Rozier On Get Up! & First Take Today

[mmmmm]

No accountability. He thinks he can coast on a couple of months of good play from last year.

I think it was more he wanted the opportunity to expand on a couple months of good postseason play from last year, to prove that he can be that player as a starting point guard and show runner on a team.  And he is troubled by never getting that opportunity.

As a point guard myself, I can say its difficult to play alongside other point guards.  You try your best, but it can be frustrating when neither of you feel like you can really maximize your own utility in order to help your team win.  Usually it works out best for one to defer to the other and the deferring one tries to do his best playing in a role that doesn't utilize his strengths.  And it sounds like Terry was the one being asked to defer and change his game.

I don't want to excuse Terry necessarily for his poor play and certainly can't say that his play this season ever earned him any more time.  But I can totally get what he's feeling inside.  It was a ****ty situation.

And I've got a ton of respect for players that can adapt and change their games to fit alongside similar players.  CP3 has particularly impressed me in that regard.  But I definitely can understand how its hard to do that.

Yeah, that's pretty much my take too.

I wish he wasn't voicing this publicly -- because even though it doesn't really sound bad when you watch the live interview, the out-of-context snippets inevitably look bad.

But I can totally understand why he is frustrated.   He got drafted as a PG and was immediately deep in the depth chart behind Thomas and Smart.   And because Smart was such a horrible shooter the pattern was quickly established that whenever Rozier shared the floor with _either_ Thomas or Smart, then Rozier would be the off-ball guard most of the time.  To be a small wing.   Something he simply isn't really very good at.

And then Thomas gets traded for Kyrie and the same pattern continues.    Late last year, Kyrie goes down and finally, Rozier gets an extended stretch where he is allowed to play his actual position as a primary ball handler and gets a taste of success for some 35 games (including playoffs).

And then it gets snatched away and he's pushed back into that small wing role.   During his contract year.

You can say all you want about how you as a fan think he should have 'just sucked it up' or 'adapted to his role' or whatever sports platitude.   That doesn't change how this had to have been building up frustration for him for some time.  You can criticize him for worrying about his own numbers and minutes and his contract, but I would say he'd be a fool to not worry about it.  His being used in a reduced and miscast role may have cost him millions.   I think every player probably does and definitely should worry about those things.

Ah whatever.  I'm done with the Rozier threads unless we end up retaining him.  I'm totally disappointed that he is talking publicly about this.   I just can't get that worked up over it to hate on him like others seem to.   If he leaves, no big deal and I hope he has success for his sake.   If Danny matches then I hope he has success here for his and the team's sake.

I'm much more concerned about bigger issues with this team.   Basically whether Kyrie decides to stay or not is by far a much bigger concern because that will have huge ripple effects.

[mmmmm]

The Celtics failure was a team wide failure with blame to go around to everyone. Kyrie, in no way, shape or form was this team's only reason for underperforming.

While this statement is true in an absolute technical sense, I'm not sure I accept it qualitatively.   It is the sort of statement that whitewashes the tremendous disparity in responsibility that different characters had in this drama.

A guy like Yabu or Wanamaker simply can't be compared to folks like Kyrie, Al, Stevens, etc., when it comes to the impact that they had on this season.

Kyrie shot the most shots, controlled the ball the most, was second most in minutes, made the most public comments -- whatever measure you want to use, he was overall one of if not THE most influential player on the team.   If the season had gone well, he would deserve the majority of the praise.   And because the season didn't, he has to take the majority of the blame.  That's just the way it is.

I agree, though, that he has some company.    Certainly Ainge and Brad have to be at least as influential on the season as any of the players.

I think Brad really handled this season poorly in many ways.  But at least he has publicly owned that he doesn't think he did a good job.  He called himself out as having made mistakes and needing to learn and improve from it.  So people seem to be willing to back off from flailing him.

If Kyrie had the means of speaking in public in a way as to own his responsibility without hedging, waxing mysterious or throwing others under the bus, I suspect that would go a long ways to improve fan impression of him.   But I haven't seen much sign of that from him yet.

