CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: lightspeed5 on November 26, 2012, 03:44:02 PM
-
Rondo's APG average is at 13.7... the record for the regular season is held by John Stockton at 14.5.
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
rondo is too smart to "pad."
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
rondo is too smart to "pad."
This.
He average 3 TO's a game. It's not pretty but that's few enough to tell everyone that he's not just trying to hard to "get the assists". The plenty assists is a result of him really finding guys in position to score. Not because he's trying too hard.
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
rondo is too smart to "pad."
"too smart to pad"? That makes no sense... or please elaborate what you mean by that. He already pads all the time by turning down easy shot attempts or stealing rebounds from teammates when in pursuit of a triple double.
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
He's going to say something like passing up shots for a pass. watch.
-
I've seen Rondo miss enough layups to think it's not a completely crazy idea that he may sometimes just be more comfortable giving up the ball to a teammate and isn't necessarily trying to pad his assist numbers.
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
He's going to say something like passing up shots for a pass. watch.
No need, you just did for me. So you must acknowledge that you've heard of players doing this before. If you don't think Rondo is the type of player who would, that's your opinion. My opinion is that he would.
-
I've seen Rondo miss enough layups to think it's not a completely crazy idea that he may sometimes just be more comfortable giving up the ball to a teammate and isn't necessarily trying to pad his assist numbers.
I'd say it's a pretty crazy idea that a player who some deem to be MVP worthy would feel more comfortable kicking the ball out because he's not confident in his ability to make layups.
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
"considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years"
Right, because he's all about himself and doesn't care about whether the team wins or loses. Nothing says that more than getting his elbow dislocated and playing through it anyway because we were in the playoffs...
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
He's going to say something like passing up shots for a pass. watch.
No need, you just did for me. So you must acknowledge that you've heard of players doing this before. If you don't think Rondo is the type of player who would, that's your opinion. My opinion is that he would.
rondo has a FG% of over 50%.... and is taking more attempts than CP3. Is that the statistic of someone who is smart with the ball, or someone who is passing up shots for a pass?
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
He's going to say something like passing up shots for a pass. watch.
No need, you just did for me. So you must acknowledge that you've heard of players doing this before. If you don't think Rondo is the type of player who would, that's your opinion. My opinion is that he would.
rondo has a FG% of over 50%.... and is taking more attempts than CP3. Is that the statistic of someone who is smart with the ball, or someone who is passing up shots for a pass?
And he's averaging 13.5ppg, just 0.2 shy of his regular season career high. I wonder sometimes if people would be happy with Rondo if he just jacked up 22+ shots a game - old school Carmelo style.
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
He's going to say something like passing up shots for a pass. watch.
No need, you just did for me. So you must acknowledge that you've heard of players doing this before. If you don't think Rondo is the type of player who would, that's your opinion. My opinion is that he would.
So he doesn't lay it up, but he sends it out to KG for a jumper? Difference?
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
Since the start of the 09-10 season, we're 89-29 when Rondo has more than 10 assists, 64-62 when he doesn't. I'm all for "stat padding".
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
He's going to say something like passing up shots for a pass. watch.
No need, you just did for me. So you must acknowledge that you've heard of players doing this before. If you don't think Rondo is the type of player who would, that's your opinion. My opinion is that he would.
rondo has a FG% of over 50%.... and is taking more attempts than CP3. Is that the statistic of someone who is smart with the ball, or someone who is passing up shots for a pass?
I'm not sure where you get those FGA stats from. CP3 (flirting near his career low in FGA/game) averages more shot attempts than Rondo (averaging his career high FGA/game) this season. You should check that again.
I certainly am not the only one who thinks that he pads his stats. Jeff wrote a front page article about it not too long ago quoting several other sources - http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/11/19/3665402/rondos-stat-padding-unseemly-or-no-big-deal
I like Rondo and love that he's a pass first PG. But in my time watching Rondo play many many games, I feel like I've seen him makes plays that are very questionable if his sole objective is simply to make sure his team score points as efficiently as possible. It is my opinion that he has turned down shots in an attempt to get assists in the past. I've seen him what appears to be stealing rebounds from teammates. And he's not the only NBA player who I feel does stat padding. If you have watched over 100 games of Rajon Rondo and don't feel like he's never done that, then you're entitled to your feelings and opinions as well.
