Report: Hayward favouritism caused issues

[gouki88]

I also think it grew due to some delusions of grandeur from some of our guys, chiefly Rozier

I don't think it was even just Rozier, honestly. I could see Brown having issues - especially as Brad's had a short hook with him when he made mistakes. Same with Tatum. They're not entirely justified, but you can see how Gordon may have been viewed as the coach's pet.

Yeah, this is where I was going with the post I just made! Too many players thought they were due more than they were given

I think it was compounded by Brad's "hands off" coaching. There were reports right after the season ended that Brad generally let players police themselves and he tried to step in too late. This was the season where Brad really needed to adjust his coaching style to manage personalities and expectations in a way he hasn't before. He failed at it.

This is interesting to me. Usually college coaches enter the NBA and try to bring that same control and discipline over every little detail, and it alienates modern players. Brad did the opposite; he treated guys like professionals and it's not only been successful, it was universally praised across the league by coaches, executives and players alike. He was the boy genius. Now he's being criticized for not being more of a general.

I'm not saying you're wrong; it's just interesting.

But that's my point. You can't just assume what worked with one mix of players is going to work with a different mix of players. Some lockerrooms can police themselves while others can't. It's up to the coach - especially one dubbed boy genius - to understand and manage his team.

So you think Pop changes his coaching philosophy and manages his team differently each year depending on the vibe of the locker room? Did he fail managing Kawhi ⁠— since he's, you know, been dubbed best coach in the game?

Pop absolutely failed. From not reigning in Parker to seemingly not trusting Kawhi's judgement, he failed miserably.
However Pop has brought a handful of rings and 2 decades of success to that team, and his 2017-2018 period from a personal standpoint was tragic.

You certainly have strong opinions for someone who has no idea what happened in the Spurs locker room.

Rofl. Asks a question, and gets mad when someone has an opinion that differs from theirs. Nice.

Pop obviously failed

I didn't get mad. I just think your hyperbole is silly and misguided.

What hyperbole? Popovich should have stopped Tony Parker from publicly trashing Kawhi and saying that he'd endured a worse injury, but he just let it happen. Pop should have encouraged Kawhi to do what he wanted in terms of his injury, but he didn't, and it came off that the Spurs didn't care about his well-being.

This isn't hyperbole, this is publicly available knowledge.

It's hyperbolic to say the most respected coach in the game,  with a long history of getting along well with mercurial players, and who's won multiple championship rings, "failed miserably" in dealing with Kawhi's situation. You don't know the true severity of the injury, and you don't know the chronology of how the relationship deteriorated or who was truly in the wrong. Maybe both sides had valid reasons for doing what they did, maybe both were stubborn, maybe there were no easy answers and once Kawhi felt wronged, real or imagined, there was no chance at reconciliation no matter who the coach was?

Maybe he had an agent or an uncle or some friends in his ear, giving him bad advice? Maybe he just wanted to play in LA?

I don't know what happened inside that player's only meeting. Tony Parker wasn't the only one who was vocal and questioned Kawhi's desire to play. How would you feel if Kyrie left the team to rehab on his own and his teammates questioned his desire to play?

It's not publicly available knowledge that Pop failed miserably. This is a hot take gone sideways.

LOL. I must've missed the memo where previous successes mean that a coach is absolved of all failings. I guess Brad can just wash his hands and claim this season had nothing to do with him because he had routinely produced overachievers prior to that.

I don't know why you're getting so defensive over Pop, and I don't really care. He screwed up majorly in the way he handled that, and you can argue otherwise until the cows come home.

[__ramonezy__]

I don't give much credence to this report... the only player I can see making complaints about starting is Rozier... given his personality and impending contract year. But if an All-Star is fit to play, he plays...

[Silky]

Some of us have been placing alot of blame firmly on Gordons shoulders. So this is no surprise to me.

I only hope gordon gets moved this offseason in some sort of sign and trade.

Ie: offer a big contract to vucevic, if he accepts orlando might like hayward as their sg/sf as opposed to losing vucevic for nothing.

Or maybe same thibg with Kemba.