To bring it back to the thread: I don't really see the point of getting too bent about Rozier.  He was the third string small guard who was far too often asked to play as a small wing - a role he has sucked at for two years straight now.   While he sounds like a tool to be complaining publicly, I don't really blame him for being frustrated.  His career is at stake and he's been shoved into a wrong-shaped role.   

In the end, he's most likely going to get picked up by another team so to me that's even less reason to get all worked up about him.

I'm far more concerned about the problems being surfaced by what he has said.   That comment about them practicing one way and then abandoning that when they'd get on the game floor was very disturbing.    Was Stevens that out of control of this team?

So If Kyrie is tops to blame for this season, does he get all the credit for last seasons incredible run with him on the court?

I mean he led the team to the highest win percentage the team has seen since the 2010 season.

Sure.  He certainly deserves massive credit for helping us get to our 39-21 record in the 60 games that he played that year.

It was actually 46-21 when Kyrie was shut down. His last game was vs Indiana, game 67 of the season (his 60th). Unless you mean just the 60 games he played in, which was 41-19.

You are correct - I meant the 41-19.  I miss-counted as I scanned down the game log.

[Big333223]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1128320933163352064

"Time of possession per game
Terry Rozier: 3.7 minutes
Gordon Hayward 2 minutes

Touches per game
Rozier: 51.9
Hayward: 45.5"

This narrative that Hayward had the ball in his hands more than Rozier is just false. I'd really like to see the passes per game stats between the two as well

4 years in the league and he's never shot 40% from the field. Never had an eFG% of .500. He still can't run an NBA offense as a point guard, as far as I've seen.

What “sacrifice” did Rozier make?  That implies that Terry gave up something for the good of the team.

Exactly. He didn't earn a starting spot last year that he then gave up to help someone else. The games he started last year he got because a vastly superior player was injured and in those games he played adequate starter basketball.

The more I remember Rozier playing like he did and acting like he is, the more I appreciate Jaylen Brown. Brown struggled with his role, but he adapted and drowned out all the negativity and drama and turned into the best player version of himself in the process.

This. So much.

[liam]

Rozier is acting as bad after the season as he was all year. I will be shocked if someone offers him a big contract...

[gouki88]

Rozier is perhaps my least favourite Celtic of all time.

His play over the majority of his career has been bad enough, but this just tops it all.

Good riddance.

[rondofan1255]

time for them to renounce him and let him move on imo

[PhoSita]

You can say all you want about how you as a fan think he should have 'just sucked it up' or 'adapted to his role' or whatever sports platitude.   That doesn't change how this had to have been building up frustration for him for some time.  You can criticize him for worrying about his own numbers and minutes and his contract, but I would say he'd be a fool to not worry about it.  His being used in a reduced and miscast role may have cost him millions.   I think every player probably does and definitely should worry about those things.

Ah whatever.  I'm done with the Rozier threads unless we end up retaining him.  I'm totally disappointed that he is talking publicly about this.   I just can't get that worked up over it to hate on him like others seem to.   If he leaves, no big deal and I hope he has success for his sake.   If Danny matches then I hope he has success here for his and the team's sake.

I'm much more concerned about bigger issues with this team.   Basically whether Kyrie decides to stay or not is by far a much bigger concern because that will have huge ripple effects.

You make some valid points, as usual. 

With that said, part of being an NBA player, at least one who isn't yet at the superstar level, is being able to accept and thrive in the role you're given even when it's not really ideal for your skillset and you aren't particularly happy about it.


The vast majority of NBA players probably feel they are capable of playing a larger role.  Almost all of them had much larger roles in college / overseas.  Pretty much every player in the NBA was a superstar at some point before reaching this level.


Point being that lots of guys every season have reason to feel misgivings about how they're being used.  Lots of those guys are on expiring deals and want a chance to increase the value of their next contract.


A lot of guys in a similar situation ... who don't cause locker room problems and say inflammatory stuff in the media even after the season is over.


Rozier has demonstrated over the last couple of years that he can't be expected to accept his role and not cause problems if the role he's given is less than what he wants.  That is going to hurt his market this summer at least as much as the fact that his role on the Celts this year wasn't what he wanted.

