POLL: If deal goes down, who would you want on this team: Blake or Boogie?

[Future Celtics Owner]

Jahlil Okafor is still the guy I see with the most value based on what it would cost to acquire. We had the 6th worst post scoring in the NBA last season and Okafor is a natural scorer in the post. Many forget he is actually 275ish lbs, 7'6'' wingspan, and 9'3'' standing reach.....thats really big and will help him defend the 5 on the defensive side of the ball. He can also pass and handle the ball real well.

But the way Ainge drafts it may be better to trade the picks now or on draft night. DA is the type of guy who will draft someone 3rd when they could trade down and select the same guy 7th.....that's just not the best way to maximize value/allocate resources.

[Sixth Man]

Proudly reppin' 'neither', brahs (sarcasm), lol .

I'd choose Boogie too -- seems unanimous -- and I know you're joking, but I'm not sure I would jump at any offer for him. Those BKN picks, especially '17, could end up being incredibly valuable IMO. And importantly, our window for contention is probably a few years removed -- harsh reality, but no one is competing with GS (except CLE) in the foreseeable future. So I'm actually coming around to holding onto these picks, drafting a few studs, and building a unit together. Heck, that's exactly what the pre-Durant, championship GSW did!

Agree fully with all this.  2018-19 may be the beginning of a true window of oppoutunity for us, but there is also the clear potential, depending on drafting and player development, to build a juggernaut that can be a dominant team over a long period of time. 

[crimson_stallion]

Jahlil Okafor is still the guy I see with the most value based on what it would cost to acquire. We had the 6th worst post scoring in the NBA last season and Okafor is a natural scorer in the post. Many forget he is actually 275ish lbs, 7'6'' wingspan, and 9'3'' standing reach.....thats really big and will help him defend the 5 on the defensive side of the ball. He can also pass and handle the ball real well.

But the way Ainge drafts it may be better to trade the picks now or on draft night. DA is the type of guy who will draft someone 3rd when they could trade down and select the same guy 7th.....that's just not the best way to maximize value/allocate resources.

Okafor averaged only around 2 PPG more then Avery Bradley did last year, despite Okafor being a #1 option on what was (by far) the worst team in the entire NBA.

No disrespect intended, but you significantly overstate Okafor's scoring ability.  He's no better offensively then Greg Monroe, yet Monroe is a much better passer, rebounder and defender and from what I've seen he is mobile/athletic too.  Milwaukee are reportedly trying to shop Monroe, so you can probably get him for similar price to Okafor - given the choice you'd just take Monroe, who is a more proven commodity and has fewer red flags.  The only thing Okafor offers over Monroe really is age - but I'm not interested in taking a lesser player just because he's 4 years younger.

If you can get a Blake Griffin / Demarcus Cousins caliber scorer, then there is no way you take Okafor.  Okafor doesn't have the upside to ever be as good as those guys are already, and neither Griffin nor Cousins are finished products yet.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Proudly reppin' 'neither', brahs (sarcasm), lol .

I'd choose Boogie too -- seems unanimous -- and I know you're joking, but I'm not sure I would jump at any offer for him. Those BKN picks, especially '17, could end up being incredibly valuable IMO. And importantly, our window for contention is probably a few years removed -- harsh reality, but no one is competing with GS (except CLE) in the foreseeable future. So I'm actually coming around to holding onto these picks, drafting a few studs, and building a unit together. Heck, that's exactly what the pre-Durant, championship GSW did!

I disagree.

If we could get a starting 5 of Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Horford and Cousins - I think that would be a tough lineup for any team (including Golden State) to beat.

I think that lineup is better then Cleveland's, personally. 

Addition of Durant obviously makes the Warriors tougher, but I think that if we add Cousins (even if it takes both Brooklyn picks and filler) then I think we immediately become a top 3 team in the NBA...and we may be able to do it while still maintaining enough cap space for a max free agent next year.

Cousins is only on $16.9M this year, so we could match salary without too much trouble.

Lets say we send Amir Johnson, James Young, Jordan Mickey, RJ Hunter  and both Brooklyn picks - that's $16.2M in contracts going out.

They send us Demarcus Cousins and Caron Butler.

Gives us the following rotation:

PG: I.Thomas / T.Rozier / M.Smart / D.Jackson
SG: A.Bradley / M.Smart / T.Rozier / A.NAder
SF: J.Crowder / J.Brown / C.Butler / M. Smart / J. Jerebko
PF: A.Horford / K. Olynyk / J.Jerebko
C: D.Cousins / K.Olynyk / T.Zeller

I know it's a lot giving up both Brooklyn picks, but this lineup is an instant title contender.  We not only add Horford and Cousins to last year's (already impressive) starting lineup, but we also maintain a lot of the bench depth that allowed us to be so competitive last season.


