CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rondohondo on January 07, 2013, 10:34:51 PM
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varejao
Thoughts?
-
no.
-
Probably better than Doc saying we're looking to trade him.
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varajaeo
Thoughts?
for Gortat or Varejao No way. For Cousins yes.
-
where has this idea come from that Gortat is some sort of star?
Sullinger is only going to get better and better...now im not saying we can NEVER trade him. but trading a guy with sullys potential(even if its to be a trade chip for a star in the future) for a role-player like Gortat??
im sure we all regret how the C's traded Joe johnson/Chauncey billups for what at the time were "help for now"
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varajaeo
Thoughts?
for Gortat or Varejao No way. For Cousins yes.
I'd move Sully for Varejao in a heart beat. He'd make us immediate top-tier contenders. A mobile, excellent defender who can play both front court positions and who is an elite rebounder? That's exactly what this team needs.
Gortat isn't as good as Varejao, but I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal, too. Sully's play lately has made me hesitate on that more than I would have a couple of weeks ago, though.
-
Sullys game of the year so far. He made his presence felt.
Honestly though everyone played well which is what we needed missing one of our stars tonight
-
Sully should be pretty much untradeable...you have to start thinking about the future at this point. Rondo/Bradley/Sullinger could be our core for years to come.
Look at how good he is already. Its his FIRST season and he's not even in great shape. Sully is going to be something special in this league.
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varajaeo
Thoughts?
for Gortat or Varejao No way. For Cousins yes.
I'd move Sully for Varejao in a heart beat. He'd make us immediate top-tier contenders. A mobile, excellent defender who can play both front court positions and who is an elite rebounder? That's exactly what this team needs.
Gortat isn't as good as Varejao, but I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal, too. Sully's play lately has made me hesitate on that more than I would have a couple of weeks ago, though.
Agreed. Sully is improving past, but there is a ceiling for undersized play under the rim big man. He is a warrior, but Gortat/Varejao/Cousins are better players than Sully ever can be.
-
where has this idea come from that Gortat is some sort of star?
Sullinger is only going to get better and better...now im not saying we can NEVER trade him. but trading a guy with sullys potential(even if its to be a trade chip for a star in the future) for a role-player like Gortat??
im sure we all regret how the C's traded Joe johnson/Chauncey billups for what at the time were "help for now"
JJ yes, Chauncey never.
I like Sully but would want to keep him if we're getting Gortat or Varejao.
-
Doc meant that you can't move Sully. Like, literally. Not even with a crane.
-
Doc meant that you can't move Sully. Like, literally. Not even with a crane.
its really amazing out there to see him guarding/grabbing rebounds from guys like Chandler/amare.
he just gets to his spot and goes for the rebound.
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varajaeo
Thoughts?
for Gortat or Varejao No way. For Cousins yes.
I'd move Sully for Varejao in a heart beat. He'd make us immediate top-tier contenders. A mobile, excellent defender who can play both front court positions and who is an elite rebounder? That's exactly what this team needs.
Gortat isn't as good as Varejao, but I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal, too. Sully's play lately has made me hesitate on that more than I would have a couple of weeks ago, though.
agreed. look we all like sully and would love to keep him but he can be replaced by another big who hopefully can block and score better than sully. AB is the guy we cannot afford to lose. no, AB does not make us contenders, we still need another big who can score and rebound and play d and block shots however it does not mean AB does not help the backcourt and penetration because he does. he helps immensely.
anyhow, great win by the C's. did not attack enough for me but enough outside shots fell and i will take it. Bradley is like a dang pitbull on D. ferocious animal.
keep him for the back court and get a real good big and we are in business boys. now we need to win 5 straight at home making our win streak 8 straight. one game at a time. we have beaten 3 straight playoff teams. and without rondo tonight. The blur looked good.
-
Probably better than Doc saying we're looking to trade him.
That got a hearty lol.
-
for Cousins ..... No brainer ...Cousins is really special, lottery level Big .
For Varejao ........Yes , agree with Roy ... if we keep Bradley ...and do this deal...we would be super tuff out team on anybodies court. I LOVE SULLY ...dang ..but team first.
Gortat.... grit my teeth :-X .....probally would be a upgrade for THIS year...for a run...but ..Not sure I would do this ....
No deal should INCLUDE Bradley.....I would as soon trade Rondo.and draft another point guard. than let AB go.
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varajaeo
Thoughts?
for Gortat or Varejao No way. For Cousins yes.
I'd move Sully for Varejao in a heart beat. He'd make us immediate top-tier contenders. A mobile, excellent defender who can play both front court positions and who is an elite rebounder? That's exactly what this team needs.
Gortat isn't as good as Varejao, but I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal, too. Sully's play lately has made me hesitate on that more than I would have a couple of weeks ago, though.
I don't know. Sideshow BoB is too injury prone. He missed a lot of games in last 3 years. And too facilitate a trade it would take Sully, another rotation player, Melo, and possibly picks.
No, Thank you.