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
Since the start of the 09-10 season, we're 89-29 when Rondo has more than 10 assists, 64-62 when he doesn't. I'm all for "stat padding".
If it comes in the flow of the game, thats wonderful. And that happens very frequently - all 10+ assist games aren't the result of stat padding. I'm just saying he has padded stats in the past before and I hope it doesn't get in the way of wins in the future.
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
He's going to say something like passing up shots for a pass. watch.
No need, you just did for me. So you must acknowledge that you've heard of players doing this before. If you don't think Rondo is the type of player who would, that's your opinion. My opinion is that he would.
rondo has a FG% of over 50%.... and is taking more attempts than CP3. Is that the statistic of someone who is smart with the ball, or someone who is passing up shots for a pass?
I'm not sure where you get those FGA stats from. CP3 (flirting near his career low in FGA/game) averages more shot attempts than Rondo (averaging his career high FGA/game) this season. You should check that again.
I certainly am not the only one who thinks that he pads his stats. Jeff wrote a front page article about it not too long ago quoting several other sources - http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/11/19/3665402/rondos-stat-padding-unseemly-or-no-big-deal
I like Rondo and love that he's a pass first PG. But in my time watching Rondo play many many games, I feel like I've seen him makes plays that are very questionable if his sole objective is simply to make sure his team score points as efficiently as possible. It is my opinion that he has turned down shots in an attempt to get assists in the past. I've seen him what appears to be stealing rebounds from teammates. And he's not the only NBA player who I feel does stat padding. If you have watched over 100 games of Rajon Rondo and don't feel like he's never done that, then you're entitled to your feelings and opinions as well.
I'm pretty sure that you would also "stat-pad" if you ever had a chance to pass Stockton or Magic at anything.
-
I've seen him what appears to be stealing rebounds from teammates.
That's really grasping. What are you hoping to see from him, not going after rebounds that are within his reach because there's a good chance someone else on the team will get it? Haven't we seen enough games where his teammates *didn't* get rebounds that they should have?
-
Some of what people view as stat-padding is also just how Rondo plays.
Rondo often will steal rebounds from other players, the reason he usually does so is so he can get the ball out on the break ASAP. If he lets the big get the board then he's just asking for the ball immediately anyways.
Plus there's the fact that we need him to crash the glass, as we're not a team that can take any rebound for granted.
Now the passing up layups is definitely something I also see. In the past he's feared going to the line, now I don't see that with him.
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
Since the start of the 09-10 season, we're 89-29 when Rondo has more than 10 assists, 64-62 when he doesn't. I'm all for "stat padding".
If it comes in the flow of the game, thats wonderful. And that happens very frequently - all 10+ assist games aren't the result of stat padding. I'm just saying he has padded stats in the past before and I hope it doesn't get in the way of wins in the future.
99% of the claims of stat padding would also fall under the category of playing unselfishly. It's like watching KG miss a close shot and claiming that he's doing that on purpose to pad his rebounding stats.
-
I've seen him what appears to be stealing rebounds from teammates.
That's really grasping. What are you hoping to see from him, not going after rebounds that are within his reach because there's a good chance someone else on the team will get it? Haven't we seen enough games where his teammates *didn't* get rebounds that they should have?
Well at least someone on this team has the will to rebound lol
No, seriously, he's the best non PF/C rebounder in the NBA.
-
Rondo's APG average is at 13.7... the record for the regular season is held by John Stockton at 14.5.
He'd have a tough time beating that. That Jazz team scored about 8 points a game more than the Celts do.
-
Pass magic and then call it a wrap.
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
How exactly can throwing the ball to his teammates to score points hurt the team?
He's going to say something like passing up shots for a pass. watch.
No need, you just did for me. So you must acknowledge that you've heard of players doing this before. If you don't think Rondo is the type of player who would, that's your opinion. My opinion is that he would.
rondo has a FG% of over 50%.... and is taking more attempts than CP3. Is that the statistic of someone who is smart with the ball, or someone who is passing up shots for a pass?
