If I had a chance to trade Smart For Elfrid Peyton I would do it in a heartbeat

[GreenWarrior]

Dude wins.

the only stat that matters.

[celtics2030]

This game illustrates what Smart fans have been saying about him all along. He makes winning plays. Every now and than it comes via a big three and a game winner but more often its the little things like being in position to take a charge on Derozan forcing him to fade away late in OT.

Dude wins.

What did you on that play besides be there?

You need a better example, and there are some.

Smart is a competitor who will most of the time want it more than the guys he is facing. Hes got a firy edge to him that no matter what he wants to prove the players hes up against wrong.

If you look at the thread , my points about smart are more about his skill level than his "heart" or hustle.

And I never said he could not improve on those skills. I never put a ceiling on him even though i have my doubts.

[Ilikesports17]

This game illustrates what Smart fans have been saying about him all along. He makes winning plays. Every now and than it comes via a big three and a game winner but more often its the little things like being in position to take a charge on Derozan forcing him to fade away late in OT.

Dude wins.

What did you on that play besides be there?

You need a better example, and there are some.

Smart is a competitor who will most of the time want it more than the guys he is facing. Hes got a firy edge to him that no matter what he wants to prove the players hes up against wrong.

If you look at the thread , my points about smart are more about his skill level than his "heart" or hustle.

And I never said he could not improve on those skills. I never put a ceiling on him even though i have my doubts.

Well he did nothing except be there and that was an incredibly important play. If smart isn't in position there derozan makes yet another lay up and we lose the game. It's just an example of a play that you don't see in highlight packages and I don't think you can teach. I agree that you haven't disparaged his heart and bbiq but you have seemed to dismiss it you typically say something like I don't doubt his heart but he really struggles to get in the paint and finish. Smart had KG like heart. To go across sports how about Tom Brady. Are you a pats fan? If you are if assume you are the type that wanted us to roll with garopollo after the chiefs game because he has a better deep ball and can evade the rush better.

The point is that Marcus Smart is a stud both between the ears and in his heart. On top of this he's taken his biggest deficiency in shooting and improved into a passable shooter. I you watch the games he plays a very small role in the offense but even so he is beginning to get to the basket more effectively. His competitiveness drive and overall positive impact on the game if he can get to be a decent penetrator/ finisher he will be an absolute stud. This is why I'd rather have smart. You can't teach heart just ask the Seattle Seahawks and the NFL about Tom Brady

[Forza Juventus]

Trade Marcus Smart for Elfrid Payton? After one year? When Smart is better? How about no.

[celtics2030]

Trade Marcus Smart for Elfrid Payton? After one year? When Smart is better? How about no.

Trading is about preference.

To me Elfrid is better right now.

[Forza Juventus]

Trade Marcus Smart for Elfrid Payton? After one year? When Smart is better? How about no.

Trading is about preference.

To me Elfrid is better right now.

Why do you think Elfrid is better?

[celtics2030]

This game illustrates what Smart fans have been saying about him all along. He makes winning plays. Every now and than it comes via a big three and a game winner but more often its the little things like being in position to take a charge on Derozan forcing him to fade away late in OT.

Dude wins.

What did you on that play besides be there?

You need a better example, and there are some.

Smart is a competitor who will most of the time want it more than the guys he is facing. Hes got a firy edge to him that no matter what he wants to prove the players hes up against wrong.

If you look at the thread , my points about smart are more about his skill level than his "heart" or hustle.

And I never said he could not improve on those skills. I never put a ceiling on him even though i have my doubts.

Well he did nothing except be there and that was an incredibly important play. If smart isn't in position there derozan makes yet another lay up and we lose the game. It's just an example of a play that you don't see in highlight packages and I don't think you can teach. I agree that you haven't disparaged his heart and bbiq but you have seemed to dismiss it you typically say something like I don't doubt his heart but he really struggles to get in the paint and finish. Smart had KG like heart. To go across sports how about Tom Brady. Are you a pats fan? If you are if assume you are the type that wanted us to roll with garopollo after the chiefs game because he has a better deep ball and can evade the rush better.

