CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: CelticsElite on November 26, 2017, 09:09:58 PM
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This guy fell off the face of the planet....Paul George had a terrible night offensively vs the mavs, as he scored 2 points on 1-of-12 shooting and 0-of-4 from three.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPi0fAiXkAAwRfP?format=jpg)
https://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2017/11/25/16700442/thunder-vs-mavericks-score-2017-well-crap-that-was-awful
The Thunder were horrific all night and dropped this game to the 4-15 Mavericks, 97-81. The Thunder remain winless on the road against the Western Conference and are now once again 3 games under .500, with two humiliating performances following Wednesday’s big win over the Warriors.
What a train wreck that thunder team is. Remember all the people ready to give presti GM of the year? He cashed in on Melo and george and its looking like an epic failure so far
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Arguably it was an epic success because it got Russ to sign long term. He didn't give up that much for either player in the scheme of things.
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so we must have been reading the same articles .
Lots of hate thrown at him from OKC fans
1-11 wil get ya lots of hate .....ask Smart .
My guess is PG3 is now bummed about being in OKC and their losing ways. He sees a dead end .
He acted like this in Indy too.
PG3 is just killing time at OKC till he can flee to Lakers for max money and MAX TV time ......plus he figures If your gonna be stuck on a suck team .....might as well do it from his home area and in LA and enjoy the weather . George maybe ultimately be much like Melo ......happy for a max paycheck and not much more .
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"Paul George can only hit those game winners in gatorade commercials"
- Scal
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Arguably it was an epic success because it got Russ to sign long term. He didn't give up that much for either player in the scheme of things.
Hottest and most correct take of the day. It literally doesn't matter how well this version goes over, because it got Russ to sign. Melo is off the books soon, and George could be gone this year. They served their purpose. They build around Russ going forward.
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Paul George was a tenuous trade for us because it was likely only a one year rental. But I never imagined that we would get Kyrie at the time. There is simply no question that we are better off. Same for any potential Jimmy Butler trades.
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"Paul George can only hit those game winners in gatorade commercials"
- Scal
Hahahaha, funny cuz it's true.
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PG13 has never been the same since he has battled injuries.
Im hoping this is not something that GH might become..I suppose it will just be an issue of confidence...but didn't Danny Granger also suffered getting back to form when he came back from injuries but couldn't do it and was out of the league even before he reached 30?
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Paul George isn’t the problem in OKC. He’s scored, defended and shot well overall.
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Paul George isn’t the problem in OKC. He’s scored, defended and shot well overall.
I think Russ is the problem.
I also think Presti is really overrated as a GM.
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Melo is subtraction by addition. PG may have had one bad game but he's still a fine player.
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Arguably it was an epic success because it got Russ to sign long term. He didn't give up that much for either player in the scheme of things.
Hottest and most correct take of the day. It literally doesn't matter how well this version goes over, because it got Russ to sign. Melo is off the books soon, and George could be gone this year. They served their purpose. They build around Russ going forward.
Which puts them the team exactly where the Clippers are with their signing of Blake Griffin. Not great.
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Arguably it was an epic success because it got Russ to sign long term. He didn't give up that much for either player in the scheme of things.
Hottest and most correct take of the day. It literally doesn't matter how well this version goes over, because it got Russ to sign. Melo is off the books soon, and George could be gone this year. They served their purpose. They build around Russ going forward.
i heard from one of the main podcasts that the rumor is this...russ went overseas to get some knee plasma or something to that effect, with the plan to not sign the extension. when he didn't recover as well as he had hoped he decided to not risk it and sign...but both or one may be true
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Arguably it was an epic success because it got Russ to sign long term. He didn't give up that much for either player in the scheme of things.
Hottest and most correct take of the day. It literally doesn't matter how well this version goes over, because it got Russ to sign. Melo is off the books soon, and George could be gone this year. They served their purpose. They build around Russ going forward.
And where will that get them exactly? They are going to be paying Russ like $40M a season eventually. So let’s lose PG13 for nothing to the Lakers and let Melo walk, but they still have Russ locked up!
What happens next? You have a disgruntled star making so much money without the ability to add talent around them or the willingness to deal him to bring back $35M+ in (most likely) bad contracts.
These new supermaxes are going to crush teams eventually, and I believe that was the point of them, so you can’t have 3-4 max guys together anymore. Some may have 2, but 3 seems impossible even if the cap balloons. Parity may be around the corner.
I don’t even think the Warriors can keep their core very much longer. Will the C’s be able to extend Marcus? Then give Kyrie a new contract while doing the same for Brown/Tatum. All while finding a way to retain Horford?
So either we go back to the days of one- or two-star teams or the NBA eventually going to an even more lenient soft cap.
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Melo is subtraction by addition. PG may have had one bad game but he's still a fine player.
Probably will be addition by subtraction after this year. I imagine the thunder will be better without melo, but that is just me.
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Paul George isn’t the problem in OKC. He’s scored, defended and shot well overall.
I think Russ is the problem.
I also think Presti is really overrated as a GM.
I agree with your Westbrook assessment. He may be the best one-man team in the league, but how on earth do you build a winning team around him? I have no idea...
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Paul George isn’t the problem in OKC. He’s scored, defended and shot well overall.
I think Russ is the problem.
I also think Presti is really overrated as a GM.
I agree with your Westbrook assessment. He may be the best one-man team in the league, but how on earth do you build a winning team around him? I have no idea...
you can't build around Westbrook. He's a professional statpadder. His style of play isn't winning basketball
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Melo is subtraction by addition. PG may have had one bad game but he's still a fine player.
Probably will be addition by subtraction after this year. I imagine the thunder will be better without melo, but that is just me.
you think melo is not opting in to that 27 mil salary next season?
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No way melo opts out unless he gets desperate to ring chase
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Paul George isn’t the problem in OKC. He’s scored, defended and shot well overall.
I think Russ is the problem.
I also think Presti is really overrated as a GM.
I agree with your Westbrook assessment. He may be the best one-man team in the league, but how on earth do you build a winning team around him? I have no idea...
you can't build around Westbrook. He's a professional statpadder. His style of play isn't winning basketball
Exactly why Westbrook was never my MVP.
Last 2 years he was/is about 12-8th best player in the league, his team was/is 12-8th best too.