-
if the C's keep up this high level of play and start to go on a streak, I doubt you see ainge make a big trade.
maybe something minor to get a big that is better than collins....but right now we just beat 3 teams with quality centers(hibbert, horford, chandler)
-
if the C's keep up this high level of play and start to go on a streak, I doubt you see ainge make a big trade.
maybe something minor to get a big that is better than collins....but right now we just beat 3 teams with quality centers(hibbert, horford, chandler)
we still need a big who can score, play D and block shots when KG is out. AB cannot do everything. for us to be a real contender we need a trade. nothing has changed as far as that goes. bradley gets hurt and we are back to square one without another big like i described. we need one regardless.
-
or maybe Doc' s saying Sully is headed to Golden State ;)
-
I think Sully has more upside than many people think. Regarding rebounding, you don't have to be taller than Sullinger to be a good rebounder. This year four of the top six rpg guys are Sully's height, Varegao, Zach Randolph, David Lee, and JJ Hickson.
If Sully can become a 11-12 rpg player, and develops his offensive game, he could be an all star level player. He has a good shooting tough that extends to the three point line, and has the knack of getting his shot off in the paint against bigger players. He also has a very good feel for the game, even as a rookie.
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varajaeo
Thoughts?
for Gortat or Varejao No way. For Cousins yes.
I'd move Sully for Varejao in a heart beat. He'd make us immediate top-tier contenders. A mobile, excellent defender who can play both front court positions and who is an elite rebounder? That's exactly what this team needs.
Gortat isn't as good as Varejao, but I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal, too. Sully's play lately has made me hesitate on that more than I would have a couple of weeks ago, though.
I don't know. Sideshow BoB is too injury prone. He missed a lot of games in last 3 years. And too facilitate a trade it would take Sully, another rotation player, Melo, and possibly picks.
No, Thank you.
TP for similar thoughts. If Bob were more durable it is a no brainer, but at 30 something with his chronic history of being injured, I'd definitely be hesitant.
-
or maybe Doc' s saying Sully is headed to Golden State ;)
Another hearty lol.
Doc doesn't make personell decisions, and the odds of Sully being moved are pretty low. But people are talking about it, and Sully is young. Statements like this one are words that might help that possible festering wound.
-
I think Sully has more upside than many people think. Regarding rebounding, you don't have to be taller than Sullinger to be a good rebounder. This year four of the top six rpg guys are Sully's height, Varegao, Zach Randolph, David Lee, and JJ Hickson.
If Sully can become a 11-12 rpg player, and develops his offensive game, he could be an all star level player. He has a good shooting tough that extends to the three point line, and has the knack of getting his shot off in the paint against bigger players. He also has a very good feel for the game, even as a rookie.
I think All Star might be a bit much. I just want him to be a solid role player at a cost controlled reasonable price for five years. You can't have five max players. You need two, three at the most, to build your team and then get solid role players to fill out the other spots.
-
Let's see:
1. Tough as nails in the paint - check
2. Likes to throw his weight around - check
3. Has a mean streak - check
4. Takes well to coaching - check
5. High character kid - check
6. Very high basketball IQ - check
7. Much better on D than given credit for - check
8. Knows how to score on the block - check
9. Also has a very good jump shot - check
10. Works hard - check
11. Doesn't complain - check
12. Willing to do the dirty work - check
13. On the books, cheap, for 4 years - check
14. Should be a 20 yr old junior in college - check
Gortat: currently averaging 11 points and 8 rebounds, 28 years old and a 6 year veteran who is 8 years older than Sully.
I don't think I'm trading Sully for Gortat - you just can't find kids like this guy, with all the above qualities - they aren't out there. he's a very unusual kid.
Cousins is a great talent - but boy does he have issues.
Sully, Bradley and Melo - good young kids with character - that's what you build around.
I'm in no rush to trade any of these guys. If Melo keeps progressing the way he has this far, how do you think Melo's speed and length in the lane will combine with Sully's brahma bull act in 1-2 years? Very nicely, thank you very much.
Let the kids develop, they'll be more valuable in time anyway if you eventually want to trade them.
I still favor a smaller move to get a Dalembert level player - something along those lines.
I think Sully is easily a 15/10 guy next year, perhaps a 20/10 guy within 2-3 years.
What else does he bring with that ability - the enforcer mentality.
-
Can we now assume that when he wants #7 in the game, Doc says, "Sullinger....COME OUT AND PLAYYYY"
-
Sully should be pretty much untradeable...you have to start thinking about the future at this point. Rondo/Bradley/Sullinger could be our core for years to come.
Look at how good he is already. Its his FIRST season and he's not even in great shape. Sully is going to be something special in this league.
Thats a core of a 5-7th seed in the playoffs. ::)
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varajaeo
Thoughts?
for Gortat or Varejao No way. For Cousins yes.
I'd move Sully for Varejao in a heart beat. He'd make us immediate top-tier contenders. A mobile, excellent defender who can play both front court positions and who is an elite rebounder? That's exactly what this team needs.