I'm not sure where you get those FGA stats from. CP3 (flirting near his career low in FGA/game) averages more shot attempts than Rondo (averaging his career high FGA/game) this season. You should check that again.
I certainly am not the only one who thinks that he pads his stats. Jeff wrote a front page article about it not too long ago quoting several other sources - http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/11/19/3665402/rondos-stat-padding-unseemly-or-no-big-deal
I like Rondo and love that he's a pass first PG. But in my time watching Rondo play many many games, I feel like I've seen him makes plays that are very questionable if his sole objective is simply to make sure his team score points as efficiently as possible. It is my opinion that he has turned down shots in an attempt to get assists in the past. I've seen him what appears to be stealing rebounds from teammates. And he's not the only NBA player who I feel does stat padding. If you have watched over 100 games of Rajon Rondo and don't feel like he's never done that, then you're entitled to your feelings and opinions as well.
Now, you sound as if Rondo's an excellent shooter from range. He has improved, for sure, but he's still streaky and if he finds a better shooter in a proper position, he'd absolutely pass.
Don't take this personal (or take if you wish to), but it's still a mystery to me how some guys on this blog can still see the negative aspects of Rondo, when he's posting 13.5-4.8-13.7 on 51% shooting and clearly catalyzing our offense the way no other point guard in this league currently does.
-
I'm not sure how the phrase small sample size hasn't been used yet in this thread.
-
tp for you. I love it when stats actually reinforce logical thoughts.
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
Since the start of the 09-10 season, we're 89-29 when Rondo has more than 10 assists, 64-62 when he doesn't. I'm all for "stat padding".
-
I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.
It happens.
But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.
Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.
Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.
I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.
(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)
-
I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.
It happens.
But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.
Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.
Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.
I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.
(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)
TP
-
I don't really think rondo pads his assist stats as much as hes literally become obsessed with getting his guys involved and getting them their shots..its his craft. The record is obtainable but I agree he could at least act like he isn't allergic to scoring, better at going to the basket to score then he consistently shows
That said..
Lebron doesn't Stat pad? Please all the top players do when they can
-
Im not gonna lie I love watching rondo rack up the assists and get some MVP consideration it's been a while since a celtic has been in consideration.. But it's getting frustrating watching RR get a fast break and stop to hand it off to someone else, or forcing an assist instead of taking an open shot or open layup.
-
I'm confused...
Is Rondo doing this only because he has 3 hall of famers to pass to?
Should we give all the credit to the said hall of famers, Garnett, Pierce and Brandon Bass, instead?
-
I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.
It happens.
But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.
Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.
Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.
I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.
(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)
Pretty much sums it up. TP
-
It'd be very rare to see Rondo pass out of an open layup to try to get more assists.
It'd be very rare to see Rondo's teammate miss the shot created by Rondo's pass out of an open layup.
-
Outside of that one handoff on the fast break, I don't see Rondo purposely passing up his own shot to "stat pad".
So far this season, he's average 11.2 FGA per game. Last year he was at 10.8. I don't think he's stat padding. Rather, he's a pass first point guard who is a floor general type, looking to set up his teammates.
-
I'm more concerned with his laziness at times on defense, there were a few possessions against Orlando where everyone is hustling around just so Rondo can hang out and allow WIDE open shots on the perimeter at the shot clock expires.
-
I feel as though Rondo definetly trys to get that extra rebound when he is 1 away from a triple double. Who wouldnt?
I also feel like he would make a point to get an extra point or assist here or there in order to break a record. He cares about personal achievements. Hes not a robot. He is a human with an ego just like every other nba player out there. Its not perfect that he cares about personal achhievements but if the achievement hurt the team, he would stop. The stat his record is all about happens to be very beneficial to the team.
He cares more about winning, however, and thats why its ok.
So he will "stat pad" if a record or something is on the table, but I know that he would never jeopardize a game in order to get an extra stat. He cares too much about winning to do that.