He is unable to maximize the talent around him and only knows to play one way, the RW way, regardless if he is on a non-playoff team or contender.
Before those 2 years, KD left him as he correctly realized that he will never win with him.
Fans always got turned on by raw stats, even when they are meaningless.
I guess they like to cling the raw numbers as they give them a (false) sense of game comprehension, in a simplified graphical manner.
As for PG13
The sides
OKC, CELTICS, and PG13
Why would they do it?
OKC - only if their current play (8-11 now) continues and till the trade deadline, and it becomes clear that Paul won't stay and they are looking to make a move while he is still theirs. Trading him to a contender would be a good look for them. Much better look than trading him to a bottom feeder.
CELTICS - Great addition to the playoffs, true Gordon Haywards substitution, cool PG-GH injury connection and GH would just slip in his shoes in the 2018-19 season. Our 1st rounder could do it
PG13 - It would be nice for him to get a championship before he inevitably goes to a team that can give him a max deal. He would be "released" in that sense.
I feel like this is a perfect scenario for all sides but it would require some serious salary machinations.
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Classic case of looking at the worst example of a player and assuming the same results if he was with our team. Paul George would look amazing in CBS' system. The issue with the Thunder is Westbrook and coaching. Westbrook's style of play is too ball dominant. Unfortunately he hasn't had a coach who challenges him to improve other areas of his game.
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Classic case of looking at the worst example of a player and assuming the same results if he was with our team. Paul George would look amazing in CBS' system. The issue with the Thunder is Westbrook and coaching. Westbrook's style of play is too ball dominant. Unfortunately he hasn't had a coach who challenges him to improve other areas of his game.
Absolutely correct. The culture and the environment in the C organisation has done miracles bringing forward the talent in many players . Kyrie is trying to play defence ! That's more than a miracle!
So can agree that PG looks awful in OKC but I can't say we are lucky we didn't get him cause PG in Green would have been a very different player
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Sounds like George had an awful night and the Thunder have been a disaster so far but George has arguably been their best player. He's averaging 20-6-3, knocking down 40% of his 3's and leading the league in steals.
I'm pretty happy with the way things shook out for the Celtics this summer (the Hayward injury notwithstanding) but the idea of having Paul George on this team is still appealing, even in a fantasy way.
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Arguably it was an epic success because it got Russ to sign long term. He didn't give up that much for either player in the scheme of things.
Hottest and most correct take of the day. It literally doesn't matter how well this version goes over, because it got Russ to sign. Melo is off the books soon, and George could be gone this year. They served their purpose. They build around Russ going forward.
And where will that get them exactly? They are going to be paying Russ like $40M a season eventually. So let’s lose PG13 for nothing to the Lakers and let Melo walk, but they still have Russ locked up!
What happens next? You have a disgruntled star making so much money without the ability to add talent around them or the willingness to deal him to bring back $35M+ in (most likely) bad contracts.
These new supermaxes are going to crush teams eventually, and I believe that was the point of them, so you can’t have 3-4 max guys together anymore. Some may have 2, but 3 seems impossible even if the cap balloons. Parity may be around the corner.
I don’t even think the Warriors can keep their core very much longer. Will the C’s be able to extend Marcus? Then give Kyrie a new contract while doing the same for Brown/Tatum. All while finding a way to retain Horford?
So either we go back to the days of one- or two-star teams or the NBA eventually going to an even more lenient soft cap.
My post was misleading. I'm not saying it's good or bad that the saddled up to Westbrook, just that it was the main goal.
I agree it probably wasn't the best look.Westbrook will not be the same player he is now once he is getting 35 or 40 million a year. His athleticism has to wane at some point, and when it does, his game will drop a bit.
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Rather have Brown or Tatum. Their young legs and energy is important. The old guys want to skip the regular season and just play during the playoffs.
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Rather have Brown or Tatum. Their young legs and energy is important. The old guys want to skip the regular season and just play during the playoffs.
The trade this summer was Crowder, Smart, and Boston's 2018 1st.
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I would rather have Paul George than Hayward. Not saying that Hayward is a bad player, but I still think George is the better player of the two.
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I would rather have Paul George than Hayward. Not saying that Hayward is a bad player, but I still think George is the better player of the two.
Boston could have had both (though wouldn't have been able to make the Irving trade).
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I would rather have Paul George than Hayward. Not saying that Hayward is a bad player, but I still think George is the better player of the two.
Tbh disagree with that. Next to Kyrie I'd prefer Hayward
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I'd like to have George but not at the expense of Kyrie or Hayward and certainly not if he would have been a 1 yr rental.
I think if we would have got Butler and/or George back in the summer there is no way we would have got Kyrie. Phew. A lucky break just like that stupid trade proposal to get Winslow in the draft. Thanks Jordan! You saved Danny's ass.
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Not saying his recent performance is related to his injury from a couple summers ago, but this quote from George last month, talking about Hayward's injury, makes me a bit nervous:
Just being on the court, I'm not as explosive, I'm not as bouncy as I was. It's something I've got to live with now. Thankfully, I was able to gain, mentally, to learn the game a different way during my time off.
Desperately hoping GH comes back with the same spring as before. Even a slight change in his physical ability could have a dramatic effect.
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Relevant article from old friend Kevin O'Connor.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/11/27/16702738/nba-russell-westbrook-oklahoma-city-thunder-problem
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At this point, I would love to see the Lakers throw a max deal at George, thrusting them in to full-blown mediocrity for the next half decade.
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Relevant article from old friend Kevin O'Connor.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/11/27/16702738/nba-russell-westbrook-oklahoma-city-thunder-problem
I posted an article during the first week of the season where Melo and George said they would follow Westbrook's lead. One month later and it looks like nothing has changed. The Thunder NEED to implement a motion style offense but it's too late at this point. This should have been the priority during training camp.
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Relevant article from old friend Kevin O'Connor.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/11/27/16702738/nba-russell-westbrook-oklahoma-city-thunder-problem
I posted an article during the first week of the season where Melo and George said they would follow Westbrook's lead. One month later and it looks like nothing has changed. The Thunder NEED to implement a motion style offense but it's too late at this point. This should have been the priority during training camp.
They don't even need a full motion offense as much as they need some sort of ball movement.
A team with such talented offensive players should not be so easy to defend overall, even with their somewhat lacking shooting.