The point is that Marcus Smart is a stud both between the ears and in his heart. On top of this he's taken his biggest deficiency in shooting and improved into a passable shooter. I you watch the games he plays a very small role in the offense but even so he is beginning to get to the basket more effectively. His competitiveness drive and overall positive impact on the game if he can get to be a decent penetrator/ finisher he will be an absolute stud. This is why I'd rather have smart. You can't teach heart just ask the Seattle Seahawks and the NFL about Tom Brady

You really dont take heart over talent.

If you want to win 35 games every year with a team that is less talented, Smart is a great fit or what he at this point..

Smart will and should get better anyways.

But im not taking Smart over Elfrid because of "heart"......And I dont think others would either in the NBA unless they are looking to add a small piece.

With that said, Smart has made some nice drives to the basket, hes also gotten fouled on some that the refs decided not to blow the whistle.

Im excited to see if he can improve on things he does average or below average for next year.

[celtics2030]

Trade Marcus Smart for Elfrid Payton? After one year? When Smart is better? How about no.

Trading is about preference.

To me Elfrid is better right now.

Because of is skills. And his potential.

[Forza Juventus]

Trade Marcus Smart for Elfrid Payton? After one year? When Smart is better? How about no.

Trading is about preference.

To me Elfrid is better right now.

Because of is skills. And his potential.

I'm sorry it's just that this is a very long thread. What skills that Elfrid has are better than Smart's in your opinion? And why is his potential better in your opinion?

[Ilikesports17]

This game illustrates what Smart fans have been saying about him all along. He makes winning plays. Every now and than it comes via a big three and a game winner but more often its the little things like being in position to take a charge on Derozan forcing him to fade away late in OT.

Dude wins.

What did you on that play besides be there?

You need a better example, and there are some.

Smart is a competitor who will most of the time want it more than the guys he is facing. Hes got a firy edge to him that no matter what he wants to prove the players hes up against wrong.

If you look at the thread , my points about smart are more about his skill level than his "heart" or hustle.

And I never said he could not improve on those skills. I never put a ceiling on him even though i have my doubts.

Well he did nothing except be there and that was an incredibly important play. If smart isn't in position there derozan makes yet another lay up and we lose the game. It's just an example of a play that you don't see in highlight packages and I don't think you can teach. I agree that you haven't disparaged his heart and bbiq but you have seemed to dismiss it you typically say something like I don't doubt his heart but he really struggles to get in the paint and finish. Smart had KG like heart. To go across sports how about Tom Brady. Are you a pats fan? If you are if assume you are the type that wanted us to roll with garopollo after the chiefs game because he has a better deep ball and can evade the rush better.

The point is that Marcus Smart is a stud both between the ears and in his heart. On top of this he's taken his biggest deficiency in shooting and improved into a passable shooter. I you watch the games he plays a very small role in the offense but even so he is beginning to get to the basket more effectively. His competitiveness drive and overall positive impact on the game if he can get to be a decent penetrator/ finisher he will be an absolute stud. This is why I'd rather have smart. You can't teach heart just ask the Seattle Seahawks and the NFL about Tom Brady

You really dont take heart over talent.

If you want to win 35 games every year with a team that is less talented, Smart is a great fit or what he at this point..

Smart will and should get better anyways.

But im not taking Smart over Elfrid because of "heart"......And I dont think others would either in the NBA unless they are looking to add a small piece.

With that said, Smart has made some nice drives to the basket, hes also gotten fouled on some that the refs decided not to blow the whistle.

Im excited to see if he can improve on things he does average or below average for next year.

My point was that heart and intangibles are more important that  you make them out to be and smart has them in spades. Also dude was a top 10 pick and big time scorer at OK State.

I think Payton is better right now but smart has the physical tools and intangibles to be great. Strength, lateral quickness, wingspan etc. if he can improve his handle and learn how to score over length and tighten up that shot everything else is there. Payton has a lot of tools too but I like smarts better and think he had a better chance to improve them than Payton.