We also maintain a handful of few prospects with very legit upside (Smart, Rozier, Brown, Yabusele, Zizic) along with plenty of picks still remaining over the next few years.

If things don't work out it's a fairly low risk move - Cousins, Crowder, Bradley, Thomas and Brown are all going to have strong value on the trade market with their low priced contracts.  There will also always be veteran teams with playoff aspirations wiling to give up assets for suitors for a guy like Horford.

Seriously though, I'd be shocked if that team didn't find success.  That roster gives you everything - scoring, defense, rebounding, passing, outside shooting.  Every single guy in that starting five is a three point threat, while positions 2-5 are all plus defenders.  It think it's a team that's much tougher then the sum of it's parts (which is quite substantial as it is).

Good post. I pretty much agree with what you're saying.

I was trying to convey that I wouldn't agree to any and all terms in a trade for one high caliber player right now.  I am under the assumption that Boogie would cost more than that...

I was going to create another thread/topic for it, but I just came across this link re: the state of the Nets: https://theringer.com/the-nets-are-primed-to-unseat-the-sixers-as-the-nbas-worst-team-4f7f36a0cc01#.ptx9zoyib

They're in rough shape. Crabbe and Johnson may not have made a huge difference, but surely they would've helped some now, and with hope, a lot more in the future.

And I think timing seems really important right now. I really can't see anyone other than GS dominating the league in the next few years. I'm sure LBJ will see to it that CLE adds another major pierce at some point. Then they'll both be a problem. Consider even SAS or LAC even, beyond that.

I'm not selling short on our team. I love the surrounding cast we have created. Obviously not even an arm-chair GM, but I would think timing is taken into consideration with these decisions. And the Nets do look pretty awful. And as of now, we very well could land a franchise player with that BKN '17 pick. Then there's '18.

[TheSundanceKid]

Jahlil Okafor is still the guy I see with the most value based on what it would cost to acquire. We had the 6th worst post scoring in the NBA last season and Okafor is a natural scorer in the post. Many forget he is actually 275ish lbs, 7'6'' wingspan, and 9'3'' standing reach.....thats really big and will help him defend the 5 on the defensive side of the ball. He can also pass and handle the ball real well.

But the way Ainge drafts it may be better to trade the picks now or on draft night. DA is the type of guy who will draft someone 3rd when they could trade down and select the same guy 7th.....that's just not the best way to maximize value/allocate resources.

Okafor averaged only around 2 PPG more then Avery Bradley did last year, despite Okafor being a #1 option on what was (by far) the worst team in the entire NBA.

No disrespect intended, but you significantly overstate Okafor's scoring ability.  He's no better offensively then Greg Monroe, yet Monroe is a much better passer, rebounder and defender and from what I've seen he is mobile/athletic too.  Milwaukee are reportedly trying to shop Monroe, so you can probably get him for similar price to Okafor - given the choice you'd just take Monroe, who is a more proven commodity and has fewer red flags.  The only thing Okafor offers over Monroe really is age - but I'm not interested in taking a lesser player just because he's 4 years younger.

If you can get a Blake Griffin / Demarcus Cousins caliber scorer, then there is no way you take Okafor.  Okafor doesn't have the upside to ever be as good as those guys are already, and neither Griffin nor Cousins are finished products yet.

I know you've debated this a lot in the past and I do understand where you are coming from. However you can't deny that the difference in age matters for the average player. No player comes into the league a finished product. No called Kobe an MVP in his rookie season.

Age is a factor to consider because the longevity of the player will differ and the potential for growth will differ too. That's not to say age should override other factors like work ethic or skill but it has to be factored in.

In your example Monroe has had 6 years to develop his game in the NBA, Okafor has had 1. In 5 years do you expect zero improvement in Okafor? I can say quite confidently that Monroe will have reached a plateau by that point and he'll likely be on the down side of his career.

The other thing that to me is really important is the contract. Okafor has 3 years of control on a rookie scale deal which is powerful because it would allow us to keep cap space free to chase a top tier free agent over the next few years. With Monroe, he has 1 more year then a player option at $18m, he'll probably opt out so we either pay him big bucks or lose him for nothing.

[Celtics4ever]

Okafor averaged only around 2 PPG more then Avery Bradley did last year, despite Okafor being a #1 option on what was (by far) the worst team in the entire NBA

He was also a rookie?  How often do guys show their best season as a rookie?