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At this point, I would love to see the Lakers throw a max deal at George, thrusting them in to full-blown mediocrity for the next half decade.
with out Lebron coming though the door to led the way ......thats exactly what would happen .
Kuzma and George are kinda redundant IMO . Kuzma is cheapO scoring and is a deal.
There is only a couple or so players that can thrust Lakers into contention . they are not getting Townes , Davis , Simmons or Embiid .
Basically ......Lakers nation is on pins and needles ...waiting on the Lebron decision 3.0 to unfold.
Lakers just are not patient or smart enough with out Jerry West to rebuild from with in ...impatientence will be their undoing.
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Lebron to Philly or NYK, or just staying in CLE, makes far more sense than to LAL, unless the Celtics somehow miraculously win NBA Championship, and GSW fall apart in the process. Otherwise seems destined to stay in East to maximize chances of continuing to play in Finals for a few more seasons.
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I still think if the OKC figures it out they pose the biggest threat to the Warriors. They are the one team that has enough offensive and defensive firepower (and at the right positions) to really give the Warriors fits in a series. You saw what they could be in the game they played earlier this year. Westbrook is a match-up nightmare for Curry. George will make Durant work on both ends of the floor. Roberson is a great defender to handle Thompson. Anthony pulls Green out of the paint or can easily post up Iggy if they play smaller. Adams and Patterson are an interesting combo at center. Grant, Felton, Abrines, and Huestis are quality bench guards/wings. They clearly have some growing pains, but if they figure it out, the West should take notice.
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Also fwiw the Thunder have the point differential of a good team. I think they'll struggle for a while and then breakout once some bounces and chemistry come to together for them.
I also think that there is no way Paul George stays there at the end of this season.
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Relevant article from old friend Kevin O'Connor.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/11/27/16702738/nba-russell-westbrook-oklahoma-city-thunder-problem
I posted an article during the first week of the season where Melo and George said they would follow Westbrook's lead. One month later and it looks like nothing has changed. The Thunder NEED to implement a motion style offense but it's too late at this point. This should have been the priority during training camp.
They don't even need a full motion offense as much as they need some sort of ball movement.
A team with such talented offensive players should not be so easy to defend overall, even with their somewhat lacking shooting.
It makes you wonder what they actually talk about during film sessions. If I remember correctly both Melo and PG are well above 40% on catch and shoot threes over the past 3 seasons. Melo might even be closer to 45%. You would think that these guys would like the idea of easier looks.
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I still think if the OKC figures it out they pose the biggest threat to the Warriors. They are the one team that has enough offensive and defensive firepower (and at the right positions) to really give the Warriors fits in a series. You saw what they could be in the game they played earlier this year. Westbrook is a match-up nightmare for Curry. George will make Durant work on both ends of the floor. Roberson is a great defender to handle Thompson. Anthony pulls Green out of the paint or can easily post up Iggy if they play smaller. Adams and Patterson are an interesting combo at center. Grant, Felton, Abrines, and Huestis are quality bench guards/wings. They clearly have some growing pains, but if they figure it out, the West should take notice.
Not sure how you come up with this stuff but OKC's bench looks absolutely pathetic. Reminds me of how you used to overrate all of Philly's scrubs who aren't even in the league anymore. Huestis averages 2 points and has a PER of 3. Abrines averages 4 points and has a PER of 6. They aren't NBA players.
I don't see the team making much noise. Besides having no bench they seem to play pretty lazy. I think George is the best piece on the whole team. Westbrook is a ballhog who tries to do way too much, Melo is a ballhog who does far too little except for shot attempts. I'm not impressed at all with the team.
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I still think if the OKC figures it out they pose the biggest threat to the Warriors. They are the one team that has enough offensive and defensive firepower (and at the right positions) to really give the Warriors fits in a series. You saw what they could be in the game they played earlier this year. Westbrook is a match-up nightmare for Curry. George will make Durant work on both ends of the floor. Roberson is a great defender to handle Thompson. Anthony pulls Green out of the paint or can easily post up Iggy if they play smaller. Adams and Patterson are an interesting combo at center. Grant, Felton, Abrines, and Huestis are quality bench guards/wings. They clearly have some growing pains, but if they figure it out, the West should take notice.
Not sure how you come up with this stuff but OKC's bench looks absolutely pathetic. Reminds me of how you used to overrate all of Philly's scrubs who aren't even in the league anymore. Huestis averages 2 points and has a PER of 3. Abrines averages 4 points and has a PER of 6. They aren't NBA players.
I don't see the team making much noise. Besides having no bench they seem to play pretty lazy. I think George is the best piece on the whole team. Westbrook is a ballhog who tries to do way too much, Melo is a ballhog who does far too little except for shot attempts. I'm not impressed at all with the team.
Abrines and Huestis are 9th and 10th men. San Antonio for example has Bryn Forbes and Brandon Paul in those slots right now. Houston has 37 year old Nene and Tarik Black manning those spots. The Warriors have Omri Casspi and Kevon Looney (though 37 year old West has played less, so maybe he bumps them down a slot). Even Boston's 9th and 10th men are Semi and Theis (who have played well for rookies, but aren't exactly world beaters and are rookies). I'd take my chances with Abrines and Huestis as compared to any of those teams 9th and 10th men, especially Abrines who had a fairly decorated European career before coming to OKC prior to last season.
Over at bball-ref, OKC's projected W/L is 12-7. They have the 2nd best DRTG at 101.4 (giving up just 98.1 ppg). Their ORTG is 105.4 (21st) and they are scoring 102 (23rd). Their SRS is 2.96 or 6th out of 30. The metrics love OKC. They've had a lot of close losses and have blown out teams when they win. As they find a bit more consistency and comfort, they will start winning some of the close games they've been losing and their record will start to reflect that.
OKC is the most dangerous team in the NBA if they can figure it out and they have the talent to figure it out.
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I still think if the OKC figures it out they pose the biggest threat to the Warriors. They are the one team that has enough offensive and defensive firepower (and at the right positions) to really give the Warriors fits in a series. You saw what they could be in the game they played earlier this year. Westbrook is a match-up nightmare for Curry. George will make Durant work on both ends of the floor. Roberson is a great defender to handle Thompson. Anthony pulls Green out of the paint or can easily post up Iggy if they play smaller. Adams and Patterson are an interesting combo at center. Grant, Felton, Abrines, and Huestis are quality bench guards/wings. They clearly have some growing pains, but if they figure it out, the West should take notice.