Gortat isn't as good as Varejao, but I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal, too. Sully's play lately has made me hesitate on that more than I would have a couple of weeks ago, though.
Agreed. Sully is improving past, but there is a ceiling for undersized play under the rim big man. He is a warrior, but Gortat/Varejao/Cousins are better players than Sully ever can be.
TP for using my always go to "there is a ceiling for undersized play under the rim big man" arguement. Couldnt agree with you more.
Love Sully he is playing great. If we can trade Bass in a deal for a Varejo or Gortat you have to look into moving him first. But if Sully is the deal breaker then I have to move him.
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varajaeo
Thoughts?
for Gortat or Varejao No way. For Cousins yes.
I'd move Sully for Varejao in a heart beat. He'd make us immediate top-tier contenders. A mobile, excellent defender who can play both front court positions and who is an elite rebounder? That's exactly what this team needs.
Gortat isn't as good as Varejao, but I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal, too. Sully's play lately has made me hesitate on that more than I would have a couple of weeks ago, though.
Agreed. Sully is improving past, but there is a ceiling for undersized play under the rim big man. He is a warrior, but Gortat/Varejao/Cousins are better players than Sully ever can be.
TP for using my always go to "there is a ceiling for undersized play under the rim big man" arguement. Couldnt agree with you more.
Love Sully he is playing great. If we can trade Bass in a deal for a Varejo or Gortat you have to look into moving him first. But if Sully is the deal breaker then I have to move him.
Only move Sully for Cousins. Once Gortat or Sideshow Bob are done, we have to find more pieces. Cousins is 22 and if he gets his act together a perennial all star.
-
Honestly, it wasn't his best stat line, but you could tell, he broke through tonight. That smile he had after chandler fouled him said it all.
-
I think Sully has more upside than many people think. Regarding rebounding, you don't have to be taller than Sullinger to be a good rebounder. This year four of the top six rpg guys are Sully's height, Varegao, Zach Randolph, David Lee, and JJ Hickson.
If Sully can become a 11-12 rpg player, and develops his offensive game, he could be an all star level player. He has a good shooting tough that extends to the three point line, and has the knack of getting his shot off in the paint against bigger players. He also has a very good feel for the game, even as a rookie.
I know he is listed at 6 9 but i just dont buy it. Even if he is. All these other guys have an above the rim game and a much higher vertical than Sully. But in any case, I will agree that for rebounding purposes you dont necessarily need to be taller.
-
I think Sully has more upside than many people think. Regarding rebounding, you don't have to be taller than Sullinger to be a good rebounder. This year four of the top six rpg guys are Sully's height, Varegao, Zach Randolph, David Lee, and JJ Hickson.
If Sully can become a 11-12 rpg player, and develops his offensive game, he could be an all star level player. He has a good shooting tough that extends to the three point line, and has the knack of getting his shot off in the paint against bigger players. He also has a very good feel for the game, even as a rookie.
I know he is listed at 6 9 but i just dont buy it. Even if he is. All these other guys have an above the rim game and a much higher vertical than Sully. But in any case, I will agree that for rebounding purposes you dont necessarily need to be taller.
None of the guys listed except for maybe Hickson should be considered "athletic" .
Heart > Positioning/Rebounding Skill > Vertical.
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varajaeo
Thoughts?
for Gortat or Varejao No way. For Cousins yes.
I'd move Sully for Varejao in a heart beat. He'd make us immediate top-tier contenders. A mobile, excellent defender who can play both front court positions and who is an elite rebounder? That's exactly what this team needs.
Gortat isn't as good as Varejao, but I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal, too. Sully's play lately has made me hesitate on that more than I would have a couple of weeks ago, though.
Agreed. Sully is improving past, but there is a ceiling for undersized play under the rim big man. He is a warrior, but Gortat/Varejao/Cousins are better players than Sully ever can be.
TP for using my always go to "there is a ceiling for undersized play under the rim big man" arguement. Couldnt agree with you more.
Love Sully he is playing great. If we can trade Bass in a deal for a Varejo or Gortat you have to look into moving him first. But if Sully is the deal breaker then I have to move him.
I must have missed all of McHale's high flying dunks.
6' 9" isn't very undersized and he can be plenty effective.
-
Sully was projected as a top five talent for most of his college career. The injury possibility is what made him drop to us.
I'm telling you he's got a shot to be Kevin love 2.0. Keep working on the jumper and slimming down and he can be that good. Look at love in college and his rookie year. Sully is incredibly similar.
-
That kid is definitely starting to grow on me. He battles.
-
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jared-Sullinger-5029/
for those doubting sullys height, he is 6'9" (with shoes obviously).... 6'7.75" without shoes. at the combine he weighed 268lbs
scouts believe career-wise:
Best Case: Luis Scola
Worst Case: Glen Davis
-
That kid is definitely starting to grow on me. He battles.
the best part is he is only a kid. he is 20 years old, cannot legally drink, and is battling people who have been there and done that.
-
His defense is coming along, much to my surprise. He just hasn't been a liability out there. The one play where he stayed with Carmelo's drive all the way to the basket and I think blocked his shot was very impressive.
I like how he's sort of the PF version of Bradley strictly in the sense that he moves well off the ball. I love how he cuts immediately into open space when someone, usually Pierce, is doubled in the post. He's a natural.
-
I think Sully has more upside than many people think.
I don't even need to see the upside. The guy is putting up near double-double numbers NOW, and he's getting limited minutes.
I would never trade this guy for Gortat. But I will say that his trade value is SKYROCKETING right now.
-
The funny and scary thing when Sully is on the court is that, when he is assigned to a superstar and a guy who has 4 inches of height on him in Tyson Chandler, you just pray he slows him down. But after 5 minutes you realize he is not only slowing him down, but bullying him down low just like everyone else he has!
That end of the 3rd quarter buzzer beater was pure gold and showed what he was all about. He out played another guy with 4 inches on him, got the offensive rebound and put the ball back in the net. When in reality he had no business even getting the rebound in the first place
Lastly anyone love this kids smile? haha. Its like he knows how much damage he is doing on the court. A good kid he never loudly complains on the court like guys like DMC, Lebron James things don't go his way and keeps on trucking
-
That end of the 3rd quarter buzzer beater was pure gold and showed what he was all about. He out played another guy with 4 inches on him, got the offensive rebound and put the ball back in the net. When in reality he had no business even getting the rebound in the first place
TP
That rebound over Camby was just sully saying "I'm stronger than you, I'm younger than you, I want it more than you. Watch this."
Beautiful rebound.
-
not trading sully for either of those bums.
-
When is the "Hall of Fame Induction"? ;D
-
When is the "Hall of Fame Induction"? ;D
for who? varejao or gortat? ::)
-
I hope that Celtics stick with Sullinger. He may not be an all-star but he could be a solid NBA player for a long time.
-
we still need size, to prevent other teams from changing strategy, in other news it was fun to see Doc actually coaching yesterday....
hey.... I can accept when hes doing it....
-
I'm sure Sully is a warrior, but if someone like Varejao, Sullinger or Marc Gasol becomes available, he's first in line to get shipped out of town.
-
I'm sure Sully is a warrior, but if someone like Varejao, Sullinger or Marc Gasol becomes available, he's first in line to get shipped out of town.
Don't we already have Sullinger.?
-
I'm sure Sully is a warrior, but if someone like Varejao, Sullinger or Marc Gasol becomes available, he's first in line to get shipped out of town.
Don't we already have Sullinger.?
Cousins. Boo. :)
-
I'm converted. Keep Cousins in Sactown, I'll keep Bradley/Sullinger for the time being.
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varejao
Thoughts?
Thoughts: Get ready to pack your bags Sully.
I love you, but Danny will trade you in a heartbeat and your stock is rising....
-
Sully's definitely earned his minutes this season, that's for sure.
I'd hate to see him go, especially after this last handful of games. But the wheel-and-deal machine rolls on, and I'll wish him success wherever he ends up (unless he lands on the Lakers).
-
Never mind all the "Jeff Green needs more minutes" posts. I want Sully to get a lot more minutes. He actually produces every game. He was on a nice role yesterday and Doc yanked him for Bass. I wasn't happy with that substitution.
-
im sure we all regret how the C's traded Joe johnson/Chauncey billups for what at the time were "help for now"
TP!
Outstanding point and I can't possibly agree with you more.
-
Never mind all the "Jeff Green needs more minutes" posts. I want Sully to get a lot more minutes. He actually produces every game. He was on a nice role yesterday and Doc yanked him for Bass. I wasn't happy with that substitution.
Sully had played for about 10 minutes straight sandwiched around the quarter break. He was almost certainly gassed at that point.
I was a little shocked Doc didn't give KG a break in the fourth.
-
Never mind all the "Jeff Green needs more minutes" posts. I want Sully to get a lot more minutes. He actually produces every game. He was on a nice role yesterday and Doc yanked him for Bass. I wasn't happy with that substitution.
Sully had played for about 10 minutes straight sandwiched around the quarter break. He was almost certainly gassed at that point.
I was a little shocked Doc didn't give KG a break in the fourth.
Yeah, and I thought he should have gotten a short rest and come back in. The gap between he and Bass widens with every game.
-
where has this idea come from that Gortat is some sort of star?
Sullinger is only going to get better and better...now im not saying we can NEVER trade him. but trading a guy with sullys potential(even if its to be a trade chip for a star in the future) for a role-player like Gortat??
im sure we all regret how the C's traded Joe johnson/Chauncey billups for what at the time were "help for now"
JJ yes, Chauncey never.
I like Sully but would want to keep him if we're getting Gortat or Varejao.
That's funny considering Chauncey had a better career.
-
where has this idea come from that Gortat is some sort of star?
Sullinger is only going to get better and better...now im not saying we can NEVER trade him. but trading a guy with sullys potential(even if its to be a trade chip for a star in the future) for a role-player like Gortat??
im sure we all regret how the C's traded Joe johnson/Chauncey billups for what at the time were "help for now"
JJ yes, Chauncey never.
I like Sully but would want to keep him if we're getting Gortat or Varejao.
That's funny considering Chauncey had a better career.
Billups also bounced around to 3 other teams before he finally put it together in Detroit.
Joe Johnson's also got quite a bit of career left. I'd rank them as similar level players, though Chauncey obviously has had a lot more team success.
-
im sure we all regret how the C's traded Joe johnson/Chauncey billups for what at the time were "help for now"
TP!
Outstanding point and I can't possibly agree with you more.
We did the same thing when we left off Al and GG for Garnett though, or when we traded the pick for Ray Allen.
Sometimes, it works. Sometimes, it don't.
-
Anybody else see the stat that Sully has caught up and tied KG in plus minus?
-
Sully's bball iq is what makes him special. he does so many things right out there. He picks them up quickly, thus hes improving quickly.
I dont want to trade him. I think he can improve enough to be a star in the league. his bball iq together with bradley's defense changed the game. we witnessed the potential celts future, and it looked really good.
watching this team, i think the best move is a trade for some sort of serviceable big (dalembert?) and keep our young players. if the team stays consistent like this they're contenders. its not worth trading a guy like sully for gortat, for example...
-
Sully was projected as a top five talent for most of his college career. The injury possibility is what made him drop to us.
I'm telling you he's got a shot to be Kevin love 2.0. Keep working on the jumper and slimming down and he can be that good. Look at love in college and his rookie year. Sully is incredibly similar.
Love with exceptional defense :o
-
Gawd I love that kid! 8)
-
Can we now assume that when he wants #7 in the game, Doc says, "Sullinger....COME OUT AND PLAYYYY"
TP for "The Warriors" reference. Fun movie.
-
where has this idea come from that Gortat is some sort of star?
Sullinger is only going to get better and better...now im not saying we can NEVER trade him. but trading a guy with sullys potential(even if its to be a trade chip for a star in the future) for a role-player like Gortat??
im sure we all regret how the C's traded Joe johnson/Chauncey billups for what at the time were "help for now"
JJ yes, Chauncey never.
I like Sully but would want to keep him if we're getting Gortat or Varejao.
That's funny considering Chauncey had a better career.
Billups also bounced around to 3 other teams before he finally put it together in Detroit.
Joe Johnson's also got quite a bit of career left. I'd rank them as similar level players, though Chauncey obviously has had a lot more team success.
I'll give you similar as far as the grand scheme of things, but I still think Chauncey has been better. Better defender, better passer, better shooter, better at drawing fouls, much better leader, much better in end of game situations when it really counts.
Pretty equal scorers, although it's worth mentioning Johnson has never reached 56% TS for a season, something Chauncey has done 8 times, with 5 of those being over 60%. Johnson is better in isolation, whereas Billups is a bit more versatile. He's better at getting others involved and making his teammates better.
That's a whole lot of "better" and not much to be said for the other way around. And this completely ignores the most important part, winning. I consider Johnson an extremely underrated passer, defender, post-up player, hell, player period. But even if you're saying he's on the same level, it's ridiculous that anybody would go back and keep Johnson but "never" Billups.
-
I don't get the common refrain that Sully is "undersized." Yes, he is undersized for a CENTER. But he is a prototypical NBA power forward.
Sully is a legit 6'9", with the reach of someone a couple inches taller. He is a LOAD. Chris Bosh and Josh Smith are not going to beat him for many rebounds, even though they are much quicker and jump much higher.
Sully does all the things you want an NBA big to do. He will get some shots blocked. When you take it down low, you will get blocked sometimes. Who cares. He is going to keep battling and he will score down there more than he wont.
I can't believe 20 teams passed on this guy. ROYCE WHITE??????
-
I don't get the common refrain that Sully is "undersized." Yes, he is undersized for a CENTER. But he is a prototypical NBA power forward.
He's not undersized. He's just not particularly long or athletic, so he plays smaller than his size.
-
people are too obsessed with "athletic/long" Sullinger has already proven he can go out there and grab rebounds from those guys who are "more athletic" just by using his body and positioning.
he went toe-to-toe with Tyson chandler one of the more agressive centers in the nba...and he held his own
-
people are too obsessed with "athletic/long" Sullinger has already proven he can go out there and grab rebounds from those guys who are "more athletic" just by using his body and positioning.
he went toe-to-toe with Tyson chandler one of the more agressive centers in the nba...and he held his own
The problem is not rebounding - finishing at the rim, challenging shots, and defending the post (against players with offensive moves beyond the wide open dunk) are.
-
people are too obsessed with "athletic/long" Sullinger has already proven he can go out there and grab rebounds from those guys who are "more athletic" just by using his body and positioning.
he went toe-to-toe with Tyson chandler one of the more agressive centers in the nba...and he held his own
The problem is not rebounding - finishing at the rim, challenging shots, and defending the post (against players with offensive moves beyond the wide open dunk) are.
we have to keep in mind though, the kid is only a rookie....athletically he's very similar to kevin love. and he seems to have had no problem scoring.
it would only make sense that he can only improve in that department with time.
-
The problem is not rebounding - finishing at the rim, challenging shots, and defending the post (against players with offensive moves beyond the wide open dunk) are.
This TP.
Kid is a player, he has strengths and some disadvantages.
I think as he gains strength he will be able to push people around and push people out of position more like BBD did. I do not think he will ever challenge shots but he can get people out of position and change their comfort level.
-
people are too obsessed with "athletic/long" Sullinger has already proven he can go out there and grab rebounds from those guys who are "more athletic" just by using his body and positioning.
he went toe-to-toe with Tyson chandler one of the more agressive centers in the nba...and he held his own
The problem is not rebounding - finishing at the rim, challenging shots, and defending the post (against players with offensive moves beyond the wide open dunk) are.
we have to keep in mind though, the kid is only a rookie....athletically he's very similar to kevin love. and he seems to have had no problem scoring.
it would only make sense that he can only improve in that department with time.
Similar size, yes. Similar athleticism, not qutie.
Love came out considerably more athletic (better verticals, better agility drill, better 3/4 court sprint), and was still considered below average for NBA standards.
Also, Sullinger has lower body fat, for what it's worth -- so Love may have been in worse shape at that point.
-
The problem is not rebounding - finishing at the rim, challenging shots, and defending the post (against players with offensive moves beyond the wide open dunk) are.
This TP.
Kid is a player, he has strengths and some disadvantages.
I think as he gains strength he will be able to push people around and push people out of position more like BBD did. I do not think he will ever challenge shots but he can get people out of position and change their comfort level.
I'm not saying he's not going to be a player. I'm quietly optimistic. But if he is, that's going to be because of skill, smarts, and general intangibles. Not because he's a special physical specimen in any respect.
-
Adrian Dantley: Too slow and short to score in the paint
Wes Unseld: Could "never" play center, also too short
Charles Barkely: "Way too short" to play in the paint
Dennis Rodman: Could never play Shaq straight up on D
Hell, Larry Bird can't jump. or run.
I'[m not saying Sully's sniffs any of the above's at this point but the point is that some guys, it doesn't matter if they're a little shorter or slower, they're going to figure out the way to kick your butt anyway.
Sully is one of those guys.
But let's not forget. He may only be 6'8" or 6'9" but he has a 7 foot plus reach, he's not a T-rex like Big baby.
Also, everyone says how slow he is. I didn't see that in Summer league and I haven't seen it in the NBA so far either.
Either he's a genius on rotations and he knwos where everyone is going to be at all times and just goes there first. Or, maybe he's a better athlete than alot of people give him credit for.
But what I like best about Sully? You dont' want to meet him in a dark alley - he's an all in type of player and he had his butt handed to him his whole life by his bigger brothers - I'm sure he's taken alot worse physical beatings on a basketball court growing up than he's ever had in college or the pros. The kid is tough. He "likes" the contact.
Give him two more years, about 15 pounds of muslce in place of Baby fat - very possibly a 20-10 guys, especially once the refs accept his game in the paint. He'll spend entire quarters at the foul line.
The kid is not nearly as pudgy as Big baby either. With training he can and probably will be much more like Perkins or malone in physique than Baby or Zach randolph type.
He's only 20 and he appears to have a lot of natural strenth.
-
Sully is one of those guys.
Look at these guys and compare their rookie stats to Sully and tell me that he is one of these guys. You will find that his rookie stats are more akin to Trex than these hall of famers.
-
Yeah True. I did say his ability does not scare the above's ability. Not sure if you caught that.
What makes Sully special, at whatever level he evenatually achieves, which I do think will be a 20/10 guy, is that it's a big mistake to look at a guy with his mentality and say he's too short or too slow, he can't do that.
Sully is "one of those guys" who figures out how to beat your ass with what he's got. That is a special quality and it's a quality those hall of famers also had.
That was my point - not that Jared Sullinger is Larry Bird.
For me, that's not a quality in a player I trade away easily. Rondo also has that quality - he cant' shoot, but he can figure out how to score 40 on you when he wants to.
So whether Sully turns into a HOF'r or just a great, great role guy - it's the mindset and intangibles to his game that I'm talking about that I think are unique and valuable.
-
What makes Sully special, at whatever level he evenatually achieves, which I do think will be a 20/10 guy, is that it's a big mistake to look at a guy with his mentality and say he's too short or too slow, he can't do that.
Just an aside, but the 20/10 milestone is pretty tough to achieve. Currently, not a single player in the NBA is averaging 20/10, although David Lee comes close (19.9 / 10.9).
In fact, only six guys are averaging as many as 17 points and 8.5 rebounds:
Link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=17&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=8.5&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g&order_by_asc=Y).
I was pretty surprised by that.
-
My hope is his ceiling will be 17 and 10. Although I'm feeling pretty greedy asking for that.
-
What makes Sully special, at whatever level he evenatually achieves, which I do think will be a 20/10 guy, is that it's a big mistake to look at a guy with his mentality and say he's too short or too slow, he can't do that.
Just an aside, but the 20/10 milestone is pretty tough to achieve. Currently, not a single player in the NBA is averaging 20/10, although David Lee comes close (19.9 / 10.9).
In fact, only six guys are averaging as many as 17 points and 8.5 rebounds:
Link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=17&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=8.5&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g&order_by_asc=Y).
I was pretty surprised by that.
I'm not as surprised. This league just isn't about scoring down low anymore. There's plenty of guys that can easily grab you ten rebounds. It's getting the looks to reach 20 points which is the issue.
-
Thanks Roy, good info. I think I've heard the "he's a 20/10" guy so much, even form the pundit sportscasters, that it makes it seem like every team has a 20/10 guy.
I'm suprised by that as well - and I take back my 20/10 comment...
On the other hand, if there are only a handful of guys in the league who are currently averaging 17.5 points and 8.5 rebounds a game, the value I place on Jared Sullinger just went through the roof.
This kid is a 20 year old rookie who I think could easily, easily, easily be averaging 10 points and 5 boards a night during the second half of the season.
Extrapolating out 2 years of weight training, conditioning and experience, 15 & 8 doesn't seem like an impossible target - and that would be sniffing top ten status as a big man in the league.
He will figure out more and more how to get his shot in the paint - he's already made leaps and bounds on that aspect so far. What increases this kid's chances of scoring higher numbers are his better than average jump shot and his "very" good foul shooting.
I also think this group of veterans will ride him more and more as he slowly proves he can be a post threat in ISO's on the block and displays good passing abilities out of the post...
He has very good potential and he's a high, high character kid - I'd really like it if we waited a bit more for before trading him for someone like Gortat.
if Cousins wasn't a headcase I'd seriously consider trading Sully and maybe even Bradley for him because he could be a top 3 center. But trading for Cousins to me is like trading for Bynum - "hope" that goes well...
-
the last 10 games he's been averaging around 7.5ppg, 6.7RPG on 53% shooting...so his stats have steadily been rising as the season goes forward.
I could see him being a 10/10 guy by the end of the season.
its also something to note that he is tied with KG for the best +/- on the team
-
Sully is def getting close to becoming my full time binky. When that happens I will dismiss all trades involving him and will assume his floor is hofer lol
-
The only reason any of the young guys are "touchable," is that we have minimal time left with KG and PP. Otherwise, trading Bradley, Rondo or Sullinger is madness.(youth, improvement, great contracts, mad dog desire, etc) Id add Melo, Lee, Green, and perhaps even Bass to that list which I know NO ONE will agree with, and we would obviously covet all future draft picks.
But we do have PP and KG and we have maybe a 2 year window. (This window thing is extended so far to be ridiculous but who knew KG was eternal?) And because of that window, AND how much worse we still are without KG on the court, the future is still now. So almost everyone is up for grabs. Having said that, I feel the only players who should be untradeable are PP, KG, Bradley, and Sullinger. Rondo is nearly untradeable but Id still take Paul for him, or some other otherworldy package.
I don't know Bradley's upside. Frankly, I think its higher than Joe Dumars. Its Joe Dumars as the greatest on ball defender in NBA history. Thats the upside. a 6'2" Jordan on D, and Dumars on offense or better
Not trading that.
Sullinger is a bigger Paul Silas with a nastier attitude. I don't know what to compare him to more recently. A relatively earth bound guy who is probably actually almost 6'10' and has really long arms and very wide and positions himself perfectly at all times? A smaller Kevin Love? In any case, no way I let him go either.
Rondo? Rondo has barely played with the other young guys. Its absurdly short sighted not give him run with Sully, Bradley, and perhaps Lee, and Green and Melo
Bass isn't old either. We have a good young core and we best be really careful if we are going to shake that up.
GO CELTICS!
-
What do you guys think Sully's attitudes are towards the walls of heartache?
-
Others commented on his the detrimental aspects of his size - finishing around the rim and guarding the post, specifically. These are the two areas I am most impressed by. He has shown to be a great finisher around the rim, despite size, and he beats people to their spots in the post. He plays FAR BIGGER than his size at 6'9", despite the lack of athleticism that others suggested impact his game otherwise. If healthy, he will be a borderline all-star for many years, if placed in the right situation...
-
What makes Sully special, at whatever level he evenatually achieves, which I do think will be a 20/10 guy, is that it's a big mistake to look at a guy with his mentality and say he's too short or too slow, he can't do that.
Just an aside, but the 20/10 milestone is pretty tough to achieve. Currently, not a single player in the NBA is averaging 20/10, although David Lee comes close (19.9 / 10.9).