-
I've seen Rondo miss enough layups to think it's not a completely crazy idea that he may sometimes just be more comfortable giving up the ball to a teammate and isn't necessarily trying to pad his assist numbers.
Iv seen westbrook brick 70% of his shots.... he keeps taking them... Give me Rondo any day of the week. Best PG in the league
-
To be totally honest (and slightly ashamed of myself) I find Rondo's record chasing the lone bright spot in what otherwise is a boring regular season where we see a team half-coast to the playoffs.
Really, with the past few seasons and the way we've made it into the playoffs, and then switched it ON (Rondo in particular) I must say I prefer to have something to cheer for during the regular season.
Keep doing what you're doing Rondo. We know that in the playoffs you'll do what we NEED you to do.
Until then, the keys to this car are yours!
-
To be totally honest (and slightly ashamed of myself) I find Rondo's record chasing the lone bright spot in what otherwise is a boring regular season where we see a team half-coast to the playoffs.
Really, with the past few seasons and the way we've made it into the playoffs, and then switched it ON (Rondo in particular) I must say I prefer to have something to cheer for during the regular season.
Keep doing what you're doing Rondo. We know that in the playoffs you'll do what we NEED you to do.
Until then, the keys to this car are yours!
TP. The regular season is a slog. Rondo's streak and assists average have added some excitement to the early part of the season. I am shamelessly rooting for him to set records. Of course, I'm rooting for wins above all, but I don't mind something that adds a little spice to the 82 game pre-season.
-
To be totally honest (and slightly ashamed of myself) I find Rondo's record chasing the lone bright spot in what otherwise is a boring regular season where we see a team half-coast to the playoffs.
Really, with the past few seasons and the way we've made it into the playoffs, and then switched it ON (Rondo in particular) I must say I prefer to have something to cheer for during the regular season.
Keep doing what you're doing Rondo. We know that in the playoffs you'll do what we NEED you to do.
Until then, the keys to this car are yours!
TP. The regular season is a slog. Rondo's streak and assists average have added some excitement to the early part of the season. I am shamelessly rooting for him to set records. Of course, I'm rooting for wins above all, but I don't mind something that adds a little spice to the 82 game pre-season.
Love this.
As for the 14.5 a game. Rondo is going to have to start a streak of 20 assist games because he will need a lot more throughout the rest of the season.
-
I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.
It happens.
But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.
Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.
Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.
I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.
(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)
Pretty much sums it up. TP
Yeah this is great. Another TP. People are so quick to criticize Rondo on the little mistakes he makes, people forget to acknowledge the incredible things he brings to the game.
Like Tommy said the other night, people are always going to pick out one small detail of whatever happened in a game and pick on him for it. Perfect example, passing the ball to Bass on a fastbreak. Ok, so he gave up his lay up to give his teammate the opportunity for a wide open athletic momentum changing dunk. Seriously? This is what people are going to complain about? Did they forget about the 16 other assists that he had during the game to breakdown his opponents? Its really unbelievable how our so called "fans" can't give Rondo the credit of being at least one of the top two PG's in the league. (Number one in my eyes.)
-
I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.
It happens.
But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.
Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.
Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.
I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.
(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)
Pretty much sums it up. TP
Yeah this is great. Another TP. People are so quick to criticize Rondo on the little mistakes he makes, people forget to acknowledge the incredible things he brings to the game.
Like Tommy said the other night, people are always going to pick out one small detail of whatever happened in a game and pick on him for it. Perfect example, passing the ball to Bass on a fastbreak. Ok, so he gave up his lay up to give his teammate the opportunity for a wide open athletic momentum changing dunk. Seriously? This is what people are going to complain about? Did they forget about the 16 other assists that he had during the game to breakdown his opponents? Its really unbelievable how our so called "fans" can't give Rondo the credit of being at least one of the top two PG's in the league. (Number one in my eyes.)
Chris Paul got off to a fantastic start to the season, and a week or two ago I had him clinging to the top point guard spot with Rondo a close second. Right now, I'm leaning towards saying that Rondo is the best point guard in the game with Paul right behind him.