Not sure how you come up with this stuff but OKC's bench looks absolutely pathetic. Reminds me of how you used to overrate all of Philly's scrubs who aren't even in the league anymore. Huestis averages 2 points and has a PER of 3. Abrines averages 4 points and has a PER of 6. They aren't NBA players.
I don't see the team making much noise. Besides having no bench they seem to play pretty lazy. I think George is the best piece on the whole team. Westbrook is a ballhog who tries to do way too much, Melo is a ballhog who does far too little except for shot attempts. I'm not impressed at all with the team.
Abrines and Huestis are 9th and 10th men. San Antonio for example has Bryn Forbes and Brandon Paul in those slots right now. Houston has 37 year old Nene and Tarik Black manning those spots. The Warriors have Omri Casspi and Kevon Looney (though 37 year old West has played less, so maybe he bumps them down a slot). Even Boston's 9th and 10th men are Semi and Theis (who have played well for rookies, but aren't exactly world beaters and are rookies). I'd take my chances with Abrines and Huestis as compared to any of those teams 9th and 10th men, especially Abrines who had a fairly decorated European career before coming to OKC prior to last season.
Over at bball-ref, OKC's projected W/L is 12-7. They have the 2nd best DRTG at 101.4 (giving up just 98.1 ppg). Their ORTG is 105.4 (21st) and they are scoring 102 (23rd). Their SRS is 2.96 or 6th out of 30. The metrics love OKC. They've had a lot of close losses and have blown out teams when they win. As they find a bit more consistency and comfort, they will start winning some of the close games they've been losing and their record will start to reflect that.
OKC is the most dangerous team in the NBA if they can figure it out and they have the talent to figure it out.
Their problems extend way further than comfort in playing together. Teams that rank at the bottom of the league in passes per game are never able to get over the hump in the modern NBA. The Cavs managed to win a title while ranking in the middle of the pack, but this was before Durant joined the Warriors. I would be absolutely shocked if OKC was able to fundamentally change the way their offense operates to the point that they could compete with the Warriors. They needed to focus on changing Westbrook's game during the off-season. This OKC team would have been ideal in the early 2000's.
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I still think if the OKC figures it out they pose the biggest threat to the Warriors. They are the one team that has enough offensive and defensive firepower (and at the right positions) to really give the Warriors fits in a series. You saw what they could be in the game they played earlier this year. Westbrook is a match-up nightmare for Curry. George will make Durant work on both ends of the floor. Roberson is a great defender to handle Thompson. Anthony pulls Green out of the paint or can easily post up Iggy if they play smaller. Adams and Patterson are an interesting combo at center. Grant, Felton, Abrines, and Huestis are quality bench guards/wings. They clearly have some growing pains, but if they figure it out, the West should take notice.
Not sure how you come up with this stuff but OKC's bench looks absolutely pathetic. Reminds me of how you used to overrate all of Philly's scrubs who aren't even in the league anymore. Huestis averages 2 points and has a PER of 3. Abrines averages 4 points and has a PER of 6. They aren't NBA players.
I don't see the team making much noise. Besides having no bench they seem to play pretty lazy. I think George is the best piece on the whole team. Westbrook is a ballhog who tries to do way too much, Melo is a ballhog who does far too little except for shot attempts. I'm not impressed at all with the team.
Abrines and Huestis are 9th and 10th men. San Antonio for example has Bryn Forbes and Brandon Paul in those slots right now. Houston has 37 year old Nene and Tarik Black manning those spots. The Warriors have Omri Casspi and Kevon Looney (though 37 year old West has played less, so maybe he bumps them down a slot). Even Boston's 9th and 10th men are Semi and Theis (who have played well for rookies, but aren't exactly world beaters and are rookies). I'd take my chances with Abrines and Huestis as compared to any of those teams 9th and 10th men, especially Abrines who had a fairly decorated European career before coming to OKC prior to last season.
Over at bball-ref, OKC's projected W/L is 12-7. They have the 2nd best DRTG at 101.4 (giving up just 98.1 ppg). Their ORTG is 105.4 (21st) and they are scoring 102 (23rd). Their SRS is 2.96 or 6th out of 30. The metrics love OKC. They've had a lot of close losses and have blown out teams when they win. As they find a bit more consistency and comfort, they will start winning some of the close games they've been losing and their record will start to reflect that.
OKC is the most dangerous team in the NBA if they can figure it out and they have the talent to figure it out.
The OKC bench is bad. Of the 343 players who’ve seen at least 100 minutes of playing time this year, Huestis, Patterson, and Abrines are all in the bottom 20 for PER, at the 5th, 15th, and 19th-lowest numbers. I think PER is imperfect as a stat, as are all gestalt stats, but having three guys in your rotation in the 5th percentile and below is terrible. And the bench behind them is even worse — Singler is only in the NBA because the Thunder can’t figure out how to move his contract, Collison is simply a locker-room presence, and Dakari Johnson and Terrance Ferguson are non-contributing rookies.
And this isn’t surprising. When you make trades to acquire two players on max contracts, necessarily you’ll have to send a lot of depth just to match salaries, never mind matching talent. Ultimately their record will come close to matching their point differential, and they should be a playoff team. But if an injury strikes any of their top 7, they’ll be forced to rely on this trio even more, and likely have to slide someone even worse into the rotation as well. They’re definitely walking a bit of a tightrope. Ultimately, this will cost them in playoff seeding, and the home court advantage that comes with it, perhaps even in the first round.
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I am glad we did not trade for Paul George but I suspect that this team will be much better in Feb/Mar than they are now. How much better? Who knows, but better.
Westbrook does seem to go for triple doubles but I think he will figure it out. I sense Paul George is somewhat less than fully committed (thinking ahead to his next team) but he is a competitor and will rise to the occasion as the games get more important. As for Melo, I am not sure how much he has left or how accepting he will be of a lesser role. Like PG, he will be somewhat better as games get more important.
Tough team to coach too. Not sure they will listen. The players are going to have to figure it out.