[Tr1boy]

This makes it so much easier for me to move from Terry.

He's so full of himself.

Those are the optics, but he has a big contract on the line and he said what he needs to;
I want more, I can do more, I sacrificed, I showed what I can do when given a the chance.
If I were his agent I'd say he did good in that regard.

Will any GMs actually buy any of that though?

Why not

Last season "hiccup" gives a free pass to all

Even Kyme

You think Kyrie wont attract suiters or gain a max deal?

You act like Kyrie and Rozier are equals, that somehow Rozier and Kyrie both had "hiccup" years and both would be given a break/benefit of the doubt from GMs.

Kyrie was an All-Star this year, will most likely be an All-NBA player this year, had his best statistical year and is a major difference maker. Rozier played slightly below his career averages which aren't very good, is at best a low level starter but more likely a 7th or 8th player in the rotation role player and is pretty far from being a difference making player.

You are talking about two completely different levels of NBA players. Teams will be clamoring to throw a max contract at Kyrie. Rozier will get some interest very late in the summer, like most mid to low level RFAs.

Did he look like a difference maker to you in this playoffs?

revisit what Gasper asked him after game 4....and listen to his response. Then look at what happened in game 5

At least Rozier can say, he was a part of a group that beat the 76ers and Bucks in the playoffs...and reached game 7 of ECF. Gave an honest effort until the end

[Triplenickle]

Danny was actually my least favorite Celtic.  He was like only a half-step above Laimbeer in my eyes, and even today I don't like Laimbeer. The things he still says while on camera tells me he's just as immature as an old man.

You know who I would hate to see Rozier go to?  Philly.  Whether they know it or not, he is just what they need right now, and I doubt we would beat them much with him on team.  But maybe that's karma as it'll be obvious that what he does, really can hurt a team at the right moment.

Supposed we woulda drafted Fultz, too

We woulda chewed him up and shat him back out, wouldn't we?

[gouki88]

Danny was actually my least favorite Celtic.  He was like only a half-step above Laimbeer in my eyes, and even today I don't like Laimbeer. The things he still says while on camera tells me he's just as immature as an old man.

You know who I would hate to see Rozier go to?  Philly.  Whether they know it or not, he is just what they need right now, and I doubt we would beat them much with him on team.  But maybe that's karma as it'll be obvious that what he does, really can hurt a team at the right moment.

Supposed we woulda drafted Fultz, too

We woulda chewed him up and shat him back out, wouldn't we?

Rofl. Yeah, the idea of a guard who has never shot over 40% and who can't create shots without the ball playing off-ball next to Simmons is sooooo terrifying.

Your takes this thread have been hilarious. Cheers for the laugh

[Tr1boy]

Danny was actually my least favorite Celtic.  He was like only a half-step above Laimbeer in my eyes, and even today I don't like Laimbeer. The things he still says while on camera tells me he's just as immature as an old man.

You know who I would hate to see Rozier go to?  Philly.  Whether they know it or not, he is just what they need right now, and I doubt we would beat them much with him on team.  But maybe that's karma as it'll be obvious that what he does, really can hurt a team at the right moment.

Supposed we woulda drafted Fultz, too

We woulda chewed him up and shat him back out, wouldn't we?

I hope Terry doesn't join the 76ers, but there is a chance that this happens (if they have the space)

[RJ87]

This makes it so much easier for me to move from Terry.

He's so full of himself.

Those are the optics, but he has a big contract on the line and he said what he needs to;
I want more, I can do more, I sacrificed, I showed what I can do when given a the chance.
If I were his agent I'd say he did good in that regard.

Will any GMs actually buy any of that though?

Why not

Last season "hiccup" gives a free pass to all

Even Kyme

You think Kyrie wont attract suiters or gain a max deal?

You act like Kyrie and Rozier are equals, that somehow Rozier and Kyrie both had "hiccup" years and both would be given a break/benefit of the doubt from GMs.

Kyrie was an All-Star this year, will most likely be an All-NBA player this year, had his best statistical year and is a major difference maker. Rozier played slightly below his career averages which aren't very good, is at best a low level starter but more likely a 7th or 8th player in the rotation role player and is pretty far from being a difference making player.