[Silky]

I don't give much credence to this report... the only player I can see making complaints about starting is Rozier... given his personality and impending contract year. But if an All-Star is fit to play, he plays...

Unless said allstar is hindering the improvement of a player who has the potential of superstar.

And gordon is FAR from allstar last seadon.

[LilRip]

In hindsight, this team was a train wreck waiting to happen, chemistry-wise. Inflated egos from the previous season, fake-wanting to be there for each other because it’s the politically correct thing to do, but still wanting to be the man.

Kyrie’s off court shenanigans and comments aside, I felt like he played the right way on the court for most of the season. So did Horford and especially Smart. Hayward was a lost cause, his confidence was shot. Tatum, Brown, Morris, and Rozier all played like they had something to prove (which is usually a good thing) and it only helped sink the team faster. Guys didn’t want to “give up their spot”, which is understandable and which management should’ve seen coming.

[Celtics4ever]

Some of us have been placing alot of blame firmly on Gordons shoulders. So this is no surprise to me.

I only hope gordon gets moved this offseason in some sort of sign and trade.

I don't think Gordon favoritism has anything to do with Gordon making the call to play before he was ready.   I think it was CBS and Ainge, trying to boost his fragile confidence and it back fired.   If it worked we would be a lot stronger team in the playoffs, it did not, we tossed the dice and came up short on this one.

[seancally]

Some of us have been placing alot of blame firmly on Gordons shoulders. So this is no surprise to me.

I only hope gordon gets moved this offseason in some sort of sign and trade.

Ie: offer a big contract to vucevic, if he accepts orlando might like hayward as their sg/sf as opposed to losing vucevic for nothing.

Or maybe same thibg with Kemba.

PSA: we aren’t moving Hayward until he shows he’s returning to form, if at all. Trading him now is idiotic. His value will increase.

I’m in the camp of don’t trade him, but let’s at least see how the first few months look.

[cltc5]

IM tired of the excuse.  You’re professional.  Grow up and get your act together and do your job!

[RJ87]

I also think it grew due to some delusions of grandeur from some of our guys, chiefly Rozier

I don't think it was even just Rozier, honestly. I could see Brown having issues - especially as Brad's had a short hook with him when he made mistakes. Same with Tatum. They're not entirely justified, but you can see how Gordon may have been viewed as the coach's pet.

Yeah, this is where I was going with the post I just made! Too many players thought they were due more than they were given

I think it was compounded by Brad's "hands off" coaching. There were reports right after the season ended that Brad generally let players police themselves and he tried to step in too late. This was the season where Brad really needed to adjust his coaching style to manage personalities and expectations in a way he hasn't before. He failed at it.

This is interesting to me. Usually college coaches enter the NBA and try to bring that same control and discipline over every little detail, and it alienates modern players. Brad did the opposite; he treated guys like professionals and it's not only been successful, it was universally praised across the league by coaches, executives and players alike. He was the boy genius. Now he's being criticized for not being more of a general.

I'm not saying you're wrong; it's just interesting.

But that's my point. You can't just assume what worked with one mix of players is going to work with a different mix of players. Some lockerrooms can police themselves while others can't. It's up to the coach - especially one dubbed boy genius - to understand and manage his team.

So you think Pop changes his coaching philosophy and manages his team differently each year depending on the vibe of the locker room? Did he fail managing Kawhi ⁠— since he's, you know, been dubbed best coach in the game?

Pop absolutely failed. From not reigning in Parker to seemingly not trusting Kawhi's judgement, he failed miserably.
However Pop has brought a handful of rings and 2 decades of success to that team, and his 2017-2018 period from a personal standpoint was tragic.

You certainly have strong opinions for someone who has no idea what happened in the Spurs locker room.

Lol you asked. Don't get snippy because people disagree.

And I agree. Pop failed. Kawhi is left, didn't he?

Kawhi can be a great player and also someone who was in the wrong for quitting on the Spurs last year (not saying that was the case; it's one possible narrative, though). That doesn't mean Pop "failed miserably."

And please don't tell me what to do.

Don't put words into my mouth.

How about we just don't engage in a back & forth anymore? A poster answered your question respectfully - even though it had nothing to do with Brad and this team -there was no need to be rude.

