Celtics (9-7) at Hornets (7-8) Game #16 11/19/18

[liam]

Marcus Smart team worst -12

The plus players were: Theis, Rozier, Irving, and Brown. They all played under 20 minutes except Kyrie.

[SCeltic34]

When Brad pulled Kyrie in the 4th, that was game...

That and insisting on gimpy Hayward down the stretch instead of Brown when Brown actually showed some initiative and intensity today. There's like no logic or consistency with him.

Came to ask about this.  Only was able to tune in in the 4th.  Looks like Brown didn't play the last 15 minutes or so, and only played 19 total.  His box score stats look good for his minutes, but only Baynes and Theis played less.  So what was up with Brown tonight, did he not hustle, or miss some defense assignments, or something?

Actually is he in the dog house?  Every regular starter, including Hayward, has multiple 30+ minute games over the last 6 games, except for Brown.

None of us know the answer to this.  And many of us were trying to communicate telepathically to Brad to put Jaylen in and take Hayward out.

Brown was having an efficient game.  He was OK defensively.  Hayward was doing next to nothing in the 4th quarter.  Brown was well-rested and probably would have been a better choice to close the game.

[gouki88]

Marcus Smart team worst -12

The plus players were: Theis, Rozier, Irving, and Brown. They all played under 20 minutes except Kyrie.

Theis was especially good as a rim rolling big. Hornets had no answer

[liam]

Maybe we should have tried Jaylen on Kemba to give him more length to get over.

Good point! A fast long defender might work...

Because he looked so good on him when he was switched in the first half........

Weren't we ahead in the 1st half?

It was a back and forth game in the 1st half too. Selective memory is ripe around these parts.

I don't enjoy losing, but i'm not sure the narrative that this is the worst loss of the season and Jaylen could've saved us is the hill we should be dying on.

We were ahead 56-54 at the half. We also gained a point in the 3rd.

[RJ87]

When Brad pulled Kyrie in the 4th, that was game...

That and insisting on gimpy Hayward down the stretch instead of Brown when Brown actually showed some initiative and intensity today. There's like no logic or consistency with him.

When does Brad start getting murmurs about the hot seat? Seriously. NBA coaches are a dime a dozen. You don't get this type of stacked talent on one team all the time. If nice guy Brad isn't getting it done, we can't afford wasting this season with him not motivating players and making inexplicable rotation decisions costing us games. That's just asking Kyrie to leave next year.

People can think this is a hot take all they want, but it's unequivocally clear that the coaching staff has been a complete failure top to bottom this year, which is a major part of our struggles due to lack of preparation and inept in-game decision-making. Someone else can do the job if Brad can't, because it's looking more and more likely that Brad is more of a "maximizer" coach that can't actually manage this level of talent.

Yeah. This is a hot take.

Just because Brad isn't breaking chairs on the sideline, it doesn't mean he's not getting into his players. He's called this team out for settling for 2's, he's benched Tatum (for a quarter at least), he's called out their mental toughness, he's changed the starting lineup. At the end of the day, players have to execute. He can't secure rebounds for Al. He can't pull Rozier's head of his butt, he can't guard Kemba. At some point, there needs to be a players only meeting and guys have to step up.

No, the fact that we're still getting inconsistent effort from guys shows that Brad is not getting to his players.

And none of this even touches on the fact that Brad's in-game decision-making is subpar and his rotations are arbitrary with no logical basis, which is a problem he has dealt with since Day 1 in 2014. It doesn't matter how genius is he in his preparation, it's all for naught if he's simply incapable of making sound in-game decisions or adjusting to the other team.

And at what point do we hold players accountable? It's interesting that the guy with the ring and an understanding of what it takes to win is showing up to start the season, while the guys that have been christened the next coming without earning it have struggled.

[mctyson]

The reality is that they choked the game away offensively.  Up 98-88 with 9 min left in the 4th, and they scored 6 more points in the NEXT 5 MINUTES.  You cannot play like that if you want to be win games in the NBA.

And let me be one of the first to say that Horford is a major problem right now.

[jpotter33]

When Brad pulled Kyrie in the 4th, that was game...