A Celtics win tonight and a great game from Rondo against Deron Williams' Nets would be a nice way to start to cement that position.
-
I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.
It happens.
But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.
Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.
Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.
I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.
(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)
Pretty much sums it up. TP
Yeah this is great. Another TP. People are so quick to criticize Rondo on the little mistakes he makes, people forget to acknowledge the incredible things he brings to the game.
Like Tommy said the other night, people are always going to pick out one small detail of whatever happened in a game and pick on him for it. Perfect example, passing the ball to Bass on a fastbreak. Ok, so he gave up his lay up to give his teammate the opportunity for a wide open athletic momentum changing dunk. Seriously? This is what people are going to complain about? Did they forget about the 16 other assists that he had during the game to breakdown his opponents? Its really unbelievable how our so called "fans" can't give Rondo the credit of being at least one of the top two PG's in the league. (Number one in my eyes.)
Chris Paul got off to a fantastic start to the season, and a week or two ago I had him clinging to the top point guard spot with Rondo a close second. Right now, I'm leaning towards saying that Rondo is the best point guard in the game with Paul right behind him.
A Celtics win tonight and a great game from Rondo against Deron Williams' Nets would be a nice way to start to cement that position.
So I can assume that nothing that Chris Paul does tonight will have any impact on that comparison? I'd say comparisons like this should be less at the whim of a week or two stretch of the season (or one game against a top opponent). Coaching, situations, matchups, teammates, etc... are all fluid in nature but skill level doesn't really change from week to week.
I'd find it hard to believe that CP3 was a better "player" at the start of the season and Rondo is the best "player" now. We're only 14 games into the season. Don't let 14 games color your judgment that much. Some think CP3 is the better player. Some think Rondo is the better player. Thinking that changes on a weekly basis is kind of folly, IMO.
-
I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.
It happens.
But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.
Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.
Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.
I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.
(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)
Pretty much sums it up. TP
Yeah this is great. Another TP. People are so quick to criticize Rondo on the little mistakes he makes, people forget to acknowledge the incredible things he brings to the game.
Like Tommy said the other night, people are always going to pick out one small detail of whatever happened in a game and pick on him for it. Perfect example, passing the ball to Bass on a fastbreak. Ok, so he gave up his lay up to give his teammate the opportunity for a wide open athletic momentum changing dunk. Seriously? This is what people are going to complain about? Did they forget about the 16 other assists that he had during the game to breakdown his opponents? Its really unbelievable how our so called "fans" can't give Rondo the credit of being at least one of the top two PG's in the league. (Number one in my eyes.)
Chris Paul got off to a fantastic start to the season, and a week or two ago I had him clinging to the top point guard spot with Rondo a close second. Right now, I'm leaning towards saying that Rondo is the best point guard in the game with Paul right behind him.
A Celtics win tonight and a great game from Rondo against Deron Williams' Nets would be a nice way to start to cement that position.
So I can assume that nothing that Chris Paul does tonight will have any impact on that comparison? I'd say comparisons like this should be less at the whim of a week or two stretch of the season (or one game against a top opponent). Coaching, situations, matchups, teammates, etc... are all fluid in nature but skill level doesn't really change from week to week.
I'd find it hard to believe that CP3 was a better "player" at the start of the season and Rondo is the best "player" now. We're only 14 games into the season. Don't let 14 games color your judgment that much. Some think CP3 is the better player. Some think Rondo is the better player. Thinking that changes on a weekly basis is kind of folly, IMO.
I'm just trying to be fair. At the end of last season, I thought that Rondo had surpassed Chris Paul as the best point guard in the league. Once this season started and Paul got off to a blistering start, I thought, well, maybe Chris Paul is going to have something to say about that.
Now Rondo is back in the lead. I guess instead of changing my mind from week to week or from game to game, I should just say that Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo are the two best point guards in the league and release myself from this folly.
-
While we're on the PG debate, what's up with D-Will? Still struggling with his shot (sub 40% from the field, sub 30% from 3) - did he leave his elite jump-shooting in Utah?