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I still think if the OKC figures it out they pose the biggest threat to the Warriors. They are the one team that has enough offensive and defensive firepower (and at the right positions) to really give the Warriors fits in a series. You saw what they could be in the game they played earlier this year. Westbrook is a match-up nightmare for Curry. George will make Durant work on both ends of the floor. Roberson is a great defender to handle Thompson. Anthony pulls Green out of the paint or can easily post up Iggy if they play smaller. Adams and Patterson are an interesting combo at center. Grant, Felton, Abrines, and Huestis are quality bench guards/wings. They clearly have some growing pains, but if they figure it out, the West should take notice.
Not sure how you come up with this stuff but OKC's bench looks absolutely pathetic. Reminds me of how you used to overrate all of Philly's scrubs who aren't even in the league anymore. Huestis averages 2 points and has a PER of 3. Abrines averages 4 points and has a PER of 6. They aren't NBA players.
I don't see the team making much noise. Besides having no bench they seem to play pretty lazy. I think George is the best piece on the whole team. Westbrook is a ballhog who tries to do way too much, Melo is a ballhog who does far too little except for shot attempts. I'm not impressed at all with the team.
Abrines and Huestis are 9th and 10th men. San Antonio for example has Bryn Forbes and Brandon Paul in those slots right now. Houston has 37 year old Nene and Tarik Black manning those spots. The Warriors have Omri Casspi and Kevon Looney (though 37 year old West has played less, so maybe he bumps them down a slot). Even Boston's 9th and 10th men are Semi and Theis (who have played well for rookies, but aren't exactly world beaters and are rookies). I'd take my chances with Abrines and Huestis as compared to any of those teams 9th and 10th men, especially Abrines who had a fairly decorated European career before coming to OKC prior to last season.
Over at bball-ref, OKC's projected W/L is 12-7. They have the 2nd best DRTG at 101.4 (giving up just 98.1 ppg). Their ORTG is 105.4 (21st) and they are scoring 102 (23rd). Their SRS is 2.96 or 6th out of 30. The metrics love OKC. They've had a lot of close losses and have blown out teams when they win. As they find a bit more consistency and comfort, they will start winning some of the close games they've been losing and their record will start to reflect that.
OKC is the most dangerous team in the NBA if they can figure it out and they have the talent to figure it out.
The OKC bench is bad. Of the 343 players who’ve seen at least 100 minutes of playing time this year, Huestis, Patterson, and Abrines are all in the bottom 20 for PER, at the 5th, 15th, and 19th-lowest numbers. I think PER is imperfect as a stat, as are all gestalt stats, but having three guys in your rotation in the 5th percentile and below is terrible. And the bench behind them is even worse — Singler is only in the NBA because the Thunder can’t figure out how to move his contract, Collison is simply a locker-room presence, and Dakari Johnson and Terrance Ferguson are non-contributing rookies.
And this isn’t surprising. When you make trades to acquire two players on max contracts, necessarily you’ll have to send a lot of depth just to match salaries, never mind matching talent. Ultimately their record will come close to matching their point differential, and they should be a playoff team. But if an injury strikes any of their top 7, they’ll be forced to rely on this trio even more, and likely have to slide someone even worse into the rotation as well. They’re definitely walking a bit of a tightrope. Ultimately, this will cost them in playoff seeding, and the home court advantage that comes with it, perhaps even in the first round.
Deeper rotational players, I'm sure Semi, Brandon Paul, and plenty of other deeper rotational players on contenders are down near the bottom in that stat as well. I'm also sure, poor shooting negatively effects PER. Patterson is well below his normal shooting percentages. I'm sure he will recover a bit. Abrines is shooting a lot worse than last year so far as well. Maybe they have regressed as players, though that seems unlikely.
They are obviously thin though and a serious injury would derail them more than most teams. But if I'm the Warriors, I'm hoping the Thunder don't play me in the playoffs.
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Arguably it was an epic success because it got Russ to sign long term. He didn't give up that much for either player in the scheme of things.
Hottest and most correct take of the day. It literally doesn't matter how well this version goes over, because it got Russ to sign. Melo is off the books soon, and George could be gone this year. They served their purpose. They build around Russ going forward.
And where will that get them exactly? They are going to be paying Russ like $40M a season eventually. So let’s lose PG13 for nothing to the Lakers and let Melo walk, but they still have Russ locked up!
What happens next? You have a disgruntled star making so much money without the ability to add talent around them or the willingness to deal him to bring back $35M+ in (most likely) bad contracts.
These new supermaxes are going to crush teams eventually, and I believe that was the point of them, so you can’t have 3-4 max guys together anymore. Some may have 2, but 3 seems impossible even if the cap balloons. Parity may be around the corner.
I don’t even think the Warriors can keep their core very much longer. Will the C’s be able to extend Marcus? Then give Kyrie a new contract while doing the same for Brown/Tatum. All while finding a way to retain Horford?
So either we go back to the days of one- or two-star teams or the NBA eventually going to an even more lenient soft cap.
My post was misleading. I'm not saying it's good or bad that the saddled up to Westbrook, just that it was the main goal.
I agree it probably wasn't the best look.Westbrook will not be the same player he is now once he is getting 35 or 40 million a year. His athleticism has to wane at some point, and when it does, his game will drop a bit.
Hey AFOS, I am glass you fessed up. I think we know what you were trying to say but sounded like Westbrook is the ONLY thing that matters and it simply not the case. Any team with Westbrook should be building around him, which is what I thought they were doing. However, in that worst case scenario you mention they will have to do that without Melo, without PG, without Oladipo and without Sabonis. That just doesn't seem like progress.
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I still think if the OKC figures it out they pose the biggest threat to the Warriors. They are the one team that has enough offensive and defensive firepower (and at the right positions) to really give the Warriors fits in a series. You saw what they could be in the game they played earlier this year. Westbrook is a match-up nightmare for Curry. George will make Durant work on both ends of the floor. Roberson is a great defender to handle Thompson. Anthony pulls Green out of the paint or can easily post up Iggy if they play smaller. Adams and Patterson are an interesting combo at center. Grant, Felton, Abrines, and Huestis are quality bench guards/wings. They clearly have some growing pains, but if they figure it out, the West should take notice.
Not sure how you come up with this stuff but OKC's bench looks absolutely pathetic. Reminds me of how you used to overrate all of Philly's scrubs who aren't even in the league anymore. Huestis averages 2 points and has a PER of 3. Abrines averages 4 points and has a PER of 6. They aren't NBA players.