[gouki88]

Some of us have been placing alot of blame firmly on Gordons shoulders. So this is no surprise to me.

I only hope gordon gets moved this offseason in some sort of sign and trade.

Ie: offer a big contract to vucevic, if he accepts orlando might like hayward as their sg/sf as opposed to losing vucevic for nothing.

Or maybe same thibg with Kemba.

PSA: we aren’t moving Hayward until he shows he’s returning to form, if at all. Trading him now is idiotic. His value will increase.

I’m in the camp of don’t trade him, but let’s at least see how the first few months look.

TP! Thank you

[tonydelk]

Honestly this story is BS.  If these guys are so [dang] sensitive that the team tried to get a superstar back to where he was by playing him is ridiculous.  I did not see any stories of the team getting mad that Paul George was back in the starting lineup.  It took him two years to get back to where he was. 

This whole season was a train wreck.  It was all about the individual players and what they wanted.  The fans didn't help much either blaming this player and that player.  Who needs to go.  The Media fed the beast and got everyone to react.  A lot of opinions get formed because of "stories" we read from someone who has a unnamed reliable source close to the team.  (insert friend of a cousin who's brother is a janitor for the team heard someone say something that someone from the office told her brother that his cousin heard telling him)  Because of this we want the team to get rid of hayward, Smart, Rozier Kyrie, Al.  It's all bull.  Everyone from the top of the C's organization to the players to the fans contributed to the Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.e show this season was.  Now the team and we as fans are feeling the repercussions of it.  If everyone leaves this will set the team back years IMO.  This makes it look like the C's have a toxic organization and it's hard to play for the fans.  Boston is already trying to get over the racist stereotype where players don't want to come here because of it now this. 

Let's call a spade a spade and if 20% of the stories are true then.... 

Kyrie didn't lead well and doesn't handle criticism.  He wants to lead his way, play his way and wants everyone to conform to him.  He's still a top 15 player in the league and is a superstar.  Losing him hurts and the team is NOT better without him.

If Al leaves I hope he says I didn't feel the direction of the team was right for me.  I'm coming to the end of my career and want to try to win a championship.  If he leaves because of money then that shocks me on Al.  He's made a ton in his career and making 60m over 3 or 80 over 4 should be enough.  But him leaving hurts the team because Al is a standup guy and if a player sees him leave then they will be weary on the C's.  Losing him can destroy the locker room.

Rozier - ME ME ME ME ME.  He proved this by his swan song tour bashing the team.  I really don't want him back.  Of all the players I'm ok with him leaving and not getting anything.

We go from a playoff team to a lottery team losing Kyrie and Al.  I'm excited to see the Jay's take on lead roles but if they don't develop into superstars it's going to be a long few years.

[celticinorlando]

I want to like Hayward but it is tough at times. He just seems like a guy that is never going to get back to where he needs to be.

He is turning into a bad signing that they cannot get rid of. Last year he was embarrassing to watch. No confidence. Out of shape. Fragile mentally. A 30 mil a year 6th man that passed the ball.

I am just leery of having to count on that guy this year to help shoulder the load. He is worthless on the trade market right now so they are not going to move him.

Maybe this year with pretty much everyone gone he will actually look like a confident, functional player. But IMO he needs to get back to being a starter for this team.

[jbpats]

I imagine there was some sort of favoritism from Stevens due to history and maybe the locker room made it more of a thing then it actually was.

That said Hayward went from an all star to a bench player. He accepted he role coming off of the bench when the rest of the roster were a bunch of Diva's.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I don't give much credence to this report... the only player I can see making complaints about starting is Rozier... given his personality and impending contract year. But if an All-Star is fit to play, he plays...

Unless said allstar is hindering the improvement of a player who has the potential of superstar.

And gordon is FAR from allstar last seadon.

He came off the bench the rest of the way. What more do these Celtics players need him to do, not play at all?

[celticinorlando]

I was often more upset that he was so passive on the floor. He never looked for his own offense and was just out there passing the ball. I was hoping he would be aggressive esp off the bench.

He just seems like a guy who has no clue what his role is with this team. And maybe this year Brad explains that to everyone.