-
I truly hope that this becomes too out of sight at some point this season because Rondo's stat padding will hurt this team's win total considerably and I have absolutely zero doubts in my mind, considering what I've seen from Rondo over the past few years, that he will go to stat padding if he's close.
I want wins, not stat records.
I really believe it all depends on the stat. Assists, IMO, are not a selfish stat. Assists lead to wins. On the other hand, most three pointers may or may not point that way. You really need to be a high percentage shooter to have a positive effect with that shot, and that that shot could be considered a lot more more selfish .
-
I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.
It happens.
But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.
Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.
Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.
I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.
(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)
Pretty much sums it up. TP
Yeah this is great. Another TP. People are so quick to criticize Rondo on the little mistakes he makes, people forget to acknowledge the incredible things he brings to the game.
Like Tommy said the other night, people are always going to pick out one small detail of whatever happened in a game and pick on him for it. Perfect example, passing the ball to Bass on a fastbreak. Ok, so he gave up his lay up to give his teammate the opportunity for a wide open athletic momentum changing dunk. Seriously? This is what people are going to complain about? Did they forget about the 16 other assists that he had during the game to breakdown his opponents? Its really unbelievable how our so called "fans" can't give Rondo the credit of being at least one of the top two PG's in the league. (Number one in my eyes.)
Chris Paul got off to a fantastic start to the season, and a week or two ago I had him clinging to the top point guard spot with Rondo a close second. Right now, I'm leaning towards saying that Rondo is the best point guard in the game with Paul right behind him.
A Celtics win tonight and a great game from Rondo against Deron Williams' Nets would be a nice way to start to cement that position.
So I can assume that nothing that Chris Paul does tonight will have any impact on that comparison? I'd say comparisons like this should be less at the whim of a week or two stretch of the season (or one game against a top opponent). Coaching, situations, matchups, teammates, etc... are all fluid in nature but skill level doesn't really change from week to week.
I'd find it hard to believe that CP3 was a better "player" at the start of the season and Rondo is the best "player" now. We're only 14 games into the season. Don't let 14 games color your judgment that much. Some think CP3 is the better player. Some think Rondo is the better player. Thinking that changes on a weekly basis is kind of folly, IMO.
I agree with this. In fact, there is no prerequisite change in coaching, matchups, situations. Performance goes up and down, too. Chris Paul and Deron Williams have both drops in their scoring this far into the season; respectively 3.7 and 4.3 points per game and Deron Williams is shooting a career worst 39%. Partially because they are taking about three shots less than they did last season.
At any case, slumps especially in shooting are understandable and cannot possibly used as a measure of a player's abilities. That's the reason stats are not trustworthy.
It's very hard to compare Rondo with these players. He plays a couple of more minutes per game and dominates the offensive sets more. I will definitely not suggest that his stats are inflated, but it's obvious that this team structure helps the player get a good number of assists. Those little passes to KG and Bass to set up them for jumpshots are quite easy for the elite passers of this league.
Then again, I'm not taking anything away from Rondo here. I have already stated in one of threads that he's the most Kidd-alike player in the league right now. In other words, he has the most flashy assists amongst all, it seems to me. His rebounding numbers and tendency to get close to a triple-double once in a while also resemble Kidd's play from a certain perspective. He lacks a consistent three-point shot, though, something Kidd has developed over the course of his career.
Up until his relatively poor season with the Nets, I always had a tendency to pick Deron over Paul, because his size gave him a natural advantage over most of the skilled point guards in this league and he has nearly all the time had the better of Chris Paul in their duels.
Now, Rondo seems to be playing at an even higher level than those two, but I don't know if playing at a higher level for a certain period really makes you the best in your job.
This season's playoffs will be a good indicator. Despite losing four in a row, Clippers picked up quality wins to start the season and look set to be a good candidate out there in the west. Nets have a relatively limited bench in terms of production, but their starting core is nothing to look over. And the Celtics are trying to win the east again.
With all three surrounded with considerable talent, I'll be looking forward to see which one manages to impact their respective team's play-off run and lengthen it the most.
Back on topic (that was one long off-topic piece of writing from me now), I don't think 14.5 apg is something achievable.