I don't see the team making much noise. Besides having no bench they seem to play pretty lazy. I think George is the best piece on the whole team. Westbrook is a ballhog who tries to do way too much, Melo is a ballhog who does far too little except for shot attempts. I'm not impressed at all with the team.
Abrines and Huestis are 9th and 10th men. San Antonio for example has Bryn Forbes and Brandon Paul in those slots right now. Houston has 37 year old Nene and Tarik Black manning those spots. The Warriors have Omri Casspi and Kevon Looney (though 37 year old West has played less, so maybe he bumps them down a slot). Even Boston's 9th and 10th men are Semi and Theis (who have played well for rookies, but aren't exactly world beaters and are rookies). I'd take my chances with Abrines and Huestis as compared to any of those teams 9th and 10th men, especially Abrines who had a fairly decorated European career before coming to OKC prior to last season.
Over at bball-ref, OKC's projected W/L is 12-7. They have the 2nd best DRTG at 101.4 (giving up just 98.1 ppg). Their ORTG is 105.4 (21st) and they are scoring 102 (23rd). Their SRS is 2.96 or 6th out of 30. The metrics love OKC. They've had a lot of close losses and have blown out teams when they win. As they find a bit more consistency and comfort, they will start winning some of the close games they've been losing and their record will start to reflect that.
OKC is the most dangerous team in the NBA if they can figure it out and they have the talent to figure it out.
The OKC bench is bad. Of the 343 players who’ve seen at least 100 minutes of playing time this year, Huestis, Patterson, and Abrines are all in the bottom 20 for PER, at the 5th, 15th, and 19th-lowest numbers. I think PER is imperfect as a stat, as are all gestalt stats, but having three guys in your rotation in the 5th percentile and below is terrible. And the bench behind them is even worse — Singler is only in the NBA because the Thunder can’t figure out how to move his contract, Collison is simply a locker-room presence, and Dakari Johnson and Terrance Ferguson are non-contributing rookies.
And this isn’t surprising. When you make trades to acquire two players on max contracts, necessarily you’ll have to send a lot of depth just to match salaries, never mind matching talent. Ultimately their record will come close to matching their point differential, and they should be a playoff team. But if an injury strikes any of their top 7, they’ll be forced to rely on this trio even more, and likely have to slide someone even worse into the rotation as well. They’re definitely walking a bit of a tightrope. Ultimately, this will cost them in playoff seeding, and the home court advantage that comes with it, perhaps even in the first round.
Well said. The Thunder do not have a good bench right now. They may be able to get a vet min guy or two at buyouts though.
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Paul George was a tenuous trade for us because it was likely only a one year rental. But I never imagined that we would get Kyrie at the time. There is simply no question that we are better off. Same for any potential Jimmy Butler trades.
Hit the nail on the head. Is our GM lucky or good, or both? Kyrie is just a force, and so far even better than I imagined.
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I still think if the OKC figures it out they pose the biggest threat to the Warriors. They are the one team that has enough offensive and defensive firepower (and at the right positions) to really give the Warriors fits in a series. You saw what they could be in the game they played earlier this year. Westbrook is a match-up nightmare for Curry. George will make Durant work on both ends of the floor. Roberson is a great defender to handle Thompson. Anthony pulls Green out of the paint or can easily post up Iggy if they play smaller. Adams and Patterson are an interesting combo at center. Grant, Felton, Abrines, and Huestis are quality bench guards/wings. They clearly have some growing pains, but if they figure it out, the West should take notice.
Not sure how you come up with this stuff but OKC's bench looks absolutely pathetic. Reminds me of how you used to overrate all of Philly's scrubs who aren't even in the league anymore. Huestis averages 2 points and has a PER of 3. Abrines averages 4 points and has a PER of 6. They aren't NBA players.
I don't see the team making much noise. Besides having no bench they seem to play pretty lazy. I think George is the best piece on the whole team. Westbrook is a ballhog who tries to do way too much, Melo is a ballhog who does far too little except for shot attempts. I'm not impressed at all with the team.
Abrines and Huestis are 9th and 10th men. San Antonio for example has Bryn Forbes and Brandon Paul in those slots right now. Houston has 37 year old Nene and Tarik Black manning those spots. The Warriors have Omri Casspi and Kevon Looney (though 37 year old West has played less, so maybe he bumps them down a slot). Even Boston's 9th and 10th men are Semi and Theis (who have played well for rookies, but aren't exactly world beaters and are rookies). I'd take my chances with Abrines and Huestis as compared to any of those teams 9th and 10th men, especially Abrines who had a fairly decorated European career before coming to OKC prior to last season.
Over at bball-ref, OKC's projected W/L is 12-7. They have the 2nd best DRTG at 101.4 (giving up just 98.1 ppg). Their ORTG is 105.4 (21st) and they are scoring 102 (23rd). Their SRS is 2.96 or 6th out of 30. The metrics love OKC. They've had a lot of close losses and have blown out teams when they win. As they find a bit more consistency and comfort, they will start winning some of the close games they've been losing and their record will start to reflect that.
OKC is the most dangerous team in the NBA if they can figure it out and they have the talent to figure it out.
The OKC bench is bad. Of the 343 players who’ve seen at least 100 minutes of playing time this year, Huestis, Patterson, and Abrines are all in the bottom 20 for PER, at the 5th, 15th, and 19th-lowest numbers. I think PER is imperfect as a stat, as are all gestalt stats, but having three guys in your rotation in the 5th percentile and below is terrible. And the bench behind them is even worse — Singler is only in the NBA because the Thunder can’t figure out how to move his contract, Collison is simply a locker-room presence, and Dakari Johnson and Terrance Ferguson are non-contributing rookies.
And this isn’t surprising. When you make trades to acquire two players on max contracts, necessarily you’ll have to send a lot of depth just to match salaries, never mind matching talent. Ultimately their record will come close to matching their point differential, and they should be a playoff team. But if an injury strikes any of their top 7, they’ll be forced to rely on this trio even more, and likely have to slide someone even worse into the rotation as well. They’re definitely walking a bit of a tightrope. Ultimately, this will cost them in playoff seeding, and the home court advantage that comes with it, perhaps even in the first round.
Deeper rotational players, I'm sure Semi, Brandon Paul, and plenty of other deeper rotational players on contenders are down near the bottom in that stat as well. I'm also sure, poor shooting negatively effects PER. Patterson is well below his normal shooting percentages. I'm sure he will recover a bit. Abrines is shooting a lot worse than last year so far as well. Maybe they have regressed as players, though that seems unlikely.
