within his reach because there's a good chance someone else on the team will get it? Haven't we seen enough games where his teammates *didn't* get rebounds that they should have?

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2012, 04:59:24 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Some of what people view as stat-padding is also just how Rondo plays.

Rondo often will steal rebounds from other players, the reason he usually does so is so he can get the ball out on the break ASAP. If he lets the big get the board then he's just asking for the ball immediately anyways.

Plus there's the fact that we need him to crash the glass, as we're not a team that can take any rebound for granted.

Now the passing up layups is definitely something I also see. In the past he's feared going to the line, now I don't see that with him.

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2012, 05:03:27 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.

I want wins, not stat records.

  Since the start of the 09-10 season, we're 89-29 when Rondo has more than 10 assists, 64-62 when he doesn't. I'm all for "stat padding".

If it comes in the flow of the game, thats wonderful.  And that happens very frequently - all 10+ assist games aren't the result of stat padding.  I'm just saying he has padded stats in the past before and I hope it doesn't get in the way of wins in the future.

  99% of the claims of stat padding would also fall under the category of playing unselfishly. It's like watching KG miss a close shot and claiming that he's doing that on purpose to pad his rebounding stats.

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2012, 05:07:33 PM »

Offline relja

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I've seen him what appears to be stealing rebounds from teammates.

  That's really grasping. What are you hoping to see from him, not going after rebounds that are within his reach because there's a good chance someone else on the team will get it? Haven't we seen enough games where his teammates *didn't* get rebounds that they should have?

Well at least someone on this team has the will to rebound lol
No, seriously, he's the best non PF/C rebounder in the NBA.
When you lose, the easy part is to see who gives up. Giving up is very simple. You basically take your stuff and walk away. To continue to work and to continue to compete is one of the most difficult things, especially when you really don't have anything - KG

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2012, 05:09:08 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Rondo's APG average is at 13.7... the record for the regular season is held by John Stockton at 14.5.

  He'd have a tough time beating that. That Jazz team scored about 8 points a game more than the Celts do.

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2012, 05:34:19 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Pass magic and then call it a wrap.

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2012, 05:35:42 PM »

Offline alajet

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I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.

I want wins, not stat records.

How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
He's going to say something like passing up shots for a pass. watch.

No need, you just did for me.  So you must acknowledge that you've heard of players doing this before.  If you don't think Rondo is the type of player who would, that's your opinion.  My opinion is that he would.
rondo has a FG% of over 50%.... and is taking more attempts than CP3. Is that the statistic of someone who is smart with the ball, or someone who is passing up shots for a pass?

I'm not sure where you get those FGA stats from.  CP3 (flirting near his career low in FGA/game) averages more shot attempts than Rondo (averaging his career high FGA/game) this season.  You should check that again.

I certainly am not the only one who thinks that he pads his stats.  Jeff wrote a front page article about it not too long ago quoting several other sources - http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/11/19/3665402/rondos-stat-padding-unseemly-or-no-big-deal

I like Rondo and love that he's a pass first PG.  But in my time watching Rondo play many many games, I feel like I've seen him makes plays that are very questionable if his sole objective is simply to make sure his team score points as efficiently as possible.  It is my opinion that he has turned down shots in an attempt to get assists in the past. I've seen him what appears to be stealing rebounds from teammates.  And he's not the only NBA player who I feel does stat padding.  If you have watched over 100 games of Rajon Rondo and don't feel like he's never done that, then you're entitled to your feelings and opinions as well.

Now, you sound as if Rondo's an excellent shooter from range. He has improved, for sure, but he's still streaky and if he finds a better shooter in a proper position, he'd absolutely pass.

Don't take this personal (or take if you wish to), but it's still a mystery to me how some guys on this blog can still see the negative aspects of Rondo, when he's posting 13.5-4.8-13.7 on 51% shooting and clearly catalyzing our offense the way no other point guard in this league currently does.

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2012, 06:01:17 PM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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I'm not sure how the phrase small sample size hasn't been used yet in this thread.

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2012, 06:07:50 PM »

Offline blink

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tp for you.  I love it when stats actually reinforce logical thoughts.


I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.

I want wins, not stat records.

  Since the start of the 09-10 season, we're 89-29 when Rondo has more than 10 assists, 64-62 when he doesn't. I'm all for "stat padding".

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2012, 06:13:52 PM »

Offline RyNye

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I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.

It happens.

But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.

Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.

Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.

I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.

(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2012, 06:24:43 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.

It happens.

But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.

Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.

Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.

I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.

(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)

TP

Re: Rondo chasing Stockton's 14.5 APG record
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2012, 06:28:10 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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I don't really think rondo pads his assist stats as much as hes literally become obsessed with getting his guys involved and getting them their shots..its his craft. The record is obtainable but I agree he could at least act like he isn't allergic to scoring, better at going to the basket to score then he consistently shows

That said..
Lebron doesn't Stat pad? Please all the top players do when they can