That and insisting on gimpy Hayward down the stretch instead of Brown when Brown actually showed some initiative and intensity today. There's like no logic or consistency with him.

Came to ask about this.  Only was able to tune in in the 4th.  Looks like Brown didn't play the last 15 minutes or so, and only played 19 total.  His box score stats look good for his minutes, but only Baynes and Theis played less.  So what was up with Brown tonight, did he not hustle, or miss some defense assignments, or something?

Actually is he in the dog house?  Every regular starter, including Hayward, has multiple 30+ minute games over the last 6 games, except for Brown.

No, actually I thought this was one of Brown's better games. He was attacking the hoop, taking good shots, and playing his regular solid individual defense. He was doing everything he needed for his role.

There's no real good excuse for why Brown didn't play down the stretch with Hayward playing instead.

While nobody would've stopped Kemba tonight, I do wonder if Brown's individual defense and greater size and length would've been better on him than Smart. As good as Smart is, he's not as good defensively on super speedy guards like Kemba. Brown's foot speed and increased length might've proved a different look for Kemba that threw him off.

[celtics4ever33]

Smart calls team out

-42 since, team leader in +/- every game since

[ozgod]

When Brad pulled Kyrie in the 4th, that was game...

That and insisting on gimpy Hayward down the stretch instead of Brown when Brown actually showed some initiative and intensity today. There's like no logic or consistency with him.

When does Brad start getting murmurs about the hot seat? Seriously. NBA coaches are a dime a dozen. You don't get this type of stacked talent on one team all the time. If nice guy Brad isn't getting it done, we can't afford wasting this season with him not motivating players and making inexplicable rotation decisions costing us games. That's just asking Kyrie to leave next year.

People can think this is a hot take all they want, but it's unequivocally clear that the coaching staff has been a complete failure top to bottom this year, which is a major part of our struggles due to lack of preparation and inept in-game decision-making. Someone else can do the job if Brad can't, because it's looking more and more likely that Brad is more of a "maximizer" coach that can't actually manage this level of talent.

You feel Brad should be replaced? With who? And a year after we were 1 game away from the finals and 2 years from making the ECF?

I don't know if he should be replaced... yet. But he does clearly need some pressure put on him, as he's largely operated free from scrutiny in the press and everywhere else.

Look, he might just not be a coach that can manage this level of talent and egos, which quite honestly wouldn't surprise me given his character. Simply put - he's too nice. I don't think you can try to be everyone's friend and try to equally distribute the playing time like Brad is clearly trying to do.

But if we're still playing this type of inconsistent ball with inconsistent effort and terrible rotations, yeah, I'll be onboard with switching coaches. But for now Brad at least needs some pressure put on him to figure this out, because this is a giant waste of talent as it is right now.

Knowing Danny I'm pretty sure that pressure's already being applied.

I agree that his biggest issue right now is he doesn't know who his best lineup is. The previous starting lineup of Kyrie, Jayson, Jaylen, Gordon and Al seem to be like having a lineup of Ferraris when you might need a Ford truck or two to do the heavy lifting.

[RJ87]

Maybe we should have tried Jaylen on Kemba to give him more length to get over.

Good point! A fast long defender might work...

Because he looked so good on him when he was switched in the first half........

Weren't we ahead in the 1st half?

It was a back and forth game in the 1st half too. Selective memory is ripe around these parts.

I don't enjoy losing, but i'm not sure the narrative that this is the worst loss of the season and Jaylen could've saved us is the hill we should be dying on.

We were ahead 56-54 at the half. We also gained a point in the 3rd.

And we were down 10 at one point during the 1st half... what is your point?

[gouki88]

When Brad pulled Kyrie in the 4th, that was game...

That and insisting on gimpy Hayward down the stretch instead of Brown when Brown actually showed some initiative and intensity today. There's like no logic or consistency with him.

When does Brad start getting murmurs about the hot seat? Seriously. NBA coaches are a dime a dozen. You don't get this type of stacked talent on one team all the time. If nice guy Brad isn't getting it done, we can't afford wasting this season with him not motivating players and making inexplicable rotation decisions costing us games. That's just asking Kyrie to leave next year.