They are obviously thin though and a serious injury would derail them more than most teams. But if I'm the Warriors, I'm hoping the Thunder don't play me in the playoffs.
What you’re missing is that when you look at Semi and Theis (and Larkin) is that those guys were supposed to be 10-12th in the rotation when things were planned in the offseason. Same with Paul and Forbes in San Antonio. But those guys have gotten a lot of playing time due to injury. The Celtics have lost essentially 38 games (including the games where Hayward and Irving were injured early) from their top 9 in the rotation. The Spurs have missed 42, with Parker and Leonard yet to play. The Thunder have lost 4 games from their top 9. Things are going as planned and the Thunder are giving nearly 20% of their minutes to players who are fringe rotation quality at best, and there’s no one behind those guys.
I’m sure the Warriors would rather play the Spurs without Parker and Leonard than they would a full-strength Thunder team. But when/if those two come back (I think Parker returns tonight) you’ll see Paul and Forbes drop out of the rotation and be used situationally. If Hayward comes back, the same will happen to Semi/Theis/Larkin. This is who the Thunder are. And that bench is not prepared to handle adversity, and is definitely the Achilles heel of their team.
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I still think if the OKC figures it out they pose the biggest threat to the Warriors. They are the one team that has enough offensive and defensive firepower (and at the right positions) to really give the Warriors fits in a series. You saw what they could be in the game they played earlier this year. Westbrook is a match-up nightmare for Curry. George will make Durant work on both ends of the floor. Roberson is a great defender to handle Thompson. Anthony pulls Green out of the paint or can easily post up Iggy if they play smaller. Adams and Patterson are an interesting combo at center. Grant, Felton, Abrines, and Huestis are quality bench guards/wings. They clearly have some growing pains, but if they figure it out, the West should take notice.
Not sure how you come up with this stuff but OKC's bench looks absolutely pathetic. Reminds me of how you used to overrate all of Philly's scrubs who aren't even in the league anymore. Huestis averages 2 points and has a PER of 3. Abrines averages 4 points and has a PER of 6. They aren't NBA players.
I don't see the team making much noise. Besides having no bench they seem to play pretty lazy. I think George is the best piece on the whole team. Westbrook is a ballhog who tries to do way too much, Melo is a ballhog who does far too little except for shot attempts. I'm not impressed at all with the team.
Abrines and Huestis are 9th and 10th men. San Antonio for example has Bryn Forbes and Brandon Paul in those slots right now. Houston has 37 year old Nene and Tarik Black manning those spots. The Warriors have Omri Casspi and Kevon Looney (though 37 year old West has played less, so maybe he bumps them down a slot). Even Boston's 9th and 10th men are Semi and Theis (who have played well for rookies, but aren't exactly world beaters and are rookies). I'd take my chances with Abrines and Huestis as compared to any of those teams 9th and 10th men, especially Abrines who had a fairly decorated European career before coming to OKC prior to last season.
Over at bball-ref, OKC's projected W/L is 12-7. They have the 2nd best DRTG at 101.4 (giving up just 98.1 ppg). Their ORTG is 105.4 (21st) and they are scoring 102 (23rd). Their SRS is 2.96 or 6th out of 30. The metrics love OKC. They've had a lot of close losses and have blown out teams when they win. As they find a bit more consistency and comfort, they will start winning some of the close games they've been losing and their record will start to reflect that.
OKC is the most dangerous team in the NBA if they can figure it out and they have the talent to figure it out.
The OKC bench is bad. Of the 343 players who’ve seen at least 100 minutes of playing time this year, Huestis, Patterson, and Abrines are all in the bottom 20 for PER, at the 5th, 15th, and 19th-lowest numbers. I think PER is imperfect as a stat, as are all gestalt stats, but having three guys in your rotation in the 5th percentile and below is terrible. And the bench behind them is even worse — Singler is only in the NBA because the Thunder can’t figure out how to move his contract, Collison is simply a locker-room presence, and Dakari Johnson and Terrance Ferguson are non-contributing rookies.
And this isn’t surprising. When you make trades to acquire two players on max contracts, necessarily you’ll have to send a lot of depth just to match salaries, never mind matching talent. Ultimately their record will come close to matching their point differential, and they should be a playoff team. But if an injury strikes any of their top 7, they’ll be forced to rely on this trio even more, and likely have to slide someone even worse into the rotation as well. They’re definitely walking a bit of a tightrope. Ultimately, this will cost them in playoff seeding, and the home court advantage that comes with it, perhaps even in the first round.
Deeper rotational players, I'm sure Semi, Brandon Paul, and plenty of other deeper rotational players on contenders are down near the bottom in that stat as well. I'm also sure, poor shooting negatively effects PER. Patterson is well below his normal shooting percentages. I'm sure he will recover a bit. Abrines is shooting a lot worse than last year so far as well. Maybe they have regressed as players, though that seems unlikely.
They are obviously thin though and a serious injury would derail them more than most teams. But if I'm the Warriors, I'm hoping the Thunder don't play me in the playoffs.
What you’re missing is that when you look at Semi and Theis (and Larkin) is that those guys were supposed to be 10-12th in the rotation when things were planned in the offseason. Same with Paul and Forbes in San Antonio. But those guys have gotten a lot of playing time due to injury. The Celtics have lost essentially 38 games (including the games where Hayward and Irving were injured early) from their top 9 in the rotation. The Spurs have missed 42, with Parker and Leonard yet to play. The Thunder have lost 4 games from their top 9. Things are going as planned and the Thunder are giving nearly 20% of their minutes to players who are fringe rotation quality at best, and there’s no one behind those guys.
I’m sure the Warriors would rather play the Spurs without Parker and Leonard than they would a full-strength Thunder team. But when/if those two come back (I think Parker returns tonight) you’ll see Paul and Forbes drop out of the rotation and be used situationally. If Hayward comes back, the same will happen to Semi/Theis/Larkin. This is who the Thunder are. And that bench is not prepared to handle adversity, and is definitely the Achilles heel of their team.
The Thunder will get pretty ugly quick if they even approach normal injuries. Also makes you appreciate how much better and deeper we would be with hayward.