Honestly, I don't get how John Stockton was able to be so amazing to record 7 seasons with 1000+ assists.
For comparison, Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Rajon Rondo has a combined number of zero if we were to look at 1000 assists barrier.
All in all, Stockton's records should better stay as Stockton's records.
-
Would be cool if Stockton attended tonight's game, and if ESPN broadcasts rondos 48th game next month with magic Johnson.
-
I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.
It happens.
But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.
Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.
Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.
I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.
(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)
Pretty much sums it up. TP
Yeah this is great. Another TP. People are so quick to criticize Rondo on the little mistakes he makes, people forget to acknowledge the incredible things he brings to the game.
Like Tommy said the other night, people are always going to pick out one small detail of whatever happened in a game and pick on him for it. Perfect example, passing the ball to Bass on a fastbreak. Ok, so he gave up his lay up to give his teammate the opportunity for a wide open athletic momentum changing dunk. Seriously? This is what people are going to complain about? Did they forget about the 16 other assists that he had during the game to breakdown his opponents? Its really unbelievable how our so called "fans" can't give Rondo the credit of being at least one of the top two PG's in the league. (Number one in my eyes.)
Chris Paul got off to a fantastic start to the season, and a week or two ago I had him clinging to the top point guard spot with Rondo a close second. Right now, I'm leaning towards saying that Rondo is the best point guard in the game with Paul right behind him.
What was so fantastic about Paul's start to the season?
-
While we're on the PG debate, what's up with D-Will? Still struggling with his shot (sub 40% from the field, sub 30% from 3) - did he leave his elite jump-shooting in Utah?
He's playing with some injuries.
-
I don't think anyone can deny that there are times in games where Rondo makes a bone-headed move, passing when he should go for the lay-up or forcing a pass and getting a turnover.
It happens.
But guess what? Those stupid mistakes happen to EVERY player. What about Russell Westbrook, who some people on this blog would prefer to Rondo? He is terrible at learning when to shoot and when to pass. Hell, even Lebron James makes mistakes.
Focusing on these mistakes at the expense of the rest of the game is an incredibly foolish way to evaluate player performance.
Unless somebody cares to provide some PROOF that Rondo has cost us games by passing up shots, or that he makes more of such mistakes than any other high usage player, then I don't think this is even worth arguing about. As has already been posted, our record is significantly better in games where Rondo gets 10+ assists.
I do expect Rondo, as he enters his prime in the next couple of years, will get smarter with how he plays, and we will see a spike in assists and a decrease in turnovers, and probably a scoring spike as well. But callously dismissing the player's performance because you can't seem to get over a tiny handful of bad plays says more about you than it does about Rondo.
(I mean, come on, I am as willing to criticize Rondo as anyone, but I can't think of more than a half dozen plays this entire season where Rondo has made a terrible pass-out-of-shot decision)
Pretty much sums it up. TP
Yeah this is great. Another TP. People are so quick to criticize Rondo on the little mistakes he makes, people forget to acknowledge the incredible things he brings to the game.
Like Tommy said the other night, people are always going to pick out one small detail of whatever happened in a game and pick on him for it. Perfect example, passing the ball to Bass on a fastbreak. Ok, so he gave up his lay up to give his teammate the opportunity for a wide open athletic momentum changing dunk. Seriously? This is what people are going to complain about? Did they forget about the 16 other assists that he had during the game to breakdown his opponents? Its really unbelievable how our so called "fans" can't give Rondo the credit of being at least one of the top two PG's in the league. (Number one in my eyes.)
Chris Paul got off to a fantastic start to the season, and a week or two ago I had him clinging to the top point guard spot with Rondo a close second. Right now, I'm leaning towards saying that Rondo is the best point guard in the game with Paul right behind him.
What was so fantastic about Paul's start to the season?
I thought he was pretty much what you would expect. Nothing unreal.
While we're on the PG debate, what's up with D-Will? Still struggling with his shot (sub 40% from the field, sub 30% from 3) - did he leave his elite jump-shooting in Utah?
He's playing with some injuries.
True. Nothing serious to cause him miss time yet, but still disturbing.