People can think this is a hot take all they want, but it's unequivocally clear that the coaching staff has been a complete failure top to bottom this year, which is a major part of our struggles due to lack of preparation and inept in-game decision-making. Someone else can do the job if Brad can't, because it's looking more and more likely that Brad is more of a "maximizer" coach that can't actually manage this level of talent.

Yeah. This is a hot take.

Just because Brad isn't breaking chairs on the sideline, it doesn't mean he's not getting into his players. He's called this team out for settling for 2's, he's benched Tatum (for a quarter at least), he's called out their mental toughness, he's changed the starting lineup. At the end of the day, players have to execute. He can't secure rebounds for Al. He can't pull Rozier's head of his butt, he can't guard Kemba. At some point, there needs to be a players only meeting and guys have to step up.

No, the fact that we're still getting inconsistent effort from guys shows that Brad is not getting to his players.

And none of this even touches on the fact that Brad's in-game decision-making is subpar and his rotations are arbitrary with no logical basis, which is a problem he has dealt with since Day 1 in 2014. It doesn't matter how genius is he in his preparation, it's all for naught if he's simply incapable of making sound in-game decisions or adjusting to the other team.

And at what point do we hold players accountable? It's interesting that the guy with the ring and an understanding of what it takes to win is showing up to start the season, while the guys that have been christened the next coming without earning it have struggled.

In addition to Kyrie's comments about wanting a veteran who knows what it takes, and how guys aren't playing their role, it all seems quite [dang]ing for our guys

[CelticSooner]

[ozgod]

The reality is that they choked the game away offensively.  Up 98-88 with 9 min left in the 4th, and they scored 6 more points in the NEXT 5 MINUTES.  You cannot play like that if you want to be win games in the NBA.

And let me be one of the first to say that Horford is a major problem right now.

It's pretty much the position Toronto was in when we beat them. They lost a game they shouldn't have lost because they fell apart at the end and in overtime and Kyrie scored 43.

[RJ87]

When Brad pulled Kyrie in the 4th, that was game...

That and insisting on gimpy Hayward down the stretch instead of Brown when Brown actually showed some initiative and intensity today. There's like no logic or consistency with him.

When does Brad start getting murmurs about the hot seat? Seriously. NBA coaches are a dime a dozen. You don't get this type of stacked talent on one team all the time. If nice guy Brad isn't getting it done, we can't afford wasting this season with him not motivating players and making inexplicable rotation decisions costing us games. That's just asking Kyrie to leave next year.

People can think this is a hot take all they want, but it's unequivocally clear that the coaching staff has been a complete failure top to bottom this year, which is a major part of our struggles due to lack of preparation and inept in-game decision-making. Someone else can do the job if Brad can't, because it's looking more and more likely that Brad is more of a "maximizer" coach that can't actually manage this level of talent.

Yeah. This is a hot take.

Just because Brad isn't breaking chairs on the sideline, it doesn't mean he's not getting into his players. He's called this team out for settling for 2's, he's benched Tatum (for a quarter at least), he's called out their mental toughness, he's changed the starting lineup. At the end of the day, players have to execute. He can't secure rebounds for Al. He can't pull Rozier's head of his butt, he can't guard Kemba. At some point, there needs to be a players only meeting and guys have to step up.

No, the fact that we're still getting inconsistent effort from guys shows that Brad is not getting to his players.

And none of this even touches on the fact that Brad's in-game decision-making is subpar and his rotations are arbitrary with no logical basis, which is a problem he has dealt with since Day 1 in 2014. It doesn't matter how genius is he in his preparation, it's all for naught if he's simply incapable of making sound in-game decisions or adjusting to the other team.

And at what point do we hold players accountable? It's interesting that the guy with the ring and an understanding of what it takes to win is showing up to start the season, while the guys that have been christened the next coming without earning it have struggled.

In addition to Kyrie's comments about wanting a veteran who knows what it takes, and how guys aren't playing their role, it all seems quite [dang]ing for our guys

Thank you! Someone finally understands the subtext here.

[jpotter33]

Rozier +6

Smart -12

Should have played Rozier more

Lol context is hard, huh?