You are talking about two completely different levels of NBA players. Teams will be clamoring to throw a max contract at Kyrie. Rozier will get some interest very late in the summer, like most mid to low level RFAs.

Did he look like a difference maker to you in this playoffs?

revisit what Gasper asked him after game 4....and listen to his response. Then look at what happened in game 5

At least Rozier can say, he was a part of a group that beat the 76ers and Bucks in the playoffs...and reached game 7 of ECF. Gave an honest effort until the end

And his absolute best was on par with Kyrie's worst. That's something to be proud of, I guess.

I came across this on Twitter and it pretty much sums up the 2019 Terry Rozier Press Tour for me:

TheAlwaysLovedMarcusMorrisGuy
‏@SamSheehan

Terry consistently played the worst of any rotation player all year, was given minutes in spite of that, briefly course corrected into having an average inoffensive playoffs, then unloaded the clip in a TV interview.

That's the Terry experience.

[Tr1boy]

It will interesting to hear what Danny has to say re: what Terry said today

I'm sure it will be asked by Toucher and Rich etc.

Just in general, soo curious as to what he has to say and what the plans are moving forward

[RJ87]

Danny was actually my least favorite Celtic.  He was like only a half-step above Laimbeer in my eyes, and even today I don't like Laimbeer. The things he still says while on camera tells me he's just as immature as an old man.

You know who I would hate to see Rozier go to?  Philly.  Whether they know it or not, he is just what they need right now, and I doubt we would beat them much with him on team.  But maybe that's karma as it'll be obvious that what he does, really can hurt a team at the right moment.

Supposed we woulda drafted Fultz, too

We woulda chewed him up and shat him back out, wouldn't we?

Rofl. Yeah, the idea of a guard who has never shot over 40% and who can't create shots without the ball playing off-ball next to Simmons is sooooo terrifying.

Your takes this thread have been hilarious. Cheers for the laugh

I'd love to see that. If there's one thing that happens this offseason, please let it be that. Over/under on how long it takes Jimmy Butler to punch him in the face?

[Tr1boy]

This makes it so much easier for me to move from Terry.

He's so full of himself.

Those are the optics, but he has a big contract on the line and he said what he needs to;
I want more, I can do more, I sacrificed, I showed what I can do when given a the chance.
If I were his agent I'd say he did good in that regard.

Will any GMs actually buy any of that though?

Why not

Last season "hiccup" gives a free pass to all

Even Kyme

You think Kyrie wont attract suiters or gain a max deal?

You act like Kyrie and Rozier are equals, that somehow Rozier and Kyrie both had "hiccup" years and both would be given a break/benefit of the doubt from GMs.

Kyrie was an All-Star this year, will most likely be an All-NBA player this year, had his best statistical year and is a major difference maker. Rozier played slightly below his career averages which aren't very good, is at best a low level starter but more likely a 7th or 8th player in the rotation role player and is pretty far from being a difference making player.

You are talking about two completely different levels of NBA players. Teams will be clamoring to throw a max contract at Kyrie. Rozier will get some interest very late in the summer, like most mid to low level RFAs.

Did he look like a difference maker to you in this playoffs?

revisit what Gasper asked him after game 4....and listen to his response. Then look at what happened in game 5

At least Rozier can say, he was a part of a group that beat the 76ers and Bucks in the playoffs...and reached game 7 of ECF. Gave an honest effort until the end

And his absolute best was on par with Kyrie's worst. That's something to be proud of, I guess.

I came across this on Twitter and it pretty much sums up the 2019 Terry Rozier Press Tour for me:

TheAlwaysLovedMarcusMorrisGuy
‏@SamSheehan

Terry consistently played the worst of any rotation player all year, was given minutes in spite of that, briefly course corrected into having an average inoffensive playoffs, then unloaded the clip in a TV interview.

That's the Terry experience.

dude I don't get your hate on Terry

did you not listen to what he stated? he had to adjust...from being a PG (since drafted).... even when backing up IT4, he still got to PG

vs

Basically turning into a 3 and D, off the bench.   He is not that kind of player.