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3 straight wins for the Thunder over the Wolves, Spurs, and Jazz all teams above .500 and ahead of them in the standings. Now granted all 3 games were at home, but maybe that is what they needed to turn the corner. In the Spurs and Wolves games Anthony had less shots than Adams in both games. If he takes that type of role it would help them out a great deal (he had a lot of shots in the Jazz game though).
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3 straight wins for the Thunder over the Wolves, Spurs, and Jazz all teams above .500 and ahead of them in the standings. Now granted all 3 games were at home, but maybe that is what they needed to turn the corner. In the Spurs and Wolves games Anthony had less shots than Adams in both games. If he takes that type of role it would help them out a great deal (he had a lot of shots in the Jazz game though).
the correction was inevitable.
This Thunder team was way too talented to be 4 games under .500.
How good are they really? Im not sure. Preseason I think I had them 4th in the West. Might still have them there. I think Minny will fall off a little bit.
Problem is that the West has 3 god-tier teams (GSW, Hou, SAS). I really dont see OKC even coming close to that group and this might be their only shot at it. If they get smacked in the second round does George come back? I dont know.
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I think it's difficult for a coach to integrate another star into his system. To try to integrate two stars is probably too much. Plus they gave up a lot of depth to do it.
Anthony was one star too much. There aren't enough basketballs to go around. And these guys don't play the dirty work defense which is important to win games.
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I think it's difficult for a coach to integrate another star into his system. To try to integrate two stars is probably too much. Plus they gave up a lot of depth to do it.
Anthony was one star too much. There aren't enough basketballs to go around. And these guys don't play the dirty work defense which is important to win games.
I think as we are seeing 'super teams' starting to fail it really speaks highly of, and how selfless, KG, Ray and PP were. I get they were at a different time in their careers, but so were Kobe and Nash and that didn't work out.
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Thunder are an interesting team going forward. They were on fire before the Roberson injury and then lost 4 straight, but they just won at Golden State on Tuesday. George is saying all the things that make it seem like he is going to stay in Oklahoma City, though that could change.
No matter the future of George, I think one thing is clear, Boston would be a more complete and overall better team if it had Paul George right now (especially if the asking price was really just Crowder, Smart, and Boston's 1st this year).
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Thunder are an interesting team going forward. They were on fire before the Roberson injury and then lost 4 straight, but they just won at Golden State on Tuesday. George is saying all the things that make it seem like he is going to stay in Oklahoma City, though that could change.
No matter the future of George, I think one thing is clear, Boston would be a more complete and overall better team if it had Paul George right now (especially if the asking price was really just Crowder, Smart, and Boston's 1st this year).
If the Celtics did that, do they have the pieces to get Irving?
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Thunder are an interesting team going forward. They were on fire before the Roberson injury and then lost 4 straight, but they just won at Golden State on Tuesday. George is saying all the things that make it seem like he is going to stay in Oklahoma City, though that could change.
No matter the future of George, I think one thing is clear, Boston would be a more complete and overall better team if it had Paul George right now (especially if the asking price was really just Crowder, Smart, and Boston's 1st this year).
Except that a) that deal never made enough to have salaries match, and b) would have meant the Kyrie trade didn’t happen even if salaries did match, so it’s unclear that we would have in fact been a better and more complete team. Sure, in a vacuum if you could add George and not take anyone away but Smart we’d be better, but that’s not what would have functionally happened.
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Thunder are an interesting team going forward. They were on fire before the Roberson injury and then lost 4 straight, but they just won at Golden State on Tuesday. George is saying all the things that make it seem like he is going to stay in Oklahoma City, though that could change.
No matter the future of George, I think one thing is clear, Boston would be a more complete and overall better team if it had Paul George right now (especially if the asking price was really just Crowder, Smart, and Boston's 1st this year).
Except that a) that deal never made enough to have salaries match, and b) would have meant the Kyrie trade didn’t happen even if salaries did match, so it’s unclear that we would have in fact been a better and more complete team. Sure, in a vacuum if you could add George and not take anyone away but Smart we’d be better, but that’s not what would have functionally happened.
Presumably, Bradley would have gone out to another team and something else would have come back to Boston (someone with a lesser salary than Morris), though that does make the Irving trade more difficult since Crowder and his salary wouldn't be on the team, but Yabu and Brown (for example) works instead of Crowder and by including Brown perhaps the BKN pick isn't traded (or has some protections on it). So Irving, Hayward, George, Tatum, Horford as a starting five with Rozier, Baynes, and some young guys or vets on the bench.
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Thunder are an interesting team going forward. They were on fire before the Roberson injury and then lost 4 straight, but they just won at Golden State on Tuesday. George is saying all the things that make it seem like he is going to stay in Oklahoma City, though that could change.
No matter the future of George, I think one thing is clear, Boston would be a more complete and overall better team if it had Paul George right now (especially if the asking price was really just Crowder, Smart, and Boston's 1st this year).
Except that a) that deal never made enough to have salaries match, and b) would have meant the Kyrie trade didn’t happen even if salaries did match, so it’s unclear that we would have in fact been a better and more complete team. Sure, in a vacuum if you could add George and not take anyone away but Smart we’d be better, but that’s not what would have functionally happened.
Presumably, Bradley would have gone out to another team and something else would have come back to Boston (someone with a lesser salary than Morris), though that does make the Irving trade more difficult since Crowder and his salary wouldn't be on the team, but Yabu and Brown (for example) works instead of Crowder and by including Brown perhaps the BKN pick isn't traded (or has some protections on it). So Irving, Hayward, George, Tatum, Horford as a starting five with Rozier, Baynes, and some young guys or vets on the bench.
I don’t want to relive the multiple threads on this we had last June and July. But in order to have acquired George and Hayward, you would need to have sent out George’s salary in guaranteed money for this season, not including Bradley since we already needed to reduce his salary to fit Hayward. That’s $8.5 million you needed to send out, or Bradley plus about $3.5 million if you want to pretend that we never traded Bradley for Morris (plus a little bit extra for roster holds, and each time you add a player to the hypothetical George deal subtract $800k). That’s why the deal couldn’t happen, and certainly there was no way we also get Irving in this universe.
We need to let the George deal die, because we don’t know what it was — we only know the reports create an alternative reality in which we certainly don’t have Hayward and we probably don’t have Irving without giving up Jaylen Brown.
But that is, for real, the last time I’m talking about this.