Lastly as Scal mentioned the celtics are 7 games above 500 with smart at the pint and he's certainly not getting worse so your 45 games comment is misleading.

[celtics2030]

But so is that. Too small of a game size, also you have to figure in Isaih as they are 12 and 8 with him as well (not counting when he got hurt for the 5 or so games)

You would have to go into a lot of things for that to mean much, i know they were 1-7 vs the good teams since the break. Most of the teams they have beaten on are the cellar of the east.

You think Smart's are better, I think Elfrid's are better. So its fine to disagree.

I think its true that we need to see a couple more years, specifically next season to make a better assesement ...

When i made this thread, Payton was pretty bad too , i just saw some scouting reports on him after college, and then watched some games, and i saw great things

And now has been on a rookie tear lately. He has 11 double doubles and 2 triple doubles this year. 2nd to Nerlens, and also the only rookie to record a triple double.

He shooting 78% from the free throw line since that horrid boston game he had at the line.

I love his potential, he has been killing since the break.

Smart has been up and down and also been ignored somewhat on offense.

Im not arguing who will be better,

but I will argue that Elfrid has better tools to be a better player.

[celtics2030]

Trade Marcus Smart for Elfrid Payton? After one year? When Smart is better? How about no.

Trading is about preference.

To me Elfrid is better right now.

Because of is skills. And his potential.

I'm sorry it's just that this is a very long thread. What skills that Elfrid has are better than Smart's in your opinion? And why is his potential better in your opinion?

Penetrating,Driving to the basket, finishing, getting points inside the paint, court vision, handle,  passing, athleticism, natural game manager.

Smart better shooter. Better three point shooter. Better free throw shooter. Better defender.


And everything smart is better is pretty bad on his own......36% shooter, 33% three point shooter, and 65% free throw shooter....so hes really not much better at all....Although both should be better numbers wise next year. Elfrid just could not shoot AT ALL , especially in the beginning of the season.


I think with roster changes , some of the offense in Smart will change, he will get opportunities to drive more and look for his own shot and not have to shoot so many [dang] 3's.

But from a talent evaluation standpoint I stand by thinking Elfrid has some skillsets that Marcus doesnt have.

[Forza Juventus]

Trade Marcus Smart for Elfrid Payton? After one year? When Smart is better? How about no.

Trading is about preference.

To me Elfrid is better right now.

Because of is skills. And his potential.

I'm sorry it's just that this is a very long thread. What skills that Elfrid has are better than Smart's in your opinion? And why is his potential better in your opinion?

Penetrating,Driving to the basket, finishing, getting points inside the paint, court vision, handle,  passing, athleticism, natural game manager.

Smart better shooter. Better three point shooter. Better free throw shooter. Better defender.


And everything smart is better is pretty bad on his own......36% shooter, 33% three point shooter, and 65% free throw shooter....so hes really not much better at all....Although both should be better numbers wise next year. Elfrid just could not shoot AT ALL , especially in the beginning of the season.


I think with roster changes , some of the offense in Smart will change, he will get opportunities to drive more and look for his own shot and not have to shoot so many [dang] 3's.

But from a talent evaluation standpoint I stand by thinking Elfrid has some skillsets that Marcus doesnt have.

Very reasonable case. TP.

[GreenWarrior]

I think marcus has shown to be pretty [dang] clutch thus far in his career. that 3 he took and made last night is something he's done before. his offense wasn't there all game and with no hesitation he took that shot as if he had been on fire all night.

I look at this debate as a matter of taste. and the choices are substance or style. smart being the former.

[celtics2030]

I think marcus has shown to be pretty [dang] clutch thus far in his career. that 3 he took and made last night is something he's done before. his offense wasn't there all game and with no hesitation he took that shot as if he had been on fire all night.

I look at this debate as a matter of taste. and the choices are substance or style. smart being the former.

True but I also believe that if Payton was on this team playing point instead of Smart, that Celtics could have been just as good or even better record wise.

But who knows maybe Elfrid would have been told to shoot 3's and it would not have been played out the same.