No disrespect intended, but you significantly overstate Okafor's scoring ability.  He's no better offensively then Greg Monroe, yet Monroe is a much better passer, rebounder and defender and from what I've seen he is mobile/athletic too.  Milwaukee are reportedly trying to shop Monroe, so you can probably get him for similar price to Okafor - given the choice you'd just take Monroe, who is a more proven commodity and has fewer red flags.  The only thing Okafor offers over Monroe really is age - but I'm not interested in taking a lesser player just because he's 4 years younger.

If you can get a Blake Griffin / Demarcus Cousins caliber scorer, then there is no way you take Okafor.  Okafor doesn't have the upside to ever be as good as those guys are already, and neither Griffin nor Cousins are finished products yet.

We all know Monroe's ceiling, but do we know Okafor's after a rookie season?   Will he improve?  I think it is likely he improves from his rookie season, most players do.   I am not crazy about the guy, but your arguments do not take this into context.

[budMovin]

Cousins is a much better fit.

[Surferdad]

Jahlil Okafor is still the guy I see with the most value based on what it would cost to acquire. We had the 6th worst post scoring in the NBA last season and Okafor is a natural scorer in the post. Many forget he is actually 275ish lbs, 7'6'' wingspan, and 9'3'' standing reach.....thats really big and will help him defend the 5 on the defensive side of the ball. He can also pass and handle the ball real well.

But the way Ainge drafts it may be better to trade the picks now or on draft night. DA is the type of guy who will draft someone 3rd when they could trade down and select the same guy 7th.....that's just not the best way to maximize value/allocate resources.

Okafor averaged only around 2 PPG more then Avery Bradley did last year, despite Okafor being a #1 option on what was (by far) the worst team in the entire NBA.

No disrespect intended, but you significantly overstate Okafor's scoring ability.  He's no better offensively then Greg Monroe, yet Monroe is a much better passer, rebounder and defender and from what I've seen he is mobile/athletic too.  Milwaukee are reportedly trying to shop Monroe, so you can probably get him for similar price to Okafor - given the choice you'd just take Monroe, who is a more proven commodity and has fewer red flags.  The only thing Okafor offers over Monroe really is age - but I'm not interested in taking a lesser player just because he's 4 years younger.

If you can get a Blake Griffin / Demarcus Cousins caliber scorer, then there is no way you take Okafor.  Okafor doesn't have the upside to ever be as good as those guys are already, and neither Griffin nor Cousins are finished products yet.

I know you've debated this a lot in the past and I do understand where you are coming from. However you can't deny that the difference in age matters for the average player. No player comes into the league a finished product. No called Kobe an MVP in his rookie season.

Age is a factor to consider because the longevity of the player will differ and the potential for growth will differ too. That's not to say age should override other factors like work ethic or skill but it has to be factored in.

In your example Monroe has had 6 years to develop his game in the NBA, Okafor has had 1. In 5 years do you expect zero improvement in Okafor? I can say quite confidently that Monroe will have reached a plateau by that point and he'll likely be on the down side of his career.

The other thing that to me is really important is the contract. Okafor has 3 years of control on a rookie scale deal which is powerful because it would allow us to keep cap space free to chase a top tier free agent over the next few years. With Monroe, he has 1 more year then a player option at $18m, he'll probably opt out so we either pay him big bucks or lose him for nothing.

TP for all points.  I couldn't have said it better myself.   

[ashanm10]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

but wasnt Jae with us at the Durant and Horford meetings? :S

[Surferdad]

A confirmed rumor...that's a contradiction in terms.

[Fafnir]

Rumors confirmed, by whom?

[Fafnir]

A confirmed rumor...that's a contradiction in terms.

I mean it happens when you have solid reporting that makes it no longer a rumor, but that's not the case here unless I'm missing the follow up.

[ashanm10]

but generally we been hearing this for days now...

[Fafnir]

but generally we been hearing this for days now...

Right we've been hearing the C's are talking to teams about acquiring a big player.

But the specifics of a 3 team deal in place is a whole different thing. Usually these three way trades work out that 2 teams want to do them and the third is often confused as to why no one is listening to them when they say "nah".

[Evantime34]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

but wasnt Jae with us at the Durant and Horford meetings? :S

For the sake of argument let's say this is true, I wonder who would play the 3 for us if we dealt crowder. Brown can't be our starter imo.

I think Doc would want Avery too in that deal. Bradley crowder and the 2018 nets pick is a lot to give up but I think Blake is worth it.