In fact, only six guys are averaging as many as 17 points and 8.5 rebounds:
Link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=17&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=8.5&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g&order_by_asc=Y).
I was pretty surprised by that.
That is surprising. How many 20 and 10 guys were there in 2007? 5?
KG, Duncan, Boozer..Big Al had it in 08..
-
im sure we all regret how the C's traded Joe johnson/Chauncey billups for what at the time were "help for now"
TP!
Outstanding point and I can't possibly agree with you more.
We did the same thing when we left off Al and GG for Garnett though, or when we traded the pick for Ray Allen.
Sometimes, it works. Sometimes, it don't.
Kg was a sure fire hall of famer and ray was an all-star. Tony delk, Rodney Rogers, and even Kenny Anderson at that point not so much.
-
im sure we all regret how the C's traded Joe johnson/Chauncey billups for what at the time were "help for now"
TP!
Outstanding point and I can't possibly agree with you more.
We did the same thing when we left off Al and GG for Garnett though, or when we traded the pick for Ray Allen.
Sometimes, it works. Sometimes, it don't.
Kg was a sure fire hall of famer and ray was an all-star. Tony delk, Rodney Rogers, and even Kenny Anderson at that point not so much.
True. But Al Jefferson and Gerald Green were the most promising prospects in how long?
Just sayin, trading prospects for matured talent is a risky game on both sides.
-
In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....
I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varajaeo
Thoughts?
for Gortat or Varejao No way. For Cousins yes.
I'd move Sully for Varejao in a heart beat. He'd make us immediate top-tier contenders. A mobile, excellent defender who can play both front court positions and who is an elite rebounder? That's exactly what this team needs.
Gortat isn't as good as Varejao, but I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal, too. Sully's play lately has made me hesitate on that more than I would have a couple of weeks ago, though.
Agreed. Sully is improving past, but there is a ceiling for undersized play under the rim big man. He is a warrior, but Gortat/Varejao/Cousins are better players than Sully ever can be.
There is no way you could possibly know that . With his natural talent, work ethic, and willingness to learn, I could definitely see him being as good or better than all you listed.
-
I don't get the common refrain that Sully is "undersized." Yes, he is undersized for a CENTER. But he is a prototypical NBA power forward.
He's not undersized. He's just not particularly long or athletic, so he plays smaller than his size.
I just think this is factually untrue. His standing reach is roughly the same as Moultrie's or Thomas Robinson's, and only 2 inches shorter than Anthony Davis. I bet no one would ever claim these 3 are undersized (maybe Robinson).
Add in the fact that he is BIGGER than almost everyone from the draft class of 2012, in that he weighs around 265, and I would argue that he actually plays BIGGER than his size, which is about 6'9" in shoes.
I just think that a lot of NBA teams screwed themselves over-analyzing this kid when it was clear as day he had a ton of skill and game and had the perfect body for an NBA bruising PF.
-
What makes Sully special, at whatever level he evenatually achieves, which I do think will be a 20/10 guy, is that it's a big mistake to look at a guy with his mentality and say he's too short or too slow, he can't do that.
Just an aside, but the 20/10 milestone is pretty tough to achieve. Currently, not a single player in the NBA is averaging 20/10, although David Lee comes close (19.9 / 10.9).
In fact, only six guys are averaging as many as 17 points and 8.5 rebounds:
Link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=17&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=8.5&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g&order_by_asc=Y).
I was pretty surprised by that.
Tp....good stat...not many scoring big bodies left in the nba....
By the way what's up with your tp count? I haven't been here in a while!
-
the last 10 games he's been averaging around 7.5ppg, 6.7RPG on 53% shooting...so his stats have steadily been rising as the season goes forward.
I could see him being a 10/10 guy by the end of the season.
its also something to note that he is tied with KG for the best +/- on the team
The +/- stat is the most impressive to me. If his team defense keeps progressing and he is a hair quicker on anticipating rotations to avois fouls...this guy will be a monster for us.
-
I don't use undersized to label sully anymore. BC is not. But he does play under the rim which is not ez for pf/c to play effectively. Robinson plays above the rim though he is similar in height and size. Guys like faried above the rim. Barkley, only 6'6 but had like 7'2 wingspan and can jump out of the gym.
At worse sully will be a consistent 12/8 guy and best 15/10. Even at 12/8 he will be a very good starter BC he does alot of other non stat things that help a team win
-
the last 10 games he's been averaging around 7.5ppg, 6.7RPG on 53% shooting...so his stats have steadily been rising as the season goes forward.
I could see him being a 10/10 guy by the end of the season.
its also something to note that he is tied with KG for the best +/- on the team
The +/- stat is the most impressive to me. If his team defense keeps progressing and he is a hair quicker on anticipating rotations to avois fouls...this guy will be a monster for us.
The awesome thing is he's only what 20? He is a rook drafted by C's around hall of famers and is not rattled one bit by anything. That Knicks game was as close as a playoff atmosphere as you can get and he thrived. I love me some Sully kid will only get better.