Author Topic: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI  (Read 41888 times)

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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #255 on: February 05, 2018, 11:57:48 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Yeah but it still hurts. And I have ZERO CLUE why Butler didn't play at all.
He played. Just not on defense...
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #256 on: February 05, 2018, 11:59:29 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I get what you guys are saying. "Malcolm Butler is better than Eric Rowe or another backup". After the Seattle SB win, you won't be able to get me to say that Deion Sanders was better than Butler. I'm a big Butler fan.

I just think that singling out Butler's absence is incomplete. It may be one reason that they lost, but I'm sure there are many more. Nick Foles was on fire. I'm not convinced that Butler intercepts/deflects many of those perfectly thrown passes.

"Well all it would take is one more good play by Butler." I'm not sure about that. There's a chance that Philly was going to win that game, regardless of what team they played. They looked very similar to the team that destroyed Minnesota's defense two weeks ago.

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #257 on: February 05, 2018, 11:59:37 AM »

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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #258 on: February 05, 2018, 12:02:09 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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Yeah but it still hurts. And I have ZERO CLUE why Butler didn't play at all.
He played. Just not on defense...

Yep. Like 1 play on Special Teams.  ::)
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #259 on: February 05, 2018, 12:04:23 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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I'm just glad everyone (including Patriots haters) are letting Max Kellerman have it with his Cliff arguments against Brady.  ::)  >:(
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #260 on: February 05, 2018, 12:09:29 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I'm just glad everyone (including Patriots haters) are letting Max Kellerman have it with his Cliff arguments against Brady.  ::)  >:(
I don't care about the cliff and all that, but frankly I'm having a hard time rooting for Brady now that he has willingly associated himself with two known quacks in Chopra and Guerrero to sell snake-oil... That's a separate conversation, though.
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #261 on: February 05, 2018, 12:09:34 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I'm just glad everyone (including Patriots haters) are letting Max Kellerman have it with his Cliff arguments against Brady.  ::)  >:(

505 yards. In the land of the hot take, Max is as cold as ice.

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #262 on: February 05, 2018, 12:26:02 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Games like this are why the argument “only rings matter” is a little too simplistic. Is Brady in any way diminished for “failing” on the big stage?

There was a ton of offensive precision in that game. Nick Foles looked like an All-Pro, and Brady dropped 500 yards. One of them had to lose, but neither should be criticized because they couldn’t finish it out. That was epic.


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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #263 on: February 05, 2018, 12:31:15 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Games like this are why the argument “only rings matter” is a little too simplistic. Is Brady in any way diminished for “failing” on the big stage?

There was a ton of offensive precision in that game. Nick Foles looked like an All-Pro, and Brady dropped 500 yards. One of them had to lose, but neither should be criticized because they couldn’t finish it out. That was epic.
No-one is criticizing the QBs. Our defense allowed the Eagles to go 12 for 18 on 3rd and 4th downs, and you're not going to win many games that way.
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #264 on: February 05, 2018, 12:31:45 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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I'm just glad everyone (including Patriots haters) are letting Max Kellerman have it with his Cliff arguments against Brady.  ::)  >:(

505 yards. In the land of the hot take, Max is as cold as ice.

Last year he legit tweeted out "Cliff" during the SB while Pats were down 21-0 after TB threw a Pick 6, then the Pats won the SB and he still talked about how the cliff was coming for Brady and there were signs of it in the game  ::)  :laugh:
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #265 on: February 05, 2018, 12:37:01 PM »

Offline blink

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Games like this are why the argument “only rings matter” is a little too simplistic. Is Brady in any way diminished for “failing” on the big stage?

There was a ton of offensive precision in that game. Nick Foles looked like an All-Pro, and Brady dropped 500 yards. One of them had to lose, but neither should be criticized because they couldn’t finish it out. That was epic.

I completely agree with this.  It was a great game, neither def could get any stops, and it was just a classic shootout.  Brady in no way 'failed' you pats fans.  Neither did Belichick either btw.

I just want to comment on the 'blame Belichick for the loss' overreaction...
Man I can't believe I am about to defend Bill Belichick, but...does anyone here really know why Butler didn't play?  Maybe there was more to the story.  Belichick isn't historically very open with the media. 

Do you think that a head coach that has led his team to 8 super bowls as a head coach and 2 more as a def coordinator doesn't know what he is doing?  I agree that everyone can be second guessed, because everyone makes mistakes even Brady and Belichick.  But the Belichick bashing just comes off as so whiny when you look at the big picture.  5 super bowl wins, 8 super bowl appearances, 15 AFC east titles. 

Try looking at the coaches the dolphins, bills and jets have had over the last 15 years and get a little perspective.  The Eagles, Doug Peterson, and Nick Foles were just better last night.  Eagles needed to pretty much play a perfect game to win, and they basically did that on offense. 

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #266 on: February 05, 2018, 12:38:11 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Games like this are why the argument “only rings matter” is a little too simplistic. Is Brady in any way diminished for “failing” on the big stage?

There was a ton of offensive precision in that game. Nick Foles looked like an All-Pro, and Brady dropped 500 yards. One of them had to lose, but neither should be criticized because they couldn’t finish it out. That was epic.

Agree. Not one thing matters- the entire context should be considered.

SB wins should be the #1 (and #2 and #3 metric), but there are other relevant stats. Longevity stats are also important. Anyone can win one big game (look at Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer). The ability to get into these big games consistently is what impresses me most.

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #267 on: February 05, 2018, 12:52:23 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Line play wins playoff games.

Pats d-line was terrible all year.

O-line ran out of gas in the 4th quarter fending off an athletic and deep Eagles front.  Brady never had a chance to make the comeback because he couldn't get protection.


Maybe invest in some defensive talent next time!


That was one of the worst defensive performances I can remember from the Pats in a big game.  Eagles got basically everything they wanted all game, with the exception of a fluky bounce leading to an interception at the 5 yard line.
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #268 on: February 05, 2018, 12:54:44 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Games like this are why the argument “only rings matter” is a little too simplistic. Is Brady in any way diminished for “failing” on the big stage?

There was a ton of offensive precision in that game. Nick Foles looked like an All-Pro, and Brady dropped 500 yards. One of them had to lose, but neither should be criticized because they couldn’t finish it out. That was epic.


Nick Foles played a great game, but was hardly pressured all game.

Brady played well, but couldn't get protection at the end of the game, ending the comeback attempt before it really began.


Both quarterbacks played well, the big difference was the line play.  I think Foles is good, but I don't think he's as good as he looked last night.  A lot of QBs would have looked good against the Pats D.
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #269 on: February 05, 2018, 01:08:34 PM »

Online johnnygreen

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If Brady can soak in all the credit for victories, then he should also take some of the blame. Statistically, Brady played great. However part of a quarterbacks job is to change/control tempo and keep your defense off the field. I think Foles clearly outperformed Brady in that area. Philly lead the time of possession with basically 34 minutes, as compared to NE 26. Maybe that extra time off the field helped Philly's defense, which may have also impacted the stamina to get that strip sack.

I thought the Ertz touch down was clearly a touch down, even without the replay. I'm still uncertain as to why Collinswoth was seemingly trying to create some sort of controversy. I didn't need a replay to see that he took three steps with the ball, which made him a runner, and then crossed the goal line with the ball. Even when he crossed the line, both of his hands were on the ball when he hit the ground, and he caught it again after the ball popped up in the air. The ball was never on the ground without Ertz's hands on the ball.

Doug Pederson had a great game plan and was not afraid to be aggressive when necessary. Far too many times, coaches play everything by the book when playing the Pats, and they wonder why they usually fall short. I only questioned two calls from Philly. Why run the ball on second down with 2:03 left in the game? I thought they should have ran play action or an RPO and threw the ball to try and get the first down. The clock was going to stop on that play regardless because of the two minute warning. The other thing I was surprised at was why Philly didn't take a chance on an onside kick after one of their second half scores. The Philly defense couldn't stop Brady once, so what difference does it make if you miss the onside kick and Brady ends up only scoring on a 50 yard drive, as opposed to a 75 yard drive?

As for Malcom Butler, I'm not sure if we'll ever know what really happened. If I had to guess, did Butler or his agent, take the time during the two weeks leading up to yesterday to bring up his contract to Bill? Butler literally did make the game winning play to win the Super Bowl 3 years ago, so I don't think it's out of the question of Butler or his agent bringing that back up. Was Bill trying to make a statement that he didn't need Butler to win a Super Bowl? Bill could have ended most of this controversy if he simply said he was benched because of a disciplinary reason, instead of the obvious